You should probably look at the UWR control thread, as it gets more activity. The geist/queller version is discussed there. (Yes, I know it probably belongs here, but until all of the UWR threads get sorted out, the control one is the most traffic-ed).
People don't play delver much in modern because its difficult to set him up. Brainstorm isn't legal, ponder/preordain are banned. Opt can't set him up. Serum visions is 1 card, a sorcery, etc. Decks have to play more lands because of fewer cantrips, etc. Delver isn't really very strong.
Logic knot and snapcaster mage is the same deck is fine. Occasionally you may run into trouble, but using logic knot as a syncopate is pretty acceptable often times (and the times you don't you often just delve 1-2 fetches).
We are now top tier! Now it would be very nice if the mods will move us up where we rightfully belong.
Sadly, pretty much all UWR discussions are being held in the Jeskai Control forum. Pretty frustrating, given that the Geist list is def a tempo/midrange list even though it's playing Cryptic Command.
Sadly, pretty much all UWR discussions are being held in the Jeskai Control forum. Pretty frustrating, given that the Geist list is def a tempo/midrange list even though it's playing Cryptic Command.
Cryptic Command is not a "control"-specific card. It has been played in tempo, midrange, delver-decks (like RUG Delver), splinter Twin etc. through the history of modern. Vjeran Horvat has always been playing some number of cryptics in Jeskai Midrange, like when he won GP Prague 2014: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=6436&d=236995&f=MO
It's a great tempo-card, with the option to tap down blockers and swing with geist etc. and bounce problematic permanents before going for the win.
Sadly, pretty much all UWR discussions are being held in the Jeskai Control forum. Pretty frustrating, given that the Geist list is def a tempo/midrange list even though it's playing Cryptic Command.
Cryptic Command is not a "control"-specific card. It has been played in tempo, midrange, delver-decks (like RUG Delver), splinter Twin etc. through the history of modern. Vjeran Horvat has always been playing some number of cryptics in Jeskai Midrange, like when he won GP Prague 2014: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=6436&d=236995&f=MO
It's a great tempo-card, with the option to tap down blockers and swing with geist etc. and bounce problematic permanents before going for the win.
I didn't say that it wasn't. many people view Cryptic as a control card. My point was that the discussion was moved to the Jeskai control forum.
Sadly, pretty much all UWR discussions are being held in the Jeskai Control forum. Pretty frustrating, given that the Geist list is def a tempo/midrange list even though it's playing Cryptic Command.
Cryptic Command is not a "control"-specific card. It has been played in tempo, midrange, delver-decks (like RUG Delver), splinter Twin etc. through the history of modern. Vjeran Horvat has always been playing some number of cryptics in Jeskai Midrange, like when he won GP Prague 2014: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=6436&d=236995&f=MO
It's a great tempo-card, with the option to tap down blockers and swing with geist etc. and bounce problematic permanents before going for the win.
I didn't say that it wasn't. many people view Cryptic as a control card. My point was that the discussion was moved to the Jeskai control forum.
Why does it matter where it happens so long as it's happening?
Sadly, pretty much all UWR discussions are being held in the Jeskai Control forum. Pretty frustrating, given that the Geist list is def a tempo/midrange list even though it's playing Cryptic Command.
Cryptic Command is not a "control"-specific card. It has been played in tempo, midrange, delver-decks (like RUG Delver), splinter Twin etc. through the history of modern. Vjeran Horvat has always been playing some number of cryptics in Jeskai Midrange, like when he won GP Prague 2014: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=6436&d=236995&f=MO
It's a great tempo-card, with the option to tap down blockers and swing with geist etc. and bounce problematic permanents before going for the win.
I didn't say that it wasn't. many people view Cryptic as a control card. My point was that the discussion was moved to the Jeskai control forum.
Why does it matter where it happens so long as it's happening?
You know we used to have a moderator that, as well as updating the tiers regularly, cared a lot about the order and structure in this forum and he would have gasped to statements like the one you just made. I think most people knew he did an important job here, but I would never have guessed things would go completely off rails like it has after he left...
These threads on mtgsalvation are more than just chat forums. They go many years back and are valuable and important documentation of the history and tradition of the archetypes of modern magic. And now the jeskai threads are falling into complete chaos because people don't seem to care about categorization anymore. People who want to discuss hard control with 4 snaps or 3 snaps/1 gearhulk are drowning in midrange talk...
It shouldn't be so hard to understand: This thread is about jeskai/UWR midrange with a reasonable amount of creatures, while the Jeskai/UWR Control forum is about hard control with snapcaster as the main creature. The decks with ~11 creatures that are doing well these days clearly belongs in the midrange thread.
And to people who come to the midrange thread and tell people to head to the incorrect thread instead: Please stop doing that, you're not helping.
I have now sent this message to the mods, so let's see if something happens:
Can a moderator please move this thread to tier 1 where it belongs as soon as possible? The thread is dying, and is being overtaken by the "Jeskai Control"-thread, because it's wrongfully placed under "developing competitive ". Toroks
@toroks, I understand all of that. I actually asked (several pages ago) why the other thread got bumped to tier 2 while this is where it is. I guess my point is that ever since they started this merger business (Curse and Twitch), the site has gone to crap in many ways. What used to be doesn't seem to matter to now with respect to many things.
I doubt anyone here has a good win/loss ratio against Dredge. As Jeskai, most people just give the matchup up. It's awful, almost as bad as Eldrazi Tron
Well first of all, this list has won an Open, so we know it's solid. It has also made multiple top eight appearances. I think more than 4 cantrips is sub optimal because there's not a lot you can cut from the list to make room for them.
Well, shorting yourself a land from 24 to 23 isn't significant if you look at the likelihood you'll get at least 2 lands in your opening hand, but what I've seen when you start going up on the number of cantrips is that you end up "spinning your wheels" trying to find relevant spells while under duress. If you've ever played some forms of Grixis Death Shadow, I think it would give you better understanding of why you don't want all the cantrips in the world, or would at least want cantrips that do something relevant while drawing a card.
So you think the cut of the 24th Land and the cut of the third Logic Knot makes my List way worse than the list of Harlan? And you dont even have any Arguments for this? Wow, not bad
I Guess, the core is the same, and this is, what makes this Deck so powerfull. How many Counters and Cantrips do you play is a little more flexible then you think imo.
And of course, its won an open, its solid.
what a pity, i hoped for a discussion.. but all i got was an argument, wich is verrified with itself. And again, not bad
'
You're good at manipulating people's words. Just trying to help here dude, keep in mind that every criticism isn't an attack.
People don't play delver much in modern because its difficult to set him up. Brainstorm isn't legal, ponder/preordain are banned. Opt can't set him up. Serum visions is 1 card, a sorcery, etc. Decks have to play more lands because of fewer cantrips, etc. Delver isn't really very strong.
Logic knot and snapcaster mage is the same deck is fine. Occasionally you may run into trouble, but using logic knot as a syncopate is pretty acceptable often times (and the times you don't you often just delve 1-2 fetches).
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
Sadly, pretty much all UWR discussions are being held in the Jeskai Control forum. Pretty frustrating, given that the Geist list is def a tempo/midrange list even though it's playing Cryptic Command.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Cryptic Command is not a "control"-specific card. It has been played in tempo, midrange, delver-decks (like RUG Delver), splinter Twin etc. through the history of modern. Vjeran Horvat has always been playing some number of cryptics in Jeskai Midrange, like when he won GP Prague 2014: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=6436&d=236995&f=MO
It's a great tempo-card, with the option to tap down blockers and swing with geist etc. and bounce problematic permanents before going for the win.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
I didn't say that it wasn't. many people view Cryptic as a control card. My point was that the discussion was moved to the Jeskai control forum.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
Why does it matter where it happens so long as it's happening?
You know we used to have a moderator that, as well as updating the tiers regularly, cared a lot about the order and structure in this forum and he would have gasped to statements like the one you just made. I think most people knew he did an important job here, but I would never have guessed things would go completely off rails like it has after he left...
These threads on mtgsalvation are more than just chat forums. They go many years back and are valuable and important documentation of the history and tradition of the archetypes of modern magic. And now the jeskai threads are falling into complete chaos because people don't seem to care about categorization anymore. People who want to discuss hard control with 4 snaps or 3 snaps/1 gearhulk are drowning in midrange talk...
It shouldn't be so hard to understand: This thread is about jeskai/UWR midrange with a reasonable amount of creatures, while the Jeskai/UWR Control forum is about hard control with snapcaster as the main creature. The decks with ~11 creatures that are doing well these days clearly belongs in the midrange thread.
And to people who come to the midrange thread and tell people to head to the incorrect thread instead: Please stop doing that, you're not helping.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
You're good at manipulating people's words. Just trying to help here dude, keep in mind that every criticism isn't an attack.
UWR Control
BR Hollow One
JTMS is unbanned.
4 Opt
2 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
3 Remand
1 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
Creatures (12)
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Restoration Angel
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Celestial Colonade
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Wear // Tear
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Celestial Purge
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Dispel
2 Disdainful Stroke
I'm thinking of moving to that list, since I have felt rather underwhelmed with my Jeskai Queller deck. It seems like a fun one to play too.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W