And how reliably are people getting their snow lands out? Is astrolabe really that good that its worth adjusting our manabase so much? Just feels like an unnecessary declbuilding restriction when a combination of other rocks would do the same.
Plus i dont want to stop playing with my john avon lands lol
For me so far, I couldn't imagine removing them. Plus, you are basically playing something like 15 snow lands because of all the fetches. Very seldom have I had to wait to cast one.
I'm really high on Astrolabe, it is the first artifact for 1 we get in modern that cantrip and does not requiers to sac himself to achieve his purpose. It allow us to play colorless lands (or colored ones that are not blue for that matter) without breaking our mana base, it passes though blood moon (even it's it's less a problem if we play more basics), power up and stabilize whir of invention. And that's only counting the cards we already played. It give us an almost damnation for 3 with Dead of winter, it plays the role of fodder for the new red goblin (two of them and it's R,tap : draw a card)and for foundry.
Feel like it does everything we would like him to do and more.
And how reliably are people getting their snow lands out? Is astrolabe really that good that its worth adjusting our manabase so much? Just feels like an unnecessary declbuilding restriction when a combination of other rocks would do the same.
Plus i dont want to stop playing with my john avon lands lol
Yeah, astrolabe is really that good. Not hard to hit a snow land, and between Urza and whir, it's often a cantripping, mana fixing, mana rock. Plus Dead of Winter, like Xantrith said.
I haven't tried Karn with Urza yet, but I will. I'm actually waiting on London mulligan to do that, though, because Dice Factory is much better with London than without, and I want to test both 4-drops together mostly in a dice factory shell. I can see the value of running him as a 1-of over, say, grid.
In order to play this on MTGO, you absolutely have to get comfortable with the hotkeys, and also to recognize what is actually necessary to win the game. Rarely do you actually need Urza to dig for the "win con," and if you do, it's against combo or tron and those games shouldn't be drawn out for games 2/3, so it's ok to take 10 minutes of quick clicking to win. Otherwise, just pass the turn and do only enough to win.
Just got a 5-0 with a similar build. Only significant difference is I'm running 3 brutality in the main over the Sai and only 2x Urza. Aether grid is so good even without Urza that I can't understand why we weren't running it before. It's so good against planeswalkers and tokens and is a real damage wincon without any help. I've been in love with it.
I keep thinking about a Jeskai version. The maindeck would be identical, except different lands obviously. The sideboard would trade battle at the bridge, unmoored ego, and dead of winter for what? Wear//Tear, surgical, and path (or On Thin Ice)? It seems to me that white really only offers permanent enchantment removal, and since Stony/Rip are the ones that we care most abuot (Leyline sucks, but the decks that play it can be beaten by just sacking random stuff to foundry), and the only decks that play Stony/Rip are UW control for the most part, and they can just counter the removal, then I don't see the benefit of Jeskai over Grixis. Especially since Echoing Truth can buy you 1-1.5 turns of thopter production, and truth potentially hoses leyline as good as wear//tear does.
If I were to go jeskai, I think I would actually do a fairly heavy creature sideboard. Deputy of Detention, Meddling Mage, Unsettled Mariner, and maybe even somthing like Kor Firewalker for burn. I would just really miss ego against combo and tron, and battle against burn. I guess there's lightning helix, but battle is just so easy to cast for a large payoff.
What are other people's opinions on Grixis Vs. Jeskai (considering the 4 engineer, 4 urza lists)?
@Reedy26 - I would not play Chalice in a deck that doesn't have 4 SSG these days. Just a little too slow, in my opinion.
I've been trying out UWR for a little while, and Kanister's changes as well. Kanister basically just plays white for sideboard Paths, and teferi, and today Fragmentize and Sunbeam Spellbomb. So pretty minimal stuff. So basically losing dead of winter, ego, battle for those. In many ways Path is a strict upgrade to black removal, though Battle does have bonus effects vs burn, so there is that. Teferi is great protection for the combo and against control especially. I'd say teferi is one of the biggest reasons to potentially be white. He's got 4x Leyline of the Void for his graveyard hate.
I do think the egos are less needed now that the list is more combo. Games don't drag out to turn 57 anymore usually. Even things like artifact destruction is less of a concern, since 1) we're less focused on Ensnaring bridge usually, and 2) the combo doesn't super care about artifact destruction. Especially if you have Urza and Sword in play, and then play Foundry, artifact destruction is entirely irrelevant. I've had people try it, and as long as you have artifacts/mana to sacrifice something in response to get sword back and just continue going off, which is easy to do with Urza providing a ton of mana, you're fine. You can just keep going off with the Abrupt Decay or whatever on the stack, making a ton of tokens and maybe activating Urza until you hit another Foundry, let it resolve, play the foundry, do your thing again. Likewise creature removal works the same, go off in response until you hit another urza, let the removal resolve then replay Urza.
So far I quite like Jeskai. I think the biggest thing I miss, is Dead of Winter in the board for creature matchups like Humans. Kanister is playing 2 path and 3 bolt though, which helps a lot as well. So i dunno
I think in the end the difference between Jeskai and Grixis isn't huge and comes down to just some sideboard options. White traditionally has the most powerful sideboard cards in modern, so I could see Jeskai becoming the preferred option.
Losing Ego certainly does hurt the tron matchup, but even with it the tron matchup wasn't exactly good anyway.
Hard enchantment removal is nice, but I'm not sure how needed it really is. Urza, Aether grid, Sai, etc all provide very valid ways to beat Stony Silence or Rest in Peace. Echoing Truth is ok too, though less good. But it is nice that you can assemble your combo, bounce whatever is stopping you and just win. Though Teferi is great for that too while also providing other value.
On a sidenote, I love that Kanister is playing the deck a lot lately. It's great to have a MPL level player in the same page as us, as well as getting more people interested in the deck. The more people trying it out means the more we'll be able to narrow down to what is the "best" build, if there really is one. And it's great just to be able to watch someone else play the deck. I don't agree with all of his decisions in deckbuilding, but hearing others thoughts, especially when they have success with it, is great
I've been trying out UWR for a little while, and Kanister's changes as well. Kanister basically just plays white for sideboard Paths, and teferi, and today Fragmentize and Sunbeam Spellbomb. So pretty minimal stuff. So basically losing dead of winter, ego, battle for those. In many ways Path is a strict upgrade to black removal, though Battle does have bonus effects vs burn, so there is that. Teferi is great protection for the combo and against control especially. I'd say teferi is one of the biggest reasons to potentially be white. He's got 4x Leyline of the Void for his graveyard hate.
I do think the egos are less needed now that the list is more combo. Games don't drag out to turn 57 anymore usually. Even things like artifact destruction is less of a concern, since 1) we're less focused on Ensnaring bridge usually, and 2) the combo doesn't super care about artifact destruction. Especially if you have Urza and Sword in play, and then play Foundry, artifact destruction is entirely irrelevant. I've had people try it, and as long as you have artifacts/mana to sacrifice something in response to get sword back and just continue going off, which is easy to do with Urza providing a ton of mana, you're fine. You can just keep going off with the Abrupt Decay or whatever on the stack, making a ton of tokens and maybe activating Urza until you hit another Foundry, let it resolve, play the foundry, do your thing again. Likewise creature removal works the same, go off in response until you hit another urza, let the removal resolve then replay Urza.
So far I quite like Jeskai. I think the biggest thing I miss, is Dead of Winter in the board for creature matchups like Humans. Kanister is playing 2 path and 3 bolt though, which helps a lot as well. So i dunno
I think in the end the difference between Jeskai and Grixis isn't huge and comes down to just some sideboard options. White traditionally has the most powerful sideboard cards in modern, so I could see Jeskai becoming the preferred option.
Losing Ego certainly does hurt the tron matchup, but even with it the tron matchup wasn't exactly good anyway.
Hard enchantment removal is nice, but I'm not sure how needed it really is. Urza, Aether grid, Sai, etc all provide very valid ways to beat Stony Silence or Rest in Peace. Echoing Truth is ok too, though less good. But it is nice that you can assemble your combo, bounce whatever is stopping you and just win. Though Teferi is great for that too while also providing other value.
On a sidenote, I love that Kanister is playing the deck a lot lately. It's great to have a MPL level player in the same page as us, as well as getting more people interested in the deck. The more people trying it out means the more we'll be able to narrow down to what is the "best" build, if there really is one. And it's great just to be able to watch someone else play the deck. I don't agree with all of his decisions in deckbuilding, but hearing others thoughts, especially when they have success with it, is great
Where can I find this Kanister list, I like to try it out tonight at my local FNM.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-league-2019-06-14#kanister_- this is the 5-0 deck of his from last friday's 5-0 dump that he based off TheNobody's list. If you click through his twitch video past broadcasts you'll see him playing a UWR variant recently, including a bit today, as well as the Grixis version linked above. I think he's been doing pretty well with the deck overall recently. He went 6-2 in the weekend's modern challenge with a UWR version, you might find it in the results, I dunno exactly where he placed
Just wanted to chime in and mention that I had tested/settled on the white splash over a green splash ahead of the SCG Invitational (mostly for little teferi) and was decent in testing, but largely contributed to my match losses in 2 of my modern matches/locked me out of day 2. I switched back to sultai for the MCQ this weekend in DC (with some minor tweaks) and just missed being live for top 8 (G3 against red Phoenix: T2 sword into T3 whir for foundry with Urza in hand, missed 4th land, got blown out b/c he had 4th land AND 1-of Shatterstorm the following turn).
Been toying with a lot of things recently but haven't had a chance to do much testing on the URx shells floating around lately. Might have to give it a shot here soon, but wanted to note that I agree that white doesn't seem to outweigh the other secondary/tertiary color options out there for this archetype (at the moment at least).
Also i'll be sticking to a u/B base rather than playing white. This is simply a matter of personal preference, i cant stand playing white lol.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Plus i dont want to stop playing with my john avon lands lol
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Feel like it does everything we would like him to do and more.
After seeing the goldfish video though.. not practical on MTGO. That software really needs to provide a way to record loops and playback x times.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Yeah, astrolabe is really that good. Not hard to hit a snow land, and between Urza and whir, it's often a cantripping, mana fixing, mana rock. Plus Dead of Winter, like Xantrith said.
I haven't tried Karn with Urza yet, but I will. I'm actually waiting on London mulligan to do that, though, because Dice Factory is much better with London than without, and I want to test both 4-drops together mostly in a dice factory shell. I can see the value of running him as a 1-of over, say, grid.
In order to play this on MTGO, you absolutely have to get comfortable with the hotkeys, and also to recognize what is actually necessary to win the game. Rarely do you actually need Urza to dig for the "win con," and if you do, it's against combo or tron and those games shouldn't be drawn out for games 2/3, so it's ok to take 10 minutes of quick clicking to win. Otherwise, just pass the turn and do only enough to win.
I've ordered the astrolabes to start testing. Also had a go with tbe goblins and my god its good. I really umderestimated him!
The video is on here: https://www.twitch.tv/thehairytarantula
Was also the semis coverage match.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
If I were to go jeskai, I think I would actually do a fairly heavy creature sideboard. Deputy of Detention, Meddling Mage, Unsettled Mariner, and maybe even somthing like Kor Firewalker for burn. I would just really miss ego against combo and tron, and battle against burn. I guess there's lightning helix, but battle is just so easy to cast for a large payoff.
What are other people's opinions on Grixis Vs. Jeskai (considering the 4 engineer, 4 urza lists)?
@Reedy26 - I would not play Chalice in a deck that doesn't have 4 SSG these days. Just a little too slow, in my opinion.
I do think the egos are less needed now that the list is more combo. Games don't drag out to turn 57 anymore usually. Even things like artifact destruction is less of a concern, since 1) we're less focused on Ensnaring bridge usually, and 2) the combo doesn't super care about artifact destruction. Especially if you have Urza and Sword in play, and then play Foundry, artifact destruction is entirely irrelevant. I've had people try it, and as long as you have artifacts/mana to sacrifice something in response to get sword back and just continue going off, which is easy to do with Urza providing a ton of mana, you're fine. You can just keep going off with the Abrupt Decay or whatever on the stack, making a ton of tokens and maybe activating Urza until you hit another Foundry, let it resolve, play the foundry, do your thing again. Likewise creature removal works the same, go off in response until you hit another urza, let the removal resolve then replay Urza.
So far I quite like Jeskai. I think the biggest thing I miss, is Dead of Winter in the board for creature matchups like Humans. Kanister is playing 2 path and 3 bolt though, which helps a lot as well. So i dunno
I think in the end the difference between Jeskai and Grixis isn't huge and comes down to just some sideboard options. White traditionally has the most powerful sideboard cards in modern, so I could see Jeskai becoming the preferred option.
Losing Ego certainly does hurt the tron matchup, but even with it the tron matchup wasn't exactly good anyway.
Hard enchantment removal is nice, but I'm not sure how needed it really is. Urza, Aether grid, Sai, etc all provide very valid ways to beat Stony Silence or Rest in Peace. Echoing Truth is ok too, though less good. But it is nice that you can assemble your combo, bounce whatever is stopping you and just win. Though Teferi is great for that too while also providing other value.
On a sidenote, I love that Kanister is playing the deck a lot lately. It's great to have a MPL level player in the same page as us, as well as getting more people interested in the deck. The more people trying it out means the more we'll be able to narrow down to what is the "best" build, if there really is one. And it's great just to be able to watch someone else play the deck. I don't agree with all of his decisions in deckbuilding, but hearing others thoughts, especially when they have success with it, is great
Where can I find this Kanister list, I like to try it out tonight at my local FNM.
https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/SQN-6DnXf
How did it do?
I assume the pyrite spellbomb is for the spot removal and card draw. I am lacking a few cards so I am going to put the narset/puzzlebox in too.
edit: this is his UWR list from yesterday's challenge: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2019-06-16#kanister_th_place
Been toying with a lot of things recently but haven't had a chance to do much testing on the URx shells floating around lately. Might have to give it a shot here soon, but wanted to note that I agree that white doesn't seem to outweigh the other secondary/tertiary color options out there for this archetype (at the moment at least).