I can comfortably say this deck will win at most 1% of games! But I'm sure with 20 lands it's solid.
How did you feel about the dice factory experiments? I had the same thoughts originally to combo with new Karn and getting Lattice out super fast but numerous games with Cornucopia on 10 doing nothing kinda annoyed me. It was an undoubtedly powerful deck but I kept wanting to cut mana rocks for Bauble's and more prison pieces and it seemed a bit fragmented.
Narset is a sweet tech and fills the role of "searching for a non-land non-creature card" that we've been so desperate for (literally considered playing board the weatherlight). Narset was only a buck at my lgs so I'll probably take it for a spin.
The dice factory shell was super sweet, and explosive. But it was MUCH better with the London mulligan. Getting a 7 with either rock/charge adder or thopter/sword meant a mull to even 5 was fine.
I decided to forgo the dice factory build and play a version with discard until the London is reinstated, and the Narset package is space-efficient and has the potential to be good against big mana like tron or scapeshift (because they have no attackers), although it's become apparent I need a single card in my main to answer ensnaring bridge.
If and when the London comes back, I will be back on dice factory shell. It is possible to stall on drawing payoff cards, like you said, but just remember Inventors' Fair is your friend. I wouldn't play less than 3 in a dice factory shell.
I've been quite liking Teferi, Time Raveler more and more as I play him. He helps a ton vs control, making everything uncounterable. It's also nice knowing that instant speed interaction for thopter sword, like surgical, is disabled. The +1 is useless pretty much. The -3 is expensive but occasionally quite good. Bouncing a leyline they may not be able to recast is sweet, bounce a stony to make some tokens etc. Drawing a card off the bounce ability is pretty sweet.
So I've been working on a newer brew similar to thopter sword roots. It's been interesting for sure. Currently I'm 15/1/3 in the past 2 fnms and 2 Saturday 1k in different metagames.
I've been making small changes, but the list has been great. My only loss was my own clear mistakes not the deck.
Force of Negation is the new free counterspell from Horizons. MAN does it do everything we need it to do. It only hits non-creature permanents, but those are what we struggle with, especially post board. Being able to tap out turn 2 for a foundry and being able to protect it is huge. Being able to protect a whir feom counter magic as we cast it on their end step is huge. Catching a turn 2 stony, or a Karn, or a Teferi, or scapeshift, or even just an abrade... it's all good. We don't care about card disadvantage as much as a lot of other fair decks because of how thopter sword plays out.
I'm definitely jamming 4 main deck, with probably a few extra cantrips to increase the blue card concentrarion.
Edit: I've been trying to think of some good removal in Ux to shore up creature matchups. Tyrant's Scorn, Detention Sphere, and Supreme Verdict is what comes to mind so far.
Im going to try a more legacy-style build now this has been spoiled. between this, whir, tezz and foundry we have quite a few blue cards already. any ideas of other blue cards that we can pitch to force? im thinking big tezz, reshape,narset... this might even convince me to play serum visions finally lol.
Ideas Unbound was a card a long while back but shelved because Faithless Looting was so much better. Hard to play when we might actively want a bit of card advantage now but it's still a sweet piece of tech if we ever find another card that wants to be discarded.
Oh snap, new Urza, Lord High Artificer is interesting, 4 mana 1/4, makes a Karn Scion of Urza construct on entering, all your artifacts now tap for U, and 5 mana to shuffle, exile top card, and until end of turn cast that card for free. Makes thopter sword infinite life, infinite tokens, infinite mana, since you can just tap the sword for u each time, or tap the sword and the token for u.
Came back here after I saw the Urza spoiler. I'm not a card rating genius or anything, but doesn't this this back on the map, in a big way? I stopped playing thopters right around the KCI ban, but other than it dying to creature removal, it seems like this more than fills the Krark-Clan role, but better.
I think this is pretty huge, ya. The deck could take a radical twist around Urza. There are a bunch of ways you could win on the spot with thopter sword + urza. Play a single blasting station and flip your deck till you hit it with the infinite mana, then win with blasting station, etc. I think there is a lot of power and potential there.
As crazy as it sounds we might be running 4 creatures in a dedicated Thopter/Whir deck lol. Hell, I would play 4 SSG to have this out as early as possible. Are there instant speed wincons with that much mana? All I can think of is X spells like Blue Sun Zenith. Perhaps a 1x Heroic Intervention to protect everything until end of turn and then tutor sorcery speed stuff.
Now we're talking.
In comparison to Tezz AoB, this 4-drop lets us play another spell from hand the turn we cast him, thanks to his mox sapphire ability. Good with Bridge.
I don't think we even need a Station or another wincon, drawing all the spells let us end the turn with infinite life & an unbeatable board afaik.
The only downside is that it's a creature, slightly more vulnerable than a PW, way more than an artifact (like Time Sieve), though kind of immune to hate. Worth a try !
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I saw the spoiler for Urza and I just... can't... too much feels.
It's hilarious that we're like, sure he goes infinite with thopter sword on the spot with good redundancy, draws out entire deck, makes infinite mana and bodies and life... and we're like "oh crap, what crappy finisher do we have to include to seal the deal?"
Edit: Oh, and he's also built-in card advantage as soon as he lands, making him good to grind.
4 of these 4 force of negation as protection and 4 tezz. Bunch of 0 cmc artifacts to turn into mox sapphires and maybe just maybe a 1 of blightsteel colossus because why not lol. Modern horizons is looking sweet aha
Urza + Sai is pretty nuts, too. Any artifact you can play with cmc 2 or less = cantrip for free at the very least. Throw in sword, and that's a lot of potential free mana and card draw.
To note, all needle effects not named revoked DON'T shut down Urza's best ability. Needling him is only correct if opponents have an out to infinite life and bodies.
I’m not convinced since not being tutorable with Whir is a significant downgrade imo. Drawing multiples just sounds awful. If we didn’t have Whir as an option I’m not certain I would have played more than 1 KCI in thoptersword. I don’t think he does enough in game 1 and combo is always tougher to pull off after SB. Maybe a 1 of for some matchups.
On a separate note, I think force makes chalice a better strategy for us and is worth exploring. Maybe thoughtcast as Card draw that dodges chalice but easily pitched if needed to dump our hand. Borderpost to ramp us and still pitches to force.
Really?? He's probably at least 3 power across two bodies at 4 cmc, but a functional 3 cmc or even 2 or 1 if you've already cast some stuff like bauble, needle, bridge, or spellbomb. If you have him and nothing but him and some do-nothing artifacts, he's drawing you at least a card a turn. He's capable of drawing you into a winning board state behind a bridge, slower than Tezz yes, but arguably more versatile due to his combo potential with thopter sword or Sai, and it's not a blowout if they draw artifact removal. Compare him to Karn, Scion of Urza - both 4 cmc, Urza gives you a Karn -2 immediately, and then starts drawing cards next turn just like Karn, only his ceiling is so high. Oh, and needling him only takes away the top end part of his power. He's even somewhat useful against aggro because he puts 2 big butts on your board. Drawing multiples of planeswalkers is never ideal, but it's not terrible either.
Oh, hey! So they printed a BETTER Stoneforge Mystic for us: Goblin Engineer!
Wow, do they want thopter sword to be a thing. I'm not sure we needed all this help, though
Goblin Engineer not only tutors a sword of the meek and kindly puts it already in the yard for us, but oh, that's right, it can also grab a thopter foundry and threaten to return it next turn. Or any artifact that we run, for that matter. My initial thought was he makes Scrap Trawler a lot more appealing. Trawler was always situationally very good when he threatened to return a combo piece, or if you had the combo and 2 opals. Curving Engineer into Trawler might be a good line. The only downside to Engineer is the R in his mana cost, and while his 2 CMC is a little forgiving (meaning it's a lot easier to get a single R on turn 2 than on turn 1 playing the likes of Spire of Industry), the mana base would have to be looked at, or else just go whole hog and play Grixis or Jeskai, which isn't the end of the world.
EDIT: If they keep this up, we may need to start running Cavern for Artificer
Not sure at all how many Forces are good in the main deck, but they can pitch extra copies of Urza or Sai, or themselves if you're up against tribal and you only have aether vial to hit. You can even just cast it at the first opportunity to dump a high cmc card like urza or whir if you're just trying to get under bridge. Infect just got a ridiculously good new toy, so I'm definitely planning on jamming force main deck.
Goblin Engineer I believe means moving back down to 3 swords main-deck. I like how Engineer turns matchup-specific bad artifacts like needle or spellbomb or explosives into useful cards.
How did you feel about the dice factory experiments? I had the same thoughts originally to combo with new Karn and getting Lattice out super fast but numerous games with Cornucopia on 10 doing nothing kinda annoyed me. It was an undoubtedly powerful deck but I kept wanting to cut mana rocks for Bauble's and more prison pieces and it seemed a bit fragmented.
Narset is a sweet tech and fills the role of "searching for a non-land non-creature card" that we've been so desperate for (literally considered playing board the weatherlight). Narset was only a buck at my lgs so I'll probably take it for a spin.
I decided to forgo the dice factory build and play a version with discard until the London is reinstated, and the Narset package is space-efficient and has the potential to be good against big mana like tron or scapeshift (because they have no attackers), although it's become apparent I need a single card in my main to answer ensnaring bridge.
If and when the London comes back, I will be back on dice factory shell. It is possible to stall on drawing payoff cards, like you said, but just remember Inventors' Fair is your friend. I wouldn't play less than 3 in a dice factory shell.
Might be worth considering for the 75 somewhere
I've been making small changes, but the list has been great. My only loss was my own clear mistakes not the deck.
4 Mishra's bauble
2 nihil spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 tormods crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Damping Sphere
1 Welding Jar
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Pithing Needle
3 ensnaring bridge
4 Thopter foundry
3 sword of the meek
4 Whir of Invention
3 Thoughtseize
4 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Teferi's Puzzlebox
2 River of Tears
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
3 Island
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Academy Ruins
1 Blast Zone
3 Tolaria West
3 Tezzeret agent of bolas
3 Spellskite
3 Unmoored Ego
2 Welding Jar
2 Battle at the Bridge
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Thoughtseize
Blast zone won me 5 games today. Killing needles, leylines, planeswalkers, stoney silence etc.
Narset has been really powerful in a lot of matchups too!
Force of Negation is the new free counterspell from Horizons. MAN does it do everything we need it to do. It only hits non-creature permanents, but those are what we struggle with, especially post board. Being able to tap out turn 2 for a foundry and being able to protect it is huge. Being able to protect a whir feom counter magic as we cast it on their end step is huge. Catching a turn 2 stony, or a Karn, or a Teferi, or scapeshift, or even just an abrade... it's all good. We don't care about card disadvantage as much as a lot of other fair decks because of how thopter sword plays out.
I'm definitely jamming 4 main deck, with probably a few extra cantrips to increase the blue card concentrarion.
Edit: I've been trying to think of some good removal in Ux to shore up creature matchups. Tyrant's Scorn, Detention Sphere, and Supreme Verdict is what comes to mind so far.
Seems pretty strong.
In comparison to Tezz AoB, this 4-drop lets us play another spell from hand the turn we cast him, thanks to his mox sapphire ability. Good with Bridge.
I don't think we even need a Station or another wincon, drawing all the spells let us end the turn with infinite life & an unbeatable board afaik.
The only downside is that it's a creature, slightly more vulnerable than a PW, way more than an artifact (like Time Sieve), though kind of immune to hate. Worth a try !
It's hilarious that we're like, sure he goes infinite with thopter sword on the spot with good redundancy, draws out entire deck, makes infinite mana and bodies and life... and we're like "oh crap, what crappy finisher do we have to include to seal the deal?"
Edit: Oh, and he's also built-in card advantage as soon as he lands, making him good to grind.
To note, all needle effects not named revoked DON'T shut down Urza's best ability. Needling him is only correct if opponents have an out to infinite life and bodies.
On a separate note, I think force makes chalice a better strategy for us and is worth exploring. Maybe thoughtcast as Card draw that dodges chalice but easily pitched if needed to dump our hand. Borderpost to ramp us and still pitches to force.
Wow, do they want thopter sword to be a thing. I'm not sure we needed all this help, though
Goblin Engineer not only tutors a sword of the meek and kindly puts it already in the yard for us, but oh, that's right, it can also grab a thopter foundry and threaten to return it next turn. Or any artifact that we run, for that matter. My initial thought was he makes Scrap Trawler a lot more appealing. Trawler was always situationally very good when he threatened to return a combo piece, or if you had the combo and 2 opals. Curving Engineer into Trawler might be a good line. The only downside to Engineer is the R in his mana cost, and while his 2 CMC is a little forgiving (meaning it's a lot easier to get a single R on turn 2 than on turn 1 playing the likes of Spire of Industry), the mana base would have to be looked at, or else just go whole hog and play Grixis or Jeskai, which isn't the end of the world.
EDIT: If they keep this up, we may need to start running Cavern for Artificer
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Spellskite
1 Mind Stone
1 Damping Sphere
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Scrap Trawler
Creatures: 9
3 Goblin Engineer
2 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
3 Force of Negation
4 Whir of Invention
Land:
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Spirebluff Canal
4 Spire of Industry
1 Glimmervoid
4 Flooded Strand
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
3 Island
1 Swamp
3 Battle At the Bridge
2 Deputy of Detention
1 Fatal Push
1 Galvanic Blast
1 Torpor Orb
3 Unmoored Ego
1 Sorcerous Spellbomb
1 Force of Negation
2 Flusterstorm
Not sure at all how many Forces are good in the main deck, but they can pitch extra copies of Urza or Sai, or themselves if you're up against tribal and you only have aether vial to hit. You can even just cast it at the first opportunity to dump a high cmc card like urza or whir if you're just trying to get under bridge. Infect just got a ridiculously good new toy, so I'm definitely planning on jamming force main deck.
Goblin Engineer I believe means moving back down to 3 swords main-deck. I like how Engineer turns matchup-specific bad artifacts like needle or spellbomb or explosives into useful cards.