IDK I Run 3 agent of bolas and I’m typically killing my opponents with his -4 before I ever take them out with thopters. AOB gives you this additional win con u need when people go crazy against the combo
Oh I totally agree, but the build I was testing was way off the beaten path and it was significantly less good there. In traditional builds he is an all star.
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Builds playing 4x Darksteel Citadel and largely mono-blue outside of splashing for the combo seem like a natural home. I know there is a very real chance this card is bad for modern, but I plan to test it extensively before giving up on it.
I didn't mean to be so dismissive, becuase I believe there *is* a decklist that wants this, but it's not AOB+Bridge+Thoptersword, it's probably much more like Shouta's old list, that very delicate artifact / UB control deck some of us played 5 years ago. I could see just making the substitution on the planeswalkers in his list as a starting point.
I’ve been “time trialing” a build of trav34’s list that has 4 ideas unbound and very regularly assembling the KCI knfinite combo by turn 4 with the thopter/sword being on by 3 about 90% of the time. (I think I replaced the pentad prisms and a pithing needle)
I’ve had ideas unbound/thopter and sword in my hand and I will rewind the gamestate to simulate having played each on two (or one with a mox hand) and the ideas unbound lines are always vastly more powerful. Also having them in the deck allows you for 4 more very powerful topdecks from behind a bridge.
I think in a tron/hyper aggro world us playing for fast combo with brutality push and sphere main might be a very strong spot in the meta.
Builds playing 4x Darksteel Citadel and largely mono-blue outside of splashing for the combo seem like a natural home. I know there is a very real chance this card is bad for modern, but I plan to test it extensively before giving up on it.
I didn't mean to be so dismissive, becuase I believe there *is* a decklist that wants this, but it's not AOB+Bridge+Thoptersword, it's probably much more like Shouta's old list, that very delicate artifact / UB control deck some of us played 5 years ago. I could see just making the substitution on the planeswalkers in his list as a starting point.
I love shota and I love that list, but it was just from a different era of Modern. It’s basically killtwin.dec with long grinds to beat the control decks that were in the meta. I don’t think it’s a great reference for a starting point of a shell right now.
@boomforest - In my experience, playing foundry turn 2 is better than casting ideas, right? If the goal is to assemble the combo asap, spending a turn on ideas gives your opponent a chance to draw and cast a discard spell and take the foundry. Also if you look at:
Turn 2 foundry, turn 3 ideas + discard a sword and reanimate it.
Vs.
Turn 2 ideas and discard sword, turn 3 foundry + reanimate it.
In the first example you're giving yourself an extra card to "look" at with ideas, and thus could draw a second sword with that extra card to discard. And reanimating 2 discarded swords is better than just one.
@boomforest - In my experience, playing foundry turn 2 is better than casting ideas, right? If the goal is to assemble the combo asap, spending a turn on ideas gives your opponent a chance to draw and cast a discard spell and take the foundry. Also if you look at:
Turn 2 foundry, turn 3 ideas + discard a sword and reanimate it.
Vs.
Turn 2 ideas and discard sword, turn 3 foundry + reanimate it.
In the first example you're giving yourself an extra card to "look" at with ideas, and thus could draw a second sword with that extra card to discard. And reanimating 2 discarded swords is better than just one.
Yeah, I guess getting into game lines about goldfishing is dumb. The point is that it adds another significant way to find more action for the combo, and I’d definitely advocate trying it.
Grixis attempt at the deck. I had some serious problems with the list and posed them to the streamer. Galv blast is simply a card that does more in aggressive decks and it feels super weak here. Maybe a more midrange deck with Karns and Tezz AoB to clog up the board with x/x's and 5/5's and galv to kill the opponent quickly. There are also likely too many basics and the U/R fast land would be reasonable. Abrade with Liquimetal coating is kinda cool and I'm interested to see if anything else could be done with that. Saheeli Rai doing infinite -2's on herself after becoming an artifact is hilarious, but it requires some investment in Altar of the Brood to do anything relevant. Liquimetal + Abrade/Ancient Grudge could absolutely crush decks like Tron so maybe that's worth looking at.
I've dabbled in Jeskai and Grixis Saheeli/Coating quite a lot (with the thopter combo thrown in). It's only OK in certain metas. Too much aggro or Jund, and the combo is trash.
I've been playing a Sultai list again, eschewing the ideas unbound for a couple of Muddle the Mixture just to try. Got a 2-3, 4-1, and 5-0 with it, but as usual, it's always matchup dependent. The muddles are... hard to evaluate. As a tutor, they're pretty slow and can't fetch ensnaring bridge. However, they can get Abrupt Decay out of the board and can't be countered. Compared to Ideas, I'd say they're slightly less powerful but obviously more flexible because they're a 2 cmc counterspell as well. I dunno, not wild about them. On the other hand, I've really been liking 6 discard spells, with the 4 full thoughtseize.
I actually have some Shred Memory in the mail to test with in the board. It's much easier to cast and can tutor for a combo piece otherwise. It's actually decent against quite a few decks ATM even in its primary mode ( + it's easier to cast than Muddle ). What do you think?
I don't really get what you're saying about shred memory being easier to cast. Getting BB in our primarily U based deck is much harder than getting UU. Its secondary, non-tutor mode is more niche as well.
I don't really get what you're saying about shred memory being easier to cast. Getting BB in our primarily U based deck is much harder than getting UU. Its secondary, non-tutor mode is more niche as well.
It might be easier to CAST 1B then UU, but you are right. Most of the time you don't plan to cast that card.
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Got to try 2 Karns and 2 Muddle the Mixture. Both felt fantastic and I think that's what I will be playing from now on. Muddle is an absolutely reasonable mainbord answer to Kolaghan's/Cryptic... or it finds a copy of the combo. After SB it tutors Abrupt Decays. Karn does something similar and I find the kind of card advantage more useful (compared to being brainstorm locked by Jace or finding more copies of unneeded artifacts with Tezz). I didn't even go all in on UW like I'd been planning, just good ol UBg with 2 Thoughtseize/2 Brutality/2 Push. Karn is also potentially better against Tron as it creates artifacts rather than converting artifacts which is relevant vs big Karn, anddd it doesn't die to Ugin.
Edit: The construct even towers over an Etched Champion which has been one of the ways we can get punked out by Affinity.
I have been running this deck for a few weeks now, playing at casual Modern tournaments at my two LGSs, and at Modern FNMs. I have tested a few lists and have been slowly building up the deck. I love it so far, and always have, as I started playing a very janky version several years back when I first started playing constructed properly. I'm still borrowing Mox Opals and Ensnaring bridges as I simply don't have the money to drop $100+ on a single card, and as I am Australian many cards are overpriced thanks to USD -> AUD conversion.
That said, the deck is great and I've been having a blast. I adore the toolbox/prison style that doesn't make the enemy feel helpless but isn't as rude as regular control in messing with their board. I am currently running this list, though it is subject to change; I am not always satisfied with Inquisition and would probably prefer collective brutality for the times I get an early bridge and desperately need to dump my hand:
Game 1: I start off with inquisition and dump a bob. He then proceeds to draw another bob after playing a goyf and i durdle around a bit hoping for an out. I remove his goyf after it gets a lot of damage in and at that point I'm pretty dead.
Boarded out Inquisitions and a few misc pieces, some Tezzs
Boarded in Pithing, GY artifacts, and herald/padeem for the early game beatdown or lategame immunity since he probably boarded out creature removal.
Game 2: I start off fairly fast and slam a T3 bridge with some other misc stuff out. It holds back his goyf and I push a bob, which he proceeds to immediately replace again. He eventually gets a bunch of stuff out and then Kcommands the bridge for lethal. I got shredded both games, but he was mainboarding artifact hate so it wasnt a surprise.
I dont like Jund. 0-1 record
Round 2: vs Mono black devotion
Game 1: he has a slow start with a few creatures which I'm able to remove with pushes. He then dumps a whip of erebos, and I draw a whir and slam a bridge down. He has no artifact hate so he is stuck with aboard full of creatures slowly hurting him and drawing me extra cards (basically was the mono-black devotion of standard from Theros block). I keep gaining incremental advantage and just slowly topdeck. I name whip of erebos with pithing needle which was irrelevant in the end. Im on pretty low life but inventors fair brings me back up. I then get thoptersword up and starting going wild with tokens, gaining life. I nearly die to a Gary who does some 10+ dmg to me and he gains 10. I topdeck a whir and go for time sieve and go infinite to win.
Dont recall board because the opponent's deck wasnt that threatening bar the Gary which could hit me under bridge.
Game 2: He goes fast and slams a few creatures to get early dmg in. I slam a bridge from my hand turn 3 and he just gets depressed all over again (bridge seems to do that to aggro decks). I then sit around for a bit doing things while hes stuck not doing much. Im gaining advantage from his creatures and he tries to go for a pack rat strategy. I have plenty of pushes though and i remove all the dire threats. He then lands a Gary at some point and puts me down to 1 life, with no way to finish, and my bridge still in play. Next turn i spam a few artifacts down and Tezz nuke him for 18 dmg, which isnt quite enough to kill him. He does down to 4. Im on a comfortable 19 life and he misses the Gary topdeck by one card after i swing for lethal with some thopters.
It wasnt really a competitve deck , more just leftovers from standard. 1-1 record.
Round 3: vs UB Mill.
Game 1: I have no idea what to expect but I go first. I crack a polluted delta for a watery untapped and inquisition him, since i needed as much info and manafixing as possible. Turns out hes playing mill and keeps a dodgy hand but with two archive traps. I am milled for 26 on turn 1, but doesnt hit anything too serious. My inquisition finds a cantrip or something. He is mana/spelllocked most of the game and I'm able to Tezz him for lethal at the last moment before dying. It was incredibly close though, as he didnt land any hedron crabs or mesmeric orbs.
Boarded out most removal and bridges, board in herald, emrakul andthe polymorph package for extra spice.
Game 2: I draw a relatively ok hand with no fetches, protecting me from archive trap. I get a thopter foundry and make a couple of thopters with random artifacts. I then turn 4 polymorph the thopter into a herald - score! it starts eating his hand and i swing in for 5. hes down to 9 life thanks to his fetch shocking with hedron crab. He then aggressively mills me and I almost lose - I then hit emrakul and it resets my yard. He misses his surgicals/extirpates which he told me he boarded in. I get a second life and goes to my turn. I topdeck a second polymorph and trade the herald for emrakul. He doesnt have enough mill to kill me next turn and no response to emrakul, so he concedes and I win.
Was a great matchup and highlight of the night was slamming my emrakul in the jankiest boardstate playing *tezzerator*. my friends got a good laugh outta that one. I am now infamous for my spicy sideboard tech. Polymorph saved the day, unironically. I would not have gotten any decent threats without the initial herald. definitely consider dropping a few morphs but keeping at least 1 morph and emmy for board for weird matchups like this.
2-1 record.
Round 4: vs Mono red goblins
Game 1: I dont know what to expect and have only serum visions turn 1 play after a mull to 6. Im on the draw and he gets a nut hand - cavern of souls naming goblin, exile simian spirit guide, drops a warren instigator. Passes to me, I have no response and have to take a hit. He drops 2 goblin chieftains and hits me for unholy damage. My turn, i draw some removal, but its not enough to keep me alive. I get nuked for like 15 dmg turn 3 and i lose. Wild deck.
Board out slow stuff like tezz and witchbane and GY hate, bring in lots of removal and herald/padeem for any artifact hate and a quicker game.
Game 2: I have a decent hand with a bridge and I keep, but not enough fast mana. I slam a bridge turn 3 after he has a slightly slower start. He hits me with warren instigator turn 3 through my bridge and slams a chieftain and another one that makes 1/1s and gets +1/+0 for each attacking goblon. I go to my turn and Im able to dump the rest of my hand, passing with 0 or 1 cards in hand and him being unable to attack with anything. He pulls an abrade or something and nukes the bridge and swings for a billion. I lose turn 4.
That deck was bogus and a harder matchup than any other deck that night. I even had a better time against (and beat) 5c humans 2 nights before.
2-2 record.
I placed 10th out of 16 - the results being:
1. Affinity
2. Merfolk
3. Humans
4. Aforementioned Goblins
5. Aforementioned Jund
6. Living End
7. Burn
8. G Tron
9. Icy Moon (Blue moon)
10. Me on Tezzerator
11. GR Tron
12. Amulet Titan
13. Jeskai Control
14. GR Tron
15. Aforementioned Mill
16. Aforementioned Mono Black Devotion
So basically I lost to 2 of the best decks and beat 2 of the worst decks. My matchups are pretty ok, lucky that i managed to dodge all 3 tron players (one of which was a friend who was mainboarding 4 abrade just for me and the affinity guy who is a friend too).
So for some discussion, what do people think of my list? any advice? I have a few notes:
- Serum visions is alright but there are many times when im low on mana or topdecking and id rather dig deep to find key things (ala Tezz +1 or ancient stirrings). also when on low mana I need to dump my hand and serum visions does the opposite. Also the lack of initial scry is frustrating, sometimes drawing me an irrelevant card which then increases bridge hand count and i need to wait 1-2 turns to get the piece i kept on top. I do love the low mana cost though.
- Im not sure about inquisition - it sometimes did work but more often than not their hand is too redundant and it is basically meaningless, and topdecking it late game isnt that good when im looking to either dig or get threats on my turn to then dump at EOT for bridge, and the opponent usually has a full hand due to unplayable cards due to bridge etc.
- The mana in this deck is still a bit slow. I have yet to be able to slam a turn 2 bridge, and getting turn 1 mox online is incredibly rare. turn 3 whir for bridge is rare but still happens occasionally. I am considering talismans as well.
- I rarely keep the mana on pentads and they only really present value when im trying to beef up my artifact count, manafix with say 2 basics and a citadel/fair, or whir. otherwise i usually play them and same turn use both mana to dump something else from my hand.
- I was initially running spellskites but found they were worthless game one because opponents were often running little artifact hate and lots of creature hate, making them a magnet. Games 2/3 they were a bit better when there is less creature removal but they basically accomplish what a welding jar could, but at the price of 2 extra mana, 2 life, and on a body that attracts removal. What do people think of them?
- I was also running 4x glint-nest cranes but found they hurt the artifact/spell count significantly and often didnt get anything relevant. They also are 2 mana which is a valuable CMC (2) which we have lots of already. Turn 2 is usually devoted to dropping a pentad or other relevant 2 mana artifact like damping sphere or something. They also die to bolt and a lot of relevant creatures. What do people think of them?
- I love 4x Tezzeret mainboard and only board him out in the faster matchups. He puts a lot of work in and often just wins the game through advantage into a 20 damage nuke.
- How do you guys deal with the ultra-fast matchups like goblins? even a bridge isnt enough and early on the deck feels so prone to hate in games 2/3. a simple grudge/abrade just loses us the game. Other matchups I hate are jund and mardu pyromancer which are very prevalent in my local meta. Id say in order of frequency, highest to lowest, is Mardu Pyromancer > Aggro (merfolk, goblins, humans, affinity) > Tron > Jund > combo (storm, living end, ad-naus, KCI) > Control > Jank. I suffer lots of artifact hate thanks to netdeckers who just copy artifact hate lists online, when in reality me and maybe 2 others play heavy artifact decks (Im the only tezzerator, others play affinity). Someone used to play lantern control a lot ( but now plays burn/jund) which got artifacts hated out of the meta, so that could be fallout from that still.
- Dont @ me about my spicy emrakul polymorph sideboard tech. It wins me games.
- Ratchet bomb mainboard really only comes out for mardu pyromancer for token nuking or for affinity for cheerio-nuking. Witchbane orb mainboard is a lifesaver in response to, say, gifts ungiven, causing it to fizzle, or control/burn if the game draws out. Witchbane delayed a JTMS ult on me behind a bridge for a few turns. That was a 35 minute game (UW control matchup)
- Im really happy with inventor's fair. Its like another whir but great for lategame. Fetching thoptersword is usually a win. However, it is the fast matchups where I barely get to slam a bridge and still lose soon after that gets me. Bridge seems to be the heaviest carrier in the deck and without it we are mincemeat.
- Considering some collective brutalities to replace inquisitions to help dump hands and remove creatures/gain relevant life. Thoughts?
- Is it worth investing in the crucible of worlds/ghost quarter/tolaria west/expedition map package? It seems like yet another combo we are jamming in and feels too slow against relevant matchups (tron). Is it worth taking up all those slots?
- Time sieve is an odd one - it ends the game relevantly in cases where they can interact with us under the bridge but otherwise im very disappointed to see it early game as it is a 2 mana dead artifact, at best a conditional talisman for whir.
Thanks everyone for the read and the advice. Ive been lurking this thread for a while now and finally decided to post after playing a bit with the deck.
I always liked muddle as a one or two of but usually end up cutting it for more collective brutality. It counters shatterstorm and tutors decay for stony, can also tutor brutality to kill a meddling mage or Thalia etc. Can be an awkward draw under a bridge.
It does play decent with Pentads as you can tap out for prism and pass with two counters on it allowing you to muddle counter if necessary
You need three blue to whir so two for muddle is not a problem at all.
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* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Some initial thoughts on your list:
You mentioned Serum Visions felt lackluster, you couldn’t Whir of Invention for Ensnaring Bridge on turn 3 as often as you would have liked, mana was too slow and you have trouble fending off the fast matchups. I think all of these problems are connected and easily solvable for you. It is your mana. You only have 15 ways to make blue outside of Pentad Prism and Mox Opal. It is pretty standard to count non-land sources as half sources so with those you now have ~ 18 blue sources. You need to be closer to 22. You are also a few sources short of being able to consistency hit land drops for your 3 and 4 cmc cards I suggest adding a Breeding Pool and 3x Blue Fetches. Then cut all of your colorless lands. As strong as the utility lands we have access to are, they inhibit you from casting Whir of Invention, Thopter Foundry, Time Sieve and Pentad Prism on time. They also prevent you from casting double 1 CMC cards on turn 2.
Also try to find a way to increase your combo count to 4/3 or at the very least 3/2. Thopter Sword is literally the only way to win outside of a Tezzeret ultimate and you want to be able to find ASAP in a lot of matchups. Getting the combo into play by T3 can end most Aggro decks when you are on the play and beat most fair decks unless they have an immediate answer.
I won’t @ you over the Emrakul/Polymorph sideboard plan but don’t remember it is a three card combo that is vulnerable to removal that has a large mana investment and may be for nothing when you are relying on Ensnaring Bridge to keep them locked up. Also, don’t board in the Herald when you bring the combo in lol.
If you are commonly losing to artifact spot removal it is because you artifact threat density is too low. Meaning you have only a few artifact they really care to kill. In your case that is 5. 2 Ensnaring Bridge and 3 Thopter Foundry. They can ignore everything else and still win the game. This is why prioritizing 4x Foundry and 3x Ensnaring Bridge is so important. Jund should be favorable game 1 because they don’t have enough removal to stop the combo + Ensnaring Bridge and you only need to combo for one turn before they can’t recover.
I would recommend against Crucible of Worlds because it is too slow and un-impactful. Also, Play another Dampening Sphere in your sideboard to help with Tron and combo. The card is incredible out of our sideboard.
Hope this helps!
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Racing's points are all great. You need lands that make blue. You need 4 thopter foundries, and at least 2 swords. I play 4/4 and haven't really looked back.
I would say 4 fatal push is too much removal, and that slot would be better as 2-3 brutality. Also, don't let bridge fool you - it's not great vs a lot of matches, like Jund. You're much better off keeping a hand with discard and a sword, so that you can topdeck a foundry or whir down the road and spam thopters before they remove the foundry.
Is Muddle the Mixture now a standard part of the deck? I see a lot of the big names around here running it. I'm assuming that if it is a mainstay, going up on 2-CMC cards like that new hate artifact in core 19 would probably be beneficial.
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Oh I totally agree, but the build I was testing was way off the beaten path and it was significantly less good there. In traditional builds he is an all star.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
I didn't mean to be so dismissive, becuase I believe there *is* a decklist that wants this, but it's not AOB+Bridge+Thoptersword, it's probably much more like Shouta's old list, that very delicate artifact / UB control deck some of us played 5 years ago. I could see just making the substitution on the planeswalkers in his list as a starting point.
I’ve had ideas unbound/thopter and sword in my hand and I will rewind the gamestate to simulate having played each on two (or one with a mox hand) and the ideas unbound lines are always vastly more powerful. Also having them in the deck allows you for 4 more very powerful topdecks from behind a bridge.
I think in a tron/hyper aggro world us playing for fast combo with brutality push and sphere main might be a very strong spot in the meta.
I love shota and I love that list, but it was just from a different era of Modern. It’s basically killtwin.dec with long grinds to beat the control decks that were in the meta. I don’t think it’s a great reference for a starting point of a shell right now.
Turn 2 foundry, turn 3 ideas + discard a sword and reanimate it.
Vs.
Turn 2 ideas and discard sword, turn 3 foundry + reanimate it.
In the first example you're giving yourself an extra card to "look" at with ideas, and thus could draw a second sword with that extra card to discard. And reanimating 2 discarded swords is better than just one.
Yeah, I guess getting into game lines about goldfishing is dumb. The point is that it adds another significant way to find more action for the combo, and I’d definitely advocate trying it.
Grixis attempt at the deck. I had some serious problems with the list and posed them to the streamer. Galv blast is simply a card that does more in aggressive decks and it feels super weak here. Maybe a more midrange deck with Karns and Tezz AoB to clog up the board with x/x's and 5/5's and galv to kill the opponent quickly. There are also likely too many basics and the U/R fast land would be reasonable. Abrade with Liquimetal coating is kinda cool and I'm interested to see if anything else could be done with that. Saheeli Rai doing infinite -2's on herself after becoming an artifact is hilarious, but it requires some investment in Altar of the Brood to do anything relevant. Liquimetal + Abrade/Ancient Grudge could absolutely crush decks like Tron so maybe that's worth looking at.
I've been playing a Sultai list again, eschewing the ideas unbound for a couple of Muddle the Mixture just to try. Got a 2-3, 4-1, and 5-0 with it, but as usual, it's always matchup dependent. The muddles are... hard to evaluate. As a tutor, they're pretty slow and can't fetch ensnaring bridge. However, they can get Abrupt Decay out of the board and can't be countered. Compared to Ideas, I'd say they're slightly less powerful but obviously more flexible because they're a 2 cmc counterspell as well. I dunno, not wild about them. On the other hand, I've really been liking 6 discard spells, with the 4 full thoughtseize.
2 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Pithing Needle
2 Chormatic Star
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
1 Damping Sphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
Sorceries: 11
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Serum Visions
2 Collective Brutality
2 Muddle the Mixture
4 Whir of Invention
Land: 21
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hinterland Harbor
4 Island
1 Swamp
2 Field of Ruin
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Extirpate
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
3 Battle at the Bridge
1 Beast Within
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Here's my current list:
It might be easier to CAST 1B then UU, but you are right. Most of the time you don't plan to cast that card.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Edit: The construct even towers over an Etched Champion which has been one of the ways we can get punked out by Affinity.
I have been running this deck for a few weeks now, playing at casual Modern tournaments at my two LGSs, and at Modern FNMs. I have tested a few lists and have been slowly building up the deck. I love it so far, and always have, as I started playing a very janky version several years back when I first started playing constructed properly. I'm still borrowing Mox Opals and Ensnaring bridges as I simply don't have the money to drop $100+ on a single card, and as I am Australian many cards are overpriced thanks to USD -> AUD conversion.
That said, the deck is great and I've been having a blast. I adore the toolbox/prison style that doesn't make the enemy feel helpless but isn't as rude as regular control in messing with their board. I am currently running this list, though it is subject to change; I am not always satisfied with Inquisition and would probably prefer collective brutality for the times I get an early bridge and desperately need to dump my hand:
For FNM, i have a brief report:
Round 1: vs Jund
Game 1: I start off with inquisition and dump a bob. He then proceeds to draw another bob after playing a goyf and i durdle around a bit hoping for an out. I remove his goyf after it gets a lot of damage in and at that point I'm pretty dead.
Boarded out Inquisitions and a few misc pieces, some Tezzs
Boarded in Pithing, GY artifacts, and herald/padeem for the early game beatdown or lategame immunity since he probably boarded out creature removal.
Game 2: I start off fairly fast and slam a T3 bridge with some other misc stuff out. It holds back his goyf and I push a bob, which he proceeds to immediately replace again. He eventually gets a bunch of stuff out and then Kcommands the bridge for lethal. I got shredded both games, but he was mainboarding artifact hate so it wasnt a surprise.
I dont like Jund. 0-1 record
Round 2: vs Mono black devotion
Game 1: he has a slow start with a few creatures which I'm able to remove with pushes. He then dumps a whip of erebos, and I draw a whir and slam a bridge down. He has no artifact hate so he is stuck with aboard full of creatures slowly hurting him and drawing me extra cards (basically was the mono-black devotion of standard from Theros block). I keep gaining incremental advantage and just slowly topdeck. I name whip of erebos with pithing needle which was irrelevant in the end. Im on pretty low life but inventors fair brings me back up. I then get thoptersword up and starting going wild with tokens, gaining life. I nearly die to a Gary who does some 10+ dmg to me and he gains 10. I topdeck a whir and go for time sieve and go infinite to win.
Dont recall board because the opponent's deck wasnt that threatening bar the Gary which could hit me under bridge.
Game 2: He goes fast and slams a few creatures to get early dmg in. I slam a bridge from my hand turn 3 and he just gets depressed all over again (bridge seems to do that to aggro decks). I then sit around for a bit doing things while hes stuck not doing much. Im gaining advantage from his creatures and he tries to go for a pack rat strategy. I have plenty of pushes though and i remove all the dire threats. He then lands a Gary at some point and puts me down to 1 life, with no way to finish, and my bridge still in play. Next turn i spam a few artifacts down and Tezz nuke him for 18 dmg, which isnt quite enough to kill him. He does down to 4. Im on a comfortable 19 life and he misses the Gary topdeck by one card after i swing for lethal with some thopters.
It wasnt really a competitve deck , more just leftovers from standard. 1-1 record.
Round 3: vs UB Mill.
Game 1: I have no idea what to expect but I go first. I crack a polluted delta for a watery untapped and inquisition him, since i needed as much info and manafixing as possible. Turns out hes playing mill and keeps a dodgy hand but with two archive traps. I am milled for 26 on turn 1, but doesnt hit anything too serious. My inquisition finds a cantrip or something. He is mana/spelllocked most of the game and I'm able to Tezz him for lethal at the last moment before dying. It was incredibly close though, as he didnt land any hedron crabs or mesmeric orbs.
Boarded out most removal and bridges, board in herald, emrakul andthe polymorph package for extra spice.
Game 2: I draw a relatively ok hand with no fetches, protecting me from archive trap. I get a thopter foundry and make a couple of thopters with random artifacts. I then turn 4 polymorph the thopter into a herald - score! it starts eating his hand and i swing in for 5. hes down to 9 life thanks to his fetch shocking with hedron crab. He then aggressively mills me and I almost lose - I then hit emrakul and it resets my yard. He misses his surgicals/extirpates which he told me he boarded in. I get a second life and goes to my turn. I topdeck a second polymorph and trade the herald for emrakul. He doesnt have enough mill to kill me next turn and no response to emrakul, so he concedes and I win.
Was a great matchup and highlight of the night was slamming my emrakul in the jankiest boardstate playing *tezzerator*. my friends got a good laugh outta that one. I am now infamous for my spicy sideboard tech. Polymorph saved the day, unironically. I would not have gotten any decent threats without the initial herald. definitely consider dropping a few morphs but keeping at least 1 morph and emmy for board for weird matchups like this.
2-1 record.
Round 4: vs Mono red goblins
Game 1: I dont know what to expect and have only serum visions turn 1 play after a mull to 6. Im on the draw and he gets a nut hand - cavern of souls naming goblin, exile simian spirit guide, drops a warren instigator. Passes to me, I have no response and have to take a hit. He drops 2 goblin chieftains and hits me for unholy damage. My turn, i draw some removal, but its not enough to keep me alive. I get nuked for like 15 dmg turn 3 and i lose. Wild deck.
Board out slow stuff like tezz and witchbane and GY hate, bring in lots of removal and herald/padeem for any artifact hate and a quicker game.
Game 2: I have a decent hand with a bridge and I keep, but not enough fast mana. I slam a bridge turn 3 after he has a slightly slower start. He hits me with warren instigator turn 3 through my bridge and slams a chieftain and another one that makes 1/1s and gets +1/+0 for each attacking goblon. I go to my turn and Im able to dump the rest of my hand, passing with 0 or 1 cards in hand and him being unable to attack with anything. He pulls an abrade or something and nukes the bridge and swings for a billion. I lose turn 4.
That deck was bogus and a harder matchup than any other deck that night. I even had a better time against (and beat) 5c humans 2 nights before.
2-2 record.
I placed 10th out of 16 - the results being:
1. Affinity
2. Merfolk
3. Humans
4. Aforementioned Goblins
5. Aforementioned Jund
6. Living End
7. Burn
8. G Tron
9. Icy Moon (Blue moon)
10. Me on Tezzerator
11. GR Tron
12. Amulet Titan
13. Jeskai Control
14. GR Tron
15. Aforementioned Mill
16. Aforementioned Mono Black Devotion
So basically I lost to 2 of the best decks and beat 2 of the worst decks. My matchups are pretty ok, lucky that i managed to dodge all 3 tron players (one of which was a friend who was mainboarding 4 abrade just for me and the affinity guy who is a friend too).
So for some discussion, what do people think of my list? any advice? I have a few notes:
- Serum visions is alright but there are many times when im low on mana or topdecking and id rather dig deep to find key things (ala Tezz +1 or ancient stirrings). also when on low mana I need to dump my hand and serum visions does the opposite. Also the lack of initial scry is frustrating, sometimes drawing me an irrelevant card which then increases bridge hand count and i need to wait 1-2 turns to get the piece i kept on top. I do love the low mana cost though.
- Im not sure about inquisition - it sometimes did work but more often than not their hand is too redundant and it is basically meaningless, and topdecking it late game isnt that good when im looking to either dig or get threats on my turn to then dump at EOT for bridge, and the opponent usually has a full hand due to unplayable cards due to bridge etc.
- The mana in this deck is still a bit slow. I have yet to be able to slam a turn 2 bridge, and getting turn 1 mox online is incredibly rare. turn 3 whir for bridge is rare but still happens occasionally. I am considering talismans as well.
- I rarely keep the mana on pentads and they only really present value when im trying to beef up my artifact count, manafix with say 2 basics and a citadel/fair, or whir. otherwise i usually play them and same turn use both mana to dump something else from my hand.
- I was initially running spellskites but found they were worthless game one because opponents were often running little artifact hate and lots of creature hate, making them a magnet. Games 2/3 they were a bit better when there is less creature removal but they basically accomplish what a welding jar could, but at the price of 2 extra mana, 2 life, and on a body that attracts removal. What do people think of them?
- I was also running 4x glint-nest cranes but found they hurt the artifact/spell count significantly and often didnt get anything relevant. They also are 2 mana which is a valuable CMC (2) which we have lots of already. Turn 2 is usually devoted to dropping a pentad or other relevant 2 mana artifact like damping sphere or something. They also die to bolt and a lot of relevant creatures. What do people think of them?
- I love 4x Tezzeret mainboard and only board him out in the faster matchups. He puts a lot of work in and often just wins the game through advantage into a 20 damage nuke.
- How do you guys deal with the ultra-fast matchups like goblins? even a bridge isnt enough and early on the deck feels so prone to hate in games 2/3. a simple grudge/abrade just loses us the game. Other matchups I hate are jund and mardu pyromancer which are very prevalent in my local meta. Id say in order of frequency, highest to lowest, is Mardu Pyromancer > Aggro (merfolk, goblins, humans, affinity) > Tron > Jund > combo (storm, living end, ad-naus, KCI) > Control > Jank. I suffer lots of artifact hate thanks to netdeckers who just copy artifact hate lists online, when in reality me and maybe 2 others play heavy artifact decks (Im the only tezzerator, others play affinity). Someone used to play lantern control a lot ( but now plays burn/jund) which got artifacts hated out of the meta, so that could be fallout from that still.
- Dont @ me about my spicy emrakul polymorph sideboard tech. It wins me games.
- Ratchet bomb mainboard really only comes out for mardu pyromancer for token nuking or for affinity for cheerio-nuking. Witchbane orb mainboard is a lifesaver in response to, say, gifts ungiven, causing it to fizzle, or control/burn if the game draws out. Witchbane delayed a JTMS ult on me behind a bridge for a few turns. That was a 35 minute game (UW control matchup)
- Im really happy with inventor's fair. Its like another whir but great for lategame. Fetching thoptersword is usually a win. However, it is the fast matchups where I barely get to slam a bridge and still lose soon after that gets me. Bridge seems to be the heaviest carrier in the deck and without it we are mincemeat.
- Considering some collective brutalities to replace inquisitions to help dump hands and remove creatures/gain relevant life. Thoughts?
- Is it worth investing in the crucible of worlds/ghost quarter/tolaria west/expedition map package? It seems like yet another combo we are jamming in and feels too slow against relevant matchups (tron). Is it worth taking up all those slots?
- Time sieve is an odd one - it ends the game relevantly in cases where they can interact with us under the bridge but otherwise im very disappointed to see it early game as it is a 2 mana dead artifact, at best a conditional talisman for whir.
Thanks everyone for the read and the advice. Ive been lurking this thread for a while now and finally decided to post after playing a bit with the deck.
It does play decent with Pentads as you can tap out for prism and pass with two counters on it allowing you to muddle counter if necessary
You need three blue to whir so two for muddle is not a problem at all.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Some initial thoughts on your list:
You mentioned Serum Visions felt lackluster, you couldn’t Whir of Invention for Ensnaring Bridge on turn 3 as often as you would have liked, mana was too slow and you have trouble fending off the fast matchups. I think all of these problems are connected and easily solvable for you. It is your mana. You only have 15 ways to make blue outside of Pentad Prism and Mox Opal. It is pretty standard to count non-land sources as half sources so with those you now have ~ 18 blue sources. You need to be closer to 22. You are also a few sources short of being able to consistency hit land drops for your 3 and 4 cmc cards I suggest adding a Breeding Pool and 3x Blue Fetches. Then cut all of your colorless lands. As strong as the utility lands we have access to are, they inhibit you from casting Whir of Invention, Thopter Foundry, Time Sieve and Pentad Prism on time. They also prevent you from casting double 1 CMC cards on turn 2.
Also try to find a way to increase your combo count to 4/3 or at the very least 3/2. Thopter Sword is literally the only way to win outside of a Tezzeret ultimate and you want to be able to find ASAP in a lot of matchups. Getting the combo into play by T3 can end most Aggro decks when you are on the play and beat most fair decks unless they have an immediate answer.
I won’t @ you over the Emrakul/Polymorph sideboard plan but don’t remember it is a three card combo that is vulnerable to removal that has a large mana investment and may be for nothing when you are relying on Ensnaring Bridge to keep them locked up. Also, don’t board in the Herald when you bring the combo in lol.
If you are commonly losing to artifact spot removal it is because you artifact threat density is too low. Meaning you have only a few artifact they really care to kill. In your case that is 5. 2 Ensnaring Bridge and 3 Thopter Foundry. They can ignore everything else and still win the game. This is why prioritizing 4x Foundry and 3x Ensnaring Bridge is so important. Jund should be favorable game 1 because they don’t have enough removal to stop the combo + Ensnaring Bridge and you only need to combo for one turn before they can’t recover.
I would recommend against Crucible of Worlds because it is too slow and un-impactful. Also, Play another Dampening Sphere in your sideboard to help with Tron and combo. The card is incredible out of our sideboard.
Hope this helps!
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
I would say 4 fatal push is too much removal, and that slot would be better as 2-3 brutality. Also, don't let bridge fool you - it's not great vs a lot of matches, like Jund. You're much better off keeping a hand with discard and a sword, so that you can topdeck a foundry or whir down the road and spam thopters before they remove the foundry.
U/B Faeries
U/B Tezzerator