I love teferi and know he's obviously powerful, but I'm curious on your thoughts about Gideon of the trials as a 2 of in this list instead of Teferi or in combination. just wanna hear your thoughts but nahiri is my personal favorite. just love the flavour and want to make this work. also maybe anger of the gods instead of settle?
I love teferi and know he's obviously powerful, but I'm curious on your thoughts about Gideon of the trials as a 2 of in this list instead of Teferi or in combination. just wanna hear your thoughts but nahiri is my personal favorite. just love the flavour and want to make this work. also maybe anger of the gods instead of settle?
I'm a big fan of Gideon of the Trials and he works very well with Nahiri. However, Teferi does solve some issues for the classic Nahiri shell in that he creates some real card advantage where classic Nahiri could run out of cards before stabilizing, and Teferi can also get rid of cards like Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle and Ensnaring Bridge that would prevent you from winning with Emrakul. The problem with Anger of the Gods is that you need 18 red sources to cast it reliably, which makes the manabase difficult. Especially if you'd also want to play Gideon of the Trials, you just straight up won't be able to play Cryptic Command anymore unless you're willing to fetch like you're on Death Shadow.
If you want to see the deck in action, Jeff Hoogland actually played it a week ago. I also went 3-1 with it last weekend at an MKM trial losing to esper control then beating tron, storm and bant spirits.
Very insightful as always, really appreciate this forum.
yeah I do find that I have to fetch myself down very aggressively but I usually don't have to much of an issue with mana, i just really like Gideon in certain matchups for staving things off while also being able to apply pressure if need be. Teferi is just probably better and solves more problems, just wanted to slim the deck of +4 cmc spells I guess aswell as letting Gideon do work(however he is good against decks that we dont really have that much of an issue against anyway im realizing). also would you consider running some number if hiroglyphic illumination with serum vision? thanks brotha
I like Gideon of the Trials as he is both a wincon and an answer depending on what you need. However, Nahiri's biggest advantage is that she is a "universal wincon"; there aren't really any decks that can survive an Emrakul attack. This makes cards like Damping Sphere good against tron, where in conventional UWx you just don't provide a clock to make Damping Sphere relevant, I feel that if you play Nahiri, you should be *mostly* all in, and spend the rest of your 75 to make sure you can complete that plan. Gideon of the Trials is still good as "removal", but you don't really need the beatstick half of the card anymore.
I actually had 4x Hieroglyphic Illumination over Serum Visions for a while but, for the reasons above (commit the deck to completing the Nahiri plan) I deemed that scrying to find Nahiri was more relevant than the lategame card advantage of Hieroglyph. I did not test enough with Hieroglyph to make a definite statement about what is better (I love hieroglyph) but in theory Serum Visions fits the gameplan best.
Who here is still on Jeskai? I have to say that, although Jeskai always had the up vs UW, Esper's access to Esper Charm is really backbreaking. I've been musing on how to make the matchup better and I think the best way is to go under them
Maybe it's time to dust off Geist of Saint Traft again
im still on the Jeskai-Train and i love it. Uw is for me to slow at closing the Game and Esper has its Problems against Spirits and Humans. i Just like crushing those decks.
Esper might be a better choice against Phoenix, because its a critical Mass deck and Esper Charm is nice here with the discard, but in the big diversety that is modern, i just play what i like and what i play best.
A German Guy finished two regionals pretty good with jeskai. Finishing 6-0-1 and 7-1-0 is amazing and its back to back in the hightimes of Phoenix.
Who here is still on Jeskai? I have to say that, although Jeskai always had the up vs UW, Esper's access to Esper Charm is really backbreaking. I've been musing on how to make the matchup better and I think the best way is to go under them
Maybe it's time to dust off Geist of Saint Traft again
I've unsleeved my Jeskai cards and started playing UR Kiki for the past couple of weeks. I don't think that it's necessarily better (though right now it may very well be), but I have been on a terrible losing streak lately and I'm too emotionally attached to Jeskai to be able to step back and enjoy just playing even if i lose. I don't have that issue with Kiki, so here we are.
if just picked up a couple of Copys of the new Teferi and can say I'm excited to try him out. any thoughts on him guys? 3 manna removal+ stops opp from playing at instant speed. seems great am I missing something?
if just picked up a couple of Copys of the new Teferi and can say I'm excited to try him out. any thoughts on him guys? 3 manna removal+ stops opp from playing at instant speed. seems great am I missing something?
I don't think that the format is conducive to the card being good, at least in the mainboard, right now.
Little Tef is a game ender in the mirror, and UWx is popular enough that I could see him in the side, but not mainboard. There might be something to do with the Knowledge Pool lock he provides, but I'm still searching for a shell that makes that worthwhile
Honestly, if you want a legit reason to play Jeskai right now over UW or Esper, try out Nahiri again! I keep being impressed whenever I bring her to FNM (but of course don't have enough data to make any real viability claims).
My problem is that it still seems really slow against UR Phoenix,, and I have that and dredge showing up to the local shop. I did let someone borrow Jeskai Nahiri from me several weeks ago and stomped everything, but that tourney was basically a ton of midrange and 1 red aggro deck. I mean it's good enough, but I'm still terrified that I'll end up matched against Dredge or Phoenix decks.
I think that unless you go for mainboard gravehate, dredge will always be an awful matchup for UWx, and jeskai is the worst at running mainboard gravehate compared to UW and Esper. You could adapt the manabase to run Anger of the Gods and you might stand a chance through Helix and Nahiri's exile, but the big problem is always Conflagrate.
As for Phoenix, I think UWx in general handles the matchup quite well. Their explosive Godhands are obviously tough but rare, generally when Phoenix is a tad slower we can handle and outgrind them. Postboard with surgicals and Celestial Purge I actually think we are favoured. But yeah there is a reason phoenix is the best deck in the format.
I totally relate, pal. I LOVE Jeskai for potentially being the fastest out of the three, and Esper can be pretty fun on its own way with Esper Charm, the combination of Path and Push, and even the latest build combining Nihil Spellbombs, Extirpates and Kaya, Orzhov Usurper to hate heavily on the opponents’ GY while building up to a devastating Kaya ult... but Azorius just looks to me like a huge pile of durdle that can’t even kill the opponent without glacier-slow stuff like Colonnades, Gideons and JTMS’ ult <.<
Basically exactly what I was talking about with my comments above; why play these awful mainboard relics when I could play Esper with Nihil Spellbomb? Narset is the real deal though, and secretly semi-gravehate by banning Faithless Looting.
I will admit, I do wonder why he's gone the way of playing Relic instead of just playing Anger and messing with the manabase a bit.
Anger of the Gods is actually very heavy on a Jeskai manabase. In general, a conventional Jeskai manabase has 13-14 red sources whilst Anger of the Gods requires 18-19 red sources to consistently be cast on turn 3. You need to cram in 4-5 additional red sources somehow, which for starters means running no Field of Ruin. The price of playing 1-2 Anger is pretty damn steep.
Win, from my experience. It isn't a very common deck so this comes from maybe ~10 matches vs proc since the unbanning of JtMS, but I can't remember losing a match.
The lifegain is insignificant as UWx is fine winning by decking them, and even though martyr proc's creatures recur they are too small to pose a significant threat. By the time they can Forecast Proclamation, Jeskai is doing much more powerful things; we mostly just need to path Serra Ascendant and we're golden. Emeria is the scariest card martyr proc has but can be played around by sandbagging a field of ruin.
A mistake I've seen almost every single martyr proc player make is thinking theyre still in the game when they should scoop and go to sideboard. I've seen people forecast Proc 10 turns in a row gaining infinite life thinking theyre advancing their gameplan whilst I'm sitting there ticking up planeswalkers until my hand is so Godlike there's no Modern legal card that can beat me. Then they eventually deck or scoop and have no chance to complete game 2 before time.
I think proc needs to be the aggro vs UWx and have some actual threats that UWx can't just ignore; recurring one drops does not cut it versus Jace the Mind Sculptor.
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I'm a big fan of Gideon of the Trials and he works very well with Nahiri. However, Teferi does solve some issues for the classic Nahiri shell in that he creates some real card advantage where classic Nahiri could run out of cards before stabilizing, and Teferi can also get rid of cards like Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle and Ensnaring Bridge that would prevent you from winning with Emrakul. The problem with Anger of the Gods is that you need 18 red sources to cast it reliably, which makes the manabase difficult. Especially if you'd also want to play Gideon of the Trials, you just straight up won't be able to play Cryptic Command anymore unless you're willing to fetch like you're on Death Shadow.
If you want to see the deck in action, Jeff Hoogland actually played it a week ago. I also went 3-1 with it last weekend at an MKM trial losing to esper control then beating tron, storm and bant spirits.
yeah I do find that I have to fetch myself down very aggressively but I usually don't have to much of an issue with mana, i just really like Gideon in certain matchups for staving things off while also being able to apply pressure if need be. Teferi is just probably better and solves more problems, just wanted to slim the deck of +4 cmc spells I guess aswell as letting Gideon do work(however he is good against decks that we dont really have that much of an issue against anyway im realizing). also would you consider running some number if hiroglyphic illumination with serum vision? thanks brotha
I like Gideon of the Trials as he is both a wincon and an answer depending on what you need. However, Nahiri's biggest advantage is that she is a "universal wincon"; there aren't really any decks that can survive an Emrakul attack. This makes cards like Damping Sphere good against tron, where in conventional UWx you just don't provide a clock to make Damping Sphere relevant, I feel that if you play Nahiri, you should be *mostly* all in, and spend the rest of your 75 to make sure you can complete that plan. Gideon of the Trials is still good as "removal", but you don't really need the beatstick half of the card anymore.
I actually had 4x Hieroglyphic Illumination over Serum Visions for a while but, for the reasons above (commit the deck to completing the Nahiri plan) I deemed that scrying to find Nahiri was more relevant than the lategame card advantage of Hieroglyph. I did not test enough with Hieroglyph to make a definite statement about what is better (I love hieroglyph) but in theory Serum Visions fits the gameplan best.
Maybe it's time to dust off Geist of Saint Traft again
Esper might be a better choice against Phoenix, because its a critical Mass deck and Esper Charm is nice here with the discard, but in the big diversety that is modern, i just play what i like and what i play best.
A German Guy finished two regionals pretty good with jeskai. Finishing 6-0-1 and 7-1-0 is amazing and its back to back in the hightimes of Phoenix.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I've unsleeved my Jeskai cards and started playing UR Kiki for the past couple of weeks. I don't think that it's necessarily better (though right now it may very well be), but I have been on a terrible losing streak lately and I'm too emotionally attached to Jeskai to be able to step back and enjoy just playing even if i lose. I don't have that issue with Kiki, so here we are.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
I don't think that the format is conducive to the card being good, at least in the mainboard, right now.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
Honestly, if you want a legit reason to play Jeskai right now over UW or Esper, try out Nahiri again! I keep being impressed whenever I bring her to FNM (but of course don't have enough data to make any real viability claims).
As for Phoenix, I think UWx in general handles the matchup quite well. Their explosive Godhands are obviously tough but rare, generally when Phoenix is a tad slower we can handle and outgrind them. Postboard with surgicals and Celestial Purge I actually think we are favoured. But yeah there is a reason phoenix is the best deck in the format.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
Basically exactly what I was talking about with my comments above; why play these awful mainboard relics when I could play Esper with Nihil Spellbomb? Narset is the real deal though, and secretly semi-gravehate by banning Faithless Looting.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
Anger of the Gods is actually very heavy on a Jeskai manabase. In general, a conventional Jeskai manabase has 13-14 red sources whilst Anger of the Gods requires 18-19 red sources to consistently be cast on turn 3. You need to cram in 4-5 additional red sources somehow, which for starters means running no Field of Ruin. The price of playing 1-2 Anger is pretty damn steep.
The lifegain is insignificant as UWx is fine winning by decking them, and even though martyr proc's creatures recur they are too small to pose a significant threat. By the time they can Forecast Proclamation, Jeskai is doing much more powerful things; we mostly just need to path Serra Ascendant and we're golden. Emeria is the scariest card martyr proc has but can be played around by sandbagging a field of ruin.
A mistake I've seen almost every single martyr proc player make is thinking theyre still in the game when they should scoop and go to sideboard. I've seen people forecast Proc 10 turns in a row gaining infinite life thinking theyre advancing their gameplan whilst I'm sitting there ticking up planeswalkers until my hand is so Godlike there's no Modern legal card that can beat me. Then they eventually deck or scoop and have no chance to complete game 2 before time.
I think proc needs to be the aggro vs UWx and have some actual threats that UWx can't just ignore; recurring one drops does not cut it versus Jace the Mind Sculptor.