I was of the impression that that was the goal of spliting the jeskai harbinger and jeskai control theads but then they deleated the old thread without creating a new one leaving those who don't like nahiri or jeskai midrange without a thread to discuss their deck.
Imo if there is enough interest someone should go into the thread archive, copy the old primer, update the text a bit and paste it into developing / developing competetive (dunno if you can create straight into developing competetive or if it has to be moved there)
This thread is so counter-productive. Can the regulars do us all a favor and flag all of the posts that are suggesting moving away from the Nahiri build and/or Kiki/flash non Nahiri decks?
The mods made it VERY CLEAR that this is a thread to talk about the best builds of Nahiri Jeskai not spend page after page listing alternate decks and trying to call in to question Nahiri's strength. It's very close to driving me (and I'm sure others) completely away from this thread.
This thread is so counter-productive. Can the regulars do us all a favor and flag all of the posts that are suggesting moving away from the Nahiri build and/or Kiki/flash non Nahiri decks?
The mods made it VERY CLEAR that this is a thread to talk about the best builds of Nahiri Jeskai not spend page after page listing alternate decks and trying to call in to question Nahiri's strength. It's very close to driving me (and I'm sure others) completely away from this thread.
The mods also said non-nahiri related posts and deck lists would be respected.
I don't think anyone is saying that Nahiri lists are inferior or trying to call into question Nahiri's strengths.
If we want some on-topic discussion, I'd welcome some thoughts on this question from a page ago. I know it's not the most high-level question, but it's also not discussing a Jeskai Harbinger deck with no Harbinger.
I still don't have a great sense of sideboarding with this deck. Is it normal to be swapping 4-6 [or even more for Infect/etc.] cards? On paper, my plan is often to cut counters (Remand in particular, but others vs. Cavern of Souls) and [possibly] Ancestral Vision vs. aggro, and cut sweepers vs. midrange/control where Timely / Path do a sufficient job, and bring in basically everything more relevant from the sideboard than what I've cut -- basically, transforming the deck from 50% board control and 50% stack control to 75/25 in the appropriate direction. Is this a normal way of approaching it, or am I way off base?
Maybe the short way of saying it is: Does this deck want to sideboard a larger number of cards per matchup than other decks to try to draw into the 'right half' of the deck, or is it better to stick closer to the 'default' 60?
If we want some on-topic discussion, I'd welcome some thoughts on this question from a page ago. I know it's not the most high-level question, but it's also not discussing a Jeskai Harbinger deck with no Harbinger.
I still don't have a great sense of sideboarding with this deck. Is it normal to be swapping 4-6 [or even more for Infect/etc.] cards? On paper, my plan is often to cut counters (Remand in particular, but others vs. Cavern of Souls) and [possibly] Ancestral Vision vs. aggro, and cut sweepers vs. midrange/control where Timely / Path do a sufficient job, and bring in basically everything more relevant from the sideboard than what I've cut -- basically, transforming the deck from 50% board control and 50% stack control to 75/25 in the appropriate direction. Is this a normal way of approaching it, or am I way off base?
It depends on your build and your sideboard.
Infect - I typically take out remand and replace them with hard counters in my board (dispel, negate, etc.). I also bring in Staticaster.
Burn - I also take out remands in favor of hard counters/life gain. If I need extra room I find I can cut 1 or 2 paths depending on their build.
Suicide Zoo - I cut helix and bring in board wipes. If I need extra room I will occasionally cut remands.
Overall though I think your big picture analysis is correct.
This thread is so counter-productive. Can the regulars do us all a favor and flag all of the posts that are suggesting moving away from the Nahiri build and/or Kiki/flash non Nahiri decks?
The mods made it VERY CLEAR that this is a thread to talk about the best builds of Nahiri Jeskai not spend page after page listing alternate decks and trying to call in to question Nahiri's strength. It's very close to driving me (and I'm sure others) completely away from this thread.
^^This. I'm wasting a lot of time sifting through post after post praying for a nugget of useful information. Instead I get almost nothing but Nahiri vs. non-Nahiri. It's like the equivalent of "NA vs. EU" bs in Twitch chat. At least with Twitch, you know it's mostly satirical...
This thread is so counter-productive. Can the regulars do us all a favor and flag all of the posts that are suggesting moving away from the Nahiri build and/or Kiki/flash non Nahiri decks?
The mods made it VERY CLEAR that this is a thread to talk about the best builds of Nahiri Jeskai not spend page after page listing alternate decks and trying to call in to question Nahiri's strength. It's very close to driving me (and I'm sure others) completely away from this thread.
The mods also said non-nahiri related posts and deck lists would be respected. I don't think anyone is saying that Nahiri lists are inferior or trying to call into question Nahiri's strengths.
Yeah...I don't know about that; some of these posts come off rather aggressive. I don't mind the posting of non-Nahiri decklists and discussing.
It's the "Is Nahiri even worth running," attitude that bothers me. Btw, the answer to that question is, "Yes, yes she is. Whether or not you want to is another story. Next question please?"
Of course, questioning the "norm" or "established builds" is one of the step towards innovating. But damn man, I've never seen this much resistance from its own pilots in any other deck archetype. I know they mean well, but IMHO, I think they're just asking the *wrong* questions.
If we want some on-topic discussion, I'd welcome some thoughts on this question from a page ago. I know it's not the most high-level question, but it's also not discussing a Jeskai Harbinger deck with no Harbinger.
I still don't have a great sense of sideboarding with this deck. Is it normal to be swapping 4-6 [or even more for Infect/etc.] cards? On paper, my plan is often to cut counters (Remand in particular, but others vs. Cavern of Souls) and [possibly] Ancestral Vision vs. aggro, and cut sweepers vs. midrange/control where Timely / Path do a sufficient job, and bring in basically everything more relevant from the sideboard than what I've cut -- basically, transforming the deck from 50% board control and 50% stack control to 75/25 in the appropriate direction. Is this a normal way of approaching it, or am I way off base?
Maybe the short way of saying it is: Does this deck want to sideboard a larger number of cards per matchup than other decks to try to draw into the 'right half' of the deck, or is it better to stick closer to the 'default' 60?
Since this is a control deck, with generally a reactive game plan, I think it's more than reasonable to sideboard a lot of cards in -- so long as the cards sided in is better than the ones coming out. Because we're a deck of answers more than anything, it's fine to change a lot of the moving gears and parts of the deck.
If we were playing something like aggro or Suicide Zoo, then we wouldn't want to side in too many answers and counter-answer cards, because we have a very set and specific way we want to play (and need to play). You don't want to dilute your game plan. In the case of Jeskai Control, our game plan is more or less, tower defense. So anything that disrupts them from winning is always gonna set us ahead.
When playing against burn with Jeskai Control, there's nothing I love more than seeing my opponent not be able to cast spells, because they're stuck on a hand full of Destructive Revelries...all because they saw one Spellskite game 2.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
..random question on Vendilion Clique: why are we playing only 1 ?! Feels like a very strong card, even against the aggro match-ups, where it either trades or chumps+value ..
..is anyone considering playing 3 Nahiri ? I have seen the full playset in almost all versions of this deck, even though some lists feature only 3. with all the card-draw and -selection (SV/AV) it could be argued that 3 might be enough... how do you feel about this?
Against infect I actually kind of like counterspells (other than remand). Versus a good infect player, the matchup is always about mana efficiency and being able to cast more spells than them; mana leak can therefore be devastating even if they can pay for it. Spell Snare has few targets, but the few it does hit are very good; Spellskite, Blighted Agent and Apostle's Blessing. Infect generally only runs 12-14 infect "creatures" and the matchup is about trading for protection spells more than killing creatures, which makes countermagic very good
Cards I take out are first of all Anger of the Gods; sorcery 3 mana that can be thwarted by any pumpspell will probably just kill you. timely only helps against glistener elf. Clique tends to be ok as it can trade with a pumpspell but their deck has high redundancy making the hand disruption part not that great, and 3 mana is very mana inefficient in this matchup, so I prefer to cut it. AV is of course very slow here, but it does put them on a clock as resolving AV will mean you win; therefore I tend to cut one copy (going down to two) to make sure I don't draw two at the same time.
Sideboard counterspells and unconditional wraths come in, wear//tear is great as well. Special shoutout to crumble t dust for being a complete trap that will kill you if you try to crumble an inkmoth nexus; spreading seas is great though.
Hi, i'm going to try playing Jeskai Nahiri, I have read a lot of content about thise deck but need to see it in action bit more. Who knows any videos, twitch recaps/channels or something?
I only really like Wall of Omens together with Restoration Angel, which is awkward as it competes with Nahiri for the 4-drop spot. Many aggro decks in modern also have evasion (affinity, infect, merfolk) although the increase in Zoo-esque decks did make Wall of Omens a lot better.
Has anyone done some testing with Wall of Omens? Not seen it in any lists but it does seem great...chump blocker that protects Nahiri and gets some value. Especially nice when an opponent uses removal on it to attack Nahiri with creatures and then getting blown out by a removal spell.
I haven't tried Nahiri and Wall of Omens together, but I did play Walls + Resto in a jeskai build for a while way back when. Wall is just a good value creature.
The only times Wall doesn't shine is when your opponent isn't really looking to interact with it. For instance against combo, evasion, or other grindy decks. At that point you are just functionally cycling a card at sorcery speed (which isn't that big of a downside).
I think if you really want to get value out of the card then pairing it with a few Restos is a nice gameplan, though that eats into the 4 CMC slot with Nahiri.
I think you can cut a Nahiri because you have other options at 4 CMC. Plus this opens the option to side in the Kiki combo if you are so inclined. Moved AV to the sideboard since Wall + SV + Remand + Electrolyze + Cryptic should get you churning through the deck a good amount for game 1.
24 lands to ensure hitting the 4th land drop more consistently.
Seems like a plausible take on Nahiri.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Against infect I actually kind of like counterspells (other than remand). Versus a good infect player, the matchup is always about mana efficiency and being able to cast more spells than them; mana leak can therefore be devastating even if they can pay for it. Spell Snare has few targets, but the few it does hit are very good; Spellskite, Blighted Agent and Apostle's Blessing. Infect generally only runs 12-14 infect "creatures" and the matchup is about trading for protection spells more than killing creatures, which makes countermagic very good
Cards I take out are first of all Anger of the Gods; sorcery 3 mana that can be thwarted by any pumpspell will probably just kill you. timely only helps against glistener elf. Clique tends to be ok as it can trade with a pumpspell but their deck has high redundancy making the hand disruption part not that great, and 3 mana is very mana inefficient in this matchup, so I prefer to cut it. AV is of course very slow here, but it does put them on a clock as resolving AV will mean you win; therefore I tend to cut one copy (going down to two) to make sure I don't draw two at the same time.
Sideboard counterspells and unconditional wraths come in, wear//tear is great as well. Special shoutout to crumble t dust for being a complete trap that will kill you if you try to crumble an inkmoth nexus; spreading seas is great though.
I like Vendilion Clique in that matchup for the same reasons. It gives information, the flash is relevant if you need to keep mana open or block, and can put some serious pressure because they usually take a lot of damage from their cards.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
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Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
So... I know I'm not currently playing Nahiri. But I could really use some help with my list.
I feel like I want to add the 24th land... but no idea what to cut for it. I feel like the deck wants to keep all the other cards 0_o.
I've been trying recently some sort of variation with the deck but I seem to have a lot of trouble to make the manabase work, basically I want to play these cards MB
I was thinking replacing the sulfur falls for some filter lands, maybe rugged prairie, what are your opinions regarding cryptic command? is the effort not worth it?
BTW: I listed 23 lands because I always flood with 24, I know it's not optimal but that's just my luck I guess.
This supported my color requirements just fine. I also found the Lighthouse to help a lot in flood situations (and Nahiri as well). Only having 6 Blue fetches doesn't seem great with Cryptic in your deck though, unless you're willing to take a fair chunk of damage from your mana.
I don't think I could advocate going below 24 lands.
As for Cryptic, I like it a lot, though I don't play Ancestral Vision in the main deck (which, imo, takes up the Cryptic/Sweeper slot).
This supported my color requirements just fine. I also found the Lighthouse to help a lot in flood situations (and Nahiri as well). Only having 6 Blue fetches doesn't seem great with Cryptic in your deck though, unless you're willing to take a fair chunk of damage from your mana.
I don't think I could advocate going below 24 lands.
As for Cryptic, I like it a lot, though I don't play Ancestral Vision in the main deck (which, imo, takes up the Cryptic/Sweeper slot).
I feel like every time I change deck in modern I run into you, and we have very, VERY similar tastes, in playstyle too.
Could you please share your list?
I am currently playing Jeskai flash (or old control style) because I have been off of GPTs and stuff like that, but I feel like I have some time now and I would like to get back into competitive regional level.
To me Jeskai Nahiri with cryptic is the way to go, it is very much my playstile.
I am also not a fan of AV (but I saw Mclaren play with 2 in the main and was a nice addition).
Just one thing about your manabase, don't you think you could switch one of the steam vents for a second hallowed fountain?
Many times I have found myself wanting to have the second white, to play path + helix or nahiri + path.
Especially now that you have removed the double red from anger in the main.
To all the people who have issues with color requirements, have any of you considered Reflecting Pool? I've been using it for a while and it works fine. I like that it comes into play untapped and makes any mana you already have. We play enough fetch lands to not worry about getting cut off from a particular color.
If you want to run cryptic off a 23 land manabase you probably shouldn't run any colorless lands at all. A ninth fetchland can work. I also like chaos021's suggestion of reflecting pool, although you should treat it like a filterland; you probably don't want to run more than a singleton
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That's basically what happened
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
The mods made it VERY CLEAR that this is a thread to talk about the best builds of Nahiri Jeskai not spend page after page listing alternate decks and trying to call in to question Nahiri's strength. It's very close to driving me (and I'm sure others) completely away from this thread.
The mods also said non-nahiri related posts and deck lists would be respected.
I don't think anyone is saying that Nahiri lists are inferior or trying to call into question Nahiri's strengths.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Maybe the short way of saying it is: Does this deck want to sideboard a larger number of cards per matchup than other decks to try to draw into the 'right half' of the deck, or is it better to stick closer to the 'default' 60?
It depends on your build and your sideboard.
Infect - I typically take out remand and replace them with hard counters in my board (dispel, negate, etc.). I also bring in Staticaster.
Burn - I also take out remands in favor of hard counters/life gain. If I need extra room I find I can cut 1 or 2 paths depending on their build.
Suicide Zoo - I cut helix and bring in board wipes. If I need extra room I will occasionally cut remands.
Overall though I think your big picture analysis is correct.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
^^This. I'm wasting a lot of time sifting through post after post praying for a nugget of useful information. Instead I get almost nothing but Nahiri vs. non-Nahiri. It's like the equivalent of "NA vs. EU" bs in Twitch chat. At least with Twitch, you know it's mostly satirical...
Yeah...I don't know about that; some of these posts come off rather aggressive. I don't mind the posting of non-Nahiri decklists and discussing.
It's the "Is Nahiri even worth running," attitude that bothers me. Btw, the answer to that question is, "Yes, yes she is. Whether or not you want to is another story. Next question please?"
Of course, questioning the "norm" or "established builds" is one of the step towards innovating. But damn man, I've never seen this much resistance from its own pilots in any other deck archetype. I know they mean well, but IMHO, I think they're just asking the *wrong* questions.
Since this is a control deck, with generally a reactive game plan, I think it's more than reasonable to sideboard a lot of cards in -- so long as the cards sided in is better than the ones coming out. Because we're a deck of answers more than anything, it's fine to change a lot of the moving gears and parts of the deck.
If we were playing something like aggro or Suicide Zoo, then we wouldn't want to side in too many answers and counter-answer cards, because we have a very set and specific way we want to play (and need to play). You don't want to dilute your game plan. In the case of Jeskai Control, our game plan is more or less, tower defense. So anything that disrupts them from winning is always gonna set us ahead.
When playing against burn with Jeskai Control, there's nothing I love more than seeing my opponent not be able to cast spells, because they're stuck on a hand full of Destructive Revelries...all because they saw one Spellskite game 2.
Cards I take out are first of all Anger of the Gods; sorcery 3 mana that can be thwarted by any pumpspell will probably just kill you. timely only helps against glistener elf. Clique tends to be ok as it can trade with a pumpspell but their deck has high redundancy making the hand disruption part not that great, and 3 mana is very mana inefficient in this matchup, so I prefer to cut it. AV is of course very slow here, but it does put them on a clock as resolving AV will mean you win; therefore I tend to cut one copy (going down to two) to make sure I don't draw two at the same time.
Sideboard counterspells and unconditional wraths come in, wear//tear is great as well. Special shoutout to crumble t dust for being a complete trap that will kill you if you try to crumble an inkmoth nexus; spreading seas is great though.
I haven't tried Nahiri and Wall of Omens together, but I did play Walls + Resto in a jeskai build for a while way back when. Wall is just a good value creature.
The only times Wall doesn't shine is when your opponent isn't really looking to interact with it. For instance against combo, evasion, or other grindy decks. At that point you are just functionally cycling a card at sorcery speed (which isn't that big of a downside).
I think if you really want to get value out of the card then pairing it with a few Restos is a nice gameplan, though that eats into the 4 CMC slot with Nahiri.
Something like:
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Wall of Omens
3 Restoration Angel
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Spells 21
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Serum Visions
3 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
24 Cavern of Souls
I think you can cut a Nahiri because you have other options at 4 CMC. Plus this opens the option to side in the Kiki combo if you are so inclined. Moved AV to the sideboard since Wall + SV + Remand + Electrolyze + Cryptic should get you churning through the deck a good amount for game 1.
24 lands to ensure hitting the 4th land drop more consistently.
Seems like a plausible take on Nahiri.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I like Vendilion Clique in that matchup for the same reasons. It gives information, the flash is relevant if you need to keep mana open or block, and can put some serious pressure because they usually take a lot of damage from their cards.
I feel like I want to add the 24th land... but no idea what to cut for it. I feel like the deck wants to keep all the other cards 0_o.
3x Celestial Colonnade
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Snow-Covered Mountain
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Cryptic Command
2x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Mana Leak
4x Path to Exile
4x Remand
Creature (13)
4x Restoration Angel
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Spell Queller
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Dispel
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Negate
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Stony Silence
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Wear / Tear
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I was a big fan of it as it also protects Nahiri from burnspells, but in the end it took up too much sideboarding space
but it stresses my current mana base too much:
I was thinking replacing the sulfur falls for some filter lands, maybe rugged prairie, what are your opinions regarding cryptic command? is the effort not worth it?
BTW: I listed 23 lands because I always flood with 24, I know it's not optimal but that's just my luck I guess.
4 Flooded Strand
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Glacial Fortress
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse
This supported my color requirements just fine. I also found the Lighthouse to help a lot in flood situations (and Nahiri as well). Only having 6 Blue fetches doesn't seem great with Cryptic in your deck though, unless you're willing to take a fair chunk of damage from your mana.
I don't think I could advocate going below 24 lands.
As for Cryptic, I like it a lot, though I don't play Ancestral Vision in the main deck (which, imo, takes up the Cryptic/Sweeper slot).
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I feel like every time I change deck in modern I run into you, and we have very, VERY similar tastes, in playstyle too.
Could you please share your list?
I am currently playing Jeskai flash (or old control style) because I have been off of GPTs and stuff like that, but I feel like I have some time now and I would like to get back into competitive regional level.
To me Jeskai Nahiri with cryptic is the way to go, it is very much my playstile.
I am also not a fan of AV (but I saw Mclaren play with 2 in the main and was a nice addition).
Just one thing about your manabase, don't you think you could switch one of the steam vents for a second hallowed fountain?
Many times I have found myself wanting to have the second white, to play path + helix or nahiri + path.
Especially now that you have removed the double red from anger in the main.
Just wanted to put that out there.
URBGrixis ControlBRUURBGrixis Death's ShadowBRU[
URBGrixis TwinBRUGWUGWx VizierGWU
UWRJeskai NahiriRWUGBBG RockBG