The real comparison is how many times you NEED to tap talisman for mana after turn 4-5 (don't count things like thopter activations) vs. how many times turboing out bridge/thopter/whir/tezz NEEDS to happen a turn earlier to win the game. In the case of big mana/combo/super aggro decks, which are our worst matchups, the turbo effect has a much bigger impact on our win %. I always want Pentad in my opener. In the case of grindy matchups, well we're probably gonna draw into the lands we need anyways and their clock is much slower.
I appreciate the want of a "turbo effect" that powers out your combo, but I would ask that you specify how prism creates a turbo effect. If the goal is to whir into the combo, then a 0 cmc artifact provides the combo on turn 4 just like pentad does. If the goal is to turn 3 whir for bridge, then yes, prism is the only card that really enables that - but then as I asked in the post above, how many cards in hand when bridge comes down turn 3? Is it actually stopping anythting on turn 3? I maintain the only actually useful explosive play with prism is to ramp to tezz turn 3.
I know I'm comparing their usefulness to 0 cmc artifacts, and having both increases the consistence of ramping with whir. I'd just like to address that they may not be needed.
@the nobodys: Pentad Prism is one of the very few cards that is worth more than +1 for Whir of Invention and it is even +1 the turn you play it. The next turn it is +3 for Whir of Invention.
Consider these scenarios:
T1 Land, T2 Land +Talsiman, T3 Land + Whir X=1
or
T1 Land, T2 Land + Pentad, T3 Land + Whir X=3
Easy to see which is better. But to illustrate your argument a little better lets compare to what you would need to be similar without it:
T1 Land +0 Cost Artifact +1 Cost Artifact, T2 land + 2 Cost Artifact, T3 Land + Whir X=3
As you can see you didn't need to play a Pentad Prism on 3 but it required you spend 2 additional cards and that you had those additional cards in your hand. I would much prefer to have cheap interaction + Prism than a bunch of weak artifacts.
IN a more creature centric deck this makes sense as you would rather play creatures for an on board tempo gain rather than be playing zero mana artifacts to be activating whir.
But the "turbo" list that is more on the ensnaring bridge/thoptersword plan is already playing 4 bauble, 3 opal, and two welding jars in order to enable faster and higher improvise Whirs and earlier Tezz. In fact another 0 mana artifact that has utility is something the deck actively wants but does not exist in modern. Pentad prism acting as a pseudo-zero mana artifact that also enables fixing and acceleration is why its getting played.
I think your criticism of it "Only being a zero mana artifact with upside" is the reason its good in the deck and its being played.
After tinkering with this deck since the start of the year here is where I am currently after playing this a lot, and reading updates / seeing recent videos.
One of the things I have found being a long time Jund player is that the hand disruption is quite powerful in the metagame, and many decks that run black also lean on that as early plays. I went to the 4/3 split to be more consistent with turn 1 plays. The main deck focuses on either the Ensaring Bridge plan, the Thopter + Tezz ult plan, or the infinite turns plan.
After tinkering with this deck since the start of the year here is where I am currently after playing this a lot, and reading updates / seeing recent videos.
One of the things I have found being a long time Jund player is that the hand disruption is quite powerful in the metagame, and many decks that run black also lean on that as early plays. I went to the 4/3 split to be more consistent with turn 1 plays. The main deck focuses on either the Ensaring Bridge plan, the Thopter + Tezz ult plan, or the infinite turns plan.
The list looks pretty decent imo, although you are clearly all-in on discard which is meta-dependent; i.e. your topdecks will be much worse but your early game much safer. I think 3 duress in addition to 4/3/2 discard is definitely overkill. There are decks that don't care as much about discard. Also, I do warn you about your mana base as you will lose some games to it/mulligan more; I see 6 colorless lands and very high color demands in UUU, BB, GB. I recommend a 2nd needle in the side and maybe sun droplet or 4th push. Good luck let us know how it operates!
Regarding a new utility artifact, I'd really like something like a 1 CMC colorless spellbomb. tap: sacrifice, you have hexproof until end of turn. If you pay "colorless," draw a card when enters graveyard. Or for 0 CMC drop the draw text.
I echo @Trav here on the (over)abundance of discard spells in your list. I remember Collective Brutality is also a (bad) Duress but that's good enough most times against counterspells, spell-based combo, most forms of hate (Shatterstorm & K-command). But it also doubles up as removal for Pests, Guides and Hierarch as well as flipping the Burn match-up on its head. And sometimes you just get to drain 2 for the kill and giggle. Definitely move into this.
Echo as well on greedy mana-base. And tri-color at that. Remember that Prism isn't fixing you if you ain't got colors to start with. With the current proposed configuration, you *will* feel the strain.
Private Mod Note
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Hey gents. Have had a couple requests for a SB guide in private so here's a rough draft. Most of the time I keep things in motion, but for the sake of putting down guidelines, we can start with this. I basically see this as a work document; your input is most welcome and if better solutions are found, I will update this post in light of them.
+2 Thoughtseize, +1 Duress, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +2 Damnation, (+2 Herald of Anguish?);
-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Thopter Foundry, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Collective Brutality, -1 Ghost Quarter
Notes:
- Star match-ups (*) aren't as solved, SB-wise, as I'd like. We can start from there however, as I said, input most welcome.
- I should specify that, when I side out Ghost Quarter, it's because I consider that with careful mulligans the deck with the turbo package can operate on 21 lands just fine. This is especially true since I've started running an Expedition Map.
- I noticed that Crucible tends to be sided out a lot, even though I love the card. It's too bad. It's true that at the end of the day, the turbo package is taking up some precious slots. Food for thought. There might be something to be fixed here.
- Lastly, I'm finding out that I really don't know what to do with Herald of Anguish anymore, when exactly I want it in and what to side out for it. What it's function is, beside the cutesy bait-n-switch (but so slow). Anyway I'm still keeping my hopes up, and running two!
Some comments, nothing definitive just some thoughts.
+1 Pithing Needle, +1 Herald of Anguish, +2 Damnation;
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Ghost Quarter
I prefer leaving sword in here and not adding Herald, but idk for sure.
+2 Thoughtseize, +1 Duress, +1 Pithing Needle, +1 Quicksilver Fountain, +1 Damnation;
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Fatal Push, -3 Collective Brutality
Herald is good here IMO, I would be off the thoptersword combo completely because its unlikely you are going to outgrind them. Also you want your surgicals here i think.
Personally I am fully off the bridge and thopter sword plan here and fully on Herald of Anguish and Tezz beats. I know you have a decent amount of testing here but just my thoughts.
Once again I am normally off the bridge plan here and go down to one each of the combo. Herald of Anguish is good here (except when it lets them PiF easier. Also you definitely want witchbane orb even though it doesn't stop empty the warrens.)
+2 Thoughtseize, +1 Duress, +1 Welding Jar, +2 Damnation;
-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Thopter Foundry, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -2 Collective Brutality
I bring in Quicksilver fountain as they are basically a 4 colour deck playing sol lands. It does work any time I play it. Watch for people trying to still use temples as sol lands!
Herald of Anguish is good here, another beater to go in with
Just a general sideboard question, Why the copy of duress over another copy of thoughtseize? in my experience you almost always want the flexibility of thoughtseize and the match-ups where you are bringing in discard the 2 life isn't as relevant. Is there any match-up in particular where it makes a big enough difference?
Any non-white or LotV deck I am eager to jam herald even as a one of normally replacing Collected Brutality or Push. I still think his inclusion is a meta call as my meta is has a lot of combo, which is why I run 3.
Going down to a single copy SB in a more creature oriented meta with lots more Kommands running around could be a good choice, likely subbing one for Padeem? or maybe even welding jar #4
/e: Duress, my meta is very Burn and Grixis heavy. It's in over TS #3 in Burn for obvious reasons, but in Grixis I find it's their counterspell suites and K-command I'm having the most trouble with as their fatties can just be Bridge'd out of the game. Duress fits both these bills. Works for Tron, works against Stony Silence, etc. But Burn really is the main reason.
Herald: yeah I think it's way easier to manage one Herald than two. Siding in two is quite the commitment.
Easy to see which is better. But to illustrate your argument a little better lets compare to what you would need to be similar without it:
T1 Land +0 Cost Artifact +1 Cost Artifact, T2 land + 2 Cost Artifact, T3 Land + Whir X=3
As you can see you didn't need to play a Pentad Prism on 3 but it required you spend 2 additional cards and that you had those additional cards in your hand. I would much prefer to have cheap interaction + Prism than a bunch of weak artifacts.
To be clear, my point is that I'm not looking to whir x=3 on turn three, like hardly ever. If I drop nothing but lands and a prism and a whir for bridge by turn three and I'm on the play, I have 4 cards left in hand (3 if I also drop a 0 cmc). That isn't stopping dredge, burn, elves, or anything for that turn. I do consistently whir for x=2 on turn three after dropping a combo piece and one cmc 0.
If there were some bomb 4 or 5 cmc artifacts I wanted go play, then I'd definitely run prism. I just don't see it doing anything that my moxes/baubles/jars don't already do. But I realize I'm in the minority here, so I'll let my arguments sit for now. I appreciate the replies and discussion you guys have offered on the subject of prism.
Popping in just to mention that tonight @ LGS I've shredded Merfolk (2-0), Grixis control (2-0) and UB Faeries (2-0) to pieces only then to get out-grinded myself in the pesudo-mirror by @Ace1, on his unstoppable streak going 4-0 with Trawler Tezz!
Congrats on the results! Is there a Scrap Trawler list posted anywhere? I've been running the list linked below for awhile and wanted to test out swapping Trawler for the 2 Cranes. The List is supposed to be a more grindy, resilient version as the turbo version doesn't fit my play style.
I think in that sense Scrap Trawler fits better to get bullets back or artifacts that have been discarded/destroyed. On the other hand I haven't cut Crane for so long because so many games come to top decking and Crane's a great one. I'd like to hear from someone who's tested Trawler though, and any criticism on my list is very welcome!
Popping in just to mention that tonight @ LGS I've shredded Merfolk (2-0), Grixis control (2-0) and UB Faeries (2-0) to pieces only then to get out-grinded myself in the pesudo-mirror by @Ace1, on his unstoppable streak going 4-0 with Trawler Tezz!
Good night for the archetype ::)
Those matches we had we epic, really enjoyed them!
So mini-report time
R1 2-0 vs grixis control (the same guy radouf beat round 2): G1 my opponent had zero pressure, and i was able to chip life points with glint-nest cranes and thopter tokens. G2 was a lot closer. Things turned in my favor when i landed herald of anguish and started the beat down, facing down tasigur, the golden fang. Going into time i make a mistake by making a bunch of tokens with thopter sword while knowing my opponent had vandalblast. The life gain was enough to put me out of reach of the swingback but if my opponent had any burn spell i was dead. But he didn't...
R2 2-0 vs bant company (with a bunch of value creatures): Don't remember the details but games weren't very close, i just had the answers and pressure needed to close the games.
R3 2-0 vs Radouf's tezzerator: very long games, but G1 we both had a bunch of stuff, i got tezz and made a darksteel citadel 5/5. Then radouf got tezz and made a NON indestructible 5/5. I damnation then kill tezz. He tezz again and kills my tezz with another 5/5. I then kill tezz again after Radouf's non indestructible 5/5 chumps. Later i got the combo online facing bridge and a bunch of welding jars. I eventually got ratchet bomb to 3 and engineered explosives on zero to kill the jars then the bridges, clearing the path for my thopters.
G2 was awesome. Radouf starts with expedition map, mishra's bauble and mox opal. I start with pithing needle on map, which turned out great. Radouf had to burn an extra opal to play vendilion clique on himself, which turned out pretty bad when i played my glint-nest crane. Then we began needling our stuff and to board was stalled, but Radouf had ensnaring bridge, crucible of worlds + ghost quarter + inventor's fair, needle on my ratchet bomb and a couple of welding jars. Luckily my deck features 3 swamps and one island plus the 3 darksteel citadels i had, which made me survive GQ for a few turn, until i got a second needle on ghost quarter to not get strip mined to death. I eventually drew the combo and started making tokens, plus i got herald. I made the mistake of EE for one: Radouf's jars saved the needle on bomb, but i lost my needles... And then i topdeck echoing truth, bounced the bridges and attacked for the win!
R4 win 2-1 vs knightfall bant CoCo. G1 i got the answers for everything, nihil spellbomb keep knight of the reliquary in check. G2 my opponent stony silenced me and spell quellered my damnation. I was able to make some token by echoing truthing the stony end step but that wasn't enough, queller was guarding the sky and a bunch of tireless tracker beat me down, they were able to grow after i bouned stony, allowing my opponent to crack his clues. G3 no stony from my opponent. He got to a board of triple 3 drops and a selfless spirit. I got explosives on 3 (thanks to godless shrine x1) followed by needle on spirit, allowing me to crack explosives for profit. Then we stalled a bit and i got herald of anguish, which cleared away all opposing threats with the help of an hangarback walker on 3, and then beat my opponent to death.
@ace how's your tron matchup and whats your gameplan/sideboard plan? good to see the deck performing well!
Honestly i haven't had the chance to play much vs tron. My plan would be to side in duress x4 and quicksilver x2 and hope that's good enough. I really wish i had gotten the chance to play this matchup much.
Exactly, the only reason its here is for that. I used to play spire of industry but since i have more breathing room with my mana (no triple blue) i opted for shrine because i can search for it with all my fetchlands, giving me the chance of having it more often than just with spires. Most game i don't even need it but it can be the difference between winning or losing in some matchups.
I can tell you that Tron is a tough match-up if you get to the late game. Their threats don't care about Bridge or Tezzeret. My LGS has 4 tron players and I struggle with both of them. Now this could be because I did not draw the hate cards, but each time I played them I would be staring down a Karn/Ulamog/World Breaker. It was really rough.
I appreciate the want of a "turbo effect" that powers out your combo, but I would ask that you specify how prism creates a turbo effect. If the goal is to whir into the combo, then a 0 cmc artifact provides the combo on turn 4 just like pentad does. If the goal is to turn 3 whir for bridge, then yes, prism is the only card that really enables that - but then as I asked in the post above, how many cards in hand when bridge comes down turn 3? Is it actually stopping anythting on turn 3? I maintain the only actually useful explosive play with prism is to ramp to tezz turn 3.
I know I'm comparing their usefulness to 0 cmc artifacts, and having both increases the consistence of ramping with whir. I'd just like to address that they may not be needed.
Consider these scenarios:
T1 Land, T2 Land +Talsiman, T3 Land + Whir X=1
or
T1 Land, T2 Land + Pentad, T3 Land + Whir X=3
Easy to see which is better. But to illustrate your argument a little better lets compare to what you would need to be similar without it:
T1 Land +0 Cost Artifact +1 Cost Artifact, T2 land + 2 Cost Artifact, T3 Land + Whir X=3
As you can see you didn't need to play a Pentad Prism on 3 but it required you spend 2 additional cards and that you had those additional cards in your hand. I would much prefer to have cheap interaction + Prism than a bunch of weak artifacts.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
IN a more creature centric deck this makes sense as you would rather play creatures for an on board tempo gain rather than be playing zero mana artifacts to be activating whir.
But the "turbo" list that is more on the ensnaring bridge/thoptersword plan is already playing 4 bauble, 3 opal, and two welding jars in order to enable faster and higher improvise Whirs and earlier Tezz. In fact another 0 mana artifact that has utility is something the deck actively wants but does not exist in modern. Pentad prism acting as a pseudo-zero mana artifact that also enables fixing and acceleration is why its getting played.
I think your criticism of it "Only being a zero mana artifact with upside" is the reason its good in the deck and its being played.
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Sorcery (7)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
Instant (7)
4 Whir of Invention
3 Fatal Push
Artifacts (20)
4 Pentad Prism
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Welding Jar
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Time Sieve
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Mox Opal
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventor's Fair
1 Swamp
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Duress
2 Damnation
2 Collective Brutality
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Forest
One of the things I have found being a long time Jund player is that the hand disruption is quite powerful in the metagame, and many decks that run black also lean on that as early plays. I went to the 4/3 split to be more consistent with turn 1 plays. The main deck focuses on either the Ensaring Bridge plan, the Thopter + Tezz ult plan, or the infinite turns plan.
From the board I put in a Forest to have access to non-basic green under either Stony Silence or Blood Moon. I am also running Damnation over Herald of Anguish as the decks that run Stony Silence may leave in Path to Exile to deal with 5/5s that Tezz makes.
Thoughts?
MODERN
BRG Jund
WU Control
UBRG Dredge
BG Elves
G Tron
Affinity
Building:
WR Boros Burn
UB Tezzerator
I also play Legacy, and EDH. Follow me at MTGPackFoils on Twitter.
The list looks pretty decent imo, although you are clearly all-in on discard which is meta-dependent; i.e. your topdecks will be much worse but your early game much safer. I think 3 duress in addition to 4/3/2 discard is definitely overkill. There are decks that don't care as much about discard. Also, I do warn you about your mana base as you will lose some games to it/mulligan more; I see 6 colorless lands and very high color demands in UUU, BB, GB. I recommend a 2nd needle in the side and maybe sun droplet or 4th push. Good luck let us know how it operates!
Regarding a new utility artifact, I'd really like something like a 1 CMC colorless spellbomb. tap: sacrifice, you have hexproof until end of turn. If you pay "colorless," draw a card when enters graveyard. Or for 0 CMC drop the draw text.
Echo as well on greedy mana-base. And tri-color at that. Remember that Prism isn't fixing you if you ain't got colors to start with. With the current proposed configuration, you *will* feel the strain.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Firstly, the deck:
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4x Whir of Invention
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Expedition Map
2x Thopter Foundry
2x Sword of the Meek
4x Mishra's Bauble
Bullets
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Welding jar
Disruption
1x Executioner's Capsule
3x Fatal Push
3x Collective Brutality
3x Mox Opal
4x Pentad Prism
3x Ghost Quarter
1x Inventors' Fair
1x Academy Ruins
4x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
3x Watery Grave
4x Darkslick Shores
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Welding Jar
1x Pithing Needle
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Quicksilver Fountain
1x Witchbane Orb
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
1x Duress
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Herald of Anguish
2x Damnation
-3 Collective Brutality, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Sword of the Meek.
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Executioner's Capsule, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Fatal Push, -1 Collective Brutality.
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Fatal Push, -3 Collective Brutality
-1 Thopter Foundry, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Executioner's Capsule, -2 Fatal Push, -1 Collective Brutality, -1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Executioner's Capsule, -1 Fatal Push, -2 Collective Brutality, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Sword of the Meek, -3 Fatal Push, -3 Collective Brutality, -1 Ensnaring Bridge
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Ensnaring Bridge, -1 Executioner's Capsule, -1 Fatal Push, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Thopter Foundry, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -2 Collective Brutality
-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Sword of the Meek, -2 Collective Brutality, -1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Ensnaring Bridge, -3 Fatal Push, -1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Pithing Needle, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -2 Welding Jar
-1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Pithing Needle, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Ensnaring Bridge, -3 Fatal Push
-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Thopter Foundry, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Collective Brutality, -1 Ghost Quarter
Notes:
- Star match-ups (*) aren't as solved, SB-wise, as I'd like. We can start from there however, as I said, input most welcome.
- I should specify that, when I side out Ghost Quarter, it's because I consider that with careful mulligans the deck with the turbo package can operate on 21 lands just fine. This is especially true since I've started running an Expedition Map.
- I noticed that Crucible tends to be sided out a lot, even though I love the card. It's too bad. It's true that at the end of the day, the turbo package is taking up some precious slots. Food for thought. There might be something to be fixed here.
- Lastly, I'm finding out that I really don't know what to do with Herald of Anguish anymore, when exactly I want it in and what to side out for it. What it's function is, beside the cutesy bait-n-switch (but so slow). Anyway I'm still keeping my hopes up, and running two!
Let me know what y'all think. Cheers.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Some comments, nothing definitive just some thoughts.
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Ghost Quarter
I prefer leaving sword in here and not adding Herald, but idk for sure.
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Fatal Push, -3 Collective Brutality
Herald is good here IMO, I would be off the thoptersword combo completely because its unlikely you are going to outgrind them. Also you want your surgicals here i think.
-1 Thopter Foundry, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Executioner's Capsule, -2 Fatal Push, -1 Collective Brutality, -1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Executioner's Capsule, -1 Fatal Push, -2 Collective Brutality, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Ghost Quarter
Herald is pretty good here
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Sword of the Meek, -3 Fatal Push, -3 Collective Brutality, -1 Ensnaring Bridge
Personally I am fully off the bridge and thopter sword plan here and fully on Herald of Anguish and Tezz beats. I know you have a decent amount of testing here but just my thoughts.
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Ensnaring Bridge, -1 Executioner's Capsule, -1 Fatal Push, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Ghost Quarter
Once again I am normally off the bridge plan here and go down to one each of the combo. Herald of Anguish is good here (except when it lets them PiF easier. Also you definitely want witchbane orb even though it doesn't stop empty the warrens.)
-1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Thopter Foundry, -1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -2 Collective Brutality
I bring in Quicksilver fountain as they are basically a 4 colour deck playing sol lands. It does work any time I play it. Watch for people trying to still use temples as sol lands!
-1 Sword of the Meek, -1 Pithing Needle, -1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Ensnaring Bridge, -3 Fatal Push
Herald of Anguish is good here, another beater to go in with
Just a general sideboard question, Why the copy of duress over another copy of thoughtseize? in my experience you almost always want the flexibility of thoughtseize and the match-ups where you are bringing in discard the 2 life isn't as relevant. Is there any match-up in particular where it makes a big enough difference?
Any non-white or LotV deck I am eager to jam herald even as a one of normally replacing Collected Brutality or Push. I still think his inclusion is a meta call as my meta is has a lot of combo, which is why I run 3.
Going down to a single copy SB in a more creature oriented meta with lots more Kommands running around could be a good choice, likely subbing one for Padeem? or maybe even welding jar #4
Abzan: Midrange, like the label says
/e: Duress, my meta is very Burn and Grixis heavy. It's in over TS #3 in Burn for obvious reasons, but in Grixis I find it's their counterspell suites and K-command I'm having the most trouble with as their fatties can just be Bridge'd out of the game. Duress fits both these bills. Works for Tron, works against Stony Silence, etc. But Burn really is the main reason.
Herald: yeah I think it's way easier to manage one Herald than two. Siding in two is quite the commitment.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Decktech and Matches
To be clear, my point is that I'm not looking to whir x=3 on turn three, like hardly ever. If I drop nothing but lands and a prism and a whir for bridge by turn three and I'm on the play, I have 4 cards left in hand (3 if I also drop a 0 cmc). That isn't stopping dredge, burn, elves, or anything for that turn. I do consistently whir for x=2 on turn three after dropping a combo piece and one cmc 0.
If there were some bomb 4 or 5 cmc artifacts I wanted go play, then I'd definitely run prism. I just don't see it doing anything that my moxes/baubles/jars don't already do. But I realize I'm in the minority here, so I'll let my arguments sit for now. I appreciate the replies and discussion you guys have offered on the subject of prism.
Good night for the archetype ::)
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I think in that sense Scrap Trawler fits better to get bullets back or artifacts that have been discarded/destroyed. On the other hand I haven't cut Crane for so long because so many games come to top decking and Crane's a great one. I'd like to hear from someone who's tested Trawler though, and any criticism on my list is very welcome!
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/15-10-16-tezzerator/
(Apologies I'm terrible with these deck tags)
Those matches we had we epic, really enjoyed them!
So mini-report time
R1 2-0 vs grixis control (the same guy radouf beat round 2): G1 my opponent had zero pressure, and i was able to chip life points with glint-nest cranes and thopter tokens. G2 was a lot closer. Things turned in my favor when i landed herald of anguish and started the beat down, facing down tasigur, the golden fang. Going into time i make a mistake by making a bunch of tokens with thopter sword while knowing my opponent had vandalblast. The life gain was enough to put me out of reach of the swingback but if my opponent had any burn spell i was dead. But he didn't...
R2 2-0 vs bant company (with a bunch of value creatures): Don't remember the details but games weren't very close, i just had the answers and pressure needed to close the games.
R3 2-0 vs Radouf's tezzerator: very long games, but G1 we both had a bunch of stuff, i got tezz and made a darksteel citadel 5/5. Then radouf got tezz and made a NON indestructible 5/5. I damnation then kill tezz. He tezz again and kills my tezz with another 5/5. I then kill tezz again after Radouf's non indestructible 5/5 chumps. Later i got the combo online facing bridge and a bunch of welding jars. I eventually got ratchet bomb to 3 and engineered explosives on zero to kill the jars then the bridges, clearing the path for my thopters.
G2 was awesome. Radouf starts with expedition map, mishra's bauble and mox opal. I start with pithing needle on map, which turned out great. Radouf had to burn an extra opal to play vendilion clique on himself, which turned out pretty bad when i played my glint-nest crane. Then we began needling our stuff and to board was stalled, but Radouf had ensnaring bridge, crucible of worlds + ghost quarter + inventor's fair, needle on my ratchet bomb and a couple of welding jars. Luckily my deck features 3 swamps and one island plus the 3 darksteel citadels i had, which made me survive GQ for a few turn, until i got a second needle on ghost quarter to not get strip mined to death. I eventually drew the combo and started making tokens, plus i got herald. I made the mistake of EE for one: Radouf's jars saved the needle on bomb, but i lost my needles... And then i topdeck echoing truth, bounced the bridges and attacked for the win!
R4 win 2-1 vs knightfall bant CoCo. G1 i got the answers for everything, nihil spellbomb keep knight of the reliquary in check. G2 my opponent stony silenced me and spell quellered my damnation. I was able to make some token by echoing truthing the stony end step but that wasn't enough, queller was guarding the sky and a bunch of tireless tracker beat me down, they were able to grow after i bouned stony, allowing my opponent to crack his clues. G3 no stony from my opponent. He got to a board of triple 3 drops and a selfless spirit. I got explosives on 3 (thanks to godless shrine x1) followed by needle on spirit, allowing me to crack explosives for profit. Then we stalled a bit and i got herald of anguish, which cleared away all opposing threats with the help of an hangarback walker on 3, and then beat my opponent to death.
Yay, fun times!
My current list:
3 hangarback walker
1 walking ballista
4 glint-nest crane
2 scrap trawler
2 trinket mage
2 herald of anguish
Artifacts: 14
1 engineered explosives
2 pithing needle
2 nihil spellbomb
2 executioner's capsule
4 thopter foundry
2 sword of the meek
1 ratchet bomb
4 fatal push
sorceries: 2
2 damnation
planeswalkers: 2
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas
Lands: 24
4 polluted delta
3 bloodstained mire
2 watery grave
1 godless shrine
1 island
3 swamp
3 drowned catacomb
1 Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth
1 inventors' fair
1 academy ruins
4 darksteel citadel
4 duress
2 battle at the bridge
2 echoing truth
2 quicksilver fountain
2 grafdigger's cage
1 hope of ghirapur
1 basilisk collar
1 welding jar
Honestly i haven't had the chance to play much vs tron. My plan would be to side in duress x4 and quicksilver x2 and hope that's good enough. I really wish i had gotten the chance to play this matchup much.
Exactly, the only reason its here is for that. I used to play spire of industry but since i have more breathing room with my mana (no triple blue) i opted for shrine because i can search for it with all my fetchlands, giving me the chance of having it more often than just with spires. Most game i don't even need it but it can be the difference between winning or losing in some matchups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf0DLsON_6k
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
/e: should watch, allz. Includes Brutality for the kill, and multiple Crucible of Worlds win among other things -- and countless punts ofc!
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.