@Headminerve: Besides blocking, Skite still redirects Cryptics (on the uptick) and Karn +1's and other Tron nonsense (on the uptick too!). There aren't only downsides. In my local meta both those decks are rampant so i like my little Skite
@Molz: Decklist looks great. Padeem, good trump card vs all the hate! In a Lantern'ised shell with the updated Thopter and Tezz capabilities, it makes way more sense. With the top control you have, and with the fact that so much of the extra cards you're going to draw are low-casting cost trinkets, you're way less likely to just turn your own Bridge off and die. Radouf likes!
So Molz7 at this point your deck is just Lantern with Thopters no? Not dissing, looks super fun.
I'm running a hybrid list with 4 Lily, 3 Tezz, and 2 JtMS. Due to KCommand resurgence and desire to turn on Opal faster I'm 4/3/2 Bauble/Opal/Jar. Jace is a great wincon in the deck that offers different flexibility from Tezz but most of the time Jace is just fatesealing in my testing so far. He's great at guaranteeing a win behind Bridge, but this is far from the best deck for truly making use of him. Jace was borderline useless in the matchups I ran into last night but that's going to happen.
I think it may be worth considering a shift to a Grixis Prison shell now. Part of the issue before was durdling into nothing with a chalice, blood moon or Bridge on the BF. Using an explosive artifact Mana package with some SSG and a stronger sweet of 4 cmc walkers could be great. T2 blood moon, T3 Jace bounce for example makes more use of Jace's abilities and could lock some opps out of the game. This is definitely an approach I'd like to try.
I think in my mind the Grixis Prison shell is much more likely to also be able to more regularly make use of Tezz's minus ability under a Blood Moon or on top of a Chalice to close the game quickly. The deck would be less reliant on sitting behind Bridge I think. Before with only 4 Tezz I found the Grixis Prison shell often just lost while it durdled to a wincon. Adding extra Jace offers flexibility within games that your opponent should be taxed in one manner or another while also allowing a threat to close 'quickly'. Heck Fateseal is even better when Fetches are locked out.
Like all such decks though you certainly run risk of drawing the wrong half. Whir for example is sometimes a struggle to consistently cast early under your own moon. Pentad Prism also can be sad when you're running so many basics. I think that's inherently an expectation of prison style decks though. My thought here is that the deck becomes more consistent in a couple different axises than it was previously which warrants an attempt. Sadly I'll probably have to pick up a 3rd JtMS to try that list out and Lily while she would be great in the strategy would be very tough to support.
I think UB Tezz gets a little better with Jace against the old format but I'm thinking the adjustment to Jace and BBE creates a format of decks we don't want to go long against and decks that try to go under those decks which we also stress us to draw well. All said I feel this will push UB Tezz, the way we're all playing it now, into a bit of a tough position.
Obviously this is just thoughts/opinions/conjecture for now.
so do you think getting behind a bridge and activating jace/tezz all the way to the finish line is a better way to go these days? playing so many 4 drops alongside whir feels rough trying to get below bridge, even with 3 brutality. im wondering if cranes could help that a little bit by giving us blockers while we're trying to get rid of our hand?
I expect a lot of hyper-fast aggro in the new meta to get under the new toys AND tron which preys on them. I don't think crane is where we want to be when facing dredge or hollow one, as it really only slows the bridge plan and doesnt block much effectively. I like CB main with maybe a battle at the bridge in the sb for aggro.
I've tried the grixis approach a bunch, and it just feels awful to have no good answers for problem enchants/artifacts. Sure you get moon to help the bad matchups, but it's a very clucky answer in our deck.
Is the White variant potentially better now that we can just run 2x Jace as our Trump Card Planeswalker? I played a tournament last week and in virtually every matchup I just wanted a card as flexible as Path to Exile. Fatal Push needing to jump through various hoops to revolt and Thouthseize doing damage to me all felt bad. Black isn't bad in the context of Tezzeret being the Planeswalker of choice, but if Jace is nearly as good maybe U/W is the way to make Thopter Sword work. Also, if KCI is the 3rd combo piece of choice (still undecided on this) black is also unnecessary.
I don’t remember exactly how my Jund games played out. This game involved us getting hellbent while I had an Ensnaring Bridge and a Welding Jar while he had a Lotv of which I had a Pithing Needle locking down. I had an Inventor’s fair in play as well as a Thopter Foundry and planned to get Sword of the Meek on his end step but he played a scavenging ooze. Therefore I just grabbed a second Ensnaring Bridge. (As long as you have one untapped mana and a Thopter Foundry they can’t get both ensnaring bridges with a Maelstrom Pulse because you sacrifice whichever one they target.) More draw-go ensues until I find a JTMS and fate seal him out of the game.
Game 2 he had both Lilliana’s in play and hit 3 BBE. I Pithing Needled Liliana of the veil and used thopter/Sword to beat down the other. I only got one turn with the combo before he untapped and killed the foundry and my pithing needle. Ticked up Lotv and the last card in my hand was a second Thopter Foundry. I stalled the game out with my remaining thopters by trading with his creatures and knocking down Lotv until I could use Inventor’s Fair to fetch my last Thopter foundry. However he still had a Scavaneging Ooze on the table. He tapped low for a BBE and on his end step I used my mana rocks as fodder to force through thopter/sword. Then untapped and created more thopters which eventually went on to win the game. Really grindy, but interactive and fun matches.
2nd Round: BBE Jund
I asked myself if this matchup was even good for me but decided this is Modern now and I will have to find a way to beat it.
Game 1 was very unusual but I was able to take an interesting line. I had Ensnaring Bridge/Welding Jar/Witchbane Ord/Academy ruins all in play. He had Lotv/Liliana the Last Hope/Goysf and most importantly 2 Dark Confidants. He needed to fine two pieces of artifact removal and enough power to kill me in one turn before Dark Confidant killed him. He thought Lotv ultimate would save him until I pointed out that it targets me and he cannot do that. Dark Confidants brought him to 2 life and I used thopter foundry to make a bunch of thopters on his end step to finish him off.
Game 2 he mulliganed to 5 but I eventually lost this game by drawing air while he drew threats. I played JTMS into an empty board but found nothing useful with brainstorm before I had to start bouncing goyfs.
Game 3 was very similar to the other Jund game where I had to beat both planeswalkers. He was over confidant with his nihil spell bomb and tapped out while I had thopter/sword ready. Explained how I get around the exile by just triggering sword a second time and he conceded to the 9 thopters over 2 turns. Had he not misplayed I still should have one given that he was hellbent at the time.
3rd Round: No-Lords Goblins
He is on the play. I knew he beat Tron earlier in the night which told me he was likely playing a fast deck. Combine that with red sleeves and a Goblin Guide playmat I thought for sure he was on burn.
He started out with turn 1 Foundry Street Denizen and I kept a hand that was very top heavy. Ensnaring Bridge, Tezzeret, JTMS, Whir, Talisman, 2 Lands. I drew serum for turn and used it find another land and a IOK. Turn 2 cast talisman and IOK. Turn 3 Welding Jar, Tezzeret, make Welding Jar a 5/5 to block. This halted attacks from my opponent and I played JTMS the next turn and bounced a token. Eventually I emptied my hand. Despite being unable to burn me, or attack me he made me play it out. I fate sealed him every turn until I ultimate Tezzeret for lethal.
Game 2 I walled him off for a little bit again with Tezzeret 5/5’s until I got Thopter/Sword online. I almost punted this game by forgetting Legion Loyalist made it so that tokens couldn’t block but I was able to race in the air while gaining enough to life survive. Sideboard Spellskite was huge in this game walling off some early attackers before I could cast Tezzeret.
4th Round: Intentional Draw against Mardu Pyromancer
It was one of the guys in my play group and we agreed that match up was abysmal for him and drew. In testing I was close to an 85% favorite against his deck. Without multiple K commands I would accrue more value with planeswalkers and thopter/sword and overrun him.
Overall the deck performed great and I was very happy with my list. Some changes to note since I started testing with JTMS:
+3 Inquistion of Kozelik
+3 Thoughtseize
+3 Colored lands
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Expedition Map
-1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
-1 Whir of Invention
-1 Ensnaring Bridge
-1 Pithing Needle
-2 Search for Azcanta
I found that a lot of decks would just run me over without more disruption. In addition to that I felt like I was not emptying my hand fast enough for Ensnaring Bridge. In addition to that the deck had very limited velocity and was casting only 1 relatively impactful spell a turn. Getting stuck with multiple 3+ CMC cards in your hand was frequent and terrible. All of the changes you see reflect that. Search for Azcanta was slow and we already had plenty of late game, same goes for the Crucible of Worlds package. The most suspect change is obviously the -1 Whir of Invention but I liked it a lot. Holding 2 Whir of Invention in your opening hand never feels good. I needed to cut more 3+cmc cards and I concluded that the 4th Whir was the least impactful card when our planeswalkers also dig deep. We also have Serum Visions, Mishra’s Baubles + Fetches, and Inventor’s Fair for selection.
If the meta gets more “fair” as many think it will we are going to be very well positioned to take down some tournaments. This may very well be the best JTMS shell. Proactive disruption, opponents can’t attack it, they can’t bolt it, and we can ramp it out a turn early.
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Went 4-1 with a goofy thopter list in a competitive MTGO league last night, losing only my last match against RG eldrazi. Matches went Ad Nauseum 2-1, UW Control 2-1, BR Hollow one 2-1, RG Ponza 2-0, RG Eldrazi 0-2. The eldrazi matchup should have been probably easy, but I made a sketchy keep game 1 and he drew early removal.
Sideboard Altar of the Brood was an all-star, winning me games 2 and 3 against both Ad Nauseum and UW control. Against Ad nauseum I took out thopter foundries and some other stuff for 3 Altars and 3 Extirpates, and was able to get a 6 card hand with 1 altar and 1 extirpate. The gameplan was just to mill until I hit their payoff cards, which didn't take long. Game 1 I extirpated angel's grace (while holding an abrupt decay for unlife), and game 2 I took Ad Nauseum after milling away lab man. Against UW control, I never extirpated anything, but just road 2 altars to mill city both games, decaying a silence in order to "eat" my board with foundry to get the necessary mill triggers before he could draw a d-sphere.
Having a mill/extirpate sideboard plan probably won't work all the time, but it was able to win against both combo and control, and ignores stony and RIP while coming down before most discard. I might even bring in altars against storm, as they go light on Past in Flames after boarding and generally keep their payoff spells away from their GY. I'd like to see how the SB package fares against Tron, though I suspect they would get Tron out before Altar mills away a relevant land to be exiled. Have to try and see.
@JacetotheFace - Of course a U/W thopter list with Jace could work! This is a strong, flexible deck backbone that we have. Just look at the janky pile I nearly went 5-0 with. As long as you are practiced with Thopter/Sword, bridge, and Whir decisions, the deck can go a lot of different ways. I think if you went pure U/W, playing 4 Field of Ruin would be awesome, taxing whatever basics opponents have along with path to exile.
I am playing a "win a box of MM17" tournament Thursday and looking for a fun Jace deck to play. I was thinking Jace+Snapcaster (my favorite creature), but Jace+Tezz sounds even better!
I have a few questions:
1) Is the green splash for Decay worth the extra damage you take from Pool and Spire (which could become Darkslick Shores or River of Tears instead)?
2) Would Tezzeret the Seeker be a good 1-of in the deck? It finds all of your lock pieces only dies in the process if you find Orb.
3) Was Grafdigger's Cage ever relevant? One of the prominent Snapcaster decks right now is Grixis, which can kill/bounce it easily. Nobody in my meta plays CoCo. Are there other uses I'm forgetting?
I'm wondering what people think about Chalice of the Void in current Tezz sideboards. I remember it was popular here back in the day because of shutting off so much of so many decks (like Burn and Shadow), but that was before Push was printed and when we weren't sure about discard.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
Despite being new to this forum, I've been playing various builds of modern Tezzerator for a few years now. I've been on/off various decks and decided it's finally time to revisit one of my favorite archetypes of all time and contribute to the forum!
I'd been on Affinity leading up to the SCG Invitational in December but didn't like it's positioning with the rise in popularity of decks like Jeskai, and especially now more than ever with the looming uptick in midrange/control strategies. I've had the most success with previous Thopter/Sword builds when fair midrange/control decks were at the forefront of the meta, so I decided to see if it was possible to integrate the explosive proactive game plan of Affinity with the late-game inevitability that Thopter/Sword provides. After going through 3x different Affinity-Thopter/Sword lists (mana base that supports Whir of Invention vs one that doesn't, prison top end vs partial Affinity top-end, etc.), I noticed the progression of my test decks were focused towards winning most games with the prison aspect, so I'm now just back on the full Tezzerator plan.
I browsed some recent posts on this forum and noticed some people have been liking the Lantern/Thopter hybrid, as well as revisiting Planeswalker control with the recent unbannings. I'm less fond of the latter and am much more interested in trying to play a deck with a curve that's slim enough to get under countermagic/less potential for convoluted hands to set up bridge, as well as being able to set up Thopter/Sword consistently for those "free wins" game 1 (much like affinity). Clunky/slow curves line up unfavorably against grindy blue decks, making 4-mana walkers less desirable and more reliant on hand disruption in the early turns. Search for Azcanta has been a card I'm currently pretty high on - it's a replacement win-con for these planeswalkers and comes down early, filters your draws, and provides a blue source later/an engine to find artifacts/win cons to close the game out faster. More importantly, it frees up card slots by mitigating reliance for hand disruption to set up a clunky win con and a higher land count to support a bigger top end. I've also recently tried Academy Ruins again, as it synergizes with the front side of Search for Azcanta (much like self-milling with Lantern). Again, fair midrange/control decks trying to profitably trade card-for-card tend to have difficulties combating all of this. Also, the Planeswalker builds can't fully utilize Welding Jar, a card which I also really like moving forward.
Anyway, this is where I'm currently at and most reently went 4-0 at my local shop's Weekly Monday Modern event last night with this initial build:
i was a pretty hardcore chalice fan for a long time, i still run 3 in the main but recently i've been concluding that they just don't impact the game enough. chalice on 2 is way more useful in modern but that locks most of our deck out. also there is no reliable way to power it out turn 1 either. still a solid choice if your meta is heavy on burn, though i think sun droplet could probably help more here and has uses outside of the burn matchup, i.e. non scapeshifted valakut triggers. still locks shadow decks out badly so again if your meeta has lots of DS then run it.
realistically those slots could probably be more useful dedicated to something else. if the meta slows down enough then lodestone golem could work, though we currently aren't running much/any removal plus bridge is a heavy part of our game so maybe not the best option. chalice on 1 does shut off like a 3rd of Gx tron's decks though so chalice into quicksilver fountain is pretty disgusting for them to deal with. though means not a lot unless you can present a quick clock as well.
Good thoughts, thank you. Unless things have changed in recent months, there's lots of Death's Shadow in my meta, but it's largely Grixis which has an easy MD answer in K-Command. (Although that's one less Shatter directed at something else, I guess.) So it's not much of a blowout. There's some Burn, and lots of Affinity (although it seems not great there; on the draw it can really only answer their 2-drops, and that's really late to start denying Affinity). I'm the resident Elves player.
Probably makes sense to leave them out then.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I also read that article. My playgroup and I talked a lot about that change in grixis control and how we think we could apply it to other decks for hours. Briefly about Tezzeret but mostly about Jeskai draw-go. We determined that Serum is actually better in Jeskai than opt and came to the same conclusion for Tezzeret shortly after. This is mostly because of the way Corey’s deck is built. It is a very velocity driven deck trying to use all of its mana every turn for any incremental advantage it can get all at instant speed. Our deck on the other hand is looking for specific cards most of the time. Corey mostly just wants any card, therefore instant is better than sorcery.
Also LSV did an article a while back talking about the value of a scry and how scry becomes more powerful in the late game because you have more dead draws then you would have had on turn 1. Top decking Serum Visions when you are hellbent is one of the best feelings because it is basically free deck manipulation often going three cards deeper for your missing combo piece or a planeswalker. I agree Serum is less good than other cantrips but it is still the most powerful we have in modern. Given that we are part combo I think it is wrong to cut them from the list.
Collective Brutality main deck was something I considered but being unable to take away planeswalkers was the deciding factor to move it to the sideboard. There are a fair number of matchups where it is not much more than a discard outlet and by trimming the top end away I am not sure if I really need that effect.
@coinmagic45:
1.) Yes. Having the ability to destroy stony silence, lantern lock pieces, blood moon, Lotv, Search for Azcanta, etc. out of the board is very valuable. I played the deck for a long time without the splash and can say that I have had a noticeable increase in post board win percentage with the Abrupt Decays in the sideboard. Also, having your 4th land come in to play tapped now can be a real cost when trying to cast multiple 4+ CMC cards. In addition to that you want to play more fetches now that we can Brainstorm in Modern.
2.) Some play it, but I find it weak. You are likely not attacking with his ultimate and his plus doesn’t do anything. I would easily play 4x Whir first but I am only playing 3 copies of Whir now.
3.) Initially I was with you on thinking the card was undeserving of a main deck slot. However we you get paired with storm and you whir for it in response to a Past in Flames you just win game one. It incidentally hates out Snapcaster Mages and Dredge. Now it is better than ever because it stops cascade on BBE. We don’t want them wheeling into more K commands and Maelstrom Pulses.
@rouge_Love:
It mostly comes down to a decision between hand disruption and CoV. Hand disruption seems to be better. If Modern were to get a new powerful cantrip, they may be a reason to play CoV over hand disruption but CoV is weak in modern for the same reason counterbalance will never see modern play. The CMC of cards vary too much.
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Coming back from GP Lyon and I have a little report for you. It will not be as comprehensive as the last one because i had not much time between rounds.
You will notice that there is no mox opal in it. I did that because i felt it a bit clunky. It was a choice between the mox opal/time sieve package or the pentad prism/Krark Clan ironwork. I felt like the second one had more upsides. The fact that it accelerates the whir capabilities and helps the decay to be stable. Also the combo does not necessitate 5 mana sources (i did it with only 2 lands one time) and works instantly through most of disruption while the other one does nothing in such cases.
I also went with witchbane orb to have a better match up against storm and valakut.
GP Lyon Main Event 8W/5L
Round 1 : Abzan midrange
Notes : He did'nt see a lot of his decay/pulse and the bridge is punitive for them.
Round 2 : UWR Midrange
Notes : Heavy discard helps. Pushing one Thopter foundry through is like 90% of the win.
Round 3 : UWR Control (nahiri)
Notes : same as above. Nahiri is quite inefficient against us since we don't tap our artifact so often.
Round 4 : Ad Nauseam
G1 : Won with infinite thopter combo
G2 : This matchup is complex, it's the only one i remember clearly because it was like playing a puzzle game. I packed pithing needles for lightning storm but the real problem is the Laboratory maniac. At the game 2, he managed to hurkyll's recall me just before going off, removing my prisms and my ability to decay with them.
G3 : I noticed that Recall is targeted to me, so i shifted my plan into : land a witchbane orb and keep mana to remove Maniac in response to their draw spells. That was without counting the new Opt in the format that allowed him to draw in response. After thinking and discussing the match with my opponent, he appears that i should have included the trinisphere in my plan. It would have stopped him from playing the second draw spell. I also noted that ethersworn canonist (that i switched for trinisphere) would have done the work too.
Round 5 : Abzan midrange
Notes : ø
Round 6 : Hollow one
Notes : Bridge vs creature decks. The only danger seems to be the card that make you discard at random too. It can wreck your well setted up hand.
Round 7 : Mardu Pyro
Notes : I learned something that match : never side out the decay. Like never ever. I expected spell based sideboard and got eaten by 2 pithing needle.
Round 8 : UR Madcap Moon
Notes : Discard shines a lot in this match up, and prisms are a nice safety belt against moon. Allowing us to decay the bloodmoon easily.
Round 1 : Affinity
Notes : Collective brutality are awesome in this king of hyper aggro match up. Bridge is also stellar against Master of Etherium
Round 2 : Ponza
Notes : Discard and Collective brutality are awesome hits and the prisms to counter moon are helping a lot.
Round 3 : G tron
Notes : Well, even with their worst hand (just a forest in it) and 3 discard spells they still manage to win. It's really a 0% match up.
Round 4 : Human
Notes : The match up heavily relies on bridge but it's not easy to protect it from the itesail freebooter and medling mage. In their good start they are impossible to stop and even when they are stuck, they can push with noble hierarch.
Round 5 : Burn
Notes : Did'nt see a lot of my collective brutality or pentad prism to accelerate the combo.
1. Is mainboard Witchbane Orb a meta call? What kind of environment is that good in if so? Which decks is it good against?
2/3/4. Specifically for racing089: congrats first of all, your list is sweet.
How does it feel with only two Ensnaring Bridge?
Why do you run only two Tezzeret? I personally like three, but I would just like to read your thoughts on why. I can see bringing the curve down, but that's it?
How is the 3/2 Foundry/Sword split? I have been running 2/2, is it a meta call or is the consistency worth it? (I guess anyone can answer this one lol)
Despite being new to this forum, I've been playing various builds of modern Tezzerator for a few years now. I've been on/off various decks and decided it's finally time to revisit one of my favorite archetypes of all time and contribute to the forum!
I'd been on Affinity leading up to the SCG Invitational in December but didn't like it's positioning with the rise in popularity of decks like Jeskai, and especially now more than ever with the looming uptick in midrange/control strategies. I've had the most success with previous Thopter/Sword builds when fair midrange/control decks were at the forefront of the meta, so I decided to see if it was possible to integrate the explosive proactive game plan of Affinity with the late-game inevitability that Thopter/Sword provides. After going through 3x different Affinity-Thopter/Sword lists (mana base that supports Whir of Invention vs one that doesn't, prison top end vs partial Affinity top-end, etc.), I noticed the progression of my test decks were focused towards winning most games with the prison aspect, so I'm now just back on the full Tezzerator plan.
I browsed some recent posts on this forum and noticed some people have been liking the Lantern/Thopter hybrid, as well as revisiting Planeswalker control with the recent unbannings. I'm less fond of the latter and am much more interested in trying to play a deck with a curve that's slim enough to get under countermagic/less potential for convoluted hands to set up bridge, as well as being able to set up Thopter/Sword consistently for those "free wins" game 1 (much like affinity). Clunky/slow curves line up unfavorably against grindy blue decks, making 4-mana walkers less desirable and more reliant on hand disruption in the early turns. Search for Azcanta has been a card I'm currently pretty high on - it's a replacement win-con for these planeswalkers and comes down early, filters your draws, and provides a blue source later/an engine to find artifacts/win cons to close the game out faster. More importantly, it frees up card slots by mitigating reliance for hand disruption to set up a clunky win con and a higher land count to support a bigger top end. I've also recently tried Academy Ruins again, as it synergizes with the front side of Search for Azcanta (much like self-milling with Lantern). Again, fair midrange/control decks trying to profitably trade card-for-card tend to have difficulties combating all of this. Also, the Planeswalker builds can't fully utilize Welding Jar, a card which I also really like moving forward.
Anyway, this is where I'm currently at and most reently went 4-0 at my local shop's Weekly Monday Modern event last night with this initial build:
This deck still has room for improvement, as I'm still tweaking the Mana Base, as well as my post-board gameplan.
Sorry about the lengthy post - I'm just excited to be back and would be happy to get some feedback on this deck!
Hi and welcome!
I think you have a pretty solid list.
I'm personally not a fan of Ashiok and would instead play an additional Tezz and Needle, but that's because my meta has a lot of Tron...
@TugaTog
Thanks! This is still a work in progress, and Ashiok is one the main flex slots in my sideboard right now. I felt like there should be 2 slots dedicated towards wincons that ignore things like Stony Silence (since I only play 2x Tez/ 2x Search in the main). Herald didn't quite cut it for me since it doesn't swing behind a bridge until you sac it. I considered Aether Grid but it requires more emphasis on needing a red source consistently and while I could just slot in a Steam Vents or something, I'm not sure it's worth it, especially since we aren't running a super high density of 0's and 1's to get the most out of the Grid as quickly as possible, like Affinity/Lantern do.
I like Tez and Needle against Tron for sure and I might go with that next time around, but I decided to look for an alt wincon that is better against blue decks trying out Jace. 4-Mana walkers aren't typically something you want against blue decks, whereas Ashiok is a must-answer threat that gets under Cryptic regardless of whether you're on the play/draw. I really like the idea of swarming the opponent with must-answer threats as quickly as possible, and Ashiok seemed to align with that approach more than other more expensive alternatives. I figured Tron is one of our "borderline unwinnable" matchups and since I have a plan for it (get aggressive with Tez/Needle and pray), I'm typically an advocate for having sideboard plans to make close/winnable matchups better rather than making terrible matchups slightly better but still not good. However, when Tez is good he's really good (not just against Tron) and I'm super open to swapping out the Ashioks for other things in general.
It seems like the meta is about to shift in a big way and decks that rely on topdecks won't be quite as safe anymore. From the rumblings from my pro friends (Sam Black/Matt Severa/Adrian Sullivan etc) bloodmoon jace counter/control is going to settle as the best outlet for him which would be a nightmare matchup for tron, so in some respects I think the Jace unbanning will ultimately bump thopter/sword in power level. Also, bloodbraid elf creates decklists that try to end the game as soon as possible, another tough environment for tron.
I sleeved up a build that was all in on PWs, 4 of both tezzerets, 2 jace, 1 ghirapur aether grid and the rest artifacts and accelerants (SSG, Gemstone Caverns, Mox Opal, Pentad Prism, Talisman)
I got turn three'd by abzan twice, never drew a relevant threat against grixis control past the first each game that got maindeck countersqualled, and beat a bloodbrain/bloodmoon deck
I think until the meta settles our best attribute is that we blank creature removal game one and have bridges, that gives us a decent chance into siding into enough to win g2 or 3 even after all the crazy amount of hate comes in.
My decklist is changing so much I won't even go into specifics, but here is where I'm landed for the amount of the big cards
2 Lilli of the Veil
3 Tezzeret, Agent
3 Tezzeret the Seeker (after playing Meltiin's list a lot I'm convinced we haven't even come close to unlocking this dude's potential)
3 Whir
2 Foundry
1 Sword
2 Bridge
2 Welding Jar
4 Opal (Heavily considering if this is enough upside in a meta where you can't really afford to draw any air after jace lands)
4 Field of Ruin
then a smattering of the other stuff you'd expect. If I get a list nailed down I'll list in full.
As for sideboards I have two questions:
1. Has anyone tried Meloku, the Clouded Mirror as an alt win around stony? Seems like it could have gotten me out of a lot of jams.
2. Has anyone (who is the splash green version) thought about a transformational with trackers/ramunap excavators? Excavators in vs tron to recur GQ or Field of Ruin/Both in against burn/both in against midrange/both in against control?
Those two cards just looked so amazing together in the Super League last night I finally got off my ass and ordered playsets of each, I feel they're both about to pop up a lot and spike in price.
First of all, awesome report and congrats on making Day 2 "the hard way"! One of the things I noticed in your list was that you removed the Basic Swamp. I almost NEVER find myself fetching for the Swamp, especially since I'm still currently running the 3 Mox/3 Prism split. I'm also not playing IOK and only have 2x Thoughtseize in the board, so drawing it/seeing it in an opening 7 has felt more like a colorless land in a deck that needs triple blue for Whir.
I'm only playing 19 lands total (3 Basics) since I trimmed the top end down slightly, so I'd be swapping the Basic Swamp for a 3rd Basic Island (I assume you just cut it for a shock/Spire/Glimmervoid). I've been on 2x Spire myself and wanted to know why you chose to split Glimmervoid/Spire 1 to 1. I've even been considering cutting a spire for a second Breeding Pool (I get that you opted for the 1st Overgrown Tomb since you're running a higher density of Black spells). Just wanted to hear your thoughts on the mana base decisions.
Why do you run only two Tezzeret? I personally like three, but I would just like to read your thoughts on why. I can see bringing the curve down, but that's it?
@superbruce56
I don't mean to speak for racing089 (congrats on your recent success btw!), but in regards to going down to 2 Tezzeret, I personally find that you don't want to see the second, as the first one drawn too early can clog up the hand when you need to slam a bridge while being hellbent. However, it looks like racing089 wanted to keep the 4-CMC wincon count to 4x maindeck by splitting Jace/Tezz 2/2, so it's not like the curve was reduced, but rather the top end threats were diversified. I personally think Tez is just way better in a deck like this, as his uptick digs deeper for the card you need, the downtick is a good alt-wincon vs gameplans trying to take advantage of our weaknesses, and the ultimate has the potential to end the game the turn after he comes down. However, I can't fault anyone for trying Jace, especially if the deck is less dependent on being all-in on the artifact prison/combo theme. The heavier planeswalker version wants to attack by having too many threats that hit from too many angles, which is especially good against both artifact and GY hate post board.
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@Molz: Decklist looks great. Padeem, good trump card vs all the hate! In a Lantern'ised shell with the updated Thopter and Tezz capabilities, it makes way more sense. With the top control you have, and with the fact that so much of the extra cards you're going to draw are low-casting cost trinkets, you're way less likely to just turn your own Bridge off and die. Radouf likes!
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I'm running a hybrid list with 4 Lily, 3 Tezz, and 2 JtMS. Due to KCommand resurgence and desire to turn on Opal faster I'm 4/3/2 Bauble/Opal/Jar. Jace is a great wincon in the deck that offers different flexibility from Tezz but most of the time Jace is just fatesealing in my testing so far. He's great at guaranteeing a win behind Bridge, but this is far from the best deck for truly making use of him. Jace was borderline useless in the matchups I ran into last night but that's going to happen.
I think it may be worth considering a shift to a Grixis Prison shell now. Part of the issue before was durdling into nothing with a chalice, blood moon or Bridge on the BF. Using an explosive artifact Mana package with some SSG and a stronger sweet of 4 cmc walkers could be great. T2 blood moon, T3 Jace bounce for example makes more use of Jace's abilities and could lock some opps out of the game. This is definitely an approach I'd like to try.
Like all such decks though you certainly run risk of drawing the wrong half. Whir for example is sometimes a struggle to consistently cast early under your own moon. Pentad Prism also can be sad when you're running so many basics. I think that's inherently an expectation of prison style decks though. My thought here is that the deck becomes more consistent in a couple different axises than it was previously which warrants an attempt. Sadly I'll probably have to pick up a 3rd JtMS to try that list out and Lily while she would be great in the strategy would be very tough to support.
I think UB Tezz gets a little better with Jace against the old format but I'm thinking the adjustment to Jace and BBE creates a format of decks we don't want to go long against and decks that try to go under those decks which we also stress us to draw well. All said I feel this will push UB Tezz, the way we're all playing it now, into a bit of a tough position.
Obviously this is just thoughts/opinions/conjecture for now.
I expect a lot of hyper-fast aggro in the new meta to get under the new toys AND tron which preys on them. I don't think crane is where we want to be when facing dredge or hollow one, as it really only slows the bridge plan and doesnt block much effectively. I like CB main with maybe a battle at the bridge in the sb for aggro.
I've tried the grixis approach a bunch, and it just feels awful to have no good answers for problem enchants/artifacts. Sure you get moon to help the bad matchups, but it's a very clucky answer in our deck.
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Spire of Industry
1 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Watery Grave
Artifacts:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Talisman of Dominance
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Welding Jar
1 Witchbane Orb
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Serum Visions
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Thoughtseize
3 Whir of Invention
2 Collective Brutality
2 Damnation
1 Duress
2 Fatal Push
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
1 Welding Jar
1st Round: BBE Jund
I don’t remember exactly how my Jund games played out. This game involved us getting hellbent while I had an Ensnaring Bridge and a Welding Jar while he had a Lotv of which I had a Pithing Needle locking down. I had an Inventor’s fair in play as well as a Thopter Foundry and planned to get Sword of the Meek on his end step but he played a scavenging ooze. Therefore I just grabbed a second Ensnaring Bridge. (As long as you have one untapped mana and a Thopter Foundry they can’t get both ensnaring bridges with a Maelstrom Pulse because you sacrifice whichever one they target.) More draw-go ensues until I find a JTMS and fate seal him out of the game.
Game 2 he had both Lilliana’s in play and hit 3 BBE. I Pithing Needled Liliana of the veil and used thopter/Sword to beat down the other. I only got one turn with the combo before he untapped and killed the foundry and my pithing needle. Ticked up Lotv and the last card in my hand was a second Thopter Foundry. I stalled the game out with my remaining thopters by trading with his creatures and knocking down Lotv until I could use Inventor’s Fair to fetch my last Thopter foundry. However he still had a Scavaneging Ooze on the table. He tapped low for a BBE and on his end step I used my mana rocks as fodder to force through thopter/sword. Then untapped and created more thopters which eventually went on to win the game. Really grindy, but interactive and fun matches.
2nd Round: BBE Jund
I asked myself if this matchup was even good for me but decided this is Modern now and I will have to find a way to beat it.
Game 1 was very unusual but I was able to take an interesting line. I had Ensnaring Bridge/Welding Jar/Witchbane Ord/Academy ruins all in play. He had Lotv/Liliana the Last Hope/Goysf and most importantly 2 Dark Confidants. He needed to fine two pieces of artifact removal and enough power to kill me in one turn before Dark Confidant killed him. He thought Lotv ultimate would save him until I pointed out that it targets me and he cannot do that. Dark Confidants brought him to 2 life and I used thopter foundry to make a bunch of thopters on his end step to finish him off.
Game 2 he mulliganed to 5 but I eventually lost this game by drawing air while he drew threats. I played JTMS into an empty board but found nothing useful with brainstorm before I had to start bouncing goyfs.
Game 3 was very similar to the other Jund game where I had to beat both planeswalkers. He was over confidant with his nihil spell bomb and tapped out while I had thopter/sword ready. Explained how I get around the exile by just triggering sword a second time and he conceded to the 9 thopters over 2 turns. Had he not misplayed I still should have one given that he was hellbent at the time.
3rd Round: No-Lords Goblins
He is on the play. I knew he beat Tron earlier in the night which told me he was likely playing a fast deck. Combine that with red sleeves and a Goblin Guide playmat I thought for sure he was on burn.
He started out with turn 1 Foundry Street Denizen and I kept a hand that was very top heavy. Ensnaring Bridge, Tezzeret, JTMS, Whir, Talisman, 2 Lands. I drew serum for turn and used it find another land and a IOK. Turn 2 cast talisman and IOK. Turn 3 Welding Jar, Tezzeret, make Welding Jar a 5/5 to block. This halted attacks from my opponent and I played JTMS the next turn and bounced a token. Eventually I emptied my hand. Despite being unable to burn me, or attack me he made me play it out. I fate sealed him every turn until I ultimate Tezzeret for lethal.
Game 2 I walled him off for a little bit again with Tezzeret 5/5’s until I got Thopter/Sword online. I almost punted this game by forgetting Legion Loyalist made it so that tokens couldn’t block but I was able to race in the air while gaining enough to life survive. Sideboard Spellskite was huge in this game walling off some early attackers before I could cast Tezzeret.
4th Round: Intentional Draw against Mardu Pyromancer
It was one of the guys in my play group and we agreed that match up was abysmal for him and drew. In testing I was close to an 85% favorite against his deck. Without multiple K commands I would accrue more value with planeswalkers and thopter/sword and overrun him.
Overall the deck performed great and I was very happy with my list. Some changes to note since I started testing with JTMS:
+3 Inquistion of Kozelik
+3 Thoughtseize
+3 Colored lands
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Expedition Map
-1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
-1 Whir of Invention
-1 Ensnaring Bridge
-1 Pithing Needle
-2 Search for Azcanta
I found that a lot of decks would just run me over without more disruption. In addition to that I felt like I was not emptying my hand fast enough for Ensnaring Bridge. In addition to that the deck had very limited velocity and was casting only 1 relatively impactful spell a turn. Getting stuck with multiple 3+ CMC cards in your hand was frequent and terrible. All of the changes you see reflect that. Search for Azcanta was slow and we already had plenty of late game, same goes for the Crucible of Worlds package. The most suspect change is obviously the -1 Whir of Invention but I liked it a lot. Holding 2 Whir of Invention in your opening hand never feels good. I needed to cut more 3+cmc cards and I concluded that the 4th Whir was the least impactful card when our planeswalkers also dig deep. We also have Serum Visions, Mishra’s Baubles + Fetches, and Inventor’s Fair for selection.
If the meta gets more “fair” as many think it will we are going to be very well positioned to take down some tournaments. This may very well be the best JTMS shell. Proactive disruption, opponents can’t attack it, they can’t bolt it, and we can ramp it out a turn early.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Sideboard Altar of the Brood was an all-star, winning me games 2 and 3 against both Ad Nauseum and UW control. Against Ad nauseum I took out thopter foundries and some other stuff for 3 Altars and 3 Extirpates, and was able to get a 6 card hand with 1 altar and 1 extirpate. The gameplan was just to mill until I hit their payoff cards, which didn't take long. Game 1 I extirpated angel's grace (while holding an abrupt decay for unlife), and game 2 I took Ad Nauseum after milling away lab man. Against UW control, I never extirpated anything, but just road 2 altars to mill city both games, decaying a silence in order to "eat" my board with foundry to get the necessary mill triggers before he could draw a d-sphere.
Having a mill/extirpate sideboard plan probably won't work all the time, but it was able to win against both combo and control, and ignores stony and RIP while coming down before most discard. I might even bring in altars against storm, as they go light on Past in Flames after boarding and generally keep their payoff spells away from their GY. I'd like to see how the SB package fares against Tron, though I suspect they would get Tron out before Altar mills away a relevant land to be exiled. Have to try and see.
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Welding Jar
2 Chromatic Star
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Animation Module
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
2 Scrap Trawler
Creatures: 3
2 Sly Requisitioner
1 Pitiless Plunderer
3 Serum Visions
4 Whir of Invention
Land: 20
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
3 Island
2 Darksteel Ciadel
3 Spire of Industry
3 Extirpate
3 Altar of the Brood
2 Pithing Needle
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Battle at the Bridge
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Hangarback Walker
@JacetotheFace - Of course a U/W thopter list with Jace could work! This is a strong, flexible deck backbone that we have. Just look at the janky pile I nearly went 5-0 with. As long as you are practiced with Thopter/Sword, bridge, and Whir decisions, the deck can go a lot of different ways. I think if you went pure U/W, playing 4 Field of Ruin would be awesome, taxing whatever basics opponents have along with path to exile.
I am playing a "win a box of MM17" tournament Thursday and looking for a fun Jace deck to play. I was thinking Jace+Snapcaster (my favorite creature), but Jace+Tezz sounds even better!
I have a few questions:
1) Is the green splash for Decay worth the extra damage you take from Pool and Spire (which could become Darkslick Shores or River of Tears instead)?
2) Would Tezzeret the Seeker be a good 1-of in the deck? It finds all of your lock pieces only dies in the process if you find Orb.
3) Was Grafdigger's Cage ever relevant? One of the prominent Snapcaster decks right now is Grixis, which can kill/bounce it easily. Nobody in my meta plays CoCo. Are there other uses I'm forgetting?
Congrats on the finish and thanks in advance!
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
Despite being new to this forum, I've been playing various builds of modern Tezzerator for a few years now. I've been on/off various decks and decided it's finally time to revisit one of my favorite archetypes of all time and contribute to the forum!
I'd been on Affinity leading up to the SCG Invitational in December but didn't like it's positioning with the rise in popularity of decks like Jeskai, and especially now more than ever with the looming uptick in midrange/control strategies. I've had the most success with previous Thopter/Sword builds when fair midrange/control decks were at the forefront of the meta, so I decided to see if it was possible to integrate the explosive proactive game plan of Affinity with the late-game inevitability that Thopter/Sword provides. After going through 3x different Affinity-Thopter/Sword lists (mana base that supports Whir of Invention vs one that doesn't, prison top end vs partial Affinity top-end, etc.), I noticed the progression of my test decks were focused towards winning most games with the prison aspect, so I'm now just back on the full Tezzerator plan.
I browsed some recent posts on this forum and noticed some people have been liking the Lantern/Thopter hybrid, as well as revisiting Planeswalker control with the recent unbannings. I'm less fond of the latter and am much more interested in trying to play a deck with a curve that's slim enough to get under countermagic/less potential for convoluted hands to set up bridge, as well as being able to set up Thopter/Sword consistently for those "free wins" game 1 (much like affinity). Clunky/slow curves line up unfavorably against grindy blue decks, making 4-mana walkers less desirable and more reliant on hand disruption in the early turns. Search for Azcanta has been a card I'm currently pretty high on - it's a replacement win-con for these planeswalkers and comes down early, filters your draws, and provides a blue source later/an engine to find artifacts/win cons to close the game out faster. More importantly, it frees up card slots by mitigating reliance for hand disruption to set up a clunky win con and a higher land count to support a bigger top end. I've also recently tried Academy Ruins again, as it synergizes with the front side of Search for Azcanta (much like self-milling with Lantern). Again, fair midrange/control decks trying to profitably trade card-for-card tend to have difficulties combating all of this. Also, the Planeswalker builds can't fully utilize Welding Jar, a card which I also really like moving forward.
Anyway, this is where I'm currently at and most reently went 4-0 at my local shop's Weekly Monday Modern event last night with this initial build:
1x Academy Ruins
2x Spire of Industry
4x Darkslick Shores
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
2x Island
1x Swamp
Artifacts
3x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Thopter Foundry
3x Sword of the Meek
1x Time Sieve
1x Spellskite
4x Mishra's Bauble
3x Mox Opal
2x Welding Jar
3x Pentad Prism
1x Pithing Needle
1x Nihil Spellbomb
4x Whir of Invention
4x Serum Visions
3x Collective Brutality
2x Search for Azcanta
2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Pithing Needle
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Witchbane Orb
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Damnation
In short, my night went like this:
R1: 2-0 Mono Black Vampire Aggro
R2: 2-1 Temur Moon
R3: 2-1 UR Pyromancer
R4: 2-0 UW Control
If it matters to anyone, the UW Control deck had Jace, the Mind Sculptor and the Temur deck had both Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Bloodbraid Elf.
This deck still has room for improvement, as I'm still tweaking the Mana Base, as well as my post-board gameplan.
Sorry about the lengthy post - I'm just excited to be back and would be happy to get some feedback on this deck!
Good thoughts, thank you. Unless things have changed in recent months, there's lots of Death's Shadow in my meta, but it's largely Grixis which has an easy MD answer in K-Command. (Although that's one less Shatter directed at something else, I guess.) So it's not much of a blowout. There's some Burn, and lots of Affinity (although it seems not great there; on the draw it can really only answer their 2-drops, and that's really late to start denying Affinity). I'm the resident Elves player.
Probably makes sense to leave them out then.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
I also read that article. My playgroup and I talked a lot about that change in grixis control and how we think we could apply it to other decks for hours. Briefly about Tezzeret but mostly about Jeskai draw-go. We determined that Serum is actually better in Jeskai than opt and came to the same conclusion for Tezzeret shortly after. This is mostly because of the way Corey’s deck is built. It is a very velocity driven deck trying to use all of its mana every turn for any incremental advantage it can get all at instant speed. Our deck on the other hand is looking for specific cards most of the time. Corey mostly just wants any card, therefore instant is better than sorcery.
Also LSV did an article a while back talking about the value of a scry and how scry becomes more powerful in the late game because you have more dead draws then you would have had on turn 1. Top decking Serum Visions when you are hellbent is one of the best feelings because it is basically free deck manipulation often going three cards deeper for your missing combo piece or a planeswalker. I agree Serum is less good than other cantrips but it is still the most powerful we have in modern. Given that we are part combo I think it is wrong to cut them from the list.
Collective Brutality main deck was something I considered but being unable to take away planeswalkers was the deciding factor to move it to the sideboard. There are a fair number of matchups where it is not much more than a discard outlet and by trimming the top end away I am not sure if I really need that effect.
@coinmagic45:
1.) Yes. Having the ability to destroy stony silence, lantern lock pieces, blood moon, Lotv, Search for Azcanta, etc. out of the board is very valuable. I played the deck for a long time without the splash and can say that I have had a noticeable increase in post board win percentage with the Abrupt Decays in the sideboard. Also, having your 4th land come in to play tapped now can be a real cost when trying to cast multiple 4+ CMC cards. In addition to that you want to play more fetches now that we can Brainstorm in Modern.
2.) Some play it, but I find it weak. You are likely not attacking with his ultimate and his plus doesn’t do anything. I would easily play 4x Whir first but I am only playing 3 copies of Whir now.
3.) Initially I was with you on thinking the card was undeserving of a main deck slot. However we you get paired with storm and you whir for it in response to a Past in Flames you just win game one. It incidentally hates out Snapcaster Mages and Dredge. Now it is better than ever because it stops cascade on BBE. We don’t want them wheeling into more K commands and Maelstrom Pulses.
@rouge_Love:
It mostly comes down to a decision between hand disruption and CoV. Hand disruption seems to be better. If Modern were to get a new powerful cantrip, they may be a reason to play CoV over hand disruption but CoV is weak in modern for the same reason counterbalance will never see modern play. The CMC of cards vary too much.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
You just convinced me to sleeve-up Tezzerator again.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
Coming back from GP Lyon and I have a little report for you. It will not be as comprehensive as the last one because i had not much time between rounds.
I went with this list :
// 22 Artifact
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
2 Welding Jar
1 Pithing Needle
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
3 Pentad Prism
// 6 Instant
4 Whir of Invention
2 Abrupt Decay
// 20 Land
1 Inventors' Fair
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
3 Island
2 Flooded Strand
1 Glimmervoid
1 Breeding Pool
1 Spire of Industry
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
// 10 Sorcery
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
3 Collective Brutality
// 6 Artifact
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
1 Relic of Progenitus
// 1 Creature
1 Spellskite
// 1 Instant
1 Abrupt Decay
// 2 Planeswalker
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Liliana of the Veil
// 5 Sorcery
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
I also went with witchbane orb to have a better match up against storm and valakut.
GP Lyon Main Event 8W/5L
Round 2 : UWR Midrange
Round 3 : UWR Control (nahiri)
Round 4 : Ad Nauseam
Round 5 : Abzan midrange
Round 6 : Hollow one
Round 7 : Mardu Pyro
Round 8 : UR Madcap Moon
Round 2 : Ponza
Round 3 : G tron
Round 4 : Human
Round 5 : Burn
1. Is mainboard Witchbane Orb a meta call? What kind of environment is that good in if so? Which decks is it good against?
2/3/4. Specifically for racing089: congrats first of all, your list is sweet.
How does it feel with only two Ensnaring Bridge?
Why do you run only two Tezzeret? I personally like three, but I would just like to read your thoughts on why. I can see bringing the curve down, but that's it?
How is the 3/2 Foundry/Sword split? I have been running 2/2, is it a meta call or is the consistency worth it? (I guess anyone can answer this one lol)
5. Is Executioner's Capsule not good anymore?
Thanks
@TugaTog
Thanks! This is still a work in progress, and Ashiok is one the main flex slots in my sideboard right now. I felt like there should be 2 slots dedicated towards wincons that ignore things like Stony Silence (since I only play 2x Tez/ 2x Search in the main). Herald didn't quite cut it for me since it doesn't swing behind a bridge until you sac it. I considered Aether Grid but it requires more emphasis on needing a red source consistently and while I could just slot in a Steam Vents or something, I'm not sure it's worth it, especially since we aren't running a super high density of 0's and 1's to get the most out of the Grid as quickly as possible, like Affinity/Lantern do.
I like Tez and Needle against Tron for sure and I might go with that next time around, but I decided to look for an alt wincon that is better against blue decks trying out Jace. 4-Mana walkers aren't typically something you want against blue decks, whereas Ashiok is a must-answer threat that gets under Cryptic regardless of whether you're on the play/draw. I really like the idea of swarming the opponent with must-answer threats as quickly as possible, and Ashiok seemed to align with that approach more than other more expensive alternatives. I figured Tron is one of our "borderline unwinnable" matchups and since I have a plan for it (get aggressive with Tez/Needle and pray), I'm typically an advocate for having sideboard plans to make close/winnable matchups better rather than making terrible matchups slightly better but still not good. However, when Tez is good he's really good (not just against Tron) and I'm super open to swapping out the Ashioks for other things in general.
I sleeved up a build that was all in on PWs, 4 of both tezzerets, 2 jace, 1 ghirapur aether grid and the rest artifacts and accelerants (SSG, Gemstone Caverns, Mox Opal, Pentad Prism, Talisman)
I got turn three'd by abzan twice, never drew a relevant threat against grixis control past the first each game that got maindeck countersqualled, and beat a bloodbrain/bloodmoon deck
I think until the meta settles our best attribute is that we blank creature removal game one and have bridges, that gives us a decent chance into siding into enough to win g2 or 3 even after all the crazy amount of hate comes in.
My decklist is changing so much I won't even go into specifics, but here is where I'm landed for the amount of the big cards
2 Lilli of the Veil
3 Tezzeret, Agent
3 Tezzeret the Seeker (after playing Meltiin's list a lot I'm convinced we haven't even come close to unlocking this dude's potential)
3 Whir
2 Foundry
1 Sword
2 Bridge
2 Welding Jar
4 Opal (Heavily considering if this is enough upside in a meta where you can't really afford to draw any air after jace lands)
4 Field of Ruin
then a smattering of the other stuff you'd expect. If I get a list nailed down I'll list in full.
As for sideboards I have two questions:
1. Has anyone tried Meloku, the Clouded Mirror as an alt win around stony? Seems like it could have gotten me out of a lot of jams.
2. Has anyone (who is the splash green version) thought about a transformational with trackers/ramunap excavators? Excavators in vs tron to recur GQ or Field of Ruin/Both in against burn/both in against midrange/both in against control?
Those two cards just looked so amazing together in the Super League last night I finally got off my ass and ordered playsets of each, I feel they're both about to pop up a lot and spike in price.
@Xatrith
// 22 Artifact
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
2 Welding Jar
1 Pithing Needle
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
3 Pentad Prism
// 6 Instant
4 Whir of Invention
2 Abrupt Decay
// 20 Land
1 Inventors' Fair
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
3 Island
2 Flooded Strand
1 Glimmervoid
1 Breeding Pool
1 Spire of Industry
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
// 10 Sorcery
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
3 Collective Brutality
// 6 Artifact
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
1 Relic of Progenitus
// 1 Creature
1 Spellskite
// 1 Instant
1 Abrupt Decay
// 2 Planeswalker
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Liliana of the Veil
// 5 Sorcery
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
First of all, awesome report and congrats on making Day 2 "the hard way"! One of the things I noticed in your list was that you removed the Basic Swamp. I almost NEVER find myself fetching for the Swamp, especially since I'm still currently running the 3 Mox/3 Prism split. I'm also not playing IOK and only have 2x Thoughtseize in the board, so drawing it/seeing it in an opening 7 has felt more like a colorless land in a deck that needs triple blue for Whir.
I'm only playing 19 lands total (3 Basics) since I trimmed the top end down slightly, so I'd be swapping the Basic Swamp for a 3rd Basic Island (I assume you just cut it for a shock/Spire/Glimmervoid). I've been on 2x Spire myself and wanted to know why you chose to split Glimmervoid/Spire 1 to 1. I've even been considering cutting a spire for a second Breeding Pool (I get that you opted for the 1st Overgrown Tomb since you're running a higher density of Black spells). Just wanted to hear your thoughts on the mana base decisions.
@superbruce56
I don't mean to speak for racing089 (congrats on your recent success btw!), but in regards to going down to 2 Tezzeret, I personally find that you don't want to see the second, as the first one drawn too early can clog up the hand when you need to slam a bridge while being hellbent. However, it looks like racing089 wanted to keep the 4-CMC wincon count to 4x maindeck by splitting Jace/Tezz 2/2, so it's not like the curve was reduced, but rather the top end threats were diversified. I personally think Tez is just way better in a deck like this, as his uptick digs deeper for the card you need, the downtick is a good alt-wincon vs gameplans trying to take advantage of our weaknesses, and the ultimate has the potential to end the game the turn after he comes down. However, I can't fault anyone for trying Jace, especially if the deck is less dependent on being all-in on the artifact prison/combo theme. The heavier planeswalker version wants to attack by having too many threats that hit from too many angles, which is especially good against both artifact and GY hate post board.