So any thoughts on Restock as it's now Modern legal?
Also how bad would a deck of Walls be? If you hid behind them and then won with an Assualt? Wall of Mulch was spoiled so it could totally be a thing... right?
Restock is too expensive for this deck and Walls would probably be bad.
I guess against creature decks they would be ok, but then again, we're already good against creature decks. If restock didn't cost that much to cast I think it would be better. Probably better off with noxious revival or witness.
Restock is too expensive for this deck and Walls would probably be bad.
Yes but think of it as a defensive cantriping Goyf!
Seriously though, I'm just trying to get some innovation going because all I can see right now for the deck to be good is a big meta shift. If is ok at different LGS's, but as soon as people catch on and start to pack the graveyard hate you really have no choice but to lay off the deck for a while.
I think wall is a neat add but I just don't find it necessary since it's there to blank aggro that we're inherently strong against. It isn't particularly a bad idea overall
I've been looking for a great non-combo (nonbo?) deck since Tokens became irrelevant back during the Winter. I just took 2nd at a PTQ with Ad Nauseam, so I need another deck to fall back on with all the hate I assume people will now pack. I figured with Deathrite Shaman banned, and graveyard-hate in general being at an all-time low, I figured it's time to revisit Assault Loam!
I liked the look of the creatureless Jund versions, and the list posted above with a soft white splash for Lingering Souls looks beautiful. Besides DRS and grave-hate, a lot of the problems I had encountering a year ago was just drawing too many kill-spells and not advancing the board state. Young Pyromancer adds so much value to this deck, especially with the Retrace cards. I was also considering trying Chandra, Pyromaster as card-advantage, but I figured I would try another idea: Pack Rat.
It seems mana-intensive, but against grindy and attrition-based match-ups, between Rat and Loam I figured it could pretty back-breaking for our opponents.
It would appear that you highly appreciate value since both of your creatures can take full advantage of your Loam card advantage engine. Seems pretty nice. Tested much? How does it seem to you?
The only thing that pops out at me is the two Thoughtseizes. Life is really important in this deck I find and Inquisition of Kozilek hits 80% of the same cards.
I also think Pack Rat was discussed a bunch of pages back if you want to go find it.
Okay so... I've been testing with a build I expected to be downright awful, but it's been shockingly good for me, beating a number of fair decks much faster and more efficiently than I could with my Pox build. Behold, Devotion to Tibalt:
In testing, Tibalt has easily (and shockingly) been the all-star. Getting an extra Loam activation every turn, giving you Nykthos ramp for explosive starts, and just digging deeper into your deck rapidly decreases the time it takes to get an engine online. I haven't had too much trouble finding stuff to cast with BTE, and getting nasty amounts of mana off of Nykthos lets you play mana sinks that more fair versions don't allow you to (Creeping Renaissance and Devil's Play have pulled their weight as one-ofs).
I can definitely see the merit in pack rat, i'm in favor of more win cons that dodge common hate (aside from pithing needle, but few people run it and it can be easily removed). I currently also play a black white midrangey deck and pack rat has been great, especially with aether vial.
I did try 2 pack rat in my sideboard some time ago but never drew it and ended up cutting it in favor of my current creature package. I just really like siding in huntmaster of the fells and do so whenever i can, but i suppose rats are good as well. I'd very much like to know how it performs for you. For my part i keep my additional creatures in the board, hoping my opponent sides out some removal.
The main concern i have is that it seems to interact poorly with smallpox. I guess rat is more for the late game, like when you have 5 lands and can cast it and activate it immediately?
I recently moved an hour away from my hometown and my Team-mates, so I haven't gotten a lot of testing in yet. But there is a Modern scene where I am now, so I am going to attend starting next week. Until then, I've only tested a few games.
Sleeved this up against my friend, who was rocking 4C-Gifts. Seems like an awful match-up, but thankfully this deck isn't very common in general. I went 0-3 (no sideboard testing). Young Pyromancer was a pretty bad card against a deck full of cards like Abrupt Decay, Path to Exile, Damnation, etc. There was only one instance where I could fire off some value and gets 1/1 beats in before Elesh Norn hit. Pack Rat seems pretty good here, but only when you have 5 mana (always keep mana open in response to their kill spells). I was pretty happy with that, but Pack Rat is definitely a late-game card. You pretty much always want to play it when you've depleted most their resources it, whether it be their hand, creatures, or lands from Ghost Quarter-Life from the Loam. I still think Pack Rat is a good finisher though, as it in the late game it doesn't simply fold to a single Bolt, Abrupt Decay, and Path.
That match-up in general was pretty bad, but there's a handful of reasons why. Not too concerned about it. I'll have more results to post in the incoming week or two as I start attending Modern weeklies here.
I goldfished a bunch of hands for a few hours, and it seemed solid overall. I figured since Modern is a turn-4 format, I drew my openers and followed up on what my next 3-4 turns would usually consist of. Is it always correct to fetch for a Red-shock (Stomping Ground/Blood Crypt). I figured I always go for red mana early in the game if I can because of Seismic Assault's backbreaking cost.
It really depends on your opening hand and how you see the next few turns playing out. Generally, yes, you'll want to grab R/x Shocklands but not always. Playing Assault a few turns later is fine if you are playing the control option as opposed to playing the aggro route where getting a turn 3 Assault is important.
If you're not liking Young Pyromancer, try out Goblin Guide. It usually gets in for 4-6 damage and gives you info about your opponent's hand. The extra damage is usually pretty important when it comes to closing out games. So you only need two copies of Loam to resolve in order to win instead of 3+.
Okay so... I've been testing with a build I expected to be downright awful, but it's been shockingly good for me, beating a number of fair decks much faster and more efficiently than I could with my Pox build. Behold, Devotion to Tibalt:
In testing, Tibalt has easily (and shockingly) been the all-star. Getting an extra Loam activation every turn, giving you Nykthos ramp for explosive starts, and just digging deeper into your deck rapidly decreases the time it takes to get an engine online. I haven't had too much trouble finding stuff to cast with BTE, and getting nasty amounts of mana off of Nykthos lets you play mana sinks that more fair versions don't allow you to (Creeping Renaissance and Devil's Play have pulled their weight as one-ofs).
I tried throwing in Tibalt to the Jund Loam deck and he worked ok. I think when playing things like Liliana and Young Pyromancer he will fall short because you can't get those back from the yard. But a deck that has 90% of it's cards able to come back from the graveyard could potentially make him viable. I like the idea, so do you have anything else to add to it?
I used tibalt in a jund loam pox in legacy. He was... neat. The card advantage is definitely nothing to scoff at since he is a free draw every turn. I think I like it better there when I was assembling the depths-stage combo and could recur most everything in my deck more so than I like it here. I do really love seeing some tibalt play. He was definitely nuts in that deck.
I tried to have as many cards that could be used from the graveyard as possible. The Lilys and Young Pyromancers felt a bit out of place. It had to be one or the other, but nor both. I was also using IoK in the main to help dampen some of the life loss that this deck has a problem with. I was running 3 but went down to 6 discard spells. I would also like a 4th Abrupt Decay but it doesn't work from the grave which is not that good.
Have youfound ancient grudge to be necessary? It seems like for the most part you have most everything else covered. I know you had trouble with pod but if they don't have creatures then pod probably isn't so much an issue. Not really sure if you ever brought them in or if they're necessary. I've personally never had a problem with affinity and I can't picture if they are really necessary in any other match up.
A lot of the sideboards rock Grafdigger's Cage for Pod, but it also hits us pretty hard with our Retrace cards, so I assume it's brought in for that as well.
I've found r/g in particular to be a somewhat difficult matchup because of main deck relic of progenitus. If we draw ghost quarter + loam before they have relic we win, if they have multiple relic it is hard for us. Grudge hits those pesky relics as well.
EDIT: Also they have firespout/cyclonic rift for our token backup plan so we need good sideboard options vs that deck
You seem to be running 3 of's everything, instead of 4 of's of the most important things, why is that? Does the consistency of the deck start to go down because of it? I'd assume that with only 3 Faithless Lootings you wouldn't be hitting one on turn 1 as often, and with no Blackcleave Cliffs your manabase will be a bit more painful than it should be.
Other than that I'd suggest going down to 1 Flame Jab in the main, and moving in the Darkblasts. This would free up some sideboard slots for anger if you really need it. Also move a Scavenging Ooze to the main for a Pack Rat because they are both late game mana sinks, but the Ooze can blow put games right away while the rat takes time to set up. I also noticed that you have no manlands, how has that been working?
Restock is too expensive for this deck and Walls would probably be bad.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Seriously though, I'm just trying to get some innovation going because all I can see right now for the deck to be good is a big meta shift. If is ok at different LGS's, but as soon as people catch on and start to pack the graveyard hate you really have no choice but to lay off the deck for a while.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I liked the look of the creatureless Jund versions, and the list posted above with a soft white splash for Lingering Souls looks beautiful. Besides DRS and grave-hate, a lot of the problems I had encountering a year ago was just drawing too many kill-spells and not advancing the board state. Young Pyromancer adds so much value to this deck, especially with the Retrace cards. I was also considering trying Chandra, Pyromaster as card-advantage, but I figured I would try another idea: Pack Rat.
It seems mana-intensive, but against grindy and attrition-based match-ups, between Rat and Loam I figured it could pretty back-breaking for our opponents.
2 Pack Rat
4 Life from the Loam
4 Seismic Assault
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Raven's Crime
2 Thoughtseize
1 Flame Jab
4 Lingering Souls
4 Faithless Looting
3 Smallpox
3 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Copperline Gorge
2 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Raging Ravine
2 Ghost Quarter
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
I also think Pack Rat was discussed a bunch of pages back if you want to go find it.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Sakura-Tribe Elder
3x Boros Reckoner
2x Primeval Titan
Instants/Sorceries (12)
4x Faithless Looting
2x Flame Jab
4x Life From the Loam
1x Devil's Play
1x Creeping Renaissance
2x Seal of Fire
3x Seismic Assault
1x Aggressive Mining
Planeswalker (4)
4x Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded
Land (26)
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Fire-Lit Thicket
4x Stomping Ground
4x Arid Mesa
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Kessig Wolf Run
3x Mountain
2x Forest
In testing, Tibalt has easily (and shockingly) been the all-star. Getting an extra Loam activation every turn, giving you Nykthos ramp for explosive starts, and just digging deeper into your deck rapidly decreases the time it takes to get an engine online. I haven't had too much trouble finding stuff to cast with BTE, and getting nasty amounts of mana off of Nykthos lets you play mana sinks that more fair versions don't allow you to (Creeping Renaissance and Devil's Play have pulled their weight as one-ofs).
Cubetutor Link
I did try 2 pack rat in my sideboard some time ago but never drew it and ended up cutting it in favor of my current creature package. I just really like siding in huntmaster of the fells and do so whenever i can, but i suppose rats are good as well. I'd very much like to know how it performs for you. For my part i keep my additional creatures in the board, hoping my opponent sides out some removal.
The main concern i have is that it seems to interact poorly with smallpox. I guess rat is more for the late game, like when you have 5 lands and can cast it and activate it immediately?
Sleeved this up against my friend, who was rocking 4C-Gifts. Seems like an awful match-up, but thankfully this deck isn't very common in general. I went 0-3 (no sideboard testing). Young Pyromancer was a pretty bad card against a deck full of cards like Abrupt Decay, Path to Exile, Damnation, etc. There was only one instance where I could fire off some value and gets 1/1 beats in before Elesh Norn hit. Pack Rat seems pretty good here, but only when you have 5 mana (always keep mana open in response to their kill spells). I was pretty happy with that, but Pack Rat is definitely a late-game card. You pretty much always want to play it when you've depleted most their resources it, whether it be their hand, creatures, or lands from Ghost Quarter-Life from the Loam. I still think Pack Rat is a good finisher though, as it in the late game it doesn't simply fold to a single Bolt, Abrupt Decay, and Path.
That match-up in general was pretty bad, but there's a handful of reasons why. Not too concerned about it. I'll have more results to post in the incoming week or two as I start attending Modern weeklies here.
I goldfished a bunch of hands for a few hours, and it seemed solid overall. I figured since Modern is a turn-4 format, I drew my openers and followed up on what my next 3-4 turns would usually consist of. Is it always correct to fetch for a Red-shock (Stomping Ground/Blood Crypt). I figured I always go for red mana early in the game if I can because of Seismic Assault's backbreaking cost.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
If you're not liking Young Pyromancer, try out Goblin Guide. It usually gets in for 4-6 damage and gives you info about your opponent's hand. The extra damage is usually pretty important when it comes to closing out games. So you only need two copies of Loam to resolve in order to win instead of 3+.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
Instants
1 Darkblast
3 Abrupt Decay
Sorceries
4 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Jab
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
4 Life from the Loam
3 Smallpox
3 Seismic Assault
Planeswalkers
3 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Graven Cairns
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
4 Verdant Catacombs
I tried to have as many cards that could be used from the graveyard as possible. The Lilys and Young Pyromancers felt a bit out of place. It had to be one or the other, but nor both. I was also using IoK in the main to help dampen some of the life loss that this deck has a problem with. I was running 3 but went down to 6 discard spells. I would also like a 4th Abrupt Decay but it doesn't work from the grave which is not that good.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
I've found r/g in particular to be a somewhat difficult matchup because of main deck relic of progenitus. If we draw ghost quarter + loam before they have relic we win, if they have multiple relic it is hard for us. Grudge hits those pesky relics as well.
EDIT: Also they have firespout/cyclonic rift for our token backup plan so we need good sideboard options vs that deck
Other than that I'd suggest going down to 1 Flame Jab in the main, and moving in the Darkblasts. This would free up some sideboard slots for anger if you really need it. Also move a Scavenging Ooze to the main for a Pack Rat because they are both late game mana sinks, but the Ooze can blow put games right away while the rat takes time to set up. I also noticed that you have no manlands, how has that been working?
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.