New results to report on the 80-card experiment, will be posted on the Discord as well:
"After more sample hands, it definitely feels like the quality of my openers has been compromised, and it has to do with the reduced chances of drawing effects like Path, Hussar, and Teferi, Time Raveler. The last piece might be fixable, since I was running a 4-1 split of Detention Sphere and it which can cleanly be swapped to a 3-2, but it looks like it is far more likely that 4-ofs are hiding in the bottom 60 cards of the deck now, which probably makes sense because of the new total number of permutations, which has increased dramatically. The difference between games where Court Hussar and Path show up and the ones where they don't is a significant drop in consistency. As a consequence, there appears to be a need to overshoot on effects that are unique, and so I am currently stuck on data until I can see how the extra card Yorion represents will affect game 1 wins in a live tournament.
On Thin Ice, sub-optimal as it is, was intended to be a two-of to resolve this (specifically coming at the expense of Crucible of Worlds and Settle the Wreckage, because singletons are almost entirely unreliable now), but I am no longer certain that addresses the main issue sufficiently. As an aside on Enchantment hate, in my experience, cards like Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse are horrible for Jund against value creatures, but they are often forced to keep them in games 2 and 3 for lack of better options, and that is my point about sideboarding. I am always wary of giving opponents value unless it would lead to losses NOT to. On the Crucible front, Yorion, Sky Nomad can now blink Sun Titan to simulate that effect if I need it. This behaves totally differently and occurs much later as a synergy, but does recur manabase disruption reliably, where the chances of Crucible not showing up at all are extremely high.
In a related point, while Winds of Abandon has been a fine card, as a 2-drop sorcery it does not slot nearly as easily into and around the curve. An effect that mimics this quality of Path to Exile is essential because it is able to catch up on lost Tempo in as many situations as possible, keeping focus on ideal sequencing, and is easily hidden by representing a simple end-step fetch. I am beginning to wonder if the Arcum's Astrolabe version might be able to support Dispatch, but there will be a lot to unpack before I get there."
will be continuing tests. So far I'm liking results of the one-of Marit Lage. My build is used to casting spreading seas turn 2 as well, so I sometimes cast marit really early. It depends on the situation of course, if my opponent for example is Infect and they have a creature out, I would be casting a blocker or removal. I consider this thing as the last knife in my pocket - that the opponent usually does not expect - in a long fight. Can easily remove it anyway if it causes game losses, when I get to test with more decks once this lockdown ends.
now moving on to the more pressing problem is the dilution of removal.. On Thin Ice was tested and used by Fincown / Marinjouk for awhile. However, the final build of his deck didn't have it, so I guess it must not have been optimal. Well, now that we're 80 card.. the idea could be revisited and tested.
On dispatch. I'm an affinity player for more than 5 years, both Legacy and Modern. Sadly, this thing is impossible for us. Affinity needs at least 40-45 artifact to reliably turn on metalcraft in a 60 card deck. Even if we go 4 astrolabe 4 Mortarpod 4 pilgrim 3 Skull and even if we count sfm as an "artifact" because she can fetch one... that's still just 20 or less artifacts in an 80 card deck, far too few for metalcraft.
It still seems like overkill to me, but all right. Good luck with your testing, then.
As for Dispatch, I am fully aware of the of the card's obvious weaknesses, but something has to be attempted at this point. It fulfills the requirement of delaying lethal creatures on turns 1/2/3, potentially allowing the one extra turn until Wrath of God comes online, and is less than completely embarrassing in the lategame so I am willing to test it. The problem is that all the one-mana answers have massive drawbacks when compared to Path to Exile, and yet I find myself in a position of needing more of them.
The only other analogues I can think of require even more concessions, and have a far worse fail-case. Blazing Hope and Reciprocate are too likely to be irrelevant until it is too late, Gaze of Justice and Swallow Whole do literally nothing without creatures plural, and Isolate seems far too narrow to be maindeckable. I suppose being able to cleanly hit an Amulet of Vigor, an Expedition Map, a Hardened Scales or a Birds of Paradise on top of more aggressive 1-mana plays might give a little more credit to the last option, but I honestly doubt these will come up more often than wanting to delay anything from a Celestial Colonnade to a Gurmag Angler to a Primeval Titan for just one more turn.
Maybe I have to just bite the bullet, give up on removal entirely, and play Niveous Wisps. If no removal is going to be reliable, Wisps will at least be able to draw a card by targeting a Wall of Omens (on their end-step, if need be).
Very good suggestion. Oust is sorcery-speed only, poor against ETB creatures, and can never deal with threats permanently given that we are trying to drag out the game, but on the positive side it can interact with Indestructible or Regenerating creatures, has a drawback that I would tend to ignore almost completely, plus sandbagging opposing draw steps and providing incidental lifegain when used to reset our own value Creatures could give enough versatility to be worth it. I think it definitely competes with On Thin Ice at minimum.
Nice find, keep thinking on those lines if you can!
thanks. I think Oust has positive interactions with other cards already present in our deck.
combined with a ghost quarter, it turns quarter into a strip mine if the opponent don't want to lose their creature.
it also comboes with path to exile. because if we oust something first, then path a creature.. they have to think twice about searching a land, because that would make them lose the creature we ousted.
Goodluck with your testing as well. And I'm hoping Yorion does not get banned, there are some ban-happy people in other forums already complaining about it.
I think the Companion mechanic is worth being banned entirely for the damage it causes the game as a whole, but I strongly doubt Yorion, Sky Nomad will be banned before Lurrus of the Dream-Den does. The synergy with Field of Ruin, Ghost Quarter, and Path to Exile is real for Oust as well, thanks for mentioning it, and here follows my discussion of one last contender from the Discord:
"I tested out Condemn for a time, but it is horrible against anything with a tap ability, and nothing feels worse than waiting for Dark Confidant, Tireless Tracker, or Inkmoth Nexus to reach the red zone before being able to do anything about it. It is fantastic against Death's Shadow, though, so there is that."
In the 80-card build, the lower relative density of Court Hussar is an issue that was the subject of another discussion, and I weighed in with my experiences there as well:
"When it comes to the 3-drops, the best options in Colourless are Skyscanner, Skittering Surveyor, and the new Farfinder, likely in that order. They all have downsides, though, since Skyscanner can't guarantee land drops and the other two don't fly.
The other options at 3 CMC in White that I would be willing to entertain are Ranger-Captain of Eos (if Kami of False hope was already in the main), Militia Bugler, Vizier of Deferment, Vesperlark, and Trusty Packbeast (or the strictly worse for us Treasure Hunter), roughly in that order. All of these are inconsistent and also require new deckbuilding concessions. With the Kami, the presence of Mistveil Plains to recycle it in response to an ETB trigger probably makes Ranger-Captain the least odious of these sub-par role-players.
As a proxy for Court Hussar, though, Sea Gate Oracle takes the cake. However, the downgrade in power from 3 to 2 cards is significant, so if you are willing to look into splashable Blue creatures I could then see Cloudkin Seer being a slightly better body than Skyscanner, and Mulldrifter would be able to keep both cards (without the body), and then become much better in the lategame.
Ultimately, even Treasure Mage might be viable in some weird scenario where there were extra six-drop value targets available. I suppose if someone ran a full set of Teferi, Time Raveler and a few extra Lavinia, Azorius Renegade it might just be possible to get away with assembling the Knowledge Pool lock semi-reliably in an 80-card list, but I would be quite confident taht the card does too little on its own to justify such a warping of the maindeck.
As for the other targets, almost all of these will just be throwing gasoline on a fire that will already be burning well by the time six mana is reached, but for the sake of completeness I will list the best of the 6-drop artifacts here: Planar Bridge's power is likely too expensive to matter, Duplicant has historically been excellent on ETB, Staff of Nin has immediate utility with a personal Howling Mine attached, and the same can be said for The Immortal Sun, which fits perfectly into the deck if the singleton Teferi leaves and has fantastic bonus synergies with Batterskull, but these are also offered by a card that can sometimes cost less than six in The Circle of Loyalty. The last option has Court Hussar to support it naturally, and would give extra layers of synergy to Yorion, Sky Nomad and Lavinia, Azorius Renegade while being a great mana sink. There would be a huge number of variables at play by this point, so I doubt any of these are viable, but there they are if anyone feels inclined to try them out."
yeah, Lurrus would be ban first before Yorion. That is at least a relief to know.
Condemn is only good when GDS is king a few years ago. It's amazing against that deck. However, there are plenty dangerous creatures in modern that don't want to attack like for example.. Devoted Devastation decks are often present in decent numbers on tournaments here in my country.
Have been using Seagate instead of Hussar for awhile now. I know it's blasphemy not to use Court Hussar, but I prefer a blocker being left behind when it get revived by emeria. It's just a personal thing I guess.. obviously the anticipate of hussar is better than sleight of hand effect of oracle. Now that we have 80 card, there is a possibility to use both to keep the card selection going.
They will likely drag their feet when it comes to banning, especially with everything going on. While I get what they were trying to do in terms of Standard, the deck building restrictions were not equally distributed across the board. Some are unplayable for the most part while others are just a free card that does something it was never designed to do, ie Lurrus. The fact that it is used in a deck like Burn in Modern despite its mana hurdles reflects this as its being integrated into builds, because why not? It’s a free card when they’re out of gas that reloads them. Yorion, though powerful, feels like it can only be run properly in certain styles of decks for it to be useful (such as ours or those needing etb triggers), but I’m obviously biased lol. Honestly, I also wish Wizards stopped allowing wish effects. What’s the point of making all these “untouchable zones” like sideboards and exile when we can now interact with them at will?
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My weekend match breakdown:
Matchups
Match 1-Grixis Delver (2-0)
The matchup was a Grixis delver/pyromancer with Lurrus included. The first match played out by the opponent putting a delver on the field turn 1 with turn 2 pyro to follow up. The delver failed to flip and I pathed the pyro before it started shenanigans. Turn three I had a pilgrims eye to block the delver and I started to build a board presence. I forced the opponent to overextend before sweeping the board once they emptied out their hand. I Yorioned the next turn to pick up my Mortarpods and astrolabes and they soon scooped it up.
There wasn’t much to board out here. I took out a sun Titan and a Mortarpod for two Celestial purges.
I kept a hand of three wraths, three lands, and a Stoneforge. The game was a breeze as I hit my land drops with out issue and cleaned up their board any time they had two or more creatures in play. By the time turn six rolled around their hand was empty and I was well ahead. I hit Emeria turn 8 and they scooped.
Match 2- Mardu pyromancer (2-0)
This was also a fairly straightforward matchup. The opponent came out swinging with two thoughtseizes, a young pyro and a seasoned pyro, in that order. They took away my stoneforge and my astrolabe but I drew into a wrath and batterskull naturally. I eventually wrathed them on turn five before throwing down a Batterskull the following turn. They drew a Reveler to reload but I drew another wrath. I attacked with the skull to gain life before wrathing. Thankfully I had enough basics as I closed in on emeria bc they played blood moon right after. I Yorioned my Skull and kept at it. They lost two turns later
Brought in some enchantment destruction and gy hate in sideboard
Opponent mulliganed to keep a Bad hand of two leyline of the voids. I had two dspheres in hand and the early game was laughable. I hit my land drops, built a board presence and dsphered their leylines once I felt comfortable.
Yorion was cast, drawing me cards and the next turn I Sun Titaned into a scoop.
Match 3- Amulet Titan (0-2)
I don’t remember much from the matchup tbh except it was extremely frustrating. I hit my land drops and had a Wall and Pilgrims Eye on the field on turn four while they had Azusa and Dryad. Got to turn five before they Titan and had a follow up Pact. Multiple fields, Valakut, and Vesuva fly onto the field and the next thing I know I’m overrun by zombies and Valakut triggers. I last one more turn before I’m zombie food and battered by Valakut.
I bring in Aven mindcensor, Lavina, and purges
Nothing mattered in this game. Everything happened so fast. On turn two they had two amulets. Then they just went off with combos. On Turn three I found myself facing Titan and a dryads and they kept putting an ungodly amount of land onto the field. By the time the turn was over they had spent at least 12 mana through various combos and had Valkut lined up. They machine gunned my Lavina and my face. I was dead the next turn.
Match 4- Dredge (2-1)
By far my favorite match and my best played. Game one was a doozy. I hit my land drops and had a Wall up to block.
Turn three they do dredge stuff and have an ox, two bloodghasts, and an amalgam by the end of turn. Turn four I wipe the board but they reloaded immediately on their turn. They dump three chills into the yard as well and by turn five I’m facing the exact same board, low life, and have no chance. Brutal.
I side in my clerics and purges
I Mull to five for gy hate, but no dice. I’m frustrated but I have three lands, a path, and a mystic. Turn 2 I drop my mystic and grab a batterskull. Turn 3 I bring in my skull and it helps me gain back some life. I also draw another mystic and by Turn four I now have two skulls to stabilize me.
Meanwhile, my opponent is dredging the hell out of his deck to the point where he’s running dangerously low. Turn four, He has ox, two bloodghasts, three narcos and three amalgams. I wipe the Board on turn 5 after I swing in to gain more life but I’ve missed a land drop. My opponent Reloads next turn, including another ox.
I Miss another land drop but use path and drop in a pilgrims eye to save me and keep me at 10 life when my opponent swings in with the team.
Yorion comes in on turn 6 to bring back weapons and draw cards off astrolabe. Opponent is down to the last six cards and has to be careful dredging.
Opponent literally finds a conflagrate as his last card in his deck and just misses lethal before attacking into my lifelink skulls, winning me game. Nuts
Game three is a Mull to 4 for opponent but they had ox by turn three regardless. Fortunately for me, I had Mystic already on board. I Path the ox and batterskull on my turn to help stabilize. They drop an Imp to kill my skull on turn four. But on turn 5, Yorion to rescue, reviving the skull and getting another one off my mystic. On turn six, they are dangerously low on time and in desperation mode. They Conflagrate to kill my batterskull and mystic before throwing in an ox, creeping chilling me, and bringing back two ghasts, and three amalgams. I’m dead next turn if I don’t get my life total back up. I draw a wall and now have to decide whether I throw in two chump blockers to buy me enough time for the clock to run or equip Yorion. I decide to equip Batterskull to Yorion and he smashed through in the air for 8, gaining me back much needed life and setting itself up to block.
Opp is out of out of time and sends in the team but life link Yorion soaks it up for the win
Match 5- Humans (2-0)
After the craziness of the last match I was hoping for a less strenuous way to end my run. This was the perfect way to cruise to the finish line. Very little to discuss. Game one, they Overextended early on into two wraths on turns four and six respectively. By turn seven I was a land away from Emeria with a Batterskull on board, they hand three lands and a vial under my dsphere, and they scooped.
I boarded in pithing needles and a disenchant
Pretty lame. I have a feeling they kept an embarrassing hand. Turn one they throw out an Aether vial which I immediately shut down with my pithing needle. They scooped.
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Three small pieces for advice with sideboarding, I hope they can help you in the future.
1) Against your Mardu Pyromancer opponent in round 2, I would not bring in enchantment destruction. It is too likely to stay dead in hand if they have no targets, which means it gets taken by every single piece of hand disruption they care to leave in. Celestial Purge covers the dangerous threats while hedging against infrequent awkward Blood Moon or Leyline of the Void situations, and Detention Sphere covers any oddball inclusions after that. This is a midrange battle where you just want every spell to help grind against every one of their resources, so Aura of Silence and Disenchant are poor.
2) The very next round, I would advise the exact opposite against Amulet, because even if they might have a lot of attrition, this is a Combo versus Control matchup. You can afford your cards to be dead sometimes because the situations where they don't have a target will likely be going a little better for you in allowing you to reach the later game where we begin to be advantaged naturally. Amulet of Vigor is dangerous, as is sometimes Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, so Aura of Silence and Disenchant are important to bring in. To be honest though, this pairing takes a long, long time to get accustomed to on both sides, so experience will count for a ton. I would say the mistakes are far more forgiving on their side, though, and I think my primer on the homepage conveys the consequentially embattled mindset this entails fairly well. I was wondering, however, if a third Ghost Quarter might be warranted in the 80-card build.
Finally, were you just hedging against Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver with the Celestial Purge here? If so, I probably wouldn't consider that enough reason to bring them in. In my experience, Ashiok is far more irrelevant than he might appear. He is irritating, but I have found that unless he is messing with a crucial Field of Ruin he can be played around with the maindeck successfully and attacked down easily by random creatures, if required.
3) In the last match against Humans, I would simply not bring in Disenchant. Similar to the Pyromancer situation, you want your cards to affect the board, but this is even more important against Aggro/Fish style strategies so I don't like dead cards. For non-creature interaction I start by bringing in a single Pithing Needle for Aether Vial if I won game one, maybe two to be safe if I am down a game, but never more than that even when I played a full four copies in my sideboard back in the heyday of Affinity. It is just too likely that the second copy will be dead when any other maindeck spell will stabilize. Against Humans, I am more looking to get my copies of Celestial Purge in, because Kitesail Freebooter and Mantis Rider are very strong targets for them, and these cards are one of their few ways to steal wins from our otherwise overpowering natural advantages.
Let me know if there was anything else you wanted to discuss!
ageed on what Gerant said about pyromancer. I'm a Mardu Pyromancer player for almost a year, on the last days of Faithless Looting in Modern. There is no need to bring in disenchant for Blood Moon. You can win already with board wipes and celestial purge. The moon itself can be removed by purge if you feel the need to get rid of it. I don't bring in leyline against emeria, instead I bring in fry, dreadbore, and other available removal from the side.
Thanks for the read @Fluff! It was certainly interesting. The rise of Aggro and combo is certainly going to push our strategy and force us to adapt accordingly. It seems like midrange and control are starting to creep back in week 2 thanks to Yorion and shows that our current build may be correct. I consider us a midrange Control deck and it’s interesting to see the lack of “true control” in the metagame. Is UW control really fallen that far? Also, I’m loving that Tron has struggled mightily during this time!:)
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Have Kaheera, Yorion, and Obosh all on my scg cart. Noticed that both Kaheera and Obosh have both dropped in price, while Yorion increased. I guess Yorion must be doing something strong.
I assume that the majority of people have now moved onto the Discord (the link for which can be found in Chanty9Y's post in the middle of page 74 of this thread) to discuss the new companion-based Yorion version, but since the rule change the power offered by the 80-card adaptation has been muted to the point the other builds are back in the running. If you are looking for a 60-card mono-white build, I could recommend the following:
This is a direct modification of the W/u version that I champion (the current build of which is found on the front page of this thread). The advice that I give in the primer for most matchups will hold roughly true with it, but I have taken the liberty of cutting a land to give you more action in order to compensate for the loss of Court Hussar, which the mono-white versions have no clean replacement for. The copies of Skyscanner are there to fill that all-important 3-drop slot on the curve, and should you find yourself doing better against Prowess and Aggro than anticipated, you should immediately increase the number of these at the expense of Lone Missionary.
I added two of the Kor Cleric to the maindeck to fit your described metagame, and other modifications include Cavalier of Dawn as additional lategame power that yields a self-contained combo for a stream of golems with an active Emeria, a fourth copy of Field of Ruin in your less demanding manabase against big mana decks, and two copies of Generous Gift as extra ways to smooth out the lategame with a poor Detention Sphere impression that can Vindicate any problem permanents, including lands, in a pinch. They also accelerate the mana-denial lock and jump-start recursion loops when Emeria is active. If these are too much of a liability against aggro, I recommend the classic Oblivion Ring, which will grant extra synergy to the Cavalier. It has been less thoroughly tested than all the other slots apart from Generous Gift, but the Cavalier's restrictive WWW requirement is at home in this deck better than anywhere else, and I would be very keen to hear your impressions of it. If it does not suit you, Geist-honored Monk is an excellent stabilizing play that can also be recurred for immediate board presence or quick pressure. It was my standby for many years, even in the W/u version.
Apart from this, the Wraths are all mono-white instead of including Supreme Verdict, which is arguably the next most important concession to straight white mana after the loss of Hussar and D-Sphere, but overall things should give you a good impression of what the deck is supposed to do if you choose to commit to the attrition plan that I advocate. One last tweak that you might like to make is to replace some Wraths and/or Settle the Wreckage with a few copies of Hour of Revelation, as this is a very powerful catch-all tool available to the mono-white manabase in the right environments. The Planar Cleansing effect is extremely well adapted to the deck's main strategy, and can be completely unfair at the cheapened rate, but the downside of making the draws more unwieldy is a very real cost when the four-mana slot is so important, and there are also decks which can ignore it entirely.
For a sideboard, I would recommend the following initial cards sight unseen:
The fourth Missionary, Cleric, and Mindcensor may each be warranted in different number configurations, as could the third Ghost Quarter, and you may wish to heavily consider Specter's Shroud as an early aggressive plan with your extra cheap attacking plays in a supplemental angle for Stoneforge Mystic to pressure Control/Prison/Combo opponents, but I will leave these strategic concerns up to your discretion.
I hope that this will be a reasonable starting place for you, and if you have any other questions I would be happy to give you advice on which cards might be candidates to swap out for any particularly valuable effects, or counsel to guide general play patterns if you wish it.
New results to report on the 80-card experiment, will be posted on the Discord as well:
"After more sample hands, it definitely feels like the quality of my openers has been compromised, and it has to do with the reduced chances of drawing effects like Path, Hussar, and Teferi, Time Raveler. The last piece might be fixable, since I was running a 4-1 split of Detention Sphere and it which can cleanly be swapped to a 3-2, but it looks like it is far more likely that 4-ofs are hiding in the bottom 60 cards of the deck now, which probably makes sense because of the new total number of permutations, which has increased dramatically. The difference between games where Court Hussar and Path show up and the ones where they don't is a significant drop in consistency. As a consequence, there appears to be a need to overshoot on effects that are unique, and so I am currently stuck on data until I can see how the extra card Yorion represents will affect game 1 wins in a live tournament.
On Thin Ice, sub-optimal as it is, was intended to be a two-of to resolve this (specifically coming at the expense of Crucible of Worlds and Settle the Wreckage, because singletons are almost entirely unreliable now), but I am no longer certain that addresses the main issue sufficiently. As an aside on Enchantment hate, in my experience, cards like Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse are horrible for Jund against value creatures, but they are often forced to keep them in games 2 and 3 for lack of better options, and that is my point about sideboarding. I am always wary of giving opponents value unless it would lead to losses NOT to. On the Crucible front, Yorion, Sky Nomad can now blink Sun Titan to simulate that effect if I need it. This behaves totally differently and occurs much later as a synergy, but does recur manabase disruption reliably, where the chances of Crucible not showing up at all are extremely high.
In a related point, while Winds of Abandon has been a fine card, as a 2-drop sorcery it does not slot nearly as easily into and around the curve. An effect that mimics this quality of Path to Exile is essential because it is able to catch up on lost Tempo in as many situations as possible, keeping focus on ideal sequencing, and is easily hidden by representing a simple end-step fetch. I am beginning to wonder if the Arcum's Astrolabe version might be able to support Dispatch, but there will be a lot to unpack before I get there."
will be continuing tests. So far I'm liking results of the one-of Marit Lage. My build is used to casting spreading seas turn 2 as well, so I sometimes cast marit really early. It depends on the situation of course, if my opponent for example is Infect and they have a creature out, I would be casting a blocker or removal. I consider this thing as the last knife in my pocket - that the opponent usually does not expect - in a long fight. Can easily remove it anyway if it causes game losses, when I get to test with more decks once this lockdown ends.
now moving on to the more pressing problem is the dilution of removal.. On Thin Ice was tested and used by Fincown / Marinjouk for awhile. However, the final build of his deck didn't have it, so I guess it must not have been optimal. Well, now that we're 80 card.. the idea could be revisited and tested.
On dispatch. I'm an affinity player for more than 5 years, both Legacy and Modern. Sadly, this thing is impossible for us. Affinity needs at least 40-45 artifact to reliably turn on metalcraft in a 60 card deck. Even if we go 4 astrolabe 4 Mortarpod 4 pilgrim 3 Skull and even if we count sfm as an "artifact" because she can fetch one... that's still just 20 or less artifacts in an 80 card deck, far too few for metalcraft.
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It still seems like overkill to me, but all right. Good luck with your testing, then.
As for Dispatch, I am fully aware of the of the card's obvious weaknesses, but something has to be attempted at this point. It fulfills the requirement of delaying lethal creatures on turns 1/2/3, potentially allowing the one extra turn until Wrath of God comes online, and is less than completely embarrassing in the lategame so I am willing to test it. The problem is that all the one-mana answers have massive drawbacks when compared to Path to Exile, and yet I find myself in a position of needing more of them.
The only other analogues I can think of require even more concessions, and have a far worse fail-case. Blazing Hope and Reciprocate are too likely to be irrelevant until it is too late, Gaze of Justice and Swallow Whole do literally nothing without creatures plural, and Isolate seems far too narrow to be maindeckable. I suppose being able to cleanly hit an Amulet of Vigor, an Expedition Map, a Hardened Scales or a Birds of Paradise on top of more aggressive 1-mana plays might give a little more credit to the last option, but I honestly doubt these will come up more often than wanting to delay anything from a Celestial Colonnade to a Gurmag Angler to a Primeval Titan for just one more turn.
Maybe I have to just bite the bullet, give up on removal entirely, and play Niveous Wisps. If no removal is going to be reliable, Wisps will at least be able to draw a card by targeting a Wall of Omens (on their end-step, if need be).
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Very good suggestion. Oust is sorcery-speed only, poor against ETB creatures, and can never deal with threats permanently given that we are trying to drag out the game, but on the positive side it can interact with Indestructible or Regenerating creatures, has a drawback that I would tend to ignore almost completely, plus sandbagging opposing draw steps and providing incidental lifegain when used to reset our own value Creatures could give enough versatility to be worth it. I think it definitely competes with On Thin Ice at minimum.
Nice find, keep thinking on those lines if you can!
combined with a ghost quarter, it turns quarter into a strip mine if the opponent don't want to lose their creature.
it also comboes with path to exile. because if we oust something first, then path a creature.. they have to think twice about searching a land, because that would make them lose the creature we ousted.
Goodluck with your testing as well. And I'm hoping Yorion does not get banned, there are some ban-happy people in other forums already complaining about it.
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I think the Companion mechanic is worth being banned entirely for the damage it causes the game as a whole, but I strongly doubt Yorion, Sky Nomad will be banned before Lurrus of the Dream-Den does. The synergy with Field of Ruin, Ghost Quarter, and Path to Exile is real for Oust as well, thanks for mentioning it, and here follows my discussion of one last contender from the Discord:
"I tested out Condemn for a time, but it is horrible against anything with a tap ability, and nothing feels worse than waiting for Dark Confidant, Tireless Tracker, or Inkmoth Nexus to reach the red zone before being able to do anything about it. It is fantastic against Death's Shadow, though, so there is that."
In the 80-card build, the lower relative density of Court Hussar is an issue that was the subject of another discussion, and I weighed in with my experiences there as well:
"When it comes to the 3-drops, the best options in Colourless are Skyscanner, Skittering Surveyor, and the new Farfinder, likely in that order. They all have downsides, though, since Skyscanner can't guarantee land drops and the other two don't fly.
The other options at 3 CMC in White that I would be willing to entertain are Ranger-Captain of Eos (if Kami of False hope was already in the main), Militia Bugler, Vizier of Deferment, Vesperlark, and Trusty Packbeast (or the strictly worse for us Treasure Hunter), roughly in that order. All of these are inconsistent and also require new deckbuilding concessions. With the Kami, the presence of Mistveil Plains to recycle it in response to an ETB trigger probably makes Ranger-Captain the least odious of these sub-par role-players.
As a proxy for Court Hussar, though, Sea Gate Oracle takes the cake. However, the downgrade in power from 3 to 2 cards is significant, so if you are willing to look into splashable Blue creatures I could then see Cloudkin Seer being a slightly better body than Skyscanner, and Mulldrifter would be able to keep both cards (without the body), and then become much better in the lategame.
Going well outside of the beaten path, now, If there were more targets, I might consider the Mage supercycle, obviously beginning with Trinket Mage given the presence of Arcum's Astrolabe already, then Tribute Mage which can get Mortarpod, and Trophy Mage to get Pilgrim's Eye or Crucible of Worlds if it was still in the deck.
Ultimately, even Treasure Mage might be viable in some weird scenario where there were extra six-drop value targets available. I suppose if someone ran a full set of Teferi, Time Raveler and a few extra Lavinia, Azorius Renegade it might just be possible to get away with assembling the Knowledge Pool lock semi-reliably in an 80-card list, but I would be quite confident taht the card does too little on its own to justify such a warping of the maindeck.
As for the other targets, almost all of these will just be throwing gasoline on a fire that will already be burning well by the time six mana is reached, but for the sake of completeness I will list the best of the 6-drop artifacts here: Planar Bridge's power is likely too expensive to matter, Duplicant has historically been excellent on ETB, Staff of Nin has immediate utility with a personal Howling Mine attached, and the same can be said for The Immortal Sun, which fits perfectly into the deck if the singleton Teferi leaves and has fantastic bonus synergies with Batterskull, but these are also offered by a card that can sometimes cost less than six in The Circle of Loyalty. The last option has Court Hussar to support it naturally, and would give extra layers of synergy to Yorion, Sky Nomad and Lavinia, Azorius Renegade while being a great mana sink. There would be a huge number of variables at play by this point, so I doubt any of these are viable, but there they are if anyone feels inclined to try them out."
Condemn is only good when GDS is king a few years ago. It's amazing against that deck. However, there are plenty dangerous creatures in modern that don't want to attack like for example.. Devoted Devastation decks are often present in decent numbers on tournaments here in my country.
Have been using Seagate instead of Hussar for awhile now. I know it's blasphemy not to use Court Hussar, but I prefer a blocker being left behind when it get revived by emeria. It's just a personal thing I guess.. obviously the anticipate of hussar is better than sleight of hand effect of oracle. Now that we have 80 card, there is a possibility to use both to keep the card selection going.
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UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
Matchups
Match 1-Grixis Delver (2-0)
The matchup was a Grixis delver/pyromancer with Lurrus included. The first match played out by the opponent putting a delver on the field turn 1 with turn 2 pyro to follow up. The delver failed to flip and I pathed the pyro before it started shenanigans. Turn three I had a pilgrims eye to block the delver and I started to build a board presence. I forced the opponent to overextend before sweeping the board once they emptied out their hand. I Yorioned the next turn to pick up my Mortarpods and astrolabes and they soon scooped it up.
There wasn’t much to board out here. I took out a sun Titan and a Mortarpod for two Celestial purges.
I kept a hand of three wraths, three lands, and a Stoneforge. The game was a breeze as I hit my land drops with out issue and cleaned up their board any time they had two or more creatures in play. By the time turn six rolled around their hand was empty and I was well ahead. I hit Emeria turn 8 and they scooped.
Match 2- Mardu pyromancer (2-0)
This was also a fairly straightforward matchup. The opponent came out swinging with two thoughtseizes, a young pyro and a seasoned pyro, in that order. They took away my stoneforge and my astrolabe but I drew into a wrath and batterskull naturally. I eventually wrathed them on turn five before throwing down a Batterskull the following turn. They drew a Reveler to reload but I drew another wrath. I attacked with the skull to gain life before wrathing. Thankfully I had enough basics as I closed in on emeria bc they played blood moon right after. I Yorioned my Skull and kept at it. They lost two turns later
Brought in some enchantment destruction and gy hate in sideboard
Opponent mulliganed to keep a Bad hand of two leyline of the voids. I had two dspheres in hand and the early game was laughable. I hit my land drops, built a board presence and dsphered their leylines once I felt comfortable.
Yorion was cast, drawing me cards and the next turn I Sun Titaned into a scoop.
Match 3- Amulet Titan (0-2)
I don’t remember much from the matchup tbh except it was extremely frustrating. I hit my land drops and had a Wall and Pilgrims Eye on the field on turn four while they had Azusa and Dryad. Got to turn five before they Titan and had a follow up Pact. Multiple fields, Valakut, and Vesuva fly onto the field and the next thing I know I’m overrun by zombies and Valakut triggers. I last one more turn before I’m zombie food and battered by Valakut.
I bring in Aven mindcensor, Lavina, and purges
Nothing mattered in this game. Everything happened so fast. On turn two they had two amulets. Then they just went off with combos. On Turn three I found myself facing Titan and a dryads and they kept putting an ungodly amount of land onto the field. By the time the turn was over they had spent at least 12 mana through various combos and had Valkut lined up. They machine gunned my Lavina and my face. I was dead the next turn.
Match 4- Dredge (2-1)
By far my favorite match and my best played. Game one was a doozy. I hit my land drops and had a Wall up to block.
Turn three they do dredge stuff and have an ox, two bloodghasts, and an amalgam by the end of turn. Turn four I wipe the board but they reloaded immediately on their turn. They dump three chills into the yard as well and by turn five I’m facing the exact same board, low life, and have no chance. Brutal.
I side in my clerics and purges
I Mull to five for gy hate, but no dice. I’m frustrated but I have three lands, a path, and a mystic. Turn 2 I drop my mystic and grab a batterskull. Turn 3 I bring in my skull and it helps me gain back some life. I also draw another mystic and by Turn four I now have two skulls to stabilize me.
Meanwhile, my opponent is dredging the hell out of his deck to the point where he’s running dangerously low. Turn four, He has ox, two bloodghasts, three narcos and three amalgams. I wipe the Board on turn 5 after I swing in to gain more life but I’ve missed a land drop. My opponent Reloads next turn, including another ox.
I Miss another land drop but use path and drop in a pilgrims eye to save me and keep me at 10 life when my opponent swings in with the team.
Yorion comes in on turn 6 to bring back weapons and draw cards off astrolabe. Opponent is down to the last six cards and has to be careful dredging.
Opponent literally finds a conflagrate as his last card in his deck and just misses lethal before attacking into my lifelink skulls, winning me game. Nuts
Game three is a Mull to 4 for opponent but they had ox by turn three regardless. Fortunately for me, I had Mystic already on board. I Path the ox and batterskull on my turn to help stabilize. They drop an Imp to kill my skull on turn four. But on turn 5, Yorion to rescue, reviving the skull and getting another one off my mystic. On turn six, they are dangerously low on time and in desperation mode. They Conflagrate to kill my batterskull and mystic before throwing in an ox, creeping chilling me, and bringing back two ghasts, and three amalgams. I’m dead next turn if I don’t get my life total back up. I draw a wall and now have to decide whether I throw in two chump blockers to buy me enough time for the clock to run or equip Yorion. I decide to equip Batterskull to Yorion and he smashed through in the air for 8, gaining me back much needed life and setting itself up to block.
Opp is out of out of time and sends in the team but life link Yorion soaks it up for the win
Match 5- Humans (2-0)
After the craziness of the last match I was hoping for a less strenuous way to end my run. This was the perfect way to cruise to the finish line. Very little to discuss. Game one, they Overextended early on into two wraths on turns four and six respectively. By turn seven I was a land away from Emeria with a Batterskull on board, they hand three lands and a vial under my dsphere, and they scooped.
I boarded in pithing needles and a disenchant
Pretty lame. I have a feeling they kept an embarrassing hand. Turn one they throw out an Aether vial which I immediately shut down with my pithing needle. They scooped.
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
Three small pieces for advice with sideboarding, I hope they can help you in the future.
1) Against your Mardu Pyromancer opponent in round 2, I would not bring in enchantment destruction. It is too likely to stay dead in hand if they have no targets, which means it gets taken by every single piece of hand disruption they care to leave in. Celestial Purge covers the dangerous threats while hedging against infrequent awkward Blood Moon or Leyline of the Void situations, and Detention Sphere covers any oddball inclusions after that. This is a midrange battle where you just want every spell to help grind against every one of their resources, so Aura of Silence and Disenchant are poor.
2) The very next round, I would advise the exact opposite against Amulet, because even if they might have a lot of attrition, this is a Combo versus Control matchup. You can afford your cards to be dead sometimes because the situations where they don't have a target will likely be going a little better for you in allowing you to reach the later game where we begin to be advantaged naturally. Amulet of Vigor is dangerous, as is sometimes Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, so Aura of Silence and Disenchant are important to bring in. To be honest though, this pairing takes a long, long time to get accustomed to on both sides, so experience will count for a ton. I would say the mistakes are far more forgiving on their side, though, and I think my primer on the homepage conveys the consequentially embattled mindset this entails fairly well. I was wondering, however, if a third Ghost Quarter might be warranted in the 80-card build.
Finally, were you just hedging against Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver with the Celestial Purge here? If so, I probably wouldn't consider that enough reason to bring them in. In my experience, Ashiok is far more irrelevant than he might appear. He is irritating, but I have found that unless he is messing with a crucial Field of Ruin he can be played around with the maindeck successfully and attacked down easily by random creatures, if required.
3) In the last match against Humans, I would simply not bring in Disenchant. Similar to the Pyromancer situation, you want your cards to affect the board, but this is even more important against Aggro/Fish style strategies so I don't like dead cards. For non-creature interaction I start by bringing in a single Pithing Needle for Aether Vial if I won game one, maybe two to be safe if I am down a game, but never more than that even when I played a full four copies in my sideboard back in the heyday of Affinity. It is just too likely that the second copy will be dead when any other maindeck spell will stabilize. Against Humans, I am more looking to get my copies of Celestial Purge in, because Kitesail Freebooter and Mantis Rider are very strong targets for them, and these cards are one of their few ways to steal wins from our otherwise overpowering natural advantages.
Let me know if there was anything else you wanted to discuss!
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BWOrzhov ControlBW
https://mtgmodernmetrics.wordpress.com/2020/05/05/modern-metagame-update-post-iko-week-2/
from the article:
Burn: 13.1% (58) ▼2.3%
Jund: 6.8% (30) ▼1.5%
Prowess: 5.9% (26) ▲1.2%
Humans: 5% (22) ▼0.5%
Devoted Devastation: 5% (22) ▲0.7%
Bant Snow Control: 4.7% (21) -0%
Temur Urza: 4.7% (21) ▲1.9%
Amulet Titan: 4.3% (19) ▲0.3%
Hardened Scales: 3.6% (16) ▲0.4
Ponza: 3.4% (15) ▲1%
Ad Nauseam: 2.9% (13) ▲0.5%
Eldrazi Tron: 2.3% (10) ▼0.1%
Grixis Delver: 2.3% (10) ▼1.3%
The Rock: 2.3% (10) ▼0.5%
Dredge: 2% (9) ▼1.6%
5C Niv: 1.8% (8) ▼0.2%
Neobrand: 1.8% (8) -0%
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you're welcome.
_________________
Have Kaheera, Yorion, and Obosh all on my scg cart. Noticed that both Kaheera and Obosh have both dropped in price, while Yorion increased. I guess Yorion must be doing something strong.
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MTGO MODERN META 04/18 - 05/19
1. Prowess: 9.7% (78)
2. Burn: 9.6% (77)
3. Jund: 8.1% (65)
4. Amulet Titan: 4.9% (39)
5. Devoted Devastation: 4.7% (38)
6. Ponza: 4.5% (36)
7. Bant Snow Control: 3.7% (30)
8. Temur Urza: 3.7% (30)
9. Humans: 3.5% (28)
10. Eldrazi Tron: 3.1% (25)
11. Hardened Scales: 2.9% (23)
12. Ad Nauseam: 2.6% (21)
13. Mono G Tron: 1.9% (15)
14. The Rock: 1.9% (15)
15. Bogles: 1.9% (15)
16. Grixis Delver: 1.6% (13)
17. 5C Niv: 1.6% (13)
18. Azorius Control: 1.6% (13)
19. 4C Uro Snow Control: 1.5% (12)
20. Neobrand: 1.4% (11)
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https://mtgmodernmetrics.wordpress.com/2020/05/25/post-iko-weeks-4-5-and-fixing-the-companion-crisis/
1. Prowess: 11.4% (106)
2. Burn: 8.6% (80)
3. Jund: 7.9% (73)
4. Amulet Titan: 4.6% (43)
5. Ponza: 4.6% (43)
6. Devoted Devastation: 4.4% (41)
7. Eldrazi Tron: 4% (37)
8. Temur Urza: 3.4% (32)
9. Bant Snow Control: 3.2% (30)
10. Humans: 3.1% (29)
11. Hardened Scales: 2.8% (26)
12. Ad Nauseam: 2.7% (25)
13. Bogles: 2.4% (22)
14. Mono G Tron: 2.3% (21)
15. The Rock: 1.7% (16)
16. Scapeshift: 1.7% (16)
17. 5C Niv: 1.6% (15)
18. Azorius Control: 1.6% (15)
19. Dredge: 1.5% (14)
20. Grixis Delver: 1.4% (13)
21. 4C Uro Snow Control: 1.4% (13)
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I assume that the majority of people have now moved onto the Discord (the link for which can be found in Chanty9Y's post in the middle of page 74 of this thread) to discuss the new companion-based Yorion version, but since the rule change the power offered by the 80-card adaptation has been muted to the point the other builds are back in the running. If you are looking for a 60-card mono-white build, I could recommend the following:
4 Field of Ruin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Mistveil Plains
14 Plains
4 Path to Exile
4 Wall of Omens
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mortarpod
2 Lone Missionary
4 Pilgrim's Eye
2 Skyscanner
2 Generous Gift
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Wrath of God
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Cavalier of Dawn
2 Batterskull
3 Sun Titan
This is a direct modification of the W/u version that I champion (the current build of which is found on the front page of this thread). The advice that I give in the primer for most matchups will hold roughly true with it, but I have taken the liberty of cutting a land to give you more action in order to compensate for the loss of Court Hussar, which the mono-white versions have no clean replacement for. The copies of Skyscanner are there to fill that all-important 3-drop slot on the curve, and should you find yourself doing better against Prowess and Aggro than anticipated, you should immediately increase the number of these at the expense of Lone Missionary.
I added two of the Kor Cleric to the maindeck to fit your described metagame, and other modifications include Cavalier of Dawn as additional lategame power that yields a self-contained combo for a stream of golems with an active Emeria, a fourth copy of Field of Ruin in your less demanding manabase against big mana decks, and two copies of Generous Gift as extra ways to smooth out the lategame with a poor Detention Sphere impression that can Vindicate any problem permanents, including lands, in a pinch. They also accelerate the mana-denial lock and jump-start recursion loops when Emeria is active. If these are too much of a liability against aggro, I recommend the classic Oblivion Ring, which will grant extra synergy to the Cavalier. It has been less thoroughly tested than all the other slots apart from Generous Gift, but the Cavalier's restrictive WWW requirement is at home in this deck better than anywhere else, and I would be very keen to hear your impressions of it. If it does not suit you, Geist-honored Monk is an excellent stabilizing play that can also be recurred for immediate board presence or quick pressure. It was my standby for many years, even in the W/u version.
Apart from this, the Wraths are all mono-white instead of including Supreme Verdict, which is arguably the next most important concession to straight white mana after the loss of Hussar and D-Sphere, but overall things should give you a good impression of what the deck is supposed to do if you choose to commit to the attrition plan that I advocate. One last tweak that you might like to make is to replace some Wraths and/or Settle the Wreckage with a few copies of Hour of Revelation, as this is a very powerful catch-all tool available to the mono-white manabase in the right environments. The Planar Cleansing effect is extremely well adapted to the deck's main strategy, and can be completely unfair at the cheapened rate, but the downside of making the draws more unwieldy is a very real cost when the four-mana slot is so important, and there are also decks which can ignore it entirely.
For a sideboard, I would recommend the following initial cards sight unseen:
2 Celestial Purge
1 Aura of Silence
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Lone Missionary
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
The fourth Missionary, Cleric, and Mindcensor may each be warranted in different number configurations, as could the third Ghost Quarter, and you may wish to heavily consider Specter's Shroud as an early aggressive plan with your extra cheap attacking plays in a supplemental angle for Stoneforge Mystic to pressure Control/Prison/Combo opponents, but I will leave these strategic concerns up to your discretion.
I hope that this will be a reasonable starting place for you, and if you have any other questions I would be happy to give you advice on which cards might be candidates to swap out for any particularly valuable effects, or counsel to guide general play patterns if you wish it.
Best of luck with everything!
-Stéphane