scrying sheets is bad in 8rack, I play skred and I know the sheets work on it because we get a lot of mana and 8rack usually keeps 2-4 lands on the table, otherwise the skred behaves reactively and that It leaves me free to use the skills of the sheets. The 8rack on the other hand most of the time is proactive always trying to make the opponent discard something so we are always using mana, coupled with the fact that we use smallpox and we have few mars at the table we can not effectively use the sheets.
Also bad is the fact that the larger the amount of land nonblack, the greater the probality we will trade a turn without land black or hamper cast liliana or wrench mind
I know why I want to splash, it's because of leylines, chalices, and anything else that's going to be a rock in the way of 8rack. We do not just need good cards, we need efficient cards and that's exactly what we used to splash to meet the need of the deck. You talk so much about cost and you do not see how costly it can be to keep the monoblack platform, closing the range of possibilities that another color can bring. But okay I understand that it is difficult to change only that even with some splah the 8rack remains 8rack.
The deck remains the same as changing the 4-5 side slot, the deck is already using fetchlands because of the fatal push, the decks are not packed with shocklands only have only one BW and this is totally acceptable.
Well I'm going to continue with my idea BW 8rack who wants to contribute I'm open ears, there are a month and a few days until the GP and 8rack is at the top of the list, I want to arrive with the best possible version, balance disadvantages and improve the winrate of the others.
Splashing is nothing new and most lists are still monoblack
There is a nice database on mtggoldfish.com that you can use to see statistics of the deck.
The fact that there are almost zero lists with Disenchant in sideboard makes me think idea of splashing white to beat Leyline and Chalice is not viable.
There is Fragmentize, but how do you fragmentize Chalice on 1?
It is easy to say 'its hard to change'. I think about alternative cards when I play games - 'if this was that, would it be better?' - and I almost never wanted Lingering Souls or Disenchant. Like real replacements, because its easy to think 'I discarded Liliana, it would be cool if it was Lingering Souls instead'. or 'I drew Inquisition, it would be better to draw Tombstalker now' but that is not fair comparison. 8Rack already plays 8-11 non basic lands. If you add 4-8 more you get a deck that folds to Blood Moon given how black dependent we are. And there are other strategies that punish nonbasics like DnT and Burn. Im not saying splash is bad. But it doesnt provide more value than it takes in my opinion. You want to fight Leyline and Chalice? I beat them with monoblack. So why do I need to lower my winrates against Blood Moon and Burn? What matchups are gonna be improved, by how much? What matchups will suffer, by how much? Btw 8Rack is not locked into fetches. I play them as semi-test, I see decks winning tourneys without fetches. Fatal Push needs a lot of fetches for full potential and it warped meta to became a worse card (I open mtggoldfish Jund and what I see? It plays singleton 'black bolt'). Im playing two and Im even thinking of going back to one because it is very narrow and versatility is very important in 8Rack: you failed to exchange your card for theirs - you start to lose.
Scrying Sheets I think has a working scenario: we sit on 4 lands, if we draw 1cc spell we play it and activate SS on opps end step, if successful thats an additional Ravens Crime to fight card advantage
Its unfortunate we get only 25-28% of drawing
Btw I thought I posted about Field of Ruin but I cant find that post
Best alternative land in my opinion is Field of Ruin, it hurts Tron and manlands both of which we have a lot of troubles with (we usually have only instant 4-5 removals to destroy them)
FoR is a better Ghost Quarter which I disliked because of card disadvantage
2-0 against U Moon. My opponent couldn't get started and the games were pretty easy. Infernal Tutor won the game both times for me. Game 1 I tutored a Rack for the win. Game 2 I knew he had Land, Land, Cryptic. I had Delirium Skiens, Tutor in hand and a rack and 5 lands on board. I cast tutor with the mind set of either casting DS if he counters or double casting DS next turn if he doesn't. He didn't counter and I tutored up DS and easily won after two DSs (one got countered).
2-1 against UW Approach. This is UW control with Approach, As foretold, AV, Balance, Lotus Bloom. I lost game 1 to Jace. Games 2 and 3 I won mostly off of Delirium Skeins. The AVs were hard to beat. Jace was nearly impossible without my SB Bitterblossoms + Mutavaults. It was a super close match.
I intentionally tied with my third opponent because he asked me to. We played the games for fun and I went 2-1. He was playing Bogles (So in hindsight he may have been trying to hedge his bets. I agreed to it so no harm done). These were for-fun games so they are less meaningful (he kept a no lander game 2). This was the only match I got to activate scrying sheets and it was great. Once I stabilized the board I just waited him out with Liliana and a couple racks (he had leyline). Scrying Sheets probably drew me 3 lands over 5+ turns and got me to my action spells faster. I will note that had this Sheets been a Mutavault it probably would have been better in this situation (no creatures, leyline means no raven's crime).
I got really lucky in this game (I got about 50% hits with Scrying Sheets when I should have gotten 25%) but in the late game when you have nothing else to do it's very powerful. I would say a 1 of is fine if you are willing to cut other utility lands like Dakmor Salvage and Fetches (these lands aren't doing all that much for the deck anyway).
Thanks for reading!
Any thoughts on Mouth of Ronom? It's got to be way too slow requiring 6 total lands to activate. But if you get a Scrying Sheets going you do accelerate your lands faster than usual. But if anyone thinks it might be worth testing I'll consider it! A 6th colorless lands seems too deep also. What would you all consider to be the max number of colorless lands? 5 seemed OK in my minimal testing.
Any thoughts on my pile of instant speed removal? fatal push seems bad without Fetch lands. Maybe I should just go all dismember but that sounds painful.
I have one quick question: I know we almost always take the draw but do we ever take the play? I took the play against Bogles because it is such a fast deck. If I can Thoughtseize his one creature then I'm way ahead. Is it right to take the play here? and are there any other match ups you take the play?
hey guys this weekend I played with version BW 8rack, I made small changes, in case I used 23 lands instead of 24, I added Infernal tutor. On the sideboard I took out the fragmentize and put in another 1x disenchant and put 1x Anguished Unmaking, I put out the ligering souls and put it in place 2x Night of Souls' Betrayal because of mardu pyromancer and affinity.
The matches:
1- vs Valakut - 2-0 is a quieter match, my opponent in g2 mulligan and this helped a lot.
2 - vs Jeskai Mentor - 2-1 this match was balanced I won the g1, I tried to get the counters out of the opponent's hand. in G2 I made a mistake I should have taken Spell Queller out of the opponent's hand and he was able to undo a major spell and played another Spell Queller and did not come removals, G3 I was taking care of throwing baits for my opponent to cancel and make room for me to play main magics as I played a surgical mana leak that was in the cemetery because I knew he had one in his hand forcing him to play the Spell Queller by spending the manas from there I played the smallpox that released the surgical and then just controlled the game.
3- vs Jeskai Control 0-2 This match was good so I could analyze what lies ahead with new teferi. G1 the opponent was able to play Secure the Wastes and made many tokens and was hitting them and with Celestial Colonnade, no chance. I even had Bontu's Last Reckoning for main but it did not come. G2 is where the game begins, it was well balanced, I managed to take many points of life from the opponent I used the infernal tutor to Anguished Unmaking and take off teferi instead of the field, but he lowered another teferi and along with azcanta bought many cards and I lost the game.
4 - vs Humans 0-2 I do not know how to explain this match, maybe the best explanation for the game would be luck, because in the G1 did not buy any finisher, I detonated all the lands and creatures of the opponent more after he recovered. G2 my removals did not appear so he lowered very fast and hit heavy, I bounced 3x Bontu's Last Reckoning and did not come. I've lost.
5 - vs afinnity - 2 -1 After a devastating G1 in which my opponent won with infect, G2 got by 3x mutavault and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth I was killing the creatures of the opponent and knocking with mutavault and even downloaded a rack. G3 has been controlling the game and killing the creatures of the opponent and removing the unwanted artifacts with disenchant and causing damage with rack and affliction.
in fact 3-2 really I would not win the match against jeskai control and this worries me because he bought many cards and teferi is very good, azcanta filters well the draws. For a moments I thought I really needed delirium skeins but the recovery of the opponent was so fast in buying cards that I would rather have the lingering souls to go undermining him 2 -3 life points that in the end made a difference. Maybe if I had the waste not I had bought more cards and done more stuff.
Disenchant and Anguished Unmaking have been very useful only to have more of an Anguished Unmaking think it is very loss of life.
The important thing is that with this white splash it leaves a window open for improvements on the deck that I think go testing over time.
Hi! I'm back from a hiatus of the deck, why did people drop the Ensnaring Bridges?
It looked really good to defend ourselves.
I think bridge is fine. The main issue I see with it is that it gets hit by the same removal our racks do: disenchant effects. Running 12 artifacts / enchantments might overload their removal but giving your opponent options is never good. I've never played with the card so I'm not sure how effective it is. Bontu's Last Reckoning seems to play a similar role.
Is Night of Soul's Betrayal worth it? 4 mana seems like a tough cost. I think I would rather play bridge or more board wipes, especially Damnation.
a while ago the deck played with 2x Is Night of Souls' Betrayal on the side, then began to appear decks with large creatures so had to fall out. But in the goal I'm playing and observing has a lot of small creatures deck, mardu pyromancer, humans have many creatures with resistance 1, affinity, elves, counter company, some D & T and etc.
I've been thinking since Sunday what I can improve on the deck placing 4x fulminator mage might turn out to be good against tron, eldrazi and jeskai decks. Azcanta put a question in my mind, I can not allow it to turn ground. But it is not certain that I will destroy it with fulminator, perhaps if I increase the amount of leyline of the void I prevent it from turning, but the problem that 8rack does not have many flexible slots, I can not replace surgical or else by leyline I remember one of the keys to Skred's victory in the GP was relic of progenitus, both in the semi final and in the end he picked up two control and skred decks that controlled the game with serious control.
I already played with 61 cards, being 1 surgical of main, to open a slot in the sideboard. It worked? until it fucnionou, but it is complicated to explain if it is worth it or not.
I played Night of Souls B for a long time but decided to shave it because it was rarely used and 4 mana is a lot for 23 lands and the fact that I generally want to stay on 3 lands
Its not that great vs Affinity because its a dead card before 4 lands and you know affinity is fast, but if you land it you most likely winning from that spot. Half the times because you were winning already.
I can see putting it back because Mardu should be too much of a card advantage without it.
Though two copies is an overkill imo. First is not super great because of the reasons mentioned above and second is a dead card 99% of times
I can see using Field of Ruin instead of Fulminator Mage. I wont run 4 copies of Fulminator because I rarely use them
Bridge was discussed million times. It can be useful, but almost any deck has an answer for it mainboard and all of them can deal with him postboard and side artifact hate anyway. Card exchange is generally better suits deck's strategy.
Any thoughts on my pile of instant speed removal? fatal push seems bad without Fetch lands. Maybe I should just go all dismember but that sounds painful.
Single Fatal Push is ok. Im not big on Bontu because its 3cc and wont run second copy main.
I have one quick question: I know we almost always take the draw but do we ever take the play? I took the play against Bogles because it is such a fast deck. If I can Thoughtseize his one creature then I'm way ahead. Is it right to take the play here? and are there any other match ups you take the play?
Taking draw is card advantage. Generally it is very important. But in many cases card advantage wont matter, you better disrupt your opponent t1. I take play against Burn, Bogles, Merfolks, Lantern, Dredge, Reanimator, Affinity, Counters Company and Tron.
Btw Cast Out is a solid removal given there are only 3 legendary creatures among top50 used (by mtggoldfish): Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vendilion Clique and Kataki, War's Wage but we arent going to face last
Dismember wont kill 4 creatures, with a number of '0.5' creatures that can grow
Fatal Push is 20/5 for no-revolt/revolt modes
But in the goal I'm playing and observing has a lot of small creatures deck, mardu pyromancer, humans have many creatures with resistance 1, affinity, elves, counter company, some D & T and etc.
If your meta is full of those decks then I think a NoSB or two is fine. My meta has close to 0 of these decks though. It's a sweet card.
Regarding the deck: I don't like the singleton Bridge, but I've never played with it so I don't know. I think mainboard is the best place for it though. Then we can board it and sidestep their hate with pack rat or something. I'm a believer in 4x raven's crime. I can't think of a situation I wouldn't want 4x. Especially going up to 24 lands (though some are fetch lands). Not sure why he has illness in the ranks AND Ratchet Bomb in his Sideboard. that's a lot of redundancy for tokens. I think the main reason to go BW is for Lingering Souls + Disenchant though and this deck is missing the Souls.
Single Fatal Push is ok. Im not big on Bontu because its 3cc and wont run second copy main.
Taking draw is card advantage. Generally it is very important. But in many cases card advantage wont matter, you better disrupt your opponent t1. I take play against Burn, Bogles, Merfolks, Lantern, Dredge, Reanimator, Affinity, Counters Company and Tron.
Btw Cast Out is a solid removal given there are only 3 legendary creatures among top50 used (by mtggoldfish): Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Vendilion Clique and Kataki, War's Wage but we arent going to face last
Dismember wont kill 4 creatures, with a number of '0.5' creatures that can grow
Fatal Push is 20/5 for no-revolt/revolt modes
Fatal Push has felt kind of bad when I can't trigger revolt reliably. I think 2 is my max right now. I like the versatility of Dismember (especially with 5 colorless lands in my deck). Murderous Cut has been OK. Sometimes I just don't have enough of a GY to use it though. Cast Down is cool but can be a little too expensive sometimes at 2cmc. I might try playing 1 or 2.
Bontu's is the real deal. It's such a blow out when your opponent goes all in on racing you. Maybe taking out 1 is good though since it's so expensive. I can always tutor for it.
Bill Gergen is playing 8rack in Open of Starcity games, I think this 7-2 if anyone knows he would like to know which matches he missed. Cheering for him to go top8 and be champion.
Hi guys! Some days ago I decided to get into the swing of Modern and chose the 8-Rack. While searching the net and supervising various variations of this deck I came up with this list:
Because of I am on the budget there aren't any expensive lands, thoughtseize's, etc. I would like to know your opinion on the deck in general and especially on the Sideboard, thanks!
I think you should have 8 rack effects but for a budget deck it looks pretty close to my non-budget version. Against control decks I SB in a few Necrogen mists on top of my LOTV. If possible I would like to see you increase that card to 4 of, since discarding 1 card a turn is the main effect we'd be using on LOTV anyway.
I had a question. With the new rules where the Rack won't be able to target planeswalkers. How are people dealing with that? I find it significantly weakened our deck especially VS planeswalkers who help draw cards. We really don't have a way of dealing with them now.
Yeah, that seems reasonable. Considering the Planeswalker-threat personally I have two copies of Ratchet Bomb. I am not saying it is the best solution but Ratchet bomb can esaily deal with tokens, some unpleasant stuff like Detention sphere and also Planeswalkers. Especially when you know what to expect from the opponent.
Hi guys! Some days ago I decided to get into the swing of Modern and chose the 8-Rack. While searching the net and supervising various variations of this deck I came up with this list:
Because of I am on the budget there aren't any expensive lands, thoughtseize's, etc. I would like to know your opinion on the deck in general and especially on the Sideboard, thanks!
Duress is not a mainboard card, Bile Blight also is not universal enough
Death's Shadow, Shadow of Doubt, Extirpate are not universally played in competitive builds, so why use them in budget build
Funeral Charm and Wrench Mind are great, max them
I prefer Tendrils over Bontu because mass creatures usually come with low toughness, not high. And exile is very relevant
Ratchet Bomb is rather clunky
Night of Souls' Betrayal would be hard on 22 mana
Regarding Planeswalkers, I have 0 targeted planeswalker removal in my 75. I was playing a UW deck who layed Jace and just won game 1 because I had nothing for it. But the deck is tight enough that I won the other two games. The idea is to not let them stick the PW. You can also attack with Mutavaults. But in the end, PWs are not prevalent in the meta so don't worry too much about them.
I agree with macrovitch on the board wipes. Bontu's is a house. My view on board wipes is that if you are killing 2+ creatures you are winning on cards. All that 8rack cares about is winning on cards. Make sure you are in a position to take a turn off though because that lost turn can hurt sometimes. Especially against hastey creatures.
I've been thinking about what would make this deck better.
I think we need a land which produces B. That we can pay 2 and make the opponent discard a card. Something similar to geier reach sanitarium only as a discard only affect without the drawing. I'd even be ok if it made us discard as well.
OR, some card that takes out leylines, but being mono black I couldn't imagine an effect that would work. All I could think of is something like destroy target permanent you lose life equal to it's casting cost. That way we have an answer to leylines, we just have to gauge whether we can risk the life loss or not. I'd have it cost 1BB.
That'd be my dream, something to answer planeswalkers and leylines.
What do you guys think of Tezzeret's Gambit as a one/two of against decks like tron or red prison? I get that it's slow - but it can bring you out of a very lost game.
What do you guys think of Tezzeret's Gambit as a one/two of against decks like tron or red prison? I get that it's slow - but it can bring you out of a very lost game.
Why wouldn't you just play Night's Whisper? Seems like a strict upgrade... Drawing cards is good out of the board if you really have that many slow decks in your meta. But make sure you don't over sideboard for one or two match ups out of 30 people at your lgs or wherever you play.
Does anyone else have problems with UW control or Jeskai control?
I find I can't finish them off early and just by shear top decking they start getting too much card advantage, they've got cryptic command, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Search for Azcanta, snapcaster mage (getting more card draw) they get too much card advantage my discard can't keep up. Even if I do get lucky and pick out the card draw engines in the opening hand all their cards cycle through their deck so naturally they get land advantage and card advantage so they find their answers.
Ticks me off because blue I find is by far the most common decks on MTGO.
We need a card like chains of mephistopheles for modern. Something to combat all the extra draw.
But of those discard engines 3 of the 4 hurt us as well. Unlike control's draw engines which exclusively help them. Seems like we're getting a bad deal.
The way I view mindstab is it gives the opponent alot of warning what's coming. Most opponent are generally out of cards by the time mindstab goes off just playing the game normally. While they might typically hold on to more cards knowing they are up against 8 rack the suspend gives them a big warning to dump their hand and unless they are control they can probably very easily dump their hand. So even when mindstab does go off, it's probably highly unlikely your going to get 3 cards.
Waste Not in my opinion doesn't really earn it's keep. If they discard land most of the time our spells are so cheap we can't take advantage of it. When you get 2/2's you typically aren't getting enough to significantly impact a game. The card advantage is all you really want which can't really be controlled. I have a waste not deck specifically abusing waste not, it uses burning inquiry, dark deal, collective defiance to really abuse the discard triggers but I find it doesn't really get going until you have 2 wastes not's on the field working together. I don't think it's a good fit into 8 Rack but to each their own.
I don't run pithing needle or graffdigger's cage in my sideboard but I'd consider it. Control gives me problems which both these SB cards would help against.
epochrasite never tried it, never considered it, I have no opinion. Let us know how it works.
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Also bad is the fact that the larger the amount of land nonblack, the greater the probality we will trade a turn without land black or hamper cast liliana or wrench mind
There is a nice database on mtggoldfish.com that you can use to see statistics of the deck.
The fact that there are almost zero lists with Disenchant in sideboard makes me think idea of splashing white to beat Leyline and Chalice is not viable.
There is Fragmentize, but how do you fragmentize Chalice on 1?
It is easy to say 'its hard to change'. I think about alternative cards when I play games - 'if this was that, would it be better?' - and I almost never wanted Lingering Souls or Disenchant. Like real replacements, because its easy to think 'I discarded Liliana, it would be cool if it was Lingering Souls instead'. or 'I drew Inquisition, it would be better to draw Tombstalker now' but that is not fair comparison. 8Rack already plays 8-11 non basic lands. If you add 4-8 more you get a deck that folds to Blood Moon given how black dependent we are. And there are other strategies that punish nonbasics like DnT and Burn. Im not saying splash is bad. But it doesnt provide more value than it takes in my opinion. You want to fight Leyline and Chalice? I beat them with monoblack. So why do I need to lower my winrates against Blood Moon and Burn? What matchups are gonna be improved, by how much? What matchups will suffer, by how much? Btw 8Rack is not locked into fetches. I play them as semi-test, I see decks winning tourneys without fetches. Fatal Push needs a lot of fetches for full potential and it warped meta to became a worse card (I open mtggoldfish Jund and what I see? It plays singleton 'black bolt'). Im playing two and Im even thinking of going back to one because it is very narrow and versatility is very important in 8Rack: you failed to exchange your card for theirs - you start to lose.
Scrying Sheets I think has a working scenario: we sit on 4 lands, if we draw 1cc spell we play it and activate SS on opps end step, if successful thats an additional Ravens Crime to fight card advantage
Its unfortunate we get only 25-28% of drawing
Btw I thought I posted about Field of Ruin but I cant find that post
Best alternative land in my opinion is Field of Ruin, it hurts Tron and manlands both of which we have a lot of troubles with (we usually have only instant 4-5 removals to destroy them)
FoR is a better Ghost Quarter which I disliked because of card disadvantage
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
1x Infernal Tutor
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Raven's Crime
4x Smallpox
3x Thoughtseize
3x Wrench Mind
Artifact (4)
4x The Rack
3x Mutavault
2x Scrying Sheets
14x Snow-Covered Swamp
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Instant (4)
2x Dismember
1x Fatal Push
1x Murderous Cut
Planeswalker (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Shrieking Affliction
2x Bitterblossom
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
2x Collective Brutality
3x Delirium Skeins
3x Leyline of the Void
3x Pack Rat
I went 2-0-1.
2-0 against U Moon. My opponent couldn't get started and the games were pretty easy. Infernal Tutor won the game both times for me. Game 1 I tutored a Rack for the win. Game 2 I knew he had Land, Land, Cryptic. I had Delirium Skiens, Tutor in hand and a rack and 5 lands on board. I cast tutor with the mind set of either casting DS if he counters or double casting DS next turn if he doesn't. He didn't counter and I tutored up DS and easily won after two DSs (one got countered).
2-1 against UW Approach. This is UW control with Approach, As foretold, AV, Balance, Lotus Bloom. I lost game 1 to Jace. Games 2 and 3 I won mostly off of Delirium Skeins. The AVs were hard to beat. Jace was nearly impossible without my SB Bitterblossoms + Mutavaults. It was a super close match.
I intentionally tied with my third opponent because he asked me to. We played the games for fun and I went 2-1. He was playing Bogles (So in hindsight he may have been trying to hedge his bets. I agreed to it so no harm done). These were for-fun games so they are less meaningful (he kept a no lander game 2). This was the only match I got to activate scrying sheets and it was great. Once I stabilized the board I just waited him out with Liliana and a couple racks (he had leyline). Scrying Sheets probably drew me 3 lands over 5+ turns and got me to my action spells faster. I will note that had this Sheets been a Mutavault it probably would have been better in this situation (no creatures, leyline means no raven's crime).
I got really lucky in this game (I got about 50% hits with Scrying Sheets when I should have gotten 25%) but in the late game when you have nothing else to do it's very powerful. I would say a 1 of is fine if you are willing to cut other utility lands like Dakmor Salvage and Fetches (these lands aren't doing all that much for the deck anyway).
Thanks for reading!
Any thoughts on Mouth of Ronom? It's got to be way too slow requiring 6 total lands to activate. But if you get a Scrying Sheets going you do accelerate your lands faster than usual. But if anyone thinks it might be worth testing I'll consider it! A 6th colorless lands seems too deep also. What would you all consider to be the max number of colorless lands? 5 seemed OK in my minimal testing.
Any thoughts on my pile of instant speed removal? fatal push seems bad without Fetch lands. Maybe I should just go all dismember but that sounds painful.
I have one quick question: I know we almost always take the draw but do we ever take the play? I took the play against Bogles because it is such a fast deck. If I can Thoughtseize his one creature then I'm way ahead. Is it right to take the play here? and are there any other match ups you take the play?
The matches:
1- vs Valakut - 2-0 is a quieter match, my opponent in g2 mulligan and this helped a lot.
2 - vs Jeskai Mentor - 2-1 this match was balanced I won the g1, I tried to get the counters out of the opponent's hand. in G2 I made a mistake I should have taken Spell Queller out of the opponent's hand and he was able to undo a major spell and played another Spell Queller and did not come removals, G3 I was taking care of throwing baits for my opponent to cancel and make room for me to play main magics as I played a surgical mana leak that was in the cemetery because I knew he had one in his hand forcing him to play the Spell Queller by spending the manas from there I played the smallpox that released the surgical and then just controlled the game.
3- vs Jeskai Control 0-2 This match was good so I could analyze what lies ahead with new teferi. G1 the opponent was able to play Secure the Wastes and made many tokens and was hitting them and with Celestial Colonnade, no chance. I even had Bontu's Last Reckoning for main but it did not come. G2 is where the game begins, it was well balanced, I managed to take many points of life from the opponent I used the infernal tutor to Anguished Unmaking and take off teferi instead of the field, but he lowered another teferi and along with azcanta bought many cards and I lost the game.
4 - vs Humans 0-2 I do not know how to explain this match, maybe the best explanation for the game would be luck, because in the G1 did not buy any finisher, I detonated all the lands and creatures of the opponent more after he recovered. G2 my removals did not appear so he lowered very fast and hit heavy, I bounced 3x Bontu's Last Reckoning and did not come. I've lost.
5 - vs afinnity - 2 -1 After a devastating G1 in which my opponent won with infect, G2 got by 3x mutavault and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth I was killing the creatures of the opponent and knocking with mutavault and even downloaded a rack. G3 has been controlling the game and killing the creatures of the opponent and removing the unwanted artifacts with disenchant and causing damage with rack and affliction.
in fact 3-2 really I would not win the match against jeskai control and this worries me because he bought many cards and teferi is very good, azcanta filters well the draws. For a moments I thought I really needed delirium skeins but the recovery of the opponent was so fast in buying cards that I would rather have the lingering souls to go undermining him 2 -3 life points that in the end made a difference. Maybe if I had the waste not I had bought more cards and done more stuff.
Disenchant and Anguished Unmaking have been very useful only to have more of an Anguished Unmaking think it is very loss of life.
The important thing is that with this white splash it leaves a window open for improvements on the deck that I think go testing over time.
Is Night of Soul's Betrayal worth it? 4 mana seems like a tough cost. I think I would rather play bridge or more board wipes, especially Damnation.
I think bridge is fine. The main issue I see with it is that it gets hit by the same removal our racks do: disenchant effects. Running 12 artifacts / enchantments might overload their removal but giving your opponent options is never good. I've never played with the card so I'm not sure how effective it is. Bontu's Last Reckoning seems to play a similar role.
a while ago the deck played with 2x Is Night of Souls' Betrayal on the side, then began to appear decks with large creatures so had to fall out. But in the goal I'm playing and observing has a lot of small creatures deck, mardu pyromancer, humans have many creatures with resistance 1, affinity, elves, counter company, some D & T and etc.
I've been thinking since Sunday what I can improve on the deck placing 4x fulminator mage might turn out to be good against tron, eldrazi and jeskai decks. Azcanta put a question in my mind, I can not allow it to turn ground. But it is not certain that I will destroy it with fulminator, perhaps if I increase the amount of leyline of the void I prevent it from turning, but the problem that 8rack does not have many flexible slots, I can not replace surgical or else by leyline I remember one of the keys to Skred's victory in the GP was relic of progenitus, both in the semi final and in the end he picked up two control and skred decks that controlled the game with serious control.
I already played with 61 cards, being 1 surgical of main, to open a slot in the sideboard. It worked? until it fucnionou, but it is complicated to explain if it is worth it or not.
one more idea BW version
https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18856&d=318028&f=MO
Its not that great vs Affinity because its a dead card before 4 lands and you know affinity is fast, but if you land it you most likely winning from that spot. Half the times because you were winning already.
I can see putting it back because Mardu should be too much of a card advantage without it.
Though two copies is an overkill imo. First is not super great because of the reasons mentioned above and second is a dead card 99% of times
I can see using Field of Ruin instead of Fulminator Mage. I wont run 4 copies of Fulminator because I rarely use them
Bridge was discussed million times. It can be useful, but almost any deck has an answer for it mainboard and all of them can deal with him postboard and side artifact hate anyway. Card exchange is generally better suits deck's strategy.
Single Fatal Push is ok. Im not big on Bontu because its 3cc and wont run second copy main.
Taking draw is card advantage. Generally it is very important. But in many cases card advantage wont matter, you better disrupt your opponent t1. I take play against Burn, Bogles, Merfolks, Lantern, Dredge, Reanimator, Affinity, Counters Company and Tron.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Dismember wont kill 4 creatures, with a number of '0.5' creatures that can grow
Fatal Push is 20/5 for no-revolt/revolt modes
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
If your meta is full of those decks then I think a NoSB or two is fine. My meta has close to 0 of these decks though. It's a sweet card.
Regarding the deck: I don't like the singleton Bridge, but I've never played with it so I don't know. I think mainboard is the best place for it though. Then we can board it and sidestep their hate with pack rat or something. I'm a believer in 4x raven's crime. I can't think of a situation I wouldn't want 4x. Especially going up to 24 lands (though some are fetch lands). Not sure why he has illness in the ranks AND Ratchet Bomb in his Sideboard. that's a lot of redundancy for tokens. I think the main reason to go BW is for Lingering Souls + Disenchant though and this deck is missing the Souls.
Fatal Push has felt kind of bad when I can't trigger revolt reliably. I think 2 is my max right now. I like the versatility of Dismember (especially with 5 colorless lands in my deck). Murderous Cut has been OK. Sometimes I just don't have enough of a GY to use it though. Cast Down is cool but can be a little too expensive sometimes at 2cmc. I might try playing 1 or 2.
Bontu's is the real deal. It's such a blow out when your opponent goes all in on racing you. Maybe taking out 1 is good though since it's so expensive. I can always tutor for it.
4 Duress
2 Funeral Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
2 Bile Blight
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Smallpox
2 Wrench Mind
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Shrieking Affliction
2 Necrogen Mists
1 Phyrexian Arena
2 Dakmor Salvage
20 Swamp
1 Death's Shadow
1 Asylum Visitor
2 Pack Rat
1 Extirpate
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Delirium Skeins
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
Because of I am on the budget there aren't any expensive lands, thoughtseize's, etc. I would like to know your opinion on the deck in general and especially on the Sideboard, thanks!
I had a question. With the new rules where the Rack won't be able to target planeswalkers. How are people dealing with that? I find it significantly weakened our deck especially VS planeswalkers who help draw cards. We really don't have a way of dealing with them now.
4 Funeral Charm
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
3 Blackmail
4 Wrench Mind
3 Necrogen Mists
Removal (8)
4 Smallpox
1 Cast Down
2 Geth's Verdict
1 Dismember
4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
Lands (22)
2 Dakmor Salvage
20 Swamp
1 Bile Blight
2 Duress
2 Asylum Visitor
2 Pack Rat
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Delirium Skeins
3 Nihil Spellbomb
Duress is not a mainboard card, Bile Blight also is not universal enough
Death's Shadow, Shadow of Doubt, Extirpate are not universally played in competitive builds, so why use them in budget build
Funeral Charm and Wrench Mind are great, max them
I prefer Tendrils over Bontu because mass creatures usually come with low toughness, not high. And exile is very relevant
Ratchet Bomb is rather clunky
Night of Souls' Betrayal would be hard on 22 mana
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I agree with macrovitch on the board wipes. Bontu's is a house. My view on board wipes is that if you are killing 2+ creatures you are winning on cards. All that 8rack cares about is winning on cards. Make sure you are in a position to take a turn off though because that lost turn can hurt sometimes. Especially against hastey creatures.
I think we need a land which produces B. That we can pay 2 and make the opponent discard a card. Something similar to geier reach sanitarium only as a discard only affect without the drawing. I'd even be ok if it made us discard as well.
OR, some card that takes out leylines, but being mono black I couldn't imagine an effect that would work. All I could think of is something like destroy target permanent you lose life equal to it's casting cost. That way we have an answer to leylines, we just have to gauge whether we can risk the life loss or not. I'd have it cost 1BB.
That'd be my dream, something to answer planeswalkers and leylines.
What do you guys think of Tezzeret's Gambit as a one/two of against decks like tron or red prison? I get that it's slow - but it can bring you out of a very lost game.
Why wouldn't you just play Night's Whisper? Seems like a strict upgrade... Drawing cards is good out of the board if you really have that many slow decks in your meta. But make sure you don't over sideboard for one or two match ups out of 30 people at your lgs or wherever you play.
I find I can't finish them off early and just by shear top decking they start getting too much card advantage, they've got cryptic command, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Search for Azcanta, snapcaster mage (getting more card draw) they get too much card advantage my discard can't keep up. Even if I do get lucky and pick out the card draw engines in the opening hand all their cards cycle through their deck so naturally they get land advantage and card advantage so they find their answers.
Ticks me off because blue I find is by far the most common decks on MTGO.
We need a card like chains of mephistopheles for modern. Something to combat all the extra draw.
All I'm saying is there are far more card advantage engines than discard engines. Discard all we really have is liliana of the veil, necrogen mist, Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palaceand kind of nezumi shortfang
But of those discard engines 3 of the 4 hurt us as well. Unlike control's draw engines which exclusively help them. Seems like we're getting a bad deal.
Waste Not in my opinion doesn't really earn it's keep. If they discard land most of the time our spells are so cheap we can't take advantage of it. When you get 2/2's you typically aren't getting enough to significantly impact a game. The card advantage is all you really want which can't really be controlled. I have a waste not deck specifically abusing waste not, it uses burning inquiry, dark deal, collective defiance to really abuse the discard triggers but I find it doesn't really get going until you have 2 wastes not's on the field working together. I don't think it's a good fit into 8 Rack but to each their own.
I don't run pithing needle or graffdigger's cage in my sideboard but I'd consider it. Control gives me problems which both these SB cards would help against.
epochrasite never tried it, never considered it, I have no opinion. Let us know how it works.