@DustyCrumbz: Awesome! Great report, and glad you'll finally get a chance to play at the PT. If at all possible, find other folks qualified for the PT and work with them to prepare. It's a very hard event to prepare for alone, but also a lot of the people who may want to help you and aren't qualified often aren't capable of helping.
After a couple poor runs through leagues with my typical BUG list, I picked up @TolariaWest's maindeck spellskite list for another league. I made a couple small changes, -1 Fair -1 Bridge +1 Academy Ruins +1 Nihil Spellbomb main, and -1 Revoker +1 Battle at the Bridge side.
Ended up going 4-1.
Beat Bogles, Dredge, Storm, and Spirits. Then sadly losing the final round against Humans.
Spellskite main was obviously bonkers vs bogles, easiest match ever.
I lost Humans when they named Tezzeret with Meddling Mage, played Stony Silence and RIP, and finally a Teeg locked my out of any win conditions since I didn't bring in the Aether Grids. I didn't want to go all in on alt-wincons because humans often relies primarily on Knight of Autumn and often doesn't play the enchantments. Sadly teeg locked out my plan to eventually draw into Battle at the Bridge to kill Meddling Mage and play a tezz in the same turn.
In the end it's only one league so far, but I really liked the Faithless Lootings and spellskites. Spellskite buying some time blocking, and even providing defense against noble hierarch beatdown felt great. 4 skite + 4 Jars seemed like overkill, but in matchups like dredge where I was hiding behind bridge + cage for awhile, drawing more skites and jars just quickly meant I had more protection than they had hate.
I also really like Grid. I'd played it in the past, but haven't for a long time. I forgot just how strong of a card it is.
The lootings also felt quite good. I was convinced I'd like Serum Visions more, but there are lots of times I kinda don't like serum visions, when you're just trying to empty your hand for bridge, sometimes a cantrip can feel pretty bad. Lootings helping to also empty your hand for bridge was pretty great.
4 Pithing Needle did feel like a lot, but I also didn't hate it. It's one of those cards that when it's good it's GOOD.
I think the main thing I feel I might want is some other answer to Stony Silence, in a destroy effect. Something like Trophy, Wear/Tear, or Abrupt Decay, maybe. I could see maybe cutting like 1 Needle, 1 Jar for a couple of those effects. Maybe something like move the Battle at the Bridge to the main, cutting a pithing needle, and then cut a jar from the side for 2 Abrupt Decay. I think with 4 Opals and 4 Rainbow lands splashing green in the board is easy.
Anyway, just some of my thoughts, I think I'm going to keep playing with this list, I think I like it more than my previous BUG style list
I found other folks talking about their sideboard plans to be really interesting, so I thought I'd go through mine. Hopefully it's useful to somebody, or maybe folks can point out where they think I have the wrong idea?
Excellent Match-Ups - The deck has the easiest time with aggressive decks that pack disruption instead of burn due to the high redundancy of cards and combos available, and being able to fall to a low life total without consequence. Most are white and play RIP/Stony Silence post-board, so we need alternate win-cons.
Humans - Needle on Vial or Horizon Canopy. Looting can discard Sword around Meddling Mage.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -4 Pithing Needle
SB: +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +1 Torpror Orb, +3 Welding Jar
Spirits - Needle on Vial or Mausoleum Wanderer. Looting can discard Sword around Spell Queller. Whir for X > 2 if possible.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -4 Pithing Needle
SB: +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +1 Torpor Orb, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +2 Welding Jar
Eldrazi & Taxes - Needle on Vial or Eldrazi Displacer. Keep Flickerwisp, Strangler, and Displacer tricks in mind.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks, -2 Pithing Needle
SB: +1 Torpor Orb, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Boggles - Needle on Horizon Canopy. Post-board keep Needle on Seal of Primordium.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere
SB: +2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Very Favorable Match-Ups These decks tend to be explosive aggro decks that have minimal reach turned off by either Witchbane Orb, Spellskite, or Pithing Needle. They can sometimes win on speed or reach, but are usually contained in a timely fashion.
Hardened Scales - Usually Needle Arcbound Ravager first, unless you have a Spellskite + Bridge or there's a compelling problem on the table. Eventually a Needle (or Witchbane Orb) will be needed on Walking Ballista. Sometimes you need to needle Steel Overseer, Inkmoth Nexus, Throne of Geth and/or Module.
SB: -4 Sword of the Meek, -4 Thopter Foundry, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks, -1 Damping Spehre
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, +1 Phyrexian Revoker
-OR-
SB: -1 Damping Sphere, -1 Witchbane Orb, -2 Faithless Looting
SB: +4 Welding Jar
Hollow One - Needle a land.
SB: -3 Pithing Needle, -1 Witchbane Orb, (Keep one Needle for E.E.)
SB: +3 Welding Jar, +1 Grafdigger's Cage
Thing in the Ice - Needle a land.
SB: -4 Pithing Needle, -1 Witchbane Orb
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +1 Grafdigger's Cage
Favorable Match-Ups - These match-ups you won't win all the time, but will win most of the time. These are fair interactive decks that just can't deal well with a resolved Thopter-Foundry and the endless value it creates. They also lean on planeswalkers which can be easily answered with Pithing Needle.
Azorious Control - Needle Teferi, then Search for Azcanta, then Jace. Jace can be killed by Thopters where Azcanta can't. Though it's reasonable to needle an active Jace. Usually name Cryptic Command with Ego, then Detention Sphere to protect your win-cons.
SB: - 3 Ensnaring Bridge, -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 KCI, -2 Mox Opal, -1 Damping Sphere
SB: + 4 Unmoored Ego, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +2 Tezzeret
Jund // Abzan //Golgari Midrange - Needle Liliana, unless you have an active Thopter-Sword in which case Ooze can be better.
SB: -3 Mox Opal, -2 Faithless Looting, -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +2 Tezzeet, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
Slightly Favorable Matches - These are combo decks (burn is a combo) that can beat you to the punch if you don't find the right cards really fast. I win these more often than I lose them, but I'm not surprised when I lose one of these.
Slightly Unfavorable Matchups These match-ups tend to consist of a fast clock plus disruption, either aggro-control or combo-control decks where their control aspect stops our prison aspect from checking their win cons. I win sometimes, but I lose a little more often.
4c Death's Shadow - Needle a land. You probably can't play around Stubborn Denial, but if you can do so.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -4 Pithing Needle
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid (maybe should have +1 Cage?)
Very Unfavorable Match-Ups There are some combo decks that are too hard to contain, and control decks that go deeper than us.
Krark-Clan Ironworks - Needle Engineered Explosives, then usually Inventors' Fair.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -4 Sword of the Meek, -4 Thopter Foundry, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks, -1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +4 Unmoored Ego, +4 Welding Jar, +2 Tezzeret
Grixis Whir - Needle Engineered Explosives, then Academy Ruins and try to deck them. G1 Don't cast/use Bauble or Looting. Need Witchbane to stop Ipnu Rivulet recursion *before* they GQ your manabase out. You can also nut them with infinite thopters, but they get Bridge down pretty fast. G2 you can blindside them with Unmoored Ego for a key lock piece (Chalice or Witchbane Orb to leave them open to more Egos?) I think most of our paths to victory involve decking. They also have Tez and Grid, so they will likely Needle/Spyglass/Revoker these.
SB: -4 Faithless Looting, -1 Bottled Cloister, -4 Spellskite
SB: +4 Unmoored Ego, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +2 Tezzeret, +1 Phyrexian Revoker
Great guide @TolariaWest! Here are some additional thoughts on some of the matchups:
Humans - This is one of the many matchups where I really value the access to cheap instant speed removal to buy time/undo their "creature prison": Push > Battle
Spirits - If you Needle in the dark, I typically name Vial in Game 1, but Mausoleum Wanderer Game 2-3. The reason is that most lists have been playing about 3x Stony postboard, so there's a chance they might have sided out all Vials against you. Also regarding Spell Queller, Whir can be as low as X=2 since the total cmc is 5+ as long as X isn't =0-1.
Eldrazi & Taxes - Same as Spirits, this is a matchup where they have Vial main and usually Stony in the board.
Hardened Scales - Even though they beef up their creatures, ThopterSword is great here, as the combo acts as a pseudo-bridge with profitable trades or chump blocks. TBH, I like the second sideboard plan more than the first here, and I'd consider trimming on Lootings, as this is a matchup where I'd want to be trimming my own Serum Visions to stay tempo positive with my early board development and set up a Whir turn (though looting is a better spell than serum on the hellbent path). This also isn't necessarily correct, but you could also consider trimming a bridge or two, as drawing redundant copies can hurt despite being the card you really want to see.
Hollow One - Like with any deck that has a high% history of playing Leyline of the Void, consider bringing in an alt-wincon, despite being an aggro matchup. I don't always do it, but I have a note on my sideboard card to be conscious of this.
Azorious Control - Note that Unmoored Ego is much better here than it is in Jeskai Control.
Burn - Needle could also name Grim Lavamancer if they already have a decent amount of lands on board.
Storm - Needle Scalding Tarn (there isn't really a better target) - though note their land development. The recent consensus amongst Storm players has been to favor the non-fetchland manabase in order to free up sideboard slots that Blood Moon occupied. This can help give you information for games 2-3 on whether to aggressively fetch basics or not.
4c Death's Shadow - This is another matchup where push shines, as it can force a stub out of their hand EOT to clear the way for you to resolve something when you untap. I don't think this matchup is necessarily unfavorable, but it's not a walk in the park. The lines are hard here, just play tightly.
One you already know the type of role you're playing postboard for each matchup (generally speaking: Speed with Mox vs. Card Quality with Cantrips vs. Prison without ThopterSword), I've found it more valueable to have a sideboard guide regarding things like what Needle could name, if it's a Jar/Spellskite matchup and why, etc. rather than a list of "Ins/Outs". Even if I don't decide to say bring in 1x PW for a matchup with a 65+% chance to have Leyline of the Void or say keep a Needle in against burn for Lavamancer, being able to look at some quick notes keeps my mind thinking about the angles I should be concerned about so I feel I don't get caught off-guard. I have a 28-30 match notecard in my deckbox that I update regularly. But I know that isn't an approach for everyone, it's just something I've found a lot of success in doing and I highly recommend it.
Dustycrumbz, I agree about your reasons when and why push is nice, able to force a stubb against GDS, able to kill Teeg to free up battle. But I can't justify running it over either decay or trophy. I had 1 push in my SB recently, along with 2 battle, a decay and a trophy. It was my least boarded-in card. Against most aggro decks I wished it were a battle, and that includes spirits because it can get around queller. Against decks packing white, I wished it were another decay. And trophy can hit stuff like reveler, angler, valakut, and tron lands, giving it relevance in so many more matches.
@Systrill: Glad to hear the list performed well for you! I'll be very interested to hear how you like your variant card selections over time. Tell me where you want the Nihil Spellbomb so much? You and The Nobodys both seem very fond of them, so I worry that I'm missing something when I keep passing them over. I think vs. humans I like Grid > Tezzeret because of Gaddok Teeg, and the fact that Tez can be a really awkward draw early, where bridge actually helps you considerably.
@McGimp: I'm not sure there is a Discord for this group. Maybe @The_Nobodys knows? They've been here for 5 years...!
@All: I'm trying out Lantern-Shredder as early mana rocks/enablers on my stream tomorrow. Got a bunch of ideas borrowed from Grixis Whir or Lantern Control I want to test out in our shell over the next few days. (www.twitch.tv/tolariawest 9:30 AM - 2:30 PM PST M-T-Th-F).
I have been lurking this thread for looong time and been piloting the deck with various takes from the community's suggestions.
Had a year or so break from Magic in overall and now that I returned it is time to brush up my modern skills again.
I really like the way the latest lists look like with wider toolbox in mainboard (graveyard hate for example) but I still like to play good old Tezz in the main instead of sideboard as many others seem to do.
Somebody mentioned problems against burn, so I came up with an idea for sideboard tech and I wanted to ask your opinions as well (ordered them already and gonna test when I can)
The card I am talking about is Fountain of Renewal and it would replace mainboard spellbombs and cage against burn and similar aggressive to the face decks that don't use graveyard.
I would probably be able to squeeze 3 of them in my side in my current list. What do you think?
@Systrill: Glad to hear the list performed well for you! I'll be very interested to hear how you like your variant card selections over time. Tell me where you want the Nihil Spellbomb so much? You and The Nobodys both seem very fond of them, so I worry that I'm missing something when I keep passing them over. I think vs. humans I like Grid > Tezzeret because of Gaddok Teeg, and the fact that Tez can be a really awkward draw early, where bridge actually helps you considerably.
I definitely realized after that humans game that due to Teeg, Grid would have been better. My thinking at the time was Knight of Autumn can blow up Grid, but not Tezz. I totally forgot about Teeg.
As for the spellbomb, it was mostly a case of I didn't want the full 4 Bridges, and I felt Spellbomb might be the most useful thing to have in the place of one of the bridges. I've always been quite happy with how 3 bridges felt in the deck. Given that graveyard strategies are so popular I think spellbomb is a good option, and you can cycle it while using it's ability which is nice. Though most graveyard decks are fairly decent matchups due to bridge, so I'm not really sure I care about the spellbomb. Pyrite Spellbomb could be an option. It has the same issue where most decks it's good against are already good matchups, but it can help cleanup things like Thalias, Meddling Mages, Teegs, Maelstrom Wanderers, Noble Heirarchs, etc. These all being cards that can still cause headaches for us.
I do like Academy Ruins over the 2nd Fair. I had double legendary lands, and I don't find myself activating Fair all that often. Likewise I don't activate Ruins all that often, but it's another one of those cards that when it's good, it's GOOD. Like they blow up a Foundry and you just pick it back up and replay it. Or more often then try to blow up something and you save it with Jar, then pick the Jar back up. Really kinda forces them into spots where they have to wait to have multiple answers in a turn, which sometimes just let's you draw your own redundant backups.
A few comments have led me to wonder... I see everyone keeps 4 Mishra's Bauble come thick or thin. The 75 seems short on space to have all the best answers available because of the versatility of Whir. Is it possible Bauble is actually not the best thing? Like, if a list has 4 Bauble and 0 Nihil and 0 Pyrite, is it better with 2 Bauble and one of each bomb? Or even 0 Bauble and 4 bombs?
@The_Nobodys: I think the Push vs Battle argument may just be something we'll differ on for the foreseeable future. I looked at all of Modern's most common threats that I feel are impactful to the disruption of our ThopterSword and/or Bridge locks and the instant speed tempo plays plus ability to keep untapped artifacts for whir in the same turn have been something I value more than the lifegain that Battle presents. The ability to use mana on the storm opponent's turn when a they play a bear, kill goblin guide after the trigger but before damage, or Revolt trigger kill spell queller as a pseudo counter when they're tapped out are all just a handful of common situations that I've valued push over Battle in my extensive testing of both.
I do admit that Push vs Battle is a close decision and I think it ultimately comes down to picking which side of pros vs cons of each you prefer to have over the other. One pro that Battle definitely has going for it is the applications against Burn. The lifegain is huge (assuming they don't have skull crack/can kill you in response), but again, the tempo plays that push can exhibit don't really make it a significantly lesser spell to me against a deck like this.
As for Push vs green spells, I already have 2 Decay and I value the Pushes as 1-mana interaction over more 2-mana interaction in my list. I just haven't been fond of Trophy over Decay either, as the uncounterable clause is important when I need it to be and Trophy is a much worse turn 2 play than Decay when the targets are the same. The things that Trophy hits that Decay can't are either too big for bridge (Anglers, Titans, etc.), get hit by Needle (Planeswalkers), or get zig zagged by alt wincons (Stony/Rip). It's been a topic of interest for a while but it's not something I've missed having after cutting my last copy of Maelstrom Pulse. My recent sideboard testing was to see if being able to work around things like Leyline/Worship was better with removal or simply ignoring them. I've been trying the latter with a spread of Planeswalkers and have been pretty happy with it, as I'd also rather have additional proactive threats over sandbagging a pulse against decks like control where I am playing the proactive role and want to commit to the board as quickly as possible.
@TolariaWest: The more you trim on the 0's the harder it is to have a consistently impactful turn 3 Whir when you need it in a pinch. It's a similar approach to why a lot of players have favored Jar in the maindeck - Sure it can turn on early Mox and sometimes regenerate when needed, but the 0-cmc plays into the Hellbent bridge plan without having to do work for it, and also makes it easier to set up x=2/3 more consistently on turn 3 when you get to triple blue mana and whir in hand. This leaves room to allow you to cast other non-artifact spells on turns 1-2 while simultaneously setting up your big Turn 3 play. The difference between 0- and 1-cmc isn't nearly as detrimental as say adding another 2-cmc artifact, but being able to keep your mana open for as many spells as possible ahead of turn 3 is really important to consider. The decisions you make on turn 2 especially can really impact the shape of the game from there on out.
@Systrill Your decisions regarding Grid over Tez was actually one of the many reasons I wanted to try diversifying the alt wincons in my postboard plans to include LOTV and Ashiok (without having to splash red for Grid). Against some matchups where I want at least 1 standalone threat that isnt affected by Stony/Rip/Leyline but I know I'll be on the ensnaring bridge plan, I wanted a walker that I knew would have a lesser chance of getting stuck in my hand as a 3cmc spell rather than a 4cmc spell, that also dodged both Teeg and Knight of Autumn. Ashiok not only hits from a completely different angle, it also can make an army out of nothing if given enough time, which nullifies opposing tiny creatures that can still get under bridge (namely Hierarch), as well as ignore when a CoCo Vizier opponent has gained infinite life with the Finks Combo (just a corner case scenario). Also, if your facing a Worship and you're looking to lock out the game with the Time Sieve lock, you can draw to Ashiok as an added layer to mill them. I recognize that Tez can just ultimate to win, but if you're only bringing in 1 walker, know you're going to be on the bridge plan, and are afraid of the 4cmc, this is where having a 3cmc spell that plays the same role can help in niche situations. I split the difference with LOTV because I like 3x threats vs combo/noncreature decks (LOTV + 2x Tez). LOTV took the place of Herald since it's a more consistent play prior to turn 4 when I adjust to have less artifacts but need something to pressure their hand development. I noticed The_Nobodys had included LOTV around the same time I started doing so and was playing upwards of 2x LOTV in the board, maybe I'll try that next.
Just something I've been testing again, as it also really shines against the UW/BGx decks by itself (played a ton of it when it was in standard and as spicy SB tech in various modern decks). Not sure if I'm going to keep it in the long run, but have been happy with the results so far.
I'll preface by saying I haven't been playing as much as I'd like and it showed. I also didn't register my decklist in time (I'll never not pre-reg again). this combined with a mull to 5 stuck on 1 land resulted in a quick R2 Loss. However, I still made day 2 and the deck felt great.
Matchups included: WB Control, Hollow one, Dredge, UR Phoenix, Infect, Spirits, Hardened Scales, Abzan, Mono Red Phoenix, Hollow One Phoenix.
All my wins were 2-0's and not much to mention and my losses were to Infect, Scales, Abzan, Mono Red Phoenix, and Hollow One Phoenix.
Infect loss was definitely me not playing regularly and therefore being less cutthroat. I could have Whir'ed for bridge and lock'ed game 1 (just draw for a finisher) but I knew his hand, and knew combo would kill him in 3 turns. His only out would be runner/runner blighted agent into become immense...never again. Needle on skite, bridge, and grid made quick work of game 2. Game 3 I got stuck on 2 lands with all action in hand.
Scales: KCI combo takes game 1. Game 2 my 2nd big punt, tapping out to dump 2nd bridge when he has inkmoth and I have combo. He topdecks Ravager for the kill. Game 3 another punt and probably the most painful, I whir for Revoker naming Ballista to lock him out of the game (Bridge, combo, 0 infect taken). I decided to get Revoker to be mana efficient knowing they don't play creature removal. What I forgot was that I do...next draw is damnation which I must cast since he has giant hangarbacks and a sac outlet. My 2nd needle ends the game on the spot as I have more jars then he has claims left.
Abzan: This is not a good matchup, and this deck was especially well positioned against us. 3 stony, 3 surgical, Pulse, 3 trophy, vraska, 4 Lotv, it was ugly.
Mono Red Phoenix: Inexperience got me here as I didn't know this was a deck, I knew how to play against UR phoenix and assumed this was similar. It's definitely more like a burn deck. He goldfishes game 1 (swiftspear into turn 2 manamorphose, faithless discard 2 phoenix lavaspike, into turn 3 double bolt under my 2 card bridge) I actually thought Game 1 he was just missing blue mana. Poor sideboarding and shrine of burning rage ended me (boarded out needle).
Hollow One Phoenix: Similar to Mono Red, I didn't know this was a deck and got blown out by Eidolon game 3 (Game 2 he had a wicked fast start with 2 ancient grudge back-up)
All in all, every match felt good except Abzan and I believe if I replayed these matches we should win all but 1 of them.
Notable decklist changes and thoughts:
Pretty last minute I locked in on Aether Grid over Decay/Trophy and am quite happy. Although it's probably worse against UW Control it fills a similar role, and against Spirits it's actually better (hard to fight through 6 enchantments) while also being effective against Leyline decks. By switching to Grid, I've upp'ed Jar to 2 and added skite to the board since my plan is to turtle game 2 behind bridge. This has proven much more consistent. I think it might even be right to add more of each in the board and go all-in on this plan a la Ben's list.
The 2nd jar replaced my 3rd CoBru, burn has been dropping in numbers and 2nd battle in the board being my justification.
4 unmoored ego: I didn't face a deck in which I wanted these, but they have been too necessary in the matchups I want them to cut. I think more data is still needed.
Damnation felt replaceable, and especially so after it single-handedly knocked me into my death spiral (first of 3 losses in a row on day 2).
2 Battle: these go really well with the game 2 durdle plan as a way to get back out of burn range while also hitting problem permanents like Kambal, hazoret, etc.
3 Tezzeret: This might be too many, although I dodged the boogeyman as I say this.
Revoker: Leaving it in for KCI at GPs, probably don't play it online.
I will be at Oakland next month so I will try to find time to get the reps in prior. Really think we're close here as 8 of the top 10 performing decks are fair matchups at worst.
A few comments have led me to wonder... I see everyone keeps 4 Mishra's Bauble come thick or thin. The 75 seems short on space to have all the best answers available because of the versatility of Whir. Is it possible Bauble is actually not the best thing? Like, if a list has 4 Bauble and 0 Nihil and 0 Pyrite, is it better with 2 Bauble and one of each bomb? Or even 0 Bauble and 4 bombs?
It's an interesting idea. Switching Baubles to 1 mana artifacts probably makes your Mox Opals a fair bit worse, might need to trim 1 or 2. I'm not really sure if it really makes Whir much worse. I tend to often not keep them around for use in Whirring, but it depends on the situation. Definitely late game it would often be nicer to be able to play a spellbomb and crack it to get the card immediately, rather than wait to get the card off a bauble. I've definitely had quite a few games where you're in a situation of "I need to draw Bridge or Whir to not die" and then you draw Bauble and you can still crack it immediately and hope for a whir, but a spellbomb could be nicer.
I might give it a try at some point soon, see how it feels.
I don't personally like the thopter Lantern hybrid at all. But that's more of a personal preference, I just find playing with or against lantern miserable, it's just a play style I hate
Hey nice write up Trav34! Congrats on the day 2, sounds like the day could have gone a bit better if you had a bit more prep time to dust off the rust.
I like a lot of things your list has going on in the flex slots and I wanted to touch on your thoughts on cutting the postboard hate answers (green spells) in favor of playing additional proactive alt Wincons that zigzag enchantments. Having played/watched/studied a lot of grixis whir's post board plans (in line with your approach), I still kinda like having some number of green spells, but I've definitely been trimming them in favor of proactive threats. I fully agree that we're seeing a trend with a lot of decks that pack a total of 3-6 stony/rip/leyline/etc type cards, and asking your gameplan to answer every one of them (even if you snag multiples with pulse) can be a tough challenge. I recently cut my last pulse and have been tying a more proactive postboard plan for these types of matchups.
I noticed you considered Jace, MA to hit from a different angle but I'm sure you're reluctant to sleeve it up due to the mana cost. I mentioned in a previous post that I've been testing Ashiok in one of these flex slots that play into this semi-transformative plan, as it operates largely like JMA would, but doesn't cost 4+cmc which is another thing I've been trying to trim in my 75. Wanted to see what you and everyone else thought of this. I played Ashiok in the past and ended up cutting it, but I've since been reintroducing old tech that seems like it might be good again.
I also think that Damnation has felt like a replaceable flex slot recently and have noticed a lot of people cutting the sweepers from the board. I've wanted to do additional further testing on Battle at the Bridge again, and I think for the time being, I'll swap this slot out and see if I miss it.
@TolariaWest - Baubles are just so valuable, but their value is really only noticed over the course of a lot of play. The fact that they are a free cantrip means a lot in the early turns, when you want to keep land-light hands. Against black decks, they're like super-charged cantrips that protect you from discard. That's all on top of their synergy with mox, bridge, fetches, whir, and Sai (if you play him). Having 1-drops is definitely important, but I don't feel the deck is crammed with no space. I often flex certain 1-drop spots based on how I feel the super-up-to-date MTGO meta looks.
@Dustycrumz re: push vs battle - You're right about us just preferring one set of advantages over the other. I think because I play 2 Muddle the Mixture, any decay or trophy I play in the board over a push has added value, which is why I went away from push completely.
re: LoTV - I would advocate going to two. She wins behind a bridge against stuff like spirits and humans like most walkers, but her added value against combo and control is great. I think Ashiok is OK, but the problem with him/her is that they don't apply much pressure as you tick them up. Compared to a Lili, or a Jace, or even another alt-win con like Grid or Sai, the mill-3 per turn isn't felt until a lot of turns have passed. I've actually considered the UG Nissa as a 3 CMC walker, as bother her +2 and 0 are decent, but her ultimate is lackluster and doesn't play with a bridge.
@Trav34 - Really interesting point about Revoker. I think it's absolutely necessary when you're likely to face KCI, like in a tournament, but just to jam MTGO leagues? I should probably cut it for something else because of the average chance of seeing KCI online. By the way, I've also made the mistake of choosing to whir for revoker over needle because of mana efficiency, only to lose the match (because the one creature removal spell I didn't expect them to have was their only out).
Great write-up, and insight about your own tournament experience and the deck's position. Another card out of the board that is good against removal/hate decks like Abzan is Sai, Master Thopterist.
I came to report back on playing with Lantern of Insight and Codex Shredder. To make room I tried -2 Pithing Needle, -4 Mishra's Bauble, -2 Inventor's Faire to make room for +4 Codex Shredder and + 4 Lantern.
Over time I was very impressed with the Shredders, they would mill Faithless Looting and Sword of the Meeks into the GY for card/selection advantage, and then at 5 mana I could use them to regrowth whatever I needed. There were a lot of MUs where regrowthing choice threats or answers was amazing. (Hello Tron! Would you like *another* Unmoored Ego?!) Shredder also diversified my win conditions, which feels like it's going to take some pressure off of my SB choices in a few MUs.
Over time I really didn't like Lantern. I started with 4, then went down to 3, then 2, then 1. I often ended up using it to reshuffle my deck to avoid a bad topdeck, which I guess is on par with drawing a card, but it just wasn't impressive for the space it was taking up.
I might cautiously say that Codex Shredder is better than Bauble in the Faithless Looting builds, and a great 1-drop if you're looking for good 1-drops and not satisfied with the current choices. I think I want the first three Pithing Needles first, but might play a Shredder main before Needle 4? Less clear about other builds, but it's entirely possible that so long as you are a 4x Sword build it's going to contribute excellent value.
I also confirmed the idea that playing with less than 2x Inventor's Faire tends to result in not-quite-finding your key pieces fast/often enough in highly interactive match-ups.
Been playing tezz for many years, Had many screen names but I always forget passwords ect so I have this one for now. Could never get behind putting tezz sb since he's the namesake of this deck until recently. I like tolaria West's idea of mb skites and now since it's basically just a find the combo ASAP deck why not try out glint-nest cranes again? I jammed a playset in my deck and it makes finding the combo easier and provides awesome blocks early on which is much needed.
I always thought about running a few shredders back when we were a more control style deck along side expedition maps for academy ruin and fair.with shredders and ruins you Could buy BK any relevant card in the deck pretty much over and over again. But it ended up being slow. But just a few shredders against say jund, and control decks seems fine. Although baubles are meh they are really nice have especially since they serve 2 purposes. I also run 2 mb EE. Sometimes I just wanna drop it down for mopal but sometimes it's a blowout like against humans. "EE doesn't care about Thalias tax"
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Ended up going 4-1.
Beat Bogles, Dredge, Storm, and Spirits. Then sadly losing the final round against Humans.
Spellskite main was obviously bonkers vs bogles, easiest match ever.
I lost Humans when they named Tezzeret with Meddling Mage, played Stony Silence and RIP, and finally a Teeg locked my out of any win conditions since I didn't bring in the Aether Grids. I didn't want to go all in on alt-wincons because humans often relies primarily on Knight of Autumn and often doesn't play the enchantments. Sadly teeg locked out my plan to eventually draw into Battle at the Bridge to kill Meddling Mage and play a tezz in the same turn.
In the end it's only one league so far, but I really liked the Faithless Lootings and spellskites. Spellskite buying some time blocking, and even providing defense against noble hierarch beatdown felt great. 4 skite + 4 Jars seemed like overkill, but in matchups like dredge where I was hiding behind bridge + cage for awhile, drawing more skites and jars just quickly meant I had more protection than they had hate.
I also really like Grid. I'd played it in the past, but haven't for a long time. I forgot just how strong of a card it is.
The lootings also felt quite good. I was convinced I'd like Serum Visions more, but there are lots of times I kinda don't like serum visions, when you're just trying to empty your hand for bridge, sometimes a cantrip can feel pretty bad. Lootings helping to also empty your hand for bridge was pretty great.
4 Pithing Needle did feel like a lot, but I also didn't hate it. It's one of those cards that when it's good it's GOOD.
I think the main thing I feel I might want is some other answer to Stony Silence, in a destroy effect. Something like Trophy, Wear/Tear, or Abrupt Decay, maybe. I could see maybe cutting like 1 Needle, 1 Jar for a couple of those effects. Maybe something like move the Battle at the Bridge to the main, cutting a pithing needle, and then cut a jar from the side for 2 Abrupt Decay. I think with 4 Opals and 4 Rainbow lands splashing green in the board is easy.
Anyway, just some of my thoughts, I think I'm going to keep playing with this list, I think I like it more than my previous BUG style list
2 Island
2 Inventors' Fair
4 Glimmervoid
4 Spire of Industry
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Darkslick Shores
Creatures
4 Spellskite
Spells
4 Faithless Looting
4 Whir of Invention
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Pithing Needle
4 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Damping Sphere
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Krark-Clain Ironworks
1 Bottled Cloister
4 Welding Jar
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Torpor Orb
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Unmoored Ego
Excellent Match-Ups - The deck has the easiest time with aggressive decks that pack disruption instead of burn due to the high redundancy of cards and combos available, and being able to fall to a low life total without consequence. Most are white and play RIP/Stony Silence post-board, so we need alternate win-cons.
Humans - Needle on Vial or Horizon Canopy. Looting can discard Sword around Meddling Mage.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -4 Pithing Needle
SB: +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +1 Torpror Orb, +3 Welding Jar
Spirits - Needle on Vial or Mausoleum Wanderer. Looting can discard Sword around Spell Queller. Whir for X > 2 if possible.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -4 Pithing Needle
SB: +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +1 Torpor Orb, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +2 Welding Jar
Eldrazi & Taxes - Needle on Vial or Eldrazi Displacer. Keep Flickerwisp, Strangler, and Displacer tricks in mind.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks, -2 Pithing Needle
SB: +1 Torpor Orb, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Boggles - Needle on Horizon Canopy. Post-board keep Needle on Seal of Primordium.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere
SB: +2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Very Favorable Match-Ups These decks tend to be explosive aggro decks that have minimal reach turned off by either Witchbane Orb, Spellskite, or Pithing Needle. They can sometimes win on speed or reach, but are usually contained in a timely fashion.
Hardened Scales - Usually Needle Arcbound Ravager first, unless you have a Spellskite + Bridge or there's a compelling problem on the table. Eventually a Needle (or Witchbane Orb) will be needed on Walking Ballista. Sometimes you need to needle Steel Overseer, Inkmoth Nexus, Throne of Geth and/or Module.
SB: -4 Sword of the Meek, -4 Thopter Foundry, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks, -1 Damping Spehre
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, +1 Phyrexian Revoker
-OR-
SB: -1 Damping Sphere, -1 Witchbane Orb, -2 Faithless Looting
SB: +4 Welding Jar
Hollow One - Needle a land.
SB: -3 Pithing Needle, -1 Witchbane Orb, (Keep one Needle for E.E.)
SB: +3 Welding Jar, +1 Grafdigger's Cage
Thing in the Ice - Needle a land.
SB: -4 Pithing Needle, -1 Witchbane Orb
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +1 Grafdigger's Cage
Reveler - Needle a land.
SB: -4 Pithing Needle
SB: +2 Welding Jar, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Torpor Orb
Dredge - Needle Shriekhorn or Wooded Foothills.
SB: -4 Pithing Needle, -1 Witchbane Orb
SB: +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +4 Welding Jar
Favorable Match-Ups - These match-ups you won't win all the time, but will win most of the time. These are fair interactive decks that just can't deal well with a resolved Thopter-Foundry and the endless value it creates. They also lean on planeswalkers which can be easily answered with Pithing Needle.
Azorious Control - Needle Teferi, then Search for Azcanta, then Jace. Jace can be killed by Thopters where Azcanta can't. Though it's reasonable to needle an active Jace. Usually name Cryptic Command with Ego, then Detention Sphere to protect your win-cons.
SB: - 3 Ensnaring Bridge, -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 KCI, -2 Mox Opal, -1 Damping Sphere
SB: + 4 Unmoored Ego, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +2 Tezzeret
Jund // Abzan //Golgari Midrange - Needle Liliana, unless you have an active Thopter-Sword in which case Ooze can be better.
SB: -3 Mox Opal, -2 Faithless Looting, -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +2 Tezzeet, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
Slightly Favorable Matches - These are combo decks (burn is a combo) that can beat you to the punch if you don't find the right cards really fast. I win these more often than I lose them, but I'm not surprised when I lose one of these.
Infect - Needle Inkmoth Nexus, Pendelhaven, or Horizon Canopy.
SB: -1 Damping Sphere, -1 Witchbane Orb, -4 Pithing Needle
SB +4 Welding Jar, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
Burn - Needle Arid Mesa
SB: -4 Pithing Needle, -1 Damping Sphere
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +1 Phyrexian Revoker
Titanshift - Needle Sakura-Tribe Elder or a land.
SB: -4 Pithing Needle, -1 Damping Sphere, -4 Sword of the Meek, -4 Thopter Foundry, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
SB: +4 Unmoored Ego, +4 Welding Jar, +1 Torpor Orb, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +2 Tezzeret, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
Tron - Needle Oblivion Stone or Karn first. Eventually need Ballista and Ugin.
SB: -4 Thopter Foundry, -4 Sword of the Meek, -1 KCI, -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +4 Unmoored Ego, +2 Tezzeret, +1 Phyrexian Revoker
Storm - Needle Scalding Tarn.
SB: -4 Sword of the Meek, -4 Thopter Foundry, -1 KCI, -4 Needle
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +2 Grid, +2 Tezzeret, +4 Unmoored Ego, +1 Grafdigger's Cage
Slightly Unfavorable Matchups These match-ups tend to consist of a fast clock plus disruption, either aggro-control or combo-control decks where their control aspect stops our prison aspect from checking their win cons. I win sometimes, but I lose a little more often.
4c Death's Shadow - Needle a land. You probably can't play around Stubborn Denial, but if you can do so.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -1 Damping Sphere, -4 Pithing Needle
SB: +4 Welding Jar, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid (maybe should have +1 Cage?)
Very Unfavorable Match-Ups There are some combo decks that are too hard to contain, and control decks that go deeper than us.
Krark-Clan Ironworks - Needle Engineered Explosives, then usually Inventors' Fair.
SB: -1 Witchbane Orb, -4 Sword of the Meek, -4 Thopter Foundry, -1 Krark-Clan Ironworks, -1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: +1 Phyrexian Revoker, +4 Unmoored Ego, +4 Welding Jar, +2 Tezzeret
Grixis Whir - Needle Engineered Explosives, then Academy Ruins and try to deck them. G1 Don't cast/use Bauble or Looting. Need Witchbane to stop Ipnu Rivulet recursion *before* they GQ your manabase out. You can also nut them with infinite thopters, but they get Bridge down pretty fast. G2 you can blindside them with Unmoored Ego for a key lock piece (Chalice or Witchbane Orb to leave them open to more Egos?) I think most of our paths to victory involve decking. They also have Tez and Grid, so they will likely Needle/Spyglass/Revoker these.
SB: -4 Faithless Looting, -1 Bottled Cloister, -4 Spellskite
SB: +4 Unmoored Ego, +2 Ghirapur Aether Grid, +2 Tezzeret, +1 Phyrexian Revoker
Humans - This is one of the many matchups where I really value the access to cheap instant speed removal to buy time/undo their "creature prison": Push > Battle
Spirits - If you Needle in the dark, I typically name Vial in Game 1, but Mausoleum Wanderer Game 2-3. The reason is that most lists have been playing about 3x Stony postboard, so there's a chance they might have sided out all Vials against you. Also regarding Spell Queller, Whir can be as low as X=2 since the total cmc is 5+ as long as X isn't =0-1.
Eldrazi & Taxes - Same as Spirits, this is a matchup where they have Vial main and usually Stony in the board.
Hardened Scales - Even though they beef up their creatures, ThopterSword is great here, as the combo acts as a pseudo-bridge with profitable trades or chump blocks. TBH, I like the second sideboard plan more than the first here, and I'd consider trimming on Lootings, as this is a matchup where I'd want to be trimming my own Serum Visions to stay tempo positive with my early board development and set up a Whir turn (though looting is a better spell than serum on the hellbent path). This also isn't necessarily correct, but you could also consider trimming a bridge or two, as drawing redundant copies can hurt despite being the card you really want to see.
Hollow One - Like with any deck that has a high% history of playing Leyline of the Void, consider bringing in an alt-wincon, despite being an aggro matchup. I don't always do it, but I have a note on my sideboard card to be conscious of this.
Azorious Control - Note that Unmoored Ego is much better here than it is in Jeskai Control.
Burn - Needle could also name Grim Lavamancer if they already have a decent amount of lands on board.
Storm - Needle Scalding Tarn (there isn't really a better target) - though note their land development. The recent consensus amongst Storm players has been to favor the non-fetchland manabase in order to free up sideboard slots that Blood Moon occupied. This can help give you information for games 2-3 on whether to aggressively fetch basics or not.
4c Death's Shadow - This is another matchup where push shines, as it can force a stub out of their hand EOT to clear the way for you to resolve something when you untap. I don't think this matchup is necessarily unfavorable, but it's not a walk in the park. The lines are hard here, just play tightly.
One you already know the type of role you're playing postboard for each matchup (generally speaking: Speed with Mox vs. Card Quality with Cantrips vs. Prison without ThopterSword), I've found it more valueable to have a sideboard guide regarding things like what Needle could name, if it's a Jar/Spellskite matchup and why, etc. rather than a list of "Ins/Outs". Even if I don't decide to say bring in 1x PW for a matchup with a 65+% chance to have Leyline of the Void or say keep a Needle in against burn for Lavamancer, being able to look at some quick notes keeps my mind thinking about the angles I should be concerned about so I feel I don't get caught off-guard. I have a 28-30 match notecard in my deckbox that I update regularly. But I know that isn't an approach for everyone, it's just something I've found a lot of success in doing and I highly recommend it.
@McGimp: I'm not sure there is a Discord for this group. Maybe @The_Nobodys knows? They've been here for 5 years...!
@All: I'm trying out Lantern-Shredder as early mana rocks/enablers on my stream tomorrow. Got a bunch of ideas borrowed from Grixis Whir or Lantern Control I want to test out in our shell over the next few days. (www.twitch.tv/tolariawest 9:30 AM - 2:30 PM PST M-T-Th-F).
Had a year or so break from Magic in overall and now that I returned it is time to brush up my modern skills again.
I really like the way the latest lists look like with wider toolbox in mainboard (graveyard hate for example) but I still like to play good old Tezz in the main instead of sideboard as many others seem to do.
Somebody mentioned problems against burn, so I came up with an idea for sideboard tech and I wanted to ask your opinions as well (ordered them already and gonna test when I can)
The card I am talking about is Fountain of Renewal and it would replace mainboard spellbombs and cage against burn and similar aggressive to the face decks that don't use graveyard.
I would probably be able to squeeze 3 of them in my side in my current list. What do you think?
I definitely realized after that humans game that due to Teeg, Grid would have been better. My thinking at the time was Knight of Autumn can blow up Grid, but not Tezz. I totally forgot about Teeg.
As for the spellbomb, it was mostly a case of I didn't want the full 4 Bridges, and I felt Spellbomb might be the most useful thing to have in the place of one of the bridges. I've always been quite happy with how 3 bridges felt in the deck. Given that graveyard strategies are so popular I think spellbomb is a good option, and you can cycle it while using it's ability which is nice. Though most graveyard decks are fairly decent matchups due to bridge, so I'm not really sure I care about the spellbomb. Pyrite Spellbomb could be an option. It has the same issue where most decks it's good against are already good matchups, but it can help cleanup things like Thalias, Meddling Mages, Teegs, Maelstrom Wanderers, Noble Heirarchs, etc. These all being cards that can still cause headaches for us.
I do like Academy Ruins over the 2nd Fair. I had double legendary lands, and I don't find myself activating Fair all that often. Likewise I don't activate Ruins all that often, but it's another one of those cards that when it's good, it's GOOD. Like they blow up a Foundry and you just pick it back up and replay it. Or more often then try to blow up something and you save it with Jar, then pick the Jar back up. Really kinda forces them into spots where they have to wait to have multiple answers in a turn, which sometimes just let's you draw your own redundant backups.
I do admit that Push vs Battle is a close decision and I think it ultimately comes down to picking which side of pros vs cons of each you prefer to have over the other. One pro that Battle definitely has going for it is the applications against Burn. The lifegain is huge (assuming they don't have skull crack/can kill you in response), but again, the tempo plays that push can exhibit don't really make it a significantly lesser spell to me against a deck like this.
As for Push vs green spells, I already have 2 Decay and I value the Pushes as 1-mana interaction over more 2-mana interaction in my list. I just haven't been fond of Trophy over Decay either, as the uncounterable clause is important when I need it to be and Trophy is a much worse turn 2 play than Decay when the targets are the same. The things that Trophy hits that Decay can't are either too big for bridge (Anglers, Titans, etc.), get hit by Needle (Planeswalkers), or get zig zagged by alt wincons (Stony/Rip). It's been a topic of interest for a while but it's not something I've missed having after cutting my last copy of Maelstrom Pulse. My recent sideboard testing was to see if being able to work around things like Leyline/Worship was better with removal or simply ignoring them. I've been trying the latter with a spread of Planeswalkers and have been pretty happy with it, as I'd also rather have additional proactive threats over sandbagging a pulse against decks like control where I am playing the proactive role and want to commit to the board as quickly as possible.
@TolariaWest: The more you trim on the 0's the harder it is to have a consistently impactful turn 3 Whir when you need it in a pinch. It's a similar approach to why a lot of players have favored Jar in the maindeck - Sure it can turn on early Mox and sometimes regenerate when needed, but the 0-cmc plays into the Hellbent bridge plan without having to do work for it, and also makes it easier to set up x=2/3 more consistently on turn 3 when you get to triple blue mana and whir in hand. This leaves room to allow you to cast other non-artifact spells on turns 1-2 while simultaneously setting up your big Turn 3 play. The difference between 0- and 1-cmc isn't nearly as detrimental as say adding another 2-cmc artifact, but being able to keep your mana open for as many spells as possible ahead of turn 3 is really important to consider. The decisions you make on turn 2 especially can really impact the shape of the game from there on out.
Just something I've been testing again, as it also really shines against the UW/BGx decks by itself (played a ton of it when it was in standard and as spicy SB tech in various modern decks). Not sure if I'm going to keep it in the long run, but have been happy with the results so far.
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
2 Spire of Industry
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Swamp
2 Misty Rainforest
Spells
4 Serum Visions
4 Whir of Invention
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fatal Push
3 Mox Opal
2 Welding Jar
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Pithing Needle
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Damping Sphere
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krark-Clain Ironworks
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Torpor Orb
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Unmoored Ego
1 Damnation
2 Battle at the Bridge
1 Spellskite
I'll preface by saying I haven't been playing as much as I'd like and it showed. I also didn't register my decklist in time (I'll never not pre-reg again). this combined with a mull to 5 stuck on 1 land resulted in a quick R2 Loss. However, I still made day 2 and the deck felt great.
Matchups included: WB Control, Hollow one, Dredge, UR Phoenix, Infect, Spirits, Hardened Scales, Abzan, Mono Red Phoenix, Hollow One Phoenix.
All my wins were 2-0's and not much to mention and my losses were to Infect, Scales, Abzan, Mono Red Phoenix, and Hollow One Phoenix.
Infect loss was definitely me not playing regularly and therefore being less cutthroat. I could have Whir'ed for bridge and lock'ed game 1 (just draw for a finisher) but I knew his hand, and knew combo would kill him in 3 turns. His only out would be runner/runner blighted agent into become immense...never again. Needle on skite, bridge, and grid made quick work of game 2. Game 3 I got stuck on 2 lands with all action in hand.
Scales: KCI combo takes game 1. Game 2 my 2nd big punt, tapping out to dump 2nd bridge when he has inkmoth and I have combo. He topdecks Ravager for the kill. Game 3 another punt and probably the most painful, I whir for Revoker naming Ballista to lock him out of the game (Bridge, combo, 0 infect taken). I decided to get Revoker to be mana efficient knowing they don't play creature removal. What I forgot was that I do...next draw is damnation which I must cast since he has giant hangarbacks and a sac outlet. My 2nd needle ends the game on the spot as I have more jars then he has claims left.
Abzan: This is not a good matchup, and this deck was especially well positioned against us. 3 stony, 3 surgical, Pulse, 3 trophy, vraska, 4 Lotv, it was ugly.
Mono Red Phoenix: Inexperience got me here as I didn't know this was a deck, I knew how to play against UR phoenix and assumed this was similar. It's definitely more like a burn deck. He goldfishes game 1 (swiftspear into turn 2 manamorphose, faithless discard 2 phoenix lavaspike, into turn 3 double bolt under my 2 card bridge) I actually thought Game 1 he was just missing blue mana. Poor sideboarding and shrine of burning rage ended me (boarded out needle).
Hollow One Phoenix: Similar to Mono Red, I didn't know this was a deck and got blown out by Eidolon game 3 (Game 2 he had a wicked fast start with 2 ancient grudge back-up)
All in all, every match felt good except Abzan and I believe if I replayed these matches we should win all but 1 of them.
Notable decklist changes and thoughts:
Pretty last minute I locked in on Aether Grid over Decay/Trophy and am quite happy. Although it's probably worse against UW Control it fills a similar role, and against Spirits it's actually better (hard to fight through 6 enchantments) while also being effective against Leyline decks. By switching to Grid, I've upp'ed Jar to 2 and added skite to the board since my plan is to turtle game 2 behind bridge. This has proven much more consistent. I think it might even be right to add more of each in the board and go all-in on this plan a la Ben's list.
The 2nd jar replaced my 3rd CoBru, burn has been dropping in numbers and 2nd battle in the board being my justification.
4 unmoored ego: I didn't face a deck in which I wanted these, but they have been too necessary in the matchups I want them to cut. I think more data is still needed.
Damnation felt replaceable, and especially so after it single-handedly knocked me into my death spiral (first of 3 losses in a row on day 2).
2 Battle: these go really well with the game 2 durdle plan as a way to get back out of burn range while also hitting problem permanents like Kambal, hazoret, etc.
3 Tezzeret: This might be too many, although I dodged the boogeyman as I say this.
Revoker: Leaving it in for KCI at GPs, probably don't play it online.
Considering: 4th bridge, Jace, Memory Adept, 1-2 Jar/Skites.
I will be at Oakland next month so I will try to find time to get the reps in prior. Really think we're close here as 8 of the top 10 performing decks are fair matchups at worst.
It's an interesting idea. Switching Baubles to 1 mana artifacts probably makes your Mox Opals a fair bit worse, might need to trim 1 or 2. I'm not really sure if it really makes Whir much worse. I tend to often not keep them around for use in Whirring, but it depends on the situation. Definitely late game it would often be nicer to be able to play a spellbomb and crack it to get the card immediately, rather than wait to get the card off a bauble. I've definitely had quite a few games where you're in a situation of "I need to draw Bridge or Whir to not die" and then you draw Bauble and you can still crack it immediately and hope for a whir, but a spellbomb could be nicer.
I might give it a try at some point soon, see how it feels.
I don't personally like the thopter Lantern hybrid at all. But that's more of a personal preference, I just find playing with or against lantern miserable, it's just a play style I hate
I like a lot of things your list has going on in the flex slots and I wanted to touch on your thoughts on cutting the postboard hate answers (green spells) in favor of playing additional proactive alt Wincons that zigzag enchantments. Having played/watched/studied a lot of grixis whir's post board plans (in line with your approach), I still kinda like having some number of green spells, but I've definitely been trimming them in favor of proactive threats. I fully agree that we're seeing a trend with a lot of decks that pack a total of 3-6 stony/rip/leyline/etc type cards, and asking your gameplan to answer every one of them (even if you snag multiples with pulse) can be a tough challenge. I recently cut my last pulse and have been tying a more proactive postboard plan for these types of matchups.
I noticed you considered Jace, MA to hit from a different angle but I'm sure you're reluctant to sleeve it up due to the mana cost. I mentioned in a previous post that I've been testing Ashiok in one of these flex slots that play into this semi-transformative plan, as it operates largely like JMA would, but doesn't cost 4+cmc which is another thing I've been trying to trim in my 75. Wanted to see what you and everyone else thought of this. I played Ashiok in the past and ended up cutting it, but I've since been reintroducing old tech that seems like it might be good again.
I also think that Damnation has felt like a replaceable flex slot recently and have noticed a lot of people cutting the sweepers from the board. I've wanted to do additional further testing on Battle at the Bridge again, and I think for the time being, I'll swap this slot out and see if I miss it.
@Dustycrumz re: push vs battle - You're right about us just preferring one set of advantages over the other. I think because I play 2 Muddle the Mixture, any decay or trophy I play in the board over a push has added value, which is why I went away from push completely.
re: LoTV - I would advocate going to two. She wins behind a bridge against stuff like spirits and humans like most walkers, but her added value against combo and control is great. I think Ashiok is OK, but the problem with him/her is that they don't apply much pressure as you tick them up. Compared to a Lili, or a Jace, or even another alt-win con like Grid or Sai, the mill-3 per turn isn't felt until a lot of turns have passed. I've actually considered the UG Nissa as a 3 CMC walker, as bother her +2 and 0 are decent, but her ultimate is lackluster and doesn't play with a bridge.
@Trav34 - Really interesting point about Revoker. I think it's absolutely necessary when you're likely to face KCI, like in a tournament, but just to jam MTGO leagues? I should probably cut it for something else because of the average chance of seeing KCI online. By the way, I've also made the mistake of choosing to whir for revoker over needle because of mana efficiency, only to lose the match (because the one creature removal spell I didn't expect them to have was their only out).
Great write-up, and insight about your own tournament experience and the deck's position. Another card out of the board that is good against removal/hate decks like Abzan is Sai, Master Thopterist.
Over time I was very impressed with the Shredders, they would mill Faithless Looting and Sword of the Meeks into the GY for card/selection advantage, and then at 5 mana I could use them to regrowth whatever I needed. There were a lot of MUs where regrowthing choice threats or answers was amazing. (Hello Tron! Would you like *another* Unmoored Ego?!) Shredder also diversified my win conditions, which feels like it's going to take some pressure off of my SB choices in a few MUs.
Over time I really didn't like Lantern. I started with 4, then went down to 3, then 2, then 1. I often ended up using it to reshuffle my deck to avoid a bad topdeck, which I guess is on par with drawing a card, but it just wasn't impressive for the space it was taking up.
I might cautiously say that Codex Shredder is better than Bauble in the Faithless Looting builds, and a great 1-drop if you're looking for good 1-drops and not satisfied with the current choices. I think I want the first three Pithing Needles first, but might play a Shredder main before Needle 4? Less clear about other builds, but it's entirely possible that so long as you are a 4x Sword build it's going to contribute excellent value.
I also confirmed the idea that playing with less than 2x Inventor's Faire tends to result in not-quite-finding your key pieces fast/often enough in highly interactive match-ups.