The fact it is a 3/2 not targetable is nothing to scoff at, but my issue is that it breaks our tempo so much and is only x/2. If we need him to turn around and block he isn't getting much farther than that. Guide basically guarantees about 4 damage in the first 2 turns. Which is very nice to our game plan. They both die to a thalia straight up, but guide doesn't lose us tempo. They both trade with anything else that is x/2. Tiger thankfully can trade up a little higher than guide. I just feel the haste and no loss of tempo in guide is the better option.
Is currently the pyro-pox version the most effective one? I used to play pox loam and I could easily update my list. I remember that the deck pretty much folded to graveyard hate (this is when DRS was still legal).
I've been trying to put together a naya list with KotR but I cannot seem to make it work. It always ends looking like a subpar version of big zoo. Any thoughts on that?
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
The problem I see with Naya lists is I cannot justify losing the control elements of the Loam engine (Raven's Crime, Liliana, Pox) for a cute Loam / Seismic combo in a sub-par Naya shell. I think it may be best to try to mix her on the Young Pyromancer list, taking out the Smallpoxes and add some value creatures (Huntmaster of the Fells, Scavenging Ooze?) / removal / burn.
Don't get me wrong, I'm really trying to play with Knight of the Reliquary, as I love the card, but I don't know how to build around her. Thanks for the reply!
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
I think the issue with knight and pyromancer is that we end up focusing on getting value out of pyromancer. I thought about it originally but I felt like having courser just really adds a good anti aggro presence until our knight is of a large and respectable size to block her heart out. Maybe they should be together but I liked knight to use with ajani since we can use vengeant's ultimate with knight to a great degree.
The problem I see with your Naya list is that you are soft to Combo. The early interactions of just burn/Path, seem underwhelming outside of small creature match ups. Without Snapcaster Mage those sorts of spells don't really advance your board state and you don't have the aggressive early game to capitalize on the burn. I think it may just be that the curve is too high in the deck. The interaction of Knight and Courser is cute but I'd have to actually play with it to see if it accrues enough value. Ajani is a powerhouse but as a 3-of it seems excessive. What is Eternal Witness doing for you? There's just a lot of contention at the 3-slot and I think dropping the curve might help out. Too bad the only useful Landfall cards don't really work well with the rest of the deck. I feel like there is something powerful lurking in the depths of Naya Loam but I'm not sure how best to exploit it. Maybe going a bit bigger on the curve and making use of Lotus Cobra? Ajani and Knight are definitely solid reasons for white but the spells that accompany them don't mesh as well. Maybe looking into running hate cards like Rule of Law or Ghostly Prision as ways to stall the game are worth looking into. I'm really not sure.
It's pretty much just theory crafting for the deck list I made. I would have to test and see it's exact weaknesses. I am thinking it seems great against aggro but I agree it's tough against combo. Eternal witness is just a juicy 2 of for recursion of knight and assault. It may be better fit as another spell or something for ramp, even tribe elder. Thorn of amethyst could probably be in the board to help hate against combo.
The new Aggressive Mining seems like it could be in a slot as the fourth Assualt maybe. Playing it lategame will provide you insane card advantage, but in multiples will be a problem. The other thing is that it would have to change the gameplan a bit more, because if you want it to be the most effective we need lands in play. We can't just really stop at ~4 lands and then use the rest for Assualt damage. There would have to be a good stock of maybe 7 in play so that we could sac a land on each players turn to stock our hand with four cards.
I know there has also been discussion on Waste Not in the past, but it's going to be a very real card soon. Will it have any merit in the Jund shell? Just throwing that out there.
And lastly has Realms Uncharted ever been tested before? It seems like it would provide good card advantage for us. Being able to essentially draw 4 at instant speed is a pseudo-gifts for this deck, even if we don't have that many toolbox-like lands.
Aggressive Mining seems mediocre. Without spells that ramp lands into play, it doesn't seem like it'd really do anything for us unless we were already insanely ahead. In which case, why would you need it?
I tested with Realms Uncharted a long time ago. It's basically just a more expensive Life from the Loam. There aren't enough utility lands to really capitalize on it. So it's just 3cmc into 4 damage. Essentially having the same problem as Grisly Salvage and its ilk. It's nifty but in the end it really doesn't do anything productive.
Waste Not does seem solid, especially with the Loam+Raven's Crime. The main problem I see with a deck like that, is you are going to start leaning more on GB and less on R. I see Assault getting cut from a list like that over time (and probably rightfully so) which would disassociate it from this primer's topic. I've considered building a GB discard deck that utilizes Waste Not in a manner similar to 8-Rack since that seems more linear and effective. It'd just fall away from being an Assault Loam deck. I'd say test it out when you can and see how shoehorning it in works out, since there is some overlap in strategy but don't try to force R in it if it doesn't make sense.
Waste not is probably best in a black green 8 rack shell since it almost acts as rack 9-12. Other than that I don't see it having much of a place in assault Loam.
Aggressive Mining seems mediocre. Without spells that ramp lands into play, it doesn't seem like it'd really do anything for us unless we were already insanely ahead. In which case, why would you need it?
I tested with Realms Uncharted a long time ago. It's basically just a more expensive Life from the Loam. There aren't enough utility lands to really capitalize on it. So it's just 3cmc into 4 damage. Essentially having the same problem as Grisly Salvage and its ilk. It's nifty but in the end it really doesn't do anything productive.
Waste Not does seem solid, especially with the Loam+Raven's Crime. The main problem I see with a deck like that, is you are going to start leaning more on GB and less on R. I see Assault getting cut from a list like that over time (and probably rightfully so) which would disassociate it from this primer's topic. I've considered building a GB discard deck that utilizes Waste Not in a manner similar to 8-Rack since that seems more linear and effective. It'd just fall away from being an Assault Loam deck. I'd say test it out when you can and see how shoehorning it in works out, since there is some overlap in strategy but don't try to force R in it if it doesn't make sense.
Ok, well Realms Uncharted was just a idea that I figured has been brought up a billion times before, I'd just never seen it on here.
As for waste not, I have been looking into a sort of Gristlebrand-Reanimator-Assualt-Loam lovechild hybrid. It is primarily GB and has a tiny splash of red in it. Once I get the list from the guy I am going to do my own version of it, since I already have been and then I can post it back here. I know it's not strictly Assault Loam, but it may offer up ideas to other people. I was thinking it would make for a good start for Waste Not.
Hey guys just wanted an opinion on the Loam deck I just put together. My meta consists of Grixis control, R/U Delver, RUG Twin, Burn, Soulsisters, Pod, and some randoms.
Anywho,
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
It's been a while since last time I played Pox-Loam (too many graveyard hate on my local meta). I used to run 4 Bloodghasts but it seems that they got replaced by Young Pyromancer these days.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
It's been a while since last time I played Pox-Loam (too many graveyard hate on my local meta). I used to run 4 Bloodghasts but it seems that they got replaced by Young Pyromancer these days.
Seems good. What do you suggest for playing around graveyard hate? People in my meta really only sideboard Grafdigger's Cage which doesn't really stop Loam. Any ideas on a transformative kind of sideboard? Tombstalker maybe?
Honestly, I don't know. I'm sure the other guys can provide you with some good advice. I stopped playing Loam because I felt that it doesn't have a strong plan B.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
Honestly, I don't know. I'm sure the other guys can provide you with some good advice. I stopped playing Loam because I felt that it doesn't have a strong plan B.
Okay well thanks for the input man. I appreciate it.
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all I know is pain
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I've been trying to put together a naya list with KotR but I cannot seem to make it work. It always ends looking like a subpar version of big zoo. Any thoughts on that?
4 Arid Mesa
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Raging Ravine
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Stirring Wildwood
3 Stomping Ground
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells
3 Ajani Vengeant
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
3 Seismic Assault
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Path to Exile
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Don't get me wrong, I'm really trying to play with Knight of the Reliquary, as I love the card, but I don't know how to build around her. Thanks for the reply!
In response to the other guy. That card is kinda hilarious to me. Makes me wish mana bond was legal in modern. Lol
I know there has also been discussion on Waste Not in the past, but it's going to be a very real card soon. Will it have any merit in the Jund shell? Just throwing that out there.
And lastly has Realms Uncharted ever been tested before? It seems like it would provide good card advantage for us. Being able to essentially draw 4 at instant speed is a pseudo-gifts for this deck, even if we don't have that many toolbox-like lands.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I tested with Realms Uncharted a long time ago. It's basically just a more expensive Life from the Loam. There aren't enough utility lands to really capitalize on it. So it's just 3cmc into 4 damage. Essentially having the same problem as Grisly Salvage and its ilk. It's nifty but in the end it really doesn't do anything productive.
Waste Not does seem solid, especially with the Loam+Raven's Crime. The main problem I see with a deck like that, is you are going to start leaning more on GB and less on R. I see Assault getting cut from a list like that over time (and probably rightfully so) which would disassociate it from this primer's topic. I've considered building a GB discard deck that utilizes Waste Not in a manner similar to 8-Rack since that seems more linear and effective. It'd just fall away from being an Assault Loam deck. I'd say test it out when you can and see how shoehorning it in works out, since there is some overlap in strategy but don't try to force R in it if it doesn't make sense.
As for waste not, I have been looking into a sort of Gristlebrand-Reanimator-Assualt-Loam lovechild hybrid. It is primarily GB and has a tiny splash of red in it. Once I get the list from the guy I am going to do my own version of it, since I already have been and then I can post it back here. I know it's not strictly Assault Loam, but it may offer up ideas to other people. I was thinking it would make for a good start for Waste Not.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Anywho,
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Graven Cairns
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Stomping Grounds
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Breeding Pool
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Bloodghast
Enchantments
3 Seismic Assault
2 Zombie Infestation
Spells
4 Life from the Loam
4 Faithless Looting
4 Smallpox
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
2 Desperate Ravings
2 Firespout
1 Worm Harvest
Plainswalker
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Buried Ruin
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Torpor Orb
2 Pithing Needle
3 Extirpate
2 Damnation
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Nature's Claim
Why not use Anger of the Gods instead of Firespout?
Thanks man! I didn't even think about Anger. I will definitely replace those.
What would you suggest of Infestation? More Bloodghasts? Or Maybe Lingering Souls?
Seems good. What do you suggest for playing around graveyard hate? People in my meta really only sideboard Grafdigger's Cage which doesn't really stop Loam. Any ideas on a transformative kind of sideboard? Tombstalker maybe?
Okay well thanks for the input man. I appreciate it.