Revoker hits KCI (unlike needle/spyglass) and ends games in a reasonable amount of time. Most of the decks I want the effect against play very little removal after side. The question is more often than not "why play needle over revoker?" especially in the SB. I'm still a fan of a MB needle.
Because it whirs for one less and doesn't get hit with removal which they will keeping for tezz 55s or heralds?
I guess KCI is something tho - there's no other card you can name to stop them I guess? Ie pyrite spellbomb
If you can't shut out specifically KCI then they can still draw their entire deck to find nature's claim, at that point they can kill the needle and kill you
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
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I don't know if there is much to take away. My main problems were Green Red and White cards with like 7 sources of mana for each (no fetch targets), only 2 baubles, Inquisition + Fetches/Spire (seems better to play darkslick shores/glimmervoid + Thoughtseize but that's just me), mainboard Witchbane when it's not that relevant in the meta and strands your Bridges, 2 Citadels, 3 watery graves is excessive, and Seeker also seems loose as a 2x.
I found that attacking the hand with cards like Inquisition of Kozelik and Thoughtseize was not what I wanted to be doing. A lot of the format has been warped around the ability to beat decks that use these tools as disruption. For example of the top 12 decks of the formatI would only want the hand disruption against the two control decks and storm. They are okay in some other matchups like Humans or IOK against burn but the hand disruption loses most of it's value when it is no longer a universal piece of disruption. My local meta is particularly dense with Tron so I am running 3 needle effects and 2 Dampening Sphere in the 75 alongside the 4x Whir of Invention. I am also playing a Time Sieve to help race the various combo decks in my meta like Ad Nausem, Valakut and Counters Company.
I mentioned before that I was going to test [card]Tezzeret, Master Artificer[/card in modern. I did and I would not recommend that anyone else waste their time. The card itself was absurdly powerful but the shell you have to put him into was terrible. It is probably at its best in Legacy alongside sol lands and Baleful Strix.
What has been working for everyone else lately?
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My play group got hyped over the potential unbanning of Stoneforge Mystic. They convinced me that it was likely to be getting unbanned and I started theory crafting an Esper Tezzerator list just in case. I ended up really liking the way the deck looked despite almost never casting white cards. I took a bunch of inspiration from legacy stoneblade lists and this was the result:
I'm not sure it has any relevance to include speculation in a deck topic to begin with. No offense, but what if WotC unban SfM but also Preordain, and say why not unban one artifact land and ban Mox Opal ? Any list you'd post and discuss now would be irrelevant then.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
@headminerve: You are not wrong, we don't know what wizards is going to do. I thought I'd share the list I played around with in case I wasn't the only one thinking about it. Consider a thought experiment more than anything. For example, maybe we could try using Etched Champion as something similar to a True-Name Nemesis. Maybe it is time to play more main deck creatures and ditch ensnaring bridge now that Phyrexian Revoker has more applications? I don't know, but they are ideas worth considering.
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@boomforest: We just talked about it on the page before this one actually. It can hit mana abilities and now that KCI is a popular deck it can shut off KCI where Pithing Needle can not. You can also name Noble Hierarch against Humans and stars/spheres against Tron.
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But it seems like a combo deck that blows through cards with stars/spheres will draw an answer (one of 5 or 6 they run main) more often than a regular deck with an answer or two floating around. Obviously nothing works if there’s an answer but you also have to apply the logic of how much more likely they are to find an answer, whereas sphere/needle on EE is the end of the combo.
You can't replace Mox Opal with Mox Amber. They require two completely different things to activate them. Substitute them for any artifact that costs 0-1 and does something. Like Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Welding Jar, Nihil Spellbomb, Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt.
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@rickardxeed the planeswalker list on the previous page (you can search Meltiin on mtggoldfish) has no mox opals. Mox amber wouldn’t work without a signficant retooling, but it’s also important to note that budget concerns aren’t allowed on this thread, this is strictly for finding optimum competitiveness.
@boomforest - I also don't get your criticism of revoker, like, at all. Against KCI, if they're resolving a KCI, I would rather whir for revoker than sphere, though both are good. They both die to Nature's Claim and Explosives, but the digging power that KCI grants, even through a sphere, is greater than or at least roughly equal to the digging power of trying to cast and activate eggs manually while KCI is revokered. Additionally, Revoker can enter combat, which you don't seem to give any credence to. Whirring for a revoker as your opponent tries to cast a Teferi is really sweet. Or whirring to surprise-block a Kataki. Revoker also can come in against stuff like goblins and burn, where all you're trying to do is kill their early attackers.
Revoker is better than needle against those combo decks but the real question is is it good enough for a sideboard slot? I don’t think it is in this meta. UW in my experience keeps path in against us and against Jeskai it’s unplayable. It is decent against Tron and KCI and playable against CoCo but basically unplayable against the rest of the top 20 decks. Against burn, if you’re spending a turn casting this instead of developing the combo you are losing.
UW and Jeskai rising is pretty bad for us. Jeskai runs 0-2 stony and no RIP so it’s beatable but UW running 3 stony 3 RIP is horrendous. I’m relying on TS and Lilianas to combat these since they are also useful against Tron/KCI but I have to believe we have better options.
I'd love to see how that looks in the list. I feel like it can allow you to go to 4 Foundries, since even if you have to do some sacrificing before the combo is up you'll just recover value with the mentor.
I don't really like the fact that you cut Whir, but I understand UUU is hard to support on a 3 color manabase. How did the deck feel to you? I would say my biggest questions are:
Why no mana rocks?
What's the playstyle you're going for here? Definitely looks grindier to me.
TIL Tidehollow is artifact. Being able to whir into that would be sick.
@the_nobodys I’m not down on revoker, there’s just give and take with every different card and I tend to prefer our decks advantage of blanking removal. What I was questioning was revoker main, which will be a lightning rod. It’s also not a lock against KCI like it was suggested.
Yeah, UW's been tough recently. Just missed out on a 5-0 after a match against UW, thouh it was close. I may go back to playing altar of the brood in the board. I'm on a 4/2/2 split of thoughtseize/inquisiton/brutality, which really helps to resolve key spells. Muddle for decay is great, but ugh if they resolve 2 stories.
Paraselene or back to nature could be another board option to blow out UW with the way they rely on D-sphere, stony, and rip.
I guess KCI is something tho - there's no other card you can name to stop them I guess? Ie pyrite spellbomb
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
If you can't shut out specifically KCI then they can still draw their entire deck to find nature's claim, at that point they can kill the needle and kill you
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
I don't know if there is much to take away. My main problems were Green Red and White cards with like 7 sources of mana for each (no fetch targets), only 2 baubles, Inquisition + Fetches/Spire (seems better to play darkslick shores/glimmervoid + Thoughtseize but that's just me), mainboard Witchbane when it's not that relevant in the meta and strands your Bridges, 2 Citadels, 3 watery graves is excessive, and Seeker also seems loose as a 2x.
1 Breeding Pool
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Inventors' Fair
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
3 Watery Grave
Spells:
2 Collective Brutality
4 Fatal Push
4 Serum Visions
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Whir of Invention
1 Damping Sphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Mox Opal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
1 Time Seive
1 Welding Jar
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Collective Brutality
2 Damnation
1 Damping Sphere
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Herald of Anguish
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spellskite
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
I found that attacking the hand with cards like Inquisition of Kozelik and Thoughtseize was not what I wanted to be doing. A lot of the format has been warped around the ability to beat decks that use these tools as disruption. For example of the top 12 decks of the formatI would only want the hand disruption against the two control decks and storm. They are okay in some other matchups like Humans or IOK against burn but the hand disruption loses most of it's value when it is no longer a universal piece of disruption. My local meta is particularly dense with Tron so I am running 3 needle effects and 2 Dampening Sphere in the 75 alongside the 4x Whir of Invention. I am also playing a Time Sieve to help race the various combo decks in my meta like Ad Nausem, Valakut and Counters Company.
I mentioned before that I was going to test [card]Tezzeret, Master Artificer[/card in modern. I did and I would not recommend that anyone else waste their time. The card itself was absurdly powerful but the shell you have to put him into was terrible. It is probably at its best in Legacy alongside sol lands and Baleful Strix.
What has been working for everyone else lately?
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
2 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
1 Spire of Industry
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
Non-Artifacts:
2 Collective Brutality
1 Fatal Push
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Batterskull
2 Etched Champion
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Collective Brutality
2 Damping Sphere
2 Disenchant
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Spellskite
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Welding Jar
1 Wrath of God
Anyone else play with this idea?
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Also, have you guys played against SFM? It’s miserable. Modern is fine right now.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Would Mox Amber be a playable replace?
You can't replace Mox Opal with Mox Amber. They require two completely different things to activate them. Substitute them for any artifact that costs 0-1 and does something. Like Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Welding Jar, Nihil Spellbomb, Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
UW and Jeskai rising is pretty bad for us. Jeskai runs 0-2 stony and no RIP so it’s beatable but UW running 3 stony 3 RIP is horrendous. I’m relying on TS and Lilianas to combat these since they are also useful against Tron/KCI but I have to believe we have better options.
I'd love to see how that looks in the list. I feel like it can allow you to go to 4 Foundries, since even if you have to do some sacrificing before the combo is up you'll just recover value with the mentor.
I don't really like the fact that you cut Whir, but I understand UUU is hard to support on a 3 color manabase. How did the deck feel to you? I would say my biggest questions are:
Why no mana rocks?
What's the playstyle you're going for here? Definitely looks grindier to me.
TIL Tidehollow is artifact. Being able to whir into that would be sick.
Paraselene or back to nature could be another board option to blow out UW with the way they rely on D-sphere, stony, and rip.