You seem to be running 3 of's everything, instead of 4 of's of the most important things, why is that? Does the consistency of the deck start to go down because of it? I'd assume that with only 3 Faithless Lootings you wouldn't be hitting one on turn 1 as often, and with no Blackcleave Cliffs your manabase will be a bit more painful than it should be.
Other than that I'd suggest going down to 1 Flame Jab in the main, and moving in the Darkblasts. This would free up some sideboard slots for anger if you really need it. Also move a Scavenging Ooze to the main for a Pack Rat because they are both late game mana sinks, but the Ooze can blow put games right away while the rat takes time to set up. I also noticed that you have no manlands, how has that been working?
I have been moving away from 4 lootings recently, I think that turn 1 your best play is discard 90% of the time, I prefer the extra thoughtseize/IoK to the 4th looting.
On Pack Rat, I think that Pack rat has become quite good against all the BGx decks that are becoming popular again. Their only out is maelstrom pulse and we can usually make pack rat lethal quickly. So long as we hold up the mana to make another pack rat is basically unkillable against most decks, the only wrath that really hurts ATM is anger of the gods and we're really good against most decks that play anger of the gods. I deffinetly support some number (one or two) of maindeck packrat in straight jund builds.
I run ghost quarter so that usually deep the trick against inkmoth nexus. Then 1 or 2 flame jabs kill every creature, abrupt decay and assault handle ravager. Did I miss anything? Decay hits plating which is useless without creatures and doesn't pump toughness so handling creatures still doesn't seem an issue. I guess I'm just very familiar with the match up. I don't usually feel the need to board at all. I usually bring in engineered explosives and the 1 of grudge in my side board just to be safe.
I run two Grudges SB just because it ends up being better than cards like Young Pyromancer/Goblin Guide in that match up. I have plenty of other incidental hate that I can bring against them depending on the build. Though I do agree that we don't have too much issue with Affinity.
It seems like this comes up from time to time so I'll just reiterate that Seismic Assault should be a 4-of in this deck. It is literally the most broken thing you can be doing and want to see it as soon as possible every game. Yes it is a card that you only want one of in play but it is a ridiculously strong card and will be removed as soon as the opponent is capable of doing so. Having a back up one to play gives you more outs in any given game. It is the reason this deck exists at all. Otherwise you are just moving towards an inferior Jund deck.
I run two Grudges SB just because it ends up being better than cards like Young Pyromancer/Goblin Guide in that match up. I have plenty of other incidental hate that I can bring against them depending on the build. Though I do agree that we don't have too much issue with Affinity.
It seems like this comes up from time to time so I'll just reiterate that Seismic Assault should be a 4-of in this deck. It is literally the most broken thing you can be doing and want to see it as soon as possible every game. Yes it is a card that you only want one of in play but it is a ridiculously strong card and will be removed as soon as the opponent is capable of doing so. Having a back up one to play gives you more outs in any given game. It is the reason this deck exists at all. Otherwise you are just moving towards an inferior Jund deck.
I look at it as being the Kiki-Jiki of our deck. You only ever need one in play, redundant copies are useless unless faced with removal, and we can win without it, but it's still an integral card.
The problem I see with that comparison is that resolving an Assault doesn't instantly win you the game like Kiki does. It usually takes two or three turns to close out a game after an Assault hits. Which is a fair amount of time for an opponent to draw an out to your engine. Technically yes, you can win without it, but when the deck is built to function optimally with it, having it at the ready is ideal. You also have ways of filtering it out of your hand if it is a redundant copy in the face of no removal. I can't imagine added consistency in your primary wincon is worse than a random 1 of something else.
EDIT: I'm being very finicky about a decklist to play this Wednesday. I'm giving Trade Routes another attempt and cutting Goblin Guides, since they haven't been performing as well as I'd have liked (the Tier 1 decks have disappeared for a few weeks now). So I'm testing 2 Trade Routes and want to get 3 Young Pyromancers back in but I'm pulling 5 cards out (4x GG, 1x Jace Beleren) for 6 cards to come in (3x Young Pyromancer, 2x Trade Routes, 1x Faithless Looting). I'm thinking of shaving off an Izzet Charm or swapping a Snapcaster Mage for the last Pyromancer. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Here's what I'm looking at right now:
Have you ever found yourself to need 25 land? 24 may be possible since ghost quarter acts more like a spell. You can probably drop 1 main board and get the 3rd young pyromancer in there. I personally like him best with retrace spells though. If you are going to run him I wonder if you can make room for flame jab or oona's grace over trade routes.
I played around with land counts a long time ago. 23-27 lands and 25 always gave me the best consistency for making sure I hit the 3-4 land drops that I needed. I agree Pyromancer is better with Retrace and I tried out Oona's Grace but the converted mana cost on it was too restrictive. Flame Jab should probably be in there but I want to test with Trade Routes. Cutting it now defeats the purpose of testing it. Flame Jab is something I've been considering putting back in but it would have to be as a 2-of max and would probably go in the Trade Routes spot. I'll give 24 lands a go and see how that goes.
Yeah I agree about Grace. It's pretty mana intensive which is why I was unsure of whether or not to bother mentioning it. Trade routes seems like it could be b fine addition to the deck. Definitely could draw you into more spells to feed into pyromancer. Just not sure if you're discarding all your land to draw cards really allows you to cast more than just a loam and maybe a bolt a turn. Basically you're not getting the value from pyromancer that you could be. You're probably best off with something aggressive like guide, as you've been running your list. I also feel as though with routes you probably want more land because you will want to be playing and ditching lands. With routes online you could possibly cut back on assaults since you have a reasonable instant speed draw engine to draw into it. Not sure if there insights help but they seem correct.
Yeah, my problem with Guide right now is that people at my store play a bunch of midrange creature decks. So Guide only really gets in for 2 damage. Young Pyromancer works better in that situation. I'm not looking at him as a wincon, but just another value engine. I'll give it a go with 24 lands and see how it works out. I want Trade Routes to give me a way to have Loam dredge itself in a way, and let me get a normal draw for the turn. So I'm not stuck completely on Loam after I get an Assault out.
Assault Loam on camera at GP Boston-Worcester at 9-1. Exciting!
can't find a list on the internet - any ideas?
I couldn't find anything either. I looked for his list, but ended up just guessing at the general idea since all I could find was the gameplay and what the casters were saying he had. I could make up a mock-list if you want, but it wont be his list exactly, unless I'm really lucky.
hi guys. i recently got switched onto this deck by a friend. i used to play the old land's edge and land tax deck back in the "old days".
this seems eminently better.
one card i think the deck probably needs though - dark confidant. it just seems too good to pass up. filtering into all your cheap spells and lands, it's perfect. delver of secrets also seems like a great fit for a deck this aggressive. young pyromancer i really like the look of snapcaster mage seems like he should probably be bumped down to a 2-of at most. i think you just want to burn your opponents out.
i plan on making a build of this over the next few days. i may end up splashing green for goyf, although i'm not entirely sure it's the best idea. i'll have to see how it plans out.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
The problem I see with that comparison is that resolving an Assault doesn't instantly win you the game like Kiki does. It usually takes two or three turns to close out a game after an Assault hits. Which is a fair amount of time for an opponent to draw an out to your engine. Technically yes, you can win without it, but when the deck is built to function optimally with it, having it at the ready is ideal. You also have ways of filtering it out of your hand if it is a redundant copy in the face of no removal. I can't imagine added consistency in your primary wincon is worse than a random 1 of something else.
EDIT: I'm being very finicky about a decklist to play this Wednesday. I'm giving Trade Routes another attempt and cutting Goblin Guides, since they haven't been performing as well as I'd have liked (the Tier 1 decks have disappeared for a few weeks now). So I'm testing 2 Trade Routes and want to get 3 Young Pyromancers back in but I'm pulling 5 cards out (4x GG, 1x Jace Beleren) for 6 cards to come in (3x Young Pyromancer, 2x Trade Routes, 1x Faithless Looting). I'm thinking of shaving off an Izzet Charm or swapping a Snapcaster Mage for the last Pyromancer. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Here's what I'm looking at right now:
Did you ever have Delvers in the place of the Goyfs? With 26 cards to flip it a blind flip seems like it could be common. Another thing I though of was since you are playing Deprive, could you swap it out for Familiar's Ruse and put in some number of Eternal Witness? This would give you another softlock for spells, while you burn out their creatures and life.It wouldn't even get in the way of Loaming, but you might need more lands in play than you would like to pull it off. Maybe worth considering.
What was the final consensus on the borborygmos loam reanimator deck?
I think that it got shut down during the reign of Deathrite Shaman, and that it was never as consistent. Might be better off playing 4C Gifts for the combo.
I know your eternal ruse combo suggestion was directed to Nick but I would like to point out that the deck which runs it gets it's strength from running vial in order to get maximum value and create an actual softlock without having to invest more than 4 mana a turn.
I found I didn't like Trade Routes again. The two mana investment to get it rolling was troublesome the three games I saw it. It got stuck in my hand more than anything. Games where I hit Loam, I was either already ahead or Trade Routes wasn't going to pull me into anything to save me. Though there was a game where I milled it and buffed my Goyf up to a 5/6 and basically won me the game. Though that seems like a bad reason to keep it. Young Pyromancer's best performance was making 2 elementals and getting in for 8 damage before I lost to Deathcloud. So I think I'm going to go back up to 25 lands. There were a ton of Gavony Townships and Inkmoth Nexus running around. Having the extra Ghost Quarter would be nice.
As far as Delver, I don't have a way to not hope to blindflip him. So even at 26 potential triggers, I don't like those odds. Though I was thinking about dropping the Trade Routes and Young Pyromancers for 4 Serum Visions to help try and up consistency. That wouldn't leave any room for Delver though and I still don't think that would really make playing him any more viable anyways.
If I remember correctly the Borborygmos Reanimator strategy was too susceptible to graveyard hate and the back up plan wasn't strong enough to finish games because you had too many dead draws without the graveyard. It had a good surprise factor but was easily hated out and wouldn't work against people who knew what was going on.
I know your eternal ruse combo suggestion was directed to Nick but I would like to point out that the deck which runs it gets it's strength from running vial in order to get maximum value and create an actual softlock without having to invest more than 4 mana a turn.
Ah, forgot about that. I only remembered the two cards but haven't looked at the actual deck in a while. Thanks for pointing it out though.
@Nick: Have you considered playing Electrolyze? The cantrip and options it gives seem to be a good fit for your RUG version. If anything else it helps the Loam burn plan.
It's not like it's a bad idea either though. Use witness to return ruse then if you mill an assault you can get it back by casting ruse again. It's just somewhat mana intensive without vial.
Electrolyze did get some discussion if I remember correctly. I forget what his list looks like but as I recall it wasn't quite good enough at 3 mana to include. Dropping an assault turn 3 is most likely better.
Was an opposing inkmoth that tough to deal with when you last played? I usually just put 1 quarter main board with 2 in the side. That way in faster match ups I can hit my colored sources no problem and In longer matches I can take the time with extra quarter to whittle my opponents land count down to nothing
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MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I have been moving away from 4 lootings recently, I think that turn 1 your best play is discard 90% of the time, I prefer the extra thoughtseize/IoK to the 4th looting.
On Pack Rat, I think that Pack rat has become quite good against all the BGx decks that are becoming popular again. Their only out is maelstrom pulse and we can usually make pack rat lethal quickly. So long as we hold up the mana to make another pack rat is basically unkillable against most decks, the only wrath that really hurts ATM is anger of the gods and we're really good against most decks that play anger of the gods. I deffinetly support some number (one or two) of maindeck packrat in straight jund builds.
It seems like this comes up from time to time so I'll just reiterate that Seismic Assault should be a 4-of in this deck. It is literally the most broken thing you can be doing and want to see it as soon as possible every game. Yes it is a card that you only want one of in play but it is a ridiculously strong card and will be removed as soon as the opponent is capable of doing so. Having a back up one to play gives you more outs in any given game. It is the reason this deck exists at all. Otherwise you are just moving towards an inferior Jund deck.
I look at it as being the Kiki-Jiki of our deck. You only ever need one in play, redundant copies are useless unless faced with removal, and we can win without it, but it's still an integral card.
EDIT: I'm being very finicky about a decklist to play this Wednesday. I'm giving Trade Routes another attempt and cutting Goblin Guides, since they haven't been performing as well as I'd have liked (the Tier 1 decks have disappeared for a few weeks now). So I'm testing 2 Trade Routes and want to get 3 Young Pyromancers back in but I'm pulling 5 cards out (4x GG, 1x Jace Beleren) for 6 cards to come in (3x Young Pyromancer, 2x Trade Routes, 1x Faithless Looting). I'm thinking of shaving off an Izzet Charm or swapping a Snapcaster Mage for the last Pyromancer. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Here's what I'm looking at right now:
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Young Pyromancer
Spells: 26
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
2 Spell Pierce
3 Deprive
3 Izzet Charm
4 Life from the Loam
2 Trade Routes
4 Seismic Assault
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Raging Ravine
2 Cascade Bluffs
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Bow of Nylea
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Nature's Claim
1 Deprive
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Spellskite
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Dismember
I couldn't find anything either. I looked for his list, but ended up just guessing at the general idea since all I could find was the gameplay and what the casters were saying he had. I could make up a mock-list if you want, but it wont be his list exactly, unless I'm really lucky.
Current Modern:
BRGAssault LoamBRG
WUKrark Eggs(Balls of Steel)WU
Current EDH:
GSeshiro SnakesG//GEzuri ElvesG
WUBRGHorde of PlaneswalkersWUBRG
UBRNekusar the MindwheelerUBR
WUGRoon FlickerWUG
this seems eminently better.
one card i think the deck probably needs though - dark confidant. it just seems too good to pass up. filtering into all your cheap spells and lands, it's perfect.
delver of secrets also seems like a great fit for a deck this aggressive.
young pyromancer i really like the look of
snapcaster mage seems like he should probably be bumped down to a 2-of at most. i think you just want to burn your opponents out.
i plan on making a build of this over the next few days. i may end up splashing green for goyf, although i'm not entirely sure it's the best idea. i'll have to see how it plans out.
N/A
Modern
Dredge vine
4 color gifts
Junk midrange
Daga control
Rb burn
Soul sisters
Legacy
The gate
Zombie bombardment
Burn
I think that it got shut down during the reign of Deathrite Shaman, and that it was never as consistent. Might be better off playing 4C Gifts for the combo.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
As far as Delver, I don't have a way to not hope to blindflip him. So even at 26 potential triggers, I don't like those odds. Though I was thinking about dropping the Trade Routes and Young Pyromancers for 4 Serum Visions to help try and up consistency. That wouldn't leave any room for Delver though and I still don't think that would really make playing him any more viable anyways.
If I remember correctly the Borborygmos Reanimator strategy was too susceptible to graveyard hate and the back up plan wasn't strong enough to finish games because you had too many dead draws without the graveyard. It had a good surprise factor but was easily hated out and wouldn't work against people who knew what was going on.
@Nick: Have you considered playing Electrolyze? The cantrip and options it gives seem to be a good fit for your RUG version. If anything else it helps the Loam burn plan.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Electrolyze did get some discussion if I remember correctly. I forget what his list looks like but as I recall it wasn't quite good enough at 3 mana to include. Dropping an assault turn 3 is most likely better.
Was an opposing inkmoth that tough to deal with when you last played? I usually just put 1 quarter main board with 2 in the side. That way in faster match ups I can hit my colored sources no problem and In longer matches I can take the time with extra quarter to whittle my opponents land count down to nothing