Personnally I'm not convinced by darviel main deck (on the paper, i haven't test it yet).
It looks slow with 3 CMC.
you're missing some instant, targetting spot removals : you can't just trust you opponenent when you're asking him to sac a creature (with triumph or lili) to sac the one that bother you the more
You have to be able to target some mana dork in the early game for example, or kill manlands eventhaugh there is a token on its side.
And once more, with that new extension, you will see more PW in the modern scape... The elder spell seems a good choice as a sideboard card.Or maybe the new "price of the betrayal".
in my pov, davriel is a budget liliana of the veil.
I don't see what it brings to the deck. it looks very slow for our purpose.
therfore I dont like to inject more 3 CMC cards.
of course it does all what the deck needs, but it brings nothing that our deck is missing (to level up our MU vs tron for example).
but it slows you if you play it in place of wrenched mind for example.
your goal with that deck is to discard the hand of your opponnent down to 0 as quick as possible, and to maintain it.
This is the list I've been using for 3 years in at my local store. With the arrival of Davriel, I may use him as a 2 of, removing a Wrench Mind and a Shrieking Affliction since it doubles up those two cards. I always use Grafdigger's Cage vs dredge or reanimator with the help of Surgicals, I always side out Raven's Crime for cage since they counter act each other. You can always T1 thoughtseize, take their nature's claim, surgical it and then drop the Cage! Darkblast come in against any go wide decks, only 1cmc, works great with the low curve of smallpox, I don't mind dredging my cards since I have alot of redundancy in all 4 ofs. Pack Rat only comes in against Chalice on 1 and Leyline of Sanctity. Vengeful Pharaoh is a discard fodder against aggro decks, if they attack me or lili, they will lose their creature, I don't really mind drawing him again since I can easily discard him to smallpox or lili, or I can even dredge back Dakmor or Darkblast to put him back in the yard. He is not meant to be casted, just pitched. Sometimes, people will not even attack because he is in the yard, it acts as a pseudo bridge sometimes, preventing attacks.
1x Dakmor Salvage (FUT)
4x Fatal Push (000)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek (ROE)
4x Liliana of the Veil (ISD)
4x Mutavault (M14)
4x Raven's Crime (EVE)
4x Shrieking Affliction (RTR)
4x Smallpox (TSP)
15x Swamp (GUR)
4x The Rack (TSB)
4x Thoughtseize (THS)
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (M15)
4x Wrench Mind (MRD)
in my pov, davriel is a budget liliana of the veil.
of course it does all what the deck needs, but it brings nothing that our deck is missing (to level up our MU vs tron for example).
your goal with that deck is to discard the hand of your opponnent down to 0 as quick as possible, and to maintain it.
Well thats not quite right
8rack is somewhat a combo deck. It wants discard AND rack its opponent. One doesnt work without the other.
Thats a common scenario: bogles and auras, Angel's Grace and Ad Nauseam, Tron lands and payoffs
By using Davriel we higher counts on both setup and payoff cards, so we lower probability of fail.
Especially vs Tron we cant let them draw cards and just uptick Lili. Eventually they will assemble tron and hit their huge threats we cant handle. We need to close game fast.
in my pov, davriel is a budget liliana of the veil.
of course it does all what the deck needs, but it brings nothing that our deck is missing (to level up our MU vs tron for example).
your goal with that deck is to discard the hand of your opponnent down to 0 as quick as possible, and to maintain it.
Well thats not quite right
8rack is somewhat a combo deck. It wants discard AND rack its opponent. One doesnt work without the other.
Thats a common scenario: bogles and auras, Angel's Grace and Ad Nauseam, Tron lands and payoffs
By using Davriel we higher counts on both setup and payoff cards, so we lower probability of fail.
Especially vs Tron we cant let them draw cards and just uptick Lili. Eventually they will assemble tron and hit their huge threats we cant handle. We need to close game fast.
I will test darviel, i have to convince myself
Just a question : why darviel would be more played than nezumi shortfang ?
Because it does discards and no condition for the rack effect ?
I just afraid af the 3 CMC.
Maybe it is more relevant in a build without smallpox?
Huuu !!! That s a weird list !!
4 tapped lands as t1 in place of thoughtseize !
It permits tobintroduce a playset of CB for t2.
Bridge choosen over bontu's last reckogning => why not.
I dont like it.... but i m not top9 of a gp, maybe it is the reason lol.
I like that list a lot. Bridges and Bogs and damping spheres are very much a concession to dredge and Phoenix being what they are.
I think some of this is going to have to change with the new set, as Liliana's Triumph seems too good not to use and Darivel seems just better than that singleton Nezumi in the sideboard, especially in a list with bridges. The dredge lands are cute but I almost expect to see it backed up with some sort of delve card like Drop dead or Tasigur's Cruelty
The list for sure is adapted to beat meta with a lot of Dredge and Phoenix, thats why Bojuka Bog and 3 Raven's Crime. Tron hate is also big here with 2 Fields main and 3 Spheres, 2 Fulmninator side (btw Amulet was one of the best matchups for 8Rack, im like 10-0 games vs it.)
Choices that concern me
Nezumi side. Unuseal choice, I dont see him as strong sb card as he is narrow, slow and fragile. In side I'd prefer Dark Confidant, Delirium Skeins or Scepter of Fugue
4 Collective Brutality, maybe with Bridge this becomes one of the best card, but Im not sure its that good. Without Bridge even its inclusion in maindeck is questionable as its great only in very few matchups and meh in many
2 Dakmor Salvage, afaik that land is only for minicombo with Raven's Crime which is at 3. I think gain from a single Dakmor is already marginal to the point of being personal preference, but second is a lot
2 Urborgs. 4 is standard, I understand 3, but imo there is almost nothing to gain going to 2, only lose consistency, though this rack list has lower requirements for black (but 6 colorless sources!)
3 Ravens Crime. maybe thats a worst meta for Crime but imo Racks should play 4 to minimize loses to mana flood.
I wanted to say this sideboard lacks tools vs Aggro and Burn in particular but with 4 Brutalities main and only 1 Thoughtseize this should be good vs aggro, a nice strat to free sideboard space.
I like a more aggressive stance here as usual approach of trading cards stopped to work imo, its became too hard to play fair
There are a lot of powerful new cards that could potentially be put into 8 rack. Dreadhorde Arcanist Recast most of the spells. Dreadhorde Butcher Gets bigger on it's own and deals damage when it dies. Liliana's Triumph Extra discard bonus on turn 4. When you probably need to kill a creature anyway. Tyrant's Scorn Blue tint, good bounce or destroy effect. Ashiok, Dream Render Maybe a 1 or 2 off. Stops fetch lands. And you can exile just their graveyard. Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage spicy new rack. Jace's Triumph If you can find a way to sneak in a a jace there is a lot of value draw here. Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin Attacks and you get two goblin tokens. Then 3. This gives you a lot of blockers. Creatures to sacrifice to some other effect. Teferi, Time Raveler 3 colors is a bit much for this deck. Still a good effect. God-Eternal Kefnet Cost 4's but it fly's. Copy to most spells in the deck. Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion Probably not, if only because I'm not sure what to do with the red mana. Probably 2 red.
Anything that costs more than 4 needs to be very good. On the level of you win the game if you play it.
Anyone have any new builds with new cards you are trying out ? Anyone playing main deck graveyard removal?
Deck must do two things: discard, rack. If you put in every card that does something useful you would put in the whole magic.
There are a lot of powerful new cards that could potentially be put into 8 rack. Dreadhorde Arcanist Recast most of the spells. Dreadhorde Butcher Gets bigger on it's own and deals damage when it dies. Liliana's Triumph Extra discard bonus on turn 4. When you probably need to kill a creature anyway. Tyrant's Scorn Blue tint, good bounce or destroy effect. Ashiok, Dream Render Maybe a 1 or 2 off. Stops fetch lands. And you can exile just their graveyard. Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage spicy new rack. Jace's Triumph If you can find a way to sneak in a a jace there is a lot of value draw here. Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin Attacks and you get two goblin tokens. Then 3. This gives you a lot of blockers. Creatures to sacrifice to some other effect. Teferi, Time Raveler 3 colors is a bit much for this deck. Still a good effect. God-Eternal Kefnet Cost 4's but it fly's. Copy to most spells in the deck. Neheb, Dreadhorde Champion Probably not, if only because I'm not sure what to do with the red mana. Probably 2 red.
Anything that costs more than 4 needs to be very good. On the level of you win the game if you play it.
Anyone have any new builds with new cards you are trying out ? Anyone playing main deck graveyard removal?
Deck must do two things: discard, rack. If you put in every card that does something useful you would put in the whole magic.
Totally agree. I think the only useful cards are Davriel and Liliana's Triumph. Maybe Ashiok as a side
I actually think if we're open to splashing that Despark is the most exciting card in the set aside from Davriel. It's a single card that simultaneously deals with both leyline as well as the card advantage walkers that give us trouble like Jace and Teferi with a bit of utility in being useful against some creatures. I've played anguished unmaking in the past when I was splashing white and I think that this is generally going to be better when we want it, although I'm unconvinced that boarding to go after the leylines is ever going to be better than delirium skeins which was the direction I eventually settled on.
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4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Raven's Crime
4x Thoughtseize
2x Wrench Mind
4x Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage
4x Liliana of the Veil
2x Dakmor Salvage
4x Mutavault
16x Swamp
4x Ensnaring Bridge
4x The Rack
4x Liliana's Triumph
4x Shrieking Affliction
Sideboard
3x Bontu's Last Reckoning
3x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
3x Surgical Extraction
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
Thats not a reason to not play this card, but usually people choose sideboard cards that go well with maindeck
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
It looks slow with 3 CMC.
you're missing some instant, targetting spot removals : you can't just trust you opponenent when you're asking him to sac a creature (with triumph or lili) to sac the one that bother you the more
You have to be able to target some mana dork in the early game for example, or kill manlands eventhaugh there is a token on its side.
And once more, with that new extension, you will see more PW in the modern scape... The elder spell seems a good choice as a sideboard card.Or maybe the new "price of the betrayal".
4x Raven's Crime
3x Thoughtseize
3x Wrench Mind
4x Liliana of the Veil
2x funeral charm (count as a spor removal for dorks)
4x smallpox / bridge
3x Liliana's Triumph
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x The Rack
4x Mutavault
19x Swamp
3x Bontu's Last Reckoning => for me it is either bontu's last reck or bridge
2x the elder spell
2x Ratchet Bomb
3x delirium skeins
3x Surgical Extraction
2x pack rat
"Due to a lack of funding, the light at the end of the tunnel has been shut off."
I don't see what it brings to the deck. it looks very slow for our purpose.
therfore I dont like to inject more 3 CMC cards.
of course it does all what the deck needs, but it brings nothing that our deck is missing (to level up our MU vs tron for example).
but it slows you if you play it in place of wrenched mind for example.
your goal with that deck is to discard the hand of your opponnent down to 0 as quick as possible, and to maintain it.
1x Dakmor Salvage (FUT)
4x Fatal Push (000)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek (ROE)
4x Liliana of the Veil (ISD)
4x Mutavault (M14)
4x Raven's Crime (EVE)
4x Shrieking Affliction (RTR)
4x Smallpox (TSP)
15x Swamp (GUR)
4x The Rack (TSB)
4x Thoughtseize (THS)
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (M15)
4x Wrench Mind (MRD)
SIDEBOARD
2x Darkblast (RAV)
4x Grafdigger's Cage (DKA)
4x Pack Rat (RTR)
4x Surgical Extraction (NPH)
1x Vengeful Pharaoh (M12)
8rack is somewhat a combo deck. It wants discard AND rack its opponent. One doesnt work without the other.
Thats a common scenario: bogles and auras, Angel's Grace and Ad Nauseam, Tron lands and payoffs
By using Davriel we higher counts on both setup and payoff cards, so we lower probability of fail.
Especially vs Tron we cant let them draw cards and just uptick Lili. Eventually they will assemble tron and hit their huge threats we cant handle. We need to close game fast.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I will test darviel, i have to convince myself
Just a question : why darviel would be more played than nezumi shortfang ?
Because it does discards and no condition for the rack effect ?
I just afraid af the 3 CMC.
Maybe it is more relevant in a build without smallpox?
Nezumi is definitely slow and fragile, he does everything we want, but he does it bad
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
4 tapped lands as t1 in place of thoughtseize !
It permits tobintroduce a playset of CB for t2.
Bridge choosen over bontu's last reckogning => why not.
I dont like it.... but i m not top9 of a gp, maybe it is the reason lol.
Surely are these meta adaptation.
I think some of this is going to have to change with the new set, as Liliana's Triumph seems too good not to use and Darivel seems just better than that singleton Nezumi in the sideboard, especially in a list with bridges. The dredge lands are cute but I almost expect to see it backed up with some sort of delve card like Drop dead or Tasigur's Cruelty
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
4 Collective Brutality
2 Delirium Skeins
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Raven's Crime
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Smallpox
4 The Rack
1 Thoughtseize
3 Wrench Mind
2 Bojuka Bog
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Field of Ruin
4 Mutavault
12 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Damping Sphere
3 Dark Confidant
1 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Nezumi Shortfang
The list for sure is adapted to beat meta with a lot of Dredge and Phoenix, thats why Bojuka Bog and 3 Raven's Crime. Tron hate is also big here with 2 Fields main and 3 Spheres, 2 Fulmninator side (btw Amulet was one of the best matchups for 8Rack, im like 10-0 games vs it.)
Choices that concern me
Nezumi side. Unuseal choice, I dont see him as strong sb card as he is narrow, slow and fragile. In side I'd prefer Dark Confidant, Delirium Skeins or Scepter of Fugue
4 Collective Brutality, maybe with Bridge this becomes one of the best card, but Im not sure its that good. Without Bridge even its inclusion in maindeck is questionable as its great only in very few matchups and meh in many
2 Dakmor Salvage, afaik that land is only for minicombo with Raven's Crime which is at 3. I think gain from a single Dakmor is already marginal to the point of being personal preference, but second is a lot
2 Urborgs. 4 is standard, I understand 3, but imo there is almost nothing to gain going to 2, only lose consistency, though this rack list has lower requirements for black (but 6 colorless sources!)
3 Ravens Crime. maybe thats a worst meta for Crime but imo Racks should play 4 to minimize loses to mana flood.
I wanted to say this sideboard lacks tools vs Aggro and Burn in particular but with 4 Brutalities main and only 1 Thoughtseize this should be good vs aggro, a nice strat to free sideboard space.
I like a more aggressive stance here as usual approach of trading cards stopped to work imo, its became too hard to play fair
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
https://youtu.be/e2CuEIwUuzc
I thing I will give to Davriel a chance. What do you thing about this decklist?
PLANESWALKERS (6)
2 Davriel Rogue Shadowmage
4 Liliana of the Veil
SPELLS (20)
3 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
3 Thoughtseize
2 Liliana's Triumph
4 Smallpox
ARTIFACTS (6)
4 The Rack
2 Ensnaring Bridge
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Shrieking Affliction
LANDS (24)
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Mutavault
14 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
SIDEBOARD
2 Extirpate
3 Collective Brutality
1 Damping Sphere
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Delirium Skeins
3 Ravenous Trap
Thanks!
Totally agree. I think the only useful cards are Davriel and Liliana's Triumph. Maybe Ashiok as a side