I personally like having proactive options currently. The Jund Aggro Loam build is pretty solid right now. It functions a lot like the GBx decks in that it has a lot of versatility and powerful cards but has access to the Assault Loam engine for late game reach and grind. However, if the meta starts moving back towards being more combo centered, then a more interactive but reactive build like my RUG Loam list might prove to be better. Gifts decks have always felt too slow and too easily disrupted for my personal tastes. By necessity, they play very few copies of cards to get as much utility out of Gifts as possible and it feels very inconsistent without Gifts and slow with Gifts. Keeping the curve low and running Bob seems like a better source of advantage and consistency to me.
In response to Darkbrew's comment saying "I think people using delver are insane. should just be focusing on slowing your opponent down"
I really like Delver of Secrets in general so my opinion might be skewed. Also, the decision to play a Delver version is clearly a play style decision.
Delver is a key player in my strategy. Delver allows me to pressure my opponent starting on turn 1. It is a card that most decks will have to deal with very quickly or risk dying on turn 3/4. Therefore, being the aggressor and playing delver WILL slow down most opponents. If our opponent has to spend a turn playing Abrupt Decay on our Delver, that is a turn where they will not be playing a Scavenging Ooze or Tarmogoyf. This allows us to curve straight in to our Seismic Assault with a favorable board position (or just flat out kill the opponent if they can't deal with the delver).
Delver serves another important role in my strategy. Delver is a plan B. If you play a strategy that focuses on the Life from the Loam engine, you leave yourself vulnerable to graveyard hate. Having Delver allows me to win even if my opponent has a Rest in Peace on the table. The opponent can only hate out half my strategy most of the time. They either focus on stopping my Loam engine or stopping my aggro. If they spend a turn playing Rest in Peace against me, they can still lose to a Delver equipped with a sword.
anyone thought about using monastery swiftspear? i think it may be better than gobling guide in this deck with all the retracing and loaming... i'm going to shift to a more aggro approach with those and young pyro. I think it is doable in straight g/r, maybe with blue for delver?
Rug could be a good option if you want the early aggro then assault for some late game reach. it wouldn't be bad to be able to run serum visions to ensure a flipped Delver and just straight up being b cheap cantrip to feed pyromancer and swiftspear.
Wrong place to discuss this. Aggro loam specifically plays seismic assault and red in general. Perhaps in a gifts forum is where you would want to chat ideas about that? I don't mind, but I believe forum rules suggest that chitchat not involving a specific deck within it's respectable forum is spam. Not my rules, but forum rules.
Played Jund Loam this evening with a fancy set of Bloodstained Mires. I went 2-2, beating BW lifegain home brew and 8Rack while losing to 8Rack and Zoo. Largely chalked up the losses to it having been awhile since playing with the deck. Having the Mires was immensely helpful. The list I played was:
I took out Helix and a Flame Jab in almost every match I played for Decay and Pulse. So I'm just going to make that switch. I also want to get the 4th Assault back in the deck but I haven't figured out how I'm going to go about doing that. Though I never really had a problem having it stick around when I needed it. The main board felt really strong though. It was just the sideboard and fighting through hate that really got me. Also, finding out that my friend has been borrowing 4 of my Obstinate Baloths was a little disheartening as I played against 8Rack twice and having the 2-3 in the board that I wanted would have been rather helpful. I'm not sold on Scooze in the deck just because of the red requirements. Finks may be better in that slot but I'm not terribly sure on that. Regardless, the SB needs a fair amount of help and was just thrown together with stuff I had lying around. Any suggestions would be more than welcome. Also, the mana base needs a third Graven Cairns to help cast Assault more reliably. I had a game against Zoo where I lost to not being able to cast Assault.
Anyways, I had a ton of fun running this again. Grindy Mid-Range shenanigans are always enjoyable for me.
You didn't really need to explain why smallpox is good with your build... or bloodghast for that matter. All it did was make your list terrible to look at. lol
List does seem solid though. How does your burn match up feel?
Bow of nylea may not be a bad singleton since ghast will always attack.
Fixed the list formatting. The ghasts really help with racing burn, but game 1 is winnable but not favorable at all, post board it gets a good amount better though.
Definitely makes sense. Like I suggested, have you considered a bow of nylea in the main/side. I liked it with tokens to push damage through. I can only picture how nice it would be with a creature like ghast who won't be on blocking duty and is either getting the 2 damage through or taking most any creature with it, before it recurs naturally. Bow also gives you additional life gain vs burn. Although I see you have the claws for that.
Hey all, I have been working on a Jund assault loam list. Looking for any feedback you might have, especially with the mana base. I want to try a Countryside Crusher variant.
I would probably drop witness for another decay in the main deck. Two mountains is probably unnecessary I would go with a second swamp. Switch foothills to catacombs so all your fetches can grab swamp if you are in a heavy blood moon meta.
I would probably drop witness for another decay in the main deck. Two mountains is probably unnecessary I would go with a second swamp. Switch foothills to catacombs so all your fetches can grab swamp if you are in a heavy blood moon meta.
I figured Red was the most important colour with Seismics and Crushers. I guess black for the discard and Lilianas?
I used to play with 4 when I ran the creatureless version, which really wants to hit double B for liliana or multiple crime casts, or it wanted to hit triple RRR for assault or double R for multiple flame jab casts. I tend to run 3 in the pyromancer build that I began running. I currently only have 2 though. Cairns as a 2 of seems fine, but I think I miss the 3rd cairns. I am not sure is fire-lit is really worth it for you. I am wondering if you should try the 3rd cairns in place of thicket, if you have access to it.
The only reason you'd really need Fire-lit Thicket is if you're running Scavenging Ooze so you can get multiple activations out of him. Otherwise, it's unneeded. I tried playing Jund Loam recently with 2 Cairns and I was constantly wanting to see them. 3-4 is where you want to be on that.
I'd definitely play 4 in the Creatureless Jund lists. For the standard Jund, 3 is probably good enough. You want to hit green more often thanks to Goyf and you aren't wanting to go deep on Crime's or turn 2 Smallpox. Cairns becomes less relevant and more of a hindrance after 3 copies in that build I think. But that's just my preference.
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Modern:
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I really like Delver of Secrets in general so my opinion might be skewed. Also, the decision to play a Delver version is clearly a play style decision.
Delver is a key player in my strategy. Delver allows me to pressure my opponent starting on turn 1. It is a card that most decks will have to deal with very quickly or risk dying on turn 3/4. Therefore, being the aggressor and playing delver WILL slow down most opponents. If our opponent has to spend a turn playing Abrupt Decay on our Delver, that is a turn where they will not be playing a Scavenging Ooze or Tarmogoyf. This allows us to curve straight in to our Seismic Assault with a favorable board position (or just flat out kill the opponent if they can't deal with the delver).
Delver serves another important role in my strategy. Delver is a plan B. If you play a strategy that focuses on the Life from the Loam engine, you leave yourself vulnerable to graveyard hate. Having Delver allows me to win even if my opponent has a Rest in Peace on the table. The opponent can only hate out half my strategy most of the time. They either focus on stopping my Loam engine or stopping my aggro. If they spend a turn playing Rest in Peace against me, they can still lose to a Delver equipped with a sword.
With all of that said... I agree... I am insane.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells: 27
4 Faithless Looting
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Seismic Assault
1 Spellweaver Helix
Lands: 25
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Graven Cairns
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Raging Ravine
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Spellskite
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Slaughter Games
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
I took out Helix and a Flame Jab in almost every match I played for Decay and Pulse. So I'm just going to make that switch. I also want to get the 4th Assault back in the deck but I haven't figured out how I'm going to go about doing that. Though I never really had a problem having it stick around when I needed it. The main board felt really strong though. It was just the sideboard and fighting through hate that really got me. Also, finding out that my friend has been borrowing 4 of my Obstinate Baloths was a little disheartening as I played against 8Rack twice and having the 2-3 in the board that I wanted would have been rather helpful. I'm not sold on Scooze in the deck just because of the red requirements. Finks may be better in that slot but I'm not terribly sure on that. Regardless, the SB needs a fair amount of help and was just thrown together with stuff I had lying around. Any suggestions would be more than welcome. Also, the mana base needs a third Graven Cairns to help cast Assault more reliably. I had a game against Zoo where I lost to not being able to cast Assault.
Anyways, I had a ton of fun running this again. Grindy Mid-Range shenanigans are always enjoyable for me.
2x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Copperline Gorge
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Graven Cairns
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
1x Mountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Faithless Looting
1x Flame Jab
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Life from the Loam
1x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Raven's Crime
4x Smallpox
Instant (4)
4x Abrupt Decay
Planeswalker (3)
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
Enchantment (3)
3x Seismic Assault
Creature (4)
4x Bloodghast
4x Ancient Grudge
4x Dragon's Claw
1x Flame Jab
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Pyroclasm
What I have been playtesting to pretty good results.
List does seem solid though. How does your burn match up feel?
Bow of nylea may not be a bad singleton since ghast will always attack.
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Countryside Crusher
1x Eternal Witness
1x Pack Rat
Spells (22)
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Raven's Crime
2x Flame Jab
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Life From the Loam
3x Seismic Assault
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Fire-Lit thicket
1x Forest
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Graven Cairns
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
2x Mountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Raging Ravine
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Wooded Foothills
I figured Red was the most important colour with Seismics and Crushers. I guess black for the discard and Lilianas?