I've been tweaking my list since I last posted and really really like playing with thenobodys list as a starting point. The one card that didn't fit for me though was [Ideas Unbound]. It was always clunky and seemed to be more of a pain than anything else. And since I got rid of it, I got rid of Lingering Souls, which I liked but wasn't needed without IU. But IU was meant to provide value - between Whir which is awesome and Steelshaper's Gift which was somewhat useful, I needed another tutor of sorts. Too bad Enlightened Tutor isn't available in Modern...
... but after a lot of testing I did find a replacement. [Reshape]. Yes, it is a very crappy Whir but it does what Whir does, puts the piece on the board instead of your hand. The sorcery speed and high casting cost (usually of 4) plus the sacrifice artifact clause make it much less appealing so I only include it as a 2-of. But for now, that satisfies my need for a replacement
I've done friendly testing versus the top decks. Here's my current testing record:
Humans - 5-0 (getting combo online neutralizes them big time)
Hollow One 4-1 (the one match loss was due to 2 Hollow Ones of turn 1.... ok, enjoy the nut draw)
Jund 3-2 (even with 4 Welding Jars you can still get Junded)
Tron 4-1 (Damping Sphere + Tez/Ensoul beats make the wins possible. But each match I won went to 3 games.
Affinity - 5-0 (unless they get a nut draw, I don't think they have a chance)
Bogles - 5-0 (bridge + Welding Jars backup, they don't have much artifact destruction)
Colorless Eldrazi - 4-1 (hope they don't get Temple, Temple. Watch out for Chalice on 2, then you need Whir/Reshape to win)
Eldrazi Tron - 4-1 (similar)
Hatebears (5-0, stupid Thalia)
UW Control (3-2, lots of ways to get rid of things, plus i made mistakes)
Valakut (5-0, please... through the breach with whir mana up? Eldrazi Titans need not apply with Ensnaring Bridge)
Burn (?, didn't have time to test, 2 Navigator's Compass will help in matchup)
Storm (?, didn't have time to test)
Grixis Death Shadow (?, didn't have time to test)
same for any other decks like Merfolk, Living End, KCI etc.
I love having lots of 0 cost artifacts to throw out, with no Collective Brutality it makes managing my Bridges fairly easy.
Even with only 22 lands I sometimes felt like I kept drawing them. I was hiding behind Bridge versus humans one match and drew 4 lands in a row. I had a Mishra's Bauble, but I always seem to forget to crack them - I love having a board of lots of artifacts to be ready for Tezzeret or Reshape. So something to keep in mind, Baubles can and should be cracked more often.
Anyways I still have more testing to do and still have to get the Mox Opals so I won't be playing with real cards anytime soon.
Does anyone else have any insights or interesting cards we should be looking at?
I have done a bunch of testing with reshape and I also like it a lot. It works very well with prism for a turn 3 bridge. I also like prisms. I see many people are not using them anymore. And are going even thinner on walkers. The 2 in conjunction work amazing together especially with the inclusion of reshape.
@Jacememoryloss - Thanks for trying out the tech and doing your own testing. I actually thought I would play with Ideas Unbound for a while and pull back from wanting to play it, but it's held up really well for me in my testing. The ability to draw 3 on turn 2 and keep what you need has been almost always useful, even when I'm not binning swords/souls. I think part of its success for me is that we're a toolbox deck, so binning stuff like sphere, relics, needle, or jar is oftentimes a no-brainer game one. Don't get me wrong, though, you're definitely right that it is a clunky spell. Learning when to play it and when to hold it for late game is really a complicated task.
I do think cranial plating is wrong in a deck with 0 creatures. If you have foundry out, you're never using gift to search for plating, you're always going to get sword. If you already have sword, you need to then spend 4 mana (W for gift, 2 for plating, 1 for equip), which represents the loss of 4 thopters that could have been produced. So you're sacrificing 4 life, in this scenario, and 4 points of thopter damage to make 1 of your thopters much bigger. If you have a bridge down, this thopter cannot swing unless you spend BB. You're also opening yourself up to more loss if the thopter gets bolted, etc. Just my 2 cents.
I have to agree w @the_nobodys. I obviously think Tezzeret and prisms are fun and rad, but humans has pushed narrow spell-based power out of the format. They just freebooter/meddling mage you into feeling really bad.
I think something will happen to humans to tame it a bit, it seems a smidge too fast/devastating. Not sure if that’s a hate card in a set or a ban, but it doesn’t feel sustainable.
Til then I’m more keen on a deck with a lot of redundant ways to outrun/work around a meddling mage on your key card (and phantasmal image on your out, and image on your next out, and freebooter vialed in on your draw step when you rip your third out hahahaha)
Anyone tried something like this? I’d also swap out some Whirs in the right matchup for Gifts. Tasigur also seems really good with Ideas unbound post-board. The bombs are also probably hardcastable in this deck with the Pentads/mox in a pinch.
Reshape is also been good for me against humans since the usually name bridge or white with mage but having another way of just putting bridge on board right away has been too much for them to handle. Especially with ideas now as an option for discarding cards stuck in your hand from their mages
I just want to add that I've been crushing humans online. Like just destroying them every match. There's no other deck that a resolved combo answers so cleanly and ruthlessly. I'm on 2 bridge/2 battle maindeck. Half the time you're on the play and will probably get a foundry down before they disrupt, at which point you have so many options to get a sword in play, even through disruption. Thalia on the play is really the worst situation by a large margin.
This deck feels sort of like a good meta choice right now because of its humans matchup.
@trav34 the problem with having a GY plan B is that everyone will bring in their GY hate for sword. Def tried to SB tarmos and realized the sheer number of relics and RIPs coming in
Heh, thanks, boomforest. I've just been playing a whole lot this last month or so. I admit I'm testing a few embarrassing cards at the moment. *Cough, sage of epityr, cough*
I love the amount of testing in general this community is doing these days.
Here's my last modern league list, went 3-2 losing to storm and tron:
Disclaimer: The sages could be serum visions/and or a 21st land. They're pretty neat turn 1, and can be OK late game if you have a relic lying around. The relics are still kind of just because Kayu's list that I linked to runs 4, which I thought was cool.
Altars have won me matchups against stuff like taking turns, RUG scapeshift, UW control, and lantern. I put them in against storm to "combo" with extirpate, though with no success so far. The SB could be vastly different. I've pretty much just given up trying to have any game against tron, outside of 1 damping sphere.
To that point, these are the problem matchups I've found:
Tron
Storm
Elves (how can you beat fracturing gust/shaman of the pack?)
Burn (can be addressed with SB cards the easiest, but always a tough matchup)
I like a lot of the changes, especially to the manabase.
My thoughts are this:
Sage: I guess the sword trigger is cool, but this is not scry 4. Significantly worse, probably better as thraben/artificer’s assisant/crane if a creature at all
If burn/tron/storm are tough I would say those spots are probably better as bullet witchbane orb/damping spheres? I know they can clunk around in the hand a bit, but I feel silver bullets hurt this deck less than the older versions.
I’d like a 4th mox as hand dumping is critical and having a lotus petal as a possible draw for ideas unbound is a good way to make that card even more busted.
I have never cast battle at the bridge in my life. Is it significantly better against burn than brutality? If not I think a third brutality main would be cool. That or an azcanta which can flip crazy fast with ideas unbound.
So I got too stoked on the deck to sleep, sleeved it up. It’s really sick.
I’m running 18 lands.
Turn 1 bauble/fetch land has been MVP. As long as you hit land 2 you’ll be fine. Lots of redraws (I went 4 relics) And Ideas Unbound as a pathway to your third land with a lower land count really makes your draws off it really incredible.
4th opal is a must
Azcanta fights for an already crowded 2cmc
The deck needs to splash black or splash white, right now it’s basically splashing both. thinking of SB games we’ll need our fetches to hit WW or BB with one shock on the board for us to have Damnation/Wrath effects on time. So I think a second Hallowed Fountain/Watery Grave should be added after that call is made.
I really like white. Access to detention sphere/great (and varietous - looking at you meddling mage) wraths/dispatch seems like a really cool path to SB. Potentially even Teferi. Yipes, had a cart with 40 of them at $10 a piece. Didn’t click the button. So sad.
Cool. I'd be VERY interested to hear about the 18 lands and no serum visions. You're right that getting the crucial 2nd land is the most important thing, as you can ideas into more lands/cast your most important spells, but you still want to be making your land drops, ideally. I think you're right to put damping sphere main.
About battle: The card basically scales as a 1-mana removal spell throughout the game, except vs stuff like early tasigur or goyf, however, it will kill those creatures soon and give you life back, something brutality won't do. It can be cast turn 1 with a bauble/opal if necessary, and can kill Thalia for just a B. You can play out your hand on turn 3-4 and then improvise the artifacts you just cast. Is it better against burn than brutality? It's close. I'd say usually it's better. Casting it for X=3 doesn't trigger eidolon, which is quite relevant. Casting it mid game when you're at 2 life for x=5 or so can be backbreaking.
@TugaTog - You're right that Elves and Storm can be addressed with SB cards. Those decks are so freakin' fast that you're really on your back heel when it comes to playing your hate cards. Just last league, I opened with leyline and relic against storm, and was quickly dispatched on turn 5 with a single wipe away as I was digging for more hate or a way to win the game.
I’m thinking my list will be decent against burn and hollow one, great against humans and gy-based combo decks. I’m concerned about elves, tron/valakut, and control.
Elves just pile on selfless spirits, so I don’t think wrath will help us. What do you guys think about Tragic Arrogance? I could see that being very devastating and leaving us with our engine still somewhat intact.
I’m gonna pretend Tron doesn’t exist until proven wrong (wishful thinking)
Valakut... hm. Gonna just throw in one Jester’s Cap or Posessed Portal.
Control will get the rest of the spots.
My initial, thoughts welcome:
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Thopter Spy Network
1 Jester’s Cap
1 Posessed Portal/Mindlock Orb
1 Collective Brutality
4 Detention Sphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Padeem
2 Tragic Arrogance (good against lantern as well!)
Thoughts welcome, def relying on the fact that the humans matchup is as breezy as you guys make it out to be.
I've been testing the UR build and first I tested 2 Glen Elendra and next up to 3 copies of it in the side.
It is just such a great card vs control/jund and also storm - in this shell once you have chalice at 2 it works pretty nice countering hate stuff, but it shined specially in jund - even I didn't notice it flyes! and attacks lili pretty well!
also this works under Defense grid - which I Play
and I faced the other day a deck with pacts and the enchanmtn that copies the pacts - well the unique way I had to stop this is elendra!
elendra also stops fracturing!
I was searching cards like Null Brooch in modern but just there isn't...
I still loose hard 1st games to jund with this... likely I'll increment the number of EE...
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I am a Dedicated Storm Player - Yes only in Legacy...
I've been tweaking my list since I last posted and really really like playing with thenobodys list as a starting point. The one card that didn't fit for me though was [Ideas Unbound]. It was always clunky and seemed to be more of a pain than anything else. And since I got rid of it, I got rid of Lingering Souls, which I liked but wasn't needed without IU. But IU was meant to provide value - between Whir which is awesome and Steelshaper's Gift which was somewhat useful, I needed another tutor of sorts. Too bad Enlightened Tutor isn't available in Modern...
... but after a lot of testing I did find a replacement. [Reshape]. Yes, it is a very crappy Whir but it does what Whir does, puts the piece on the board instead of your hand. The sorcery speed and high casting cost (usually of 4) plus the sacrifice artifact clause make it much less appealing so I only include it as a 2-of. But for now, that satisfies my need for a replacement
I've done friendly testing versus the top decks. Here's my current testing record:
Humans - 5-0 (getting combo online neutralizes them big time)
Hollow One 4-1 (the one match loss was due to 2 Hollow Ones of turn 1.... ok, enjoy the nut draw)
Jund 3-2 (even with 4 Welding Jars you can still get Junded)
Tron 4-1 (Damping Sphere + Tez/Ensoul beats make the wins possible. But each match I won went to 3 games.
Affinity - 5-0 (unless they get a nut draw, I don't think they have a chance)
Bogles - 5-0 (bridge + Welding Jars backup, they don't have much artifact destruction)
Colorless Eldrazi - 4-1 (hope they don't get Temple, Temple. Watch out for Chalice on 2, then you need Whir/Reshape to win)
Eldrazi Tron - 4-1 (similar)
Hatebears (5-0, stupid Thalia)
UW Control (3-2, lots of ways to get rid of things, plus i made mistakes)
Valakut (5-0, please... through the breach with whir mana up? Eldrazi Titans need not apply with Ensnaring Bridge)
Burn (?, didn't have time to test, 2 Navigator's Compass will help in matchup)
Storm (?, didn't have time to test)
Grixis Death Shadow (?, didn't have time to test)
same for any other decks like Merfolk, Living End, KCI etc.
The list is below:
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
3 Seachrome Coast
1 Darkslick Shores
4 Island
1 Plains
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Academy Ruins
2 Spire of Industry
Combo (11)
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
1 Cranial Plating
1 Time Sieve
2 Navigator's Compass
3 Mox Opal
Tutors (9)
4 Whir of Invention
2 Reshape
3 Steelshaper's Gift
Artifacts (13)
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Welding Jar
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Damping Sphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Altar of the Brood
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Detention Sphere
3 Surgical Extraction
I love having lots of 0 cost artifacts to throw out, with no Collective Brutality it makes managing my Bridges fairly easy.
Even with only 22 lands I sometimes felt like I kept drawing them. I was hiding behind Bridge versus humans one match and drew 4 lands in a row. I had a Mishra's Bauble, but I always seem to forget to crack them - I love having a board of lots of artifacts to be ready for Tezzeret or Reshape. So something to keep in mind, Baubles can and should be cracked more often.
Anyways I still have more testing to do and still have to get the Mox Opals so I won't be playing with real cards anytime soon.
Does anyone else have any insights or interesting cards we should be looking at?
My Decks:
I do think cranial plating is wrong in a deck with 0 creatures. If you have foundry out, you're never using gift to search for plating, you're always going to get sword. If you already have sword, you need to then spend 4 mana (W for gift, 2 for plating, 1 for equip), which represents the loss of 4 thopters that could have been produced. So you're sacrificing 4 life, in this scenario, and 4 points of thopter damage to make 1 of your thopters much bigger. If you have a bridge down, this thopter cannot swing unless you spend BB. You're also opening yourself up to more loss if the thopter gets bolted, etc. Just my 2 cents.
I think something will happen to humans to tame it a bit, it seems a smidge too fast/devastating. Not sure if that’s a hate card in a set or a ban, but it doesn’t feel sustainable.
Til then I’m more keen on a deck with a lot of redundant ways to outrun/work around a meddling mage on your key card (and phantasmal image on your out, and image on your next out, and freebooter vialed in on your draw step when you rip your third out hahahaha)
I think the keys are:
4 Ideas unbound
4 thopter
3 sword
4 whir
3 bridge
3 Pentad
4 Mox
Tools
Sideboard:
Elesh
Iona
Wurmcoil
2 Unburial
2 Tasigur
3 Gifts
Crucible/GQ
Removal
Anyone tried something like this? I’d also swap out some Whirs in the right matchup for Gifts. Tasigur also seems really good with Ideas unbound post-board. The bombs are also probably hardcastable in this deck with the Pentads/mox in a pinch.
U/B Faeries
U/B Tezzerator
This deck feels sort of like a good meta choice right now because of its humans matchup.
I love the amount of testing in general this community is doing these days.
Here's my last modern league list, went 3-2 losing to storm and tron:
Disclaimer: The sages could be serum visions/and or a 21st land. They're pretty neat turn 1, and can be OK late game if you have a relic lying around. The relics are still kind of just because Kayu's list that I linked to runs 4, which I thought was cool.
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
1 Welding Jar
1 Pithing Needle
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
2 Ensnaring Bridge
Sorceries: 10
1 Steelshaper's Gift
4 Ideas Unbound
2 Collective Brutality
2 Lingering Souls
1 Battle at the Bridge
4 Whir of Invention
Creatures: 2
2 Sage of Epityr
Land: 20
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
3 Detention Sphere
3 Extirpate (much better against storm than surgical)
3 Altar of the Brood
1 Damping Sphere
2 Battle at the Bridge
Altars have won me matchups against stuff like taking turns, RUG scapeshift, UW control, and lantern. I put them in against storm to "combo" with extirpate, though with no success so far. The SB could be vastly different. I've pretty much just given up trying to have any game against tron, outside of 1 damping sphere.
To that point, these are the problem matchups I've found:
Tron
Storm
Elves (how can you beat fracturing gust/shaman of the pack?)
Burn (can be addressed with SB cards the easiest, but always a tough matchup)
My thoughts are this:
Sage: I guess the sword trigger is cool, but this is not scry 4. Significantly worse, probably better as thraben/artificer’s assisant/crane if a creature at all
If burn/tron/storm are tough I would say those spots are probably better as bullet witchbane orb/damping spheres? I know they can clunk around in the hand a bit, but I feel silver bullets hurt this deck less than the older versions.
I’d like a 4th mox as hand dumping is critical and having a lotus petal as a possible draw for ideas unbound is a good way to make that card even more busted.
I have never cast battle at the bridge in my life. Is it significantly better against burn than brutality? If not I think a third brutality main would be cool. That or an azcanta which can flip crazy fast with ideas unbound.
I’m running 18 lands.
Turn 1 bauble/fetch land has been MVP. As long as you hit land 2 you’ll be fine. Lots of redraws (I went 4 relics) And Ideas Unbound as a pathway to your third land with a lower land count really makes your draws off it really incredible.
4th opal is a must
Azcanta fights for an already crowded 2cmc
The deck needs to splash black or splash white, right now it’s basically splashing both. thinking of SB games we’ll need our fetches to hit WW or BB with one shock on the board for us to have Damnation/Wrath effects on time. So I think a second Hallowed Fountain/Watery Grave should be added after that call is made.
I really like white. Access to detention sphere/great (and varietous - looking at you meddling mage) wraths/dispatch seems like a really cool path to SB. Potentially even Teferi. Yipes, had a cart with 40 of them at $10 a piece. Didn’t click the button. So sad.
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Damping Sphere
1 Witchbane Orb
4 Relic
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra’s Bauble
1 Pithing Needle (not sure on this)
4 thopter foundry
4 sword
1 Time Sieve
4 Whir
4 Ideas Unbound
3 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
2 Steelshaper’s Gift
18 Lands, basically what @the_nobodys is running
About battle: The card basically scales as a 1-mana removal spell throughout the game, except vs stuff like early tasigur or goyf, however, it will kill those creatures soon and give you life back, something brutality won't do. It can be cast turn 1 with a bauble/opal if necessary, and can kill Thalia for just a B. You can play out your hand on turn 3-4 and then improvise the artifacts you just cast. Is it better against burn than brutality? It's close. I'd say usually it's better. Casting it for X=3 doesn't trigger eidolon, which is quite relevant. Casting it mid game when you're at 2 life for x=5 or so can be backbreaking.
@TugaTog - You're right that Elves and Storm can be addressed with SB cards. Those decks are so freakin' fast that you're really on your back heel when it comes to playing your hate cards. Just last league, I opened with leyline and relic against storm, and was quickly dispatched on turn 5 with a single wipe away as I was digging for more hate or a way to win the game.
Elves just pile on selfless spirits, so I don’t think wrath will help us. What do you guys think about Tragic Arrogance? I could see that being very devastating and leaving us with our engine still somewhat intact.
I’m gonna pretend Tron doesn’t exist until proven wrong (wishful thinking)
Valakut... hm. Gonna just throw in one Jester’s Cap or Posessed Portal.
Control will get the rest of the spots.
My initial, thoughts welcome:
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Thopter Spy Network
1 Jester’s Cap
1 Posessed Portal/Mindlock Orb
1 Collective Brutality
4 Detention Sphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Padeem
2 Tragic Arrogance (good against lantern as well!)
Thoughts welcome, def relying on the fact that the humans matchup is as breezy as you guys make it out to be.
I've been testing the UR build and first I tested 2 Glen Elendra and next up to 3 copies of it in the side.
It is just such a great card vs control/jund and also storm - in this shell once you have chalice at 2 it works pretty nice countering hate stuff, but it shined specially in jund - even I didn't notice it flyes! and attacks lili pretty well!
also this works under Defense grid - which I Play
and I faced the other day a deck with pacts and the enchanmtn that copies the pacts - well the unique way I had to stop this is elendra!
elendra also stops fracturing!
I was searching cards like Null Brooch in modern but just there isn't...
I still loose hard 1st games to jund with this... likely I'll increment the number of EE...