Council will hardly affect at all agaisnt scapeshift, echoing truth is a card.
Agaisnt twin, i would be surprised if a 4 drop resolves, and even if it does, by turn 4 they can usually go off, so i wouldnt recommend to tap out, either.
It may have a place in the sb, but i dont think so.
I'm trying him in Geist of Saint Win, but he only feels borderline keepable to me (I may end up taking the 2 copies of him out for another creature and a Cryptic Command). Actually being able to shove the lone Traft blocker out of the way is nice, but the lack of life gain of his -2 hurts, and he's significantly more vulnerable to being swung into than Ajani Vengeant is because his +1 doesn't actually ice stuff.
Then again, he can be cast with counter backup against non-blue decks with 5 lands instead of Ajani V's 6, and he ults 1 turn sooner, which is significant (and yes, his ult wins games). He can also -2 twice in a row if he's not interrupted, and if you're desperate, he can mildly ramp into stuff like Thundermaw Hellkite. He can also virtually grant Vigilance to evasive, large swingers like Restoration Angel. And he's better against blue-based combo like Exarch Twin than Ajani V is because Ajani V's +1 keeps facing only untapped lands and Ral Zarek can actually tap Spellskite, force out Cryptic Command, and keep them from profitably casting Remand if they're mana-screwed enough (well, Ral is better against Twin and rotted just as much against Scapeshift in my testing).
But then again, he felt pretty borderline in testing, and I almost want to try out a Cryptic and get Lyev Skyknight back in (the 1-of Lyev Skyknight pulled its weight last time I tested it--it's good against aggro/midrange, an evasive, efficient beater against other decks, and combos as well with Traft as Ral does).
That's why I put 1 baneslayer angel and 1 Lavinia of the tenth and 3 resto in my mb. Because I would find my self without any threats in mid - late game even though I play 4 geist, which I'm thinking of cutting down one for a venser shaped savant.
It should be pretty easy with the amount of removal this deck has. Hold your Paths and burn for the relevant creatures (the combo ones), preserve your counters for Pod, win?
It should be pretty easy with the amount of removal this deck has. Hold your Paths and burn for the relevant creatures (the combo ones), preserve your counters for Pod, win?
Thx... I'm new to this deck, what's our win condition in this MU? the Colonade and keep mana open for path/burn?
Don't forget to burn out their T1 mana dorks. Slowing that deck down is key. When they try to abuse Pod's phyrexian cost, remand it and proceed to lol. You should hold back your Paths for Finks or something large like Baneslayer. And if you start to see the combo on the board, just wait until they try and activate it and burn Melira while finks or redcap is in the yard (with persist on the stack).
As far as a wincon goes, yea it's usually colonnade, but if you can safely stick Geist, he's the preferred method of beats.
Burning the mana dorks is indeed a relevant speed bump for them. But if you kept a burn/removal light hand, be careful. You'll probably draw some more soon, but just be a bit more conservative.
If you start off with more than 1 removal spell, I'd bust all but the last one on non-combo pieces (or combo pieces) such as mana dorks, Thalia, and Tidehollow Sculler, and reserve the last one for combo pieces. Kick out Spellskite and Glen Elendra Archmage ASAP--this is even higher priority than reserving your last removal spell for combo pieces, as those guys hose removal.
Smart Pod players will try to dodge Mana Leak (or at least Izzet Charm) when they cast Birthing Pod, and that will make the match-up harder than you think.
Cryptic Command can bounce a combo piece if you're really desperate and you don't have any other removal.
I'd also kill Melira in response to Persist when they initiate the infinite combo, but if the sac outlet is Varolz, the Scar-Striped instead of Viscera Seer or Cartel Aristocrat, prepare to be disappointed when you only kill 1 creature instead of 1.5 (the 0.5 is the post-Persist dude) with that removal spell. If you have 2 removal spells, you can try instigating the combo by trying to kill a combo piece, then killing Melira in response to Persist again.
Gavony Township and Varolz make all their dudes big enough to put up fights, so pray you get good enough crowd control.
4 artifact hate seems like too much for me considering they cant combo without cratures.
Also, melira works with the GY, so it has a fundamentally different need for hate.
If i had to say, for kikipod i would play x2 stony silence, and add all possible removal, but i would definitly keep the counters for pod.
For melira pod i would just play GY hate and removal, and let them resolve their pod.
4 artifact hate seems like too much for me considering they cant combo without cratures.
Also, melira works with the GY, so it has a fundamentally different need for hate.
If i had to say, for kikipod i would play x2 stony silence, and add all possible removal, but i would definitly keep the counters for pod.
For melira pod i would just play GY hate and removal, and let them resolve their pod.
Letting that Pod resolve is actually really dangerous against Melira. The times that I've tested my two decks together and Melira beat UWr was when Pod resolved. Granted, if you have a removal spell for every single creature that hits the board, by all means let the Pod resolve. But as long as it is their turn if they land a creature through your counterspells, as active player they will have priority and Pod's sac is part of the cost. They'll get the activation before you can bolt their Pod fodder.
So? The point is to bolt melira, not the fodder.
The two pod decks work differently, so there is no point in applying the same answers. Melira pod wants to assemble a 3 guy combo, and NEEDS melira and vicera seer, together with a clean GY for that. So just bolt melira preferently (but i guess seer could work too) with finks/redcap´s persist trigger on the stack, and when they come back, they have a counter.
Assuming you didnt play a GY hate card to destroy their whole plan.
With kiki pod is an enttire different story, since their combo works at instant speed, and only need 2 enablers to work, of which they have different guys to do that, not counting phantasmal image (kiki-angel, kiki-bell ringer, kiki-exarch, kiki-conscripts, you get the idea)
In this MU, you cant let pod resolve, or of you cant stop stop, you have to make sure you have your hate ready (stony silence, disenchant, wear/tear, whatever you prefer) or your removal ready.
As i said, since their combo works at instant speed and 3 of the enablers can come down at instant speed too, the approach to stop them needs to be different from melira.
Edit: i forgot to mention, against melira you can play a lot of artifact hate and get away with dead cards in hand, since their midrange plan is almost non-existant.
Try and do that against kiki-pod, i can guarantee you are gonna get run over by a sigarda or something like that.
So? The point is to bolt melira, not the fodder.
The two pod decks work differently, so there is no point in applying the same answers. Melira pod wants to assemble a 3 guy combo, and NEEDS melira and vicera seer, together with a clean GY for that. So just bolt melira preferently (but i guess seer could work too) with finks/redcap´s persist trigger on the stack, and when they come back, they have a counter.
Assuming you didnt play a GY hate card to destroy their whole plan.
With kiki pod is an enttire different story, since their combo works at instant speed, and only need 2 enablers to work, of which they have different guys to do that, not counting phantasmal image (kiki-angel, kiki-bell ringer, kiki-exarch, kiki-conscripts, you get the idea)
In this MU, you cant let pod resolve, or of you cant stop stop, you have to make sure you have your hate ready (stony silence, disenchant, wear/tear, whatever you prefer) or your removal ready.
As i said, since their combo works at instant speed and 3 of the enablers can come down at instant speed too, the approach to stop them needs to be different from melira.
I agree with you on how to deal with Kiki-Pod. However, I really wanted to point out that Melira Pod wins through its beatdown plan more often than it combos for the win. Beating that deck is not just about dealing with the GY or Melira. You have to be just as weary of the little dudes you spared when Gavony comes down, and don't underestimate Melira Pod's ability to flourish when its on the grind. Finks, Redcap, Resto, Lark, EWit make removal less potent. While I would play Rest in Peace against this deck, I would also not expect it to stick for very long on account of the tutorable enchantment hate Melira runs.
I just wanted to say something that I realized not long ago (it's actually pretty basic but for some reason I always missed it):
So I'm used to, when there's a Pod in play, just let the opponent cast a creature if I can't counter it, and watch helplessly how they Pod it away and gain value, since they retain priority being the active player.
However, I realized that in the case of ultra annoying creatures like Finks or Redcap, since they have triggers when entering the battlefield, you can respond to them with a Path and leave the Pod player creatureless.
This has actually made me won a few games now, whereas before I just let them sac Finks for Resto
This cannot be done (as far as I know) with "normal" creatures which don't have ETB abilities like Wall of Roots or Melira
I just wanted to say something that I realized not long ago (it's actually pretty basic but for some reason I always missed it):
So I'm used to, when there's a Pod in play, just let the opponent cast a creature if I can't counter it, and watch helplessly how they Pod it away and gain value, since they retain priority being the active player.
However, I realized that in the case of ultra annoying creatures like Finks or Redcap, since they have triggers when entering the battlefield, you can respond to them with a Path and leave the Pod player creatureless.
This has actually made me won a few games now, whereas before I just let them sac Finks for Resto
This cannot be done (as far as I know) with "normal" creatures which don't have ETB abilities like Wall of Roots or Melira
Good insight, that's definitely an interaction you should keep in mind when playing against Pod. I can't remember if I've ever pulled this off; I think I've only had bolts in hand during these situations.
i am still torn about some things... stony silence could maybe go since grafdigger's cage does the job against Pod, and i will find prolly No tron nor affinity. Maybe 1x batterskull could come in.
plus, i am thinking of taking 1x geist of saint traft out MB to play 1 more restoration angel or 1x batterskull. Last time meta was pretty aggro, with lots of GW and Jund, Pod everywhere, some zoo, and 1 BUG. My friends are gonna play Pod and Twin. So maybe this could sound better. I am thinking of leaving out 1x lightning helix or electrolyze MB to play the whole set of Path to exile MB for goyfs, finks, etc.
THOUGHTS?
I would like to see the Main too, its hard to give advice like this.
Wll, i will try anyways:
If you metagame doesnt have tron or affinity, i coul see stony silence leaving the SB without problems, still i find hard to believe that nobody plays 2 of modern´s best decks.
3 Paths should be enough to handle goyf and finks, you run snapcaster after all, and have grafdiggers cage.
Still, the lack of GY hate is a bit unsettling, i know those decks arent all that predominant right now, but i never like to walk into a room without some form of hate for GY strategies, since without hate you tend to lose to them no matter what you do.
They are also useful to keep goyf, deathrite and finks in check, so i would recommend to play at least x2 of tormods crypt, rest in peace, purify the grave or relic of progenitus.
4 disenchant effects seems like too much, even if you are expecting a lot of pod and twin, specially since the effects are really similar.
If you are so worried about those 2 match ups, maybe you could try something like annul? Try to diversify your answers, it will make responding to your plays harder. Keep them guessing what you have.
On another note, if your meta is as aggro as you say, not playing x4 helix main seems silly, path is good, but it wont save your from an aggro decks explosive starts, helix will.
And NEVER take out a geist from the MB.
Batterskull is a great addittion to any deck for sure, i run one MB and never regret seeing it, but i wouldnt cut a geist for it, try to find something else.
Im not sure what that edge is doing in your Sb, how many do you run main?
I would like those 2 wraths to be one wrath and one verdict, but thats just me.
Thats the most i can say without knowing your 60, and knowing them may make me change my advice.
I suggest you try to play at least 2 GY hate effect agaisnt jund, trust me, you will feel the difference when you dont have to worry about goyf, shaman, and only half souls and finks.
The rest seems ok, i still dong dig the SB edge, but its just because i dont like lands on my SB.
The wrath/verdict is a small issue, actually, but if you run into some form of tempo deck you will be glad you had one. Its also good in the mirror, and to get rid of opposing geists without having to sac your own.
For reference, if i were to walk into an unknown metagame today, i would play something along the lines of this:
Agaisnt twin, i would be surprised if a 4 drop resolves, and even if it does, by turn 4 they can usually go off, so i wouldnt recommend to tap out, either.
It may have a place in the sb, but i dont think so.
I'm trying him in Geist of Saint Win, but he only feels borderline keepable to me (I may end up taking the 2 copies of him out for another creature and a Cryptic Command). Actually being able to shove the lone Traft blocker out of the way is nice, but the lack of life gain of his -2 hurts, and he's significantly more vulnerable to being swung into than Ajani Vengeant is because his +1 doesn't actually ice stuff.
Then again, he can be cast with counter backup against non-blue decks with 5 lands instead of Ajani V's 6, and he ults 1 turn sooner, which is significant (and yes, his ult wins games). He can also -2 twice in a row if he's not interrupted, and if you're desperate, he can mildly ramp into stuff like Thundermaw Hellkite. He can also virtually grant Vigilance to evasive, large swingers like Restoration Angel. And he's better against blue-based combo like Exarch Twin than Ajani V is because Ajani V's +1 keeps facing only untapped lands and Ral Zarek can actually tap Spellskite, force out Cryptic Command, and keep them from profitably casting Remand if they're mana-screwed enough (well, Ral is better against Twin and rotted just as much against Scapeshift in my testing).
But then again, he felt pretty borderline in testing, and I almost want to try out a Cryptic and get Lyev Skyknight back in (the 1-of Lyev Skyknight pulled its weight last time I tested it--it's good against aggro/midrange, an evasive, efficient beater against other decks, and combos as well with Traft as Ral does).
Thanks!
Thx... I'm new to this deck, what's our win condition in this MU? the Colonade and keep mana open for path/burn?
As far as a wincon goes, yea it's usually colonnade, but if you can safely stick Geist, he's the preferred method of beats.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
If you start off with more than 1 removal spell, I'd bust all but the last one on non-combo pieces (or combo pieces) such as mana dorks, Thalia, and Tidehollow Sculler, and reserve the last one for combo pieces. Kick out Spellskite and Glen Elendra Archmage ASAP--this is even higher priority than reserving your last removal spell for combo pieces, as those guys hose removal.
Smart Pod players will try to dodge Mana Leak (or at least Izzet Charm) when they cast Birthing Pod, and that will make the match-up harder than you think.
Cryptic Command can bounce a combo piece if you're really desperate and you don't have any other removal.
I'd also kill Melira in response to Persist when they initiate the infinite combo, but if the sac outlet is Varolz, the Scar-Striped instead of Viscera Seer or Cartel Aristocrat, prepare to be disappointed when you only kill 1 creature instead of 1.5 (the 0.5 is the post-Persist dude) with that removal spell. If you have 2 removal spells, you can try instigating the combo by trying to kill a combo piece, then killing Melira in response to Persist again.
Gavony Township and Varolz make all their dudes big enough to put up fights, so pray you get good enough crowd control.
Also, melira works with the GY, so it has a fundamentally different need for hate.
If i had to say, for kikipod i would play x2 stony silence, and add all possible removal, but i would definitly keep the counters for pod.
For melira pod i would just play GY hate and removal, and let them resolve their pod.
Letting that Pod resolve is actually really dangerous against Melira. The times that I've tested my two decks together and Melira beat UWr was when Pod resolved. Granted, if you have a removal spell for every single creature that hits the board, by all means let the Pod resolve. But as long as it is their turn if they land a creature through your counterspells, as active player they will have priority and Pod's sac is part of the cost. They'll get the activation before you can bolt their Pod fodder.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
The two pod decks work differently, so there is no point in applying the same answers. Melira pod wants to assemble a 3 guy combo, and NEEDS melira and vicera seer, together with a clean GY for that. So just bolt melira preferently (but i guess seer could work too) with finks/redcap´s persist trigger on the stack, and when they come back, they have a counter.
Assuming you didnt play a GY hate card to destroy their whole plan.
With kiki pod is an enttire different story, since their combo works at instant speed, and only need 2 enablers to work, of which they have different guys to do that, not counting phantasmal image (kiki-angel, kiki-bell ringer, kiki-exarch, kiki-conscripts, you get the idea)
In this MU, you cant let pod resolve, or of you cant stop stop, you have to make sure you have your hate ready (stony silence, disenchant, wear/tear, whatever you prefer) or your removal ready.
As i said, since their combo works at instant speed and 3 of the enablers can come down at instant speed too, the approach to stop them needs to be different from melira.
Edit: i forgot to mention, against melira you can play a lot of artifact hate and get away with dead cards in hand, since their midrange plan is almost non-existant.
Try and do that against kiki-pod, i can guarantee you are gonna get run over by a sigarda or something like that.
I agree with you on how to deal with Kiki-Pod. However, I really wanted to point out that Melira Pod wins through its beatdown plan more often than it combos for the win. Beating that deck is not just about dealing with the GY or Melira. You have to be just as weary of the little dudes you spared when Gavony comes down, and don't underestimate Melira Pod's ability to flourish when its on the grind. Finks, Redcap, Resto, Lark, EWit make removal less potent. While I would play Rest in Peace against this deck, I would also not expect it to stick for very long on account of the tutorable enchantment hate Melira runs.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
Cage is an excellent option against both decks. I absolutely hate to see that hit the field.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
So I'm used to, when there's a Pod in play, just let the opponent cast a creature if I can't counter it, and watch helplessly how they Pod it away and gain value, since they retain priority being the active player.
However, I realized that in the case of ultra annoying creatures like Finks or Redcap, since they have triggers when entering the battlefield, you can respond to them with a Path and leave the Pod player creatureless.
This has actually made me won a few games now, whereas before I just let them sac Finks for Resto
This cannot be done (as far as I know) with "normal" creatures which don't have ETB abilities like Wall of Roots or Melira
Good insight, that's definitely an interaction you should keep in mind when playing against Pod. I can't remember if I've ever pulled this off; I think I've only had bolts in hand during these situations.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
I would like to see the Main too, its hard to give advice like this.
Wll, i will try anyways:
If you metagame doesnt have tron or affinity, i coul see stony silence leaving the SB without problems, still i find hard to believe that nobody plays 2 of modern´s best decks.
3 Paths should be enough to handle goyf and finks, you run snapcaster after all, and have grafdiggers cage.
Still, the lack of GY hate is a bit unsettling, i know those decks arent all that predominant right now, but i never like to walk into a room without some form of hate for GY strategies, since without hate you tend to lose to them no matter what you do.
They are also useful to keep goyf, deathrite and finks in check, so i would recommend to play at least x2 of tormods crypt, rest in peace, purify the grave or relic of progenitus.
4 disenchant effects seems like too much, even if you are expecting a lot of pod and twin, specially since the effects are really similar.
If you are so worried about those 2 match ups, maybe you could try something like annul? Try to diversify your answers, it will make responding to your plays harder. Keep them guessing what you have.
On another note, if your meta is as aggro as you say, not playing x4 helix main seems silly, path is good, but it wont save your from an aggro decks explosive starts, helix will.
And NEVER take out a geist from the MB.
Batterskull is a great addittion to any deck for sure, i run one MB and never regret seeing it, but i wouldnt cut a geist for it, try to find something else.
Im not sure what that edge is doing in your Sb, how many do you run main?
I would like those 2 wraths to be one wrath and one verdict, but thats just me.
Thats the most i can say without knowing your 60, and knowing them may make me change my advice.
The rest seems ok, i still dong dig the SB edge, but its just because i dont like lands on my SB.
The wrath/verdict is a small issue, actually, but if you run into some form of tempo deck you will be glad you had one. Its also good in the mirror, and to get rid of opposing geists without having to sac your own.
For reference, if i were to walk into an unknown metagame today, i would play something along the lines of this:
1 Batterskull
Creatures
1 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
Instants
1 Cryptic Command
3 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
3 Path to Exile
4 Remand
3 Spell Snare
1 Island
1 Mountain
3 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Plains
1 Eiganjo Castle
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
2 Counterflux
1 Negate
1 Path to Exile
1 Sphinx´s Revelation
1 Wear//Tear
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God