Cool, that was fun to watch. Todd made the classic mistake of whirring for sieve with 3 open mana instead of playing a foundry and saccing an egg to make a thopter and draw a card. That's more mana efficient, puts more artifacts on the board to sac to a whirred-for sieve the next turn, and leaves open the possibility of naturally drawing the sieve and saving even more mana. I wish they'd paired up the thopter/sword deck with a less fair deck than zombies, but overall, a fun match.
I do like a lot about Todd's build. It's obviously meant to be a pretty all in combo version. All the card draw is pretty great. It definitely needs some number of engineers. Also as he mentioned the sideboard is pretty terrible. But for a first draft list, it seems like a very possible direction the deck could go. Goblin engineer + Ichor wellspring is pretty great
The last game sure showed how, especially with so many cheap cantrippy artifacts, a foundry can win on its own even with no answer to leyline that is on the board
Yeah, it was neat to see all the cantripping/card draw with eggs and thoughtcast going on. Urza being a win on the spot card helps that, but if he'd been up against something more disruptive or with better pressure, like burn, big mana, or combo, I think there's just too much durdle. But I think there's a middle ground, with some eggs and some hate rocks.
You're right, Systrill, it was sweet to see him get there like that with the thopter beatdown plan.
I wonder if the new engineered plague guy will show up in sideboards to screw up thopter sword... E Plague was one of my favorite SB cards in legacy, because it was like a removal spell with a lock stapled on.
Let's see what things it hits in modern:
-Thopters, or any other tokens, like Young pyronancer, lingering souls, empty the warrens
-Bloodghast
-humans, elves, etc
-vizier of remedies
-whatever infect creature we're looking at
-zombies (if carrion feeder makes bridgevine a thing)
Anything else?
I'd say that's enough to expect it, heck maybe we should run one.
Hi fellers! While waiting for the new cards to reach MTGO I m trying to assemble the list with which I ll start testing. The first approach is to keep the core cards of my previous builds because I enjoyed them too much. The additions were mainly goblin engineer and Urza, lord high artificer, and with goblin leading me to red mana I tried to squeeze in a playset of faithless looting.
First of all I m asking some advice for the manabase because i don t think this support R turn one, I've always played with fetches and fastlands so I m open to suggestions. Collective brutality is in here because with the new Boros canopy land i expect a lot of burn decks appearing around, but those slots can be replaced easily.
Same as grafdigger's cage for neoform and bad stuffs like it.
The only BIG question mark remaining with this Grixis list is Stony silence, should I try to win throught it or should I splash another off color to fight it? I m tending for the latter, I saw some of you playing the fourth color just for the sideboard options it gives, so i might try some of the following: detention sphere, deputy of detention, wear//tear, abrupt decay.
Fourth color is greedy but also needed I fear, and for that readon I guess I should go with more gold lands, but I m curious to hear what you think about it!!!
When looking at Todd's SCG list, I realized he's basically monoblue, using filter artifacts to splash Thopter Foundry and more than usual colorless lands. For that I think it might be possible to accommodate the new astrolabe and snow Islands, splashing even the goblin, something like this:
Nurmansk, you only have 7 lands that can reliably hit R on turn 1. I just don't think looting is worth a spot, especially when sword is the only card you want to bin, and goblin does the job so much better. Why not just run visions as your turn 1 play.
Smidondrej, I posted a list that maxed on snow lands, because I really like astrolabe, so I'm with you on that. I'm not sure thoughtcast is where we want to be. We would rather dig for a single card early than try to draw 2 after developing our board. I think serum visions is just better for us.
Nurmansk, you only have 7 lands that can reliably hit R on turn 1. I just don't think looting is worth a spot, especially when sword is the only card you want to bin, and goblin does the job so much better. Why not just run visions as your turn 1 play.
Fair enought, and what about the fourth color for sideboard? do you think some interaction with pesky permanent is needed? If so, in which form?
So I've been thinking about post horizons decklists with thopter sword. Curious on everyone's take on this. Obvious game plan A is urza+thopter combo. Game plan B is urza + Sai or urza + paradoxical outcome. The whirs are weaker in this deck. I like astrolobe with Sai, whir, foundry and urza. It's significantly better than star. I like the cheap gy hate in the meta too.
Karn is a problem, and I think he best answer is thought seize not needle. Maybe even metallic rebukes.
Also, I like the idea of dead of winter in the board and probably a bridge.
The best part is if it works as a deck I can name is "Brown Snow"!
Additionally I could see a more natural adjustment of my existing list. Thought seize has been great for me, especially post board with everyone's artifact haymakers. Bridge has been great as well, but with urza you need it less.
Ive also found tolaria west and blast zone to be very good together. Blast zone has done a ton for me. Killing stony/leyline, killing humans, I've killed 4 planeswalkers with a single blast zone on 3 when I only had 2 colors for an ee. Not being counterable vs uw is great too.
I've been testing my snow urza engineer list on xmage, so a few early observations:
-Urza is quite good even without the combo, and can pull you out of (not dire straits) but a dwindling board state. His token gets bigger more quickly than you might imagine, and if you untap with him his 5 ability is nice.
-I really like Dead of Night.
-Astrolabe is sweet. But it can be annoying to remember it can only be cast with snow, meaning you can't cast one with urza mana unless you already have an astrolabe.
-Engineer has been decent. I feel like I need more practice with him, meaning, I think his ceiling is high but you can make sub-optimal plays with him quite often. Anyone who played legacy and learned how hard it is to play brainstorm correctly can relate. Not only is he a tutor, but he can also be a value engine (just swapping astrolabes every turn happened a few times), and he can also be removal protection. So unlike, say whir, which you might want to hold off on playing so that you can make a better, instant-speed evaluation of what to tutor for, engineer comes with a pressure to play early and start a sort of engine going. But then you lose out on knowing what really to tutor for. So like I said, he's hard to play correctly.
-Prismatic Vista and all the basics. They can sometimes be clunky, especially when you open with both a whir and a goblin. Astrolabe really glues everything together, and so far in testing, color screw hasn't been too difficult (though not as butter smooth as what I'm used to). But like I said, the 3 mana board wipe that only requires 1 black may make it all worth it. I'll probably ditch the scrying sheets, though.
She costs 4 and doesnt really do enough. You dont need to cast the sword. Just activate the thopter foundry and it'll trigger in the grave. So her getting the sword from grace seems moot.
The last game sure showed how, especially with so many cheap cantrippy artifacts, a foundry can win on its own even with no answer to leyline that is on the board
You're right, Systrill, it was sweet to see him get there like that with the thopter beatdown plan.
I wonder if the new engineered plague guy will show up in sideboards to screw up thopter sword... E Plague was one of my favorite SB cards in legacy, because it was like a removal spell with a lock stapled on.
Let's see what things it hits in modern:
-Thopters, or any other tokens, like Young pyronancer, lingering souls, empty the warrens
-Bloodghast
-humans, elves, etc
-vizier of remedies
-whatever infect creature we're looking at
-zombies (if carrion feeder makes bridgevine a thing)
Anything else?
I'd say that's enough to expect it, heck maybe we should run one.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Here is the list:
4 thopter foundry
3 sword of the meek
4 mox opal
4 mishra's bauble
2 ensnaring bridge
1 welding jar
1 pithing needle
2 nihil spellbomb
1 pyrite spellbomb
1 grafdigger's cage
1 damping sphere
1 spellskite
2 urza, lord high artificier
3 goblin engineer
INSTANTS AND SORCERIES (10)
4 faithless looting
4 whir of invention
2 collective brutality
LANDS (20)
4 darkslick shores
2 spirebluff canal
4 polluted delta
1 watery grave
1 steam vents
4 spire of industry
3 island
1 academy ruins
First of all I m asking some advice for the manabase because i don t think this support R turn one, I've always played with fetches and fastlands so I m open to suggestions.
Collective brutality is in here because with the new Boros canopy land i expect a lot of burn decks appearing around, but those slots can be replaced easily.
Same as grafdigger's cage for neoform and bad stuffs like it.
The only BIG question mark remaining with this Grixis list is Stony silence, should I try to win throught it or should I splash another off color to fight it? I m tending for the latter, I saw some of you playing the fourth color just for the sideboard options it gives, so i might try some of the following: detention sphere, deputy of detention, wear//tear, abrupt decay.
Fourth color is greedy but also needed I fear, and for that readon I guess I should go with more gold lands, but I m curious to hear what you think about it!!!
Thanks all!
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Thoughtcast
4 Goblin Engineer
4 Whir of Invention
4 Mox Opal
3 Urza, High Lord Artificer
2 Ichor Wellspring
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Spellskite
1 Welding Jar
1 Pithing Needle
1 Time Sieve
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
3 Spire of Industry
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventor's Fair
If the Mana won't work, you just switch the astrolabe to Chromatic Star.
Thoughts?
Smidondrej, I posted a list that maxed on snow lands, because I really like astrolabe, so I'm with you on that. I'm not sure thoughtcast is where we want to be. We would rather dig for a single card early than try to draw 2 after developing our board. I think serum visions is just better for us.
Fair enought, and what about the fourth color for sideboard? do you think some interaction with pesky permanent is needed? If so, in which form?
There will be a new site with new ownership but many of the same mods and styling as here.
Can dig for combo, can leave sword in grave if we have the combo she can find urza too.
Can you fit it in some build? what do you think guys
Karn is a problem, and I think he best answer is thought seize not needle. Maybe even metallic rebukes.
Also, I like the idea of dead of winter in the board and probably a bridge.
The best part is if it works as a deck I can name is "Brown Snow"!
4 mox opal
1 Welding Jar
1 Tormod's crypt
3 Nihil spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's cage
4 arcum's astrolobe
2 everflowing chalice
4 Thopter foundry
3 sword of the Meek
4 whir of invention
3 Sai master thopterist
4 urza, high lord artificer
2 paradoxical outcome
3 Misty rainforest
4 polluted delta
3 Prismatic Vista
5 snow-covered islands
1 snow-covered swamp
1 Watery Grave
3 Darkslick shores
3 dead of winter
4 thought seize
Ive also found tolaria west and blast zone to be very good together. Blast zone has done a ton for me. Killing stony/leyline, killing humans, I've killed 4 planeswalkers with a single blast zone on 3 when I only had 2 colors for an ee. Not being counterable vs uw is great too.
4 mox opal
1 Welding Jar
1 Tormod's crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Nihil spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's cage
4 arcum's astrolobe
3 thought seize
4 Thopter foundry
3 sword of the Meek
4 whir of invention
4 urza, high lord artificer
2 ensnaring Bridge
3 Misty rainforest
4 polluted delta
3 Prismatic Vista
4 snow-covered islands
1 snow-covered swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Darkslick shores
2 tolaria west
1 Blast zone
3 dead of winter
-Urza is quite good even without the combo, and can pull you out of (not dire straits) but a dwindling board state. His token gets bigger more quickly than you might imagine, and if you untap with him his 5 ability is nice.
-I really like Dead of Night.
-Astrolabe is sweet. But it can be annoying to remember it can only be cast with snow, meaning you can't cast one with urza mana unless you already have an astrolabe.
-Engineer has been decent. I feel like I need more practice with him, meaning, I think his ceiling is high but you can make sub-optimal plays with him quite often. Anyone who played legacy and learned how hard it is to play brainstorm correctly can relate. Not only is he a tutor, but he can also be a value engine (just swapping astrolabes every turn happened a few times), and he can also be removal protection. So unlike, say whir, which you might want to hold off on playing so that you can make a better, instant-speed evaluation of what to tutor for, engineer comes with a pressure to play early and start a sort of engine going. But then you lose out on knowing what really to tutor for. So like I said, he's hard to play correctly.
-Prismatic Vista and all the basics. They can sometimes be clunky, especially when you open with both a whir and a goblin. Astrolabe really glues everything together, and so far in testing, color screw hasn't been too difficult (though not as butter smooth as what I'm used to). But like I said, the 3 mana board wipe that only requires 1 black may make it all worth it. I'll probably ditch the scrying sheets, though.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI