i think those are good alternative options with different upsides, but i can think of plenty of situations where roast is better than each one of those cards. so i wouldnt rate it below them without matchup context.
valorous stance? cmon son get that weak stuff outa here
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Valorous stance is actually really underrated in modern. Its much better in queller builds, though.
Yes, they're not strictly better, but I would rarely play roast over them. We have white, we don't need to settle for roast.
Azorius Charm is a trash card for Modern and is only a Standard/ block card Valorous Stance is too narrow. Roast hits things smaller than 4, which is very important against decks like Humans. What do we really need to kill in the current meta that has 4cmc or higher? Primeval Titan? Roast hits a higher percentage of creatures that are in the meta.
I'd say that the only other good consideration would be Abrade
Valorous stance isn't CMC, its toughness.
While I agree azorius charm is not that strong, its seen a non-zero amount of modern play. Being able to cycle is not insignificant. That being said, blessed alliance is going to be better in a majority of circumstances.
Valorous stance is an instant, which is a pretty big deal. It still hits some things vs humans (mantis rider w/ a +1/+1 counter or exalted trigger, hits champion/lieutenant, etc. It hits big tarmogoyfs that roast misses, it hits restoration angel, prime time, the occasional creature out of affinity, death's shadows, etc. The fact that lightning bolt (which we play 6+ copies of) works well with valorous stance is the big draw. We don't really need more removal against humans, we need more removal against shadow, hollow one, etc. Playing more copies of bolt/helix is an option for many us, if thats what we needed, but its not really.
Abrade is also decent, but it does have the problem of being too similar to bolt/helix. I would probably never play it mainboard unless I was already playing 4 bolt/4 helix.
I like my red spells to have the option to go face, not just fill a niche that a bunch of other cards could solve. I'd rather board in blessed alliance than roast.
you guys are thinking too hard about it, its just redundancy. having more copies of cards that deal with problem threats improves the chance you'll see them in games when you need them.
we are talking about a single copy of roast lol. not the most efficient card but serviceable. there are a ton of other options that fall into this power range, and they ALL dont see more play because of this.
magma spray, forked bolt, flame slash, abrade, oust, condemn, blessed alliance, dismember, etc.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Wow, didn't think Roast would get this much discussion when I posted it lol. For whomever thinks it's trash or whatnot, I got the idea from a deck that ran a single copy that placed in top 8 of a recent tournament; I forget which tournament TBH, but there are reasons for it: I run 3 bolts -- not4 -- and 3 helix, which makes it okay. There's a reason I don't run the other cards, as people have stated above. I mean, you guys know how many times you don't want to Path a small creature, but you don't have a Bolt because you only have 3 in your deck, so Roast covers that, unlike Valorous Stance (if that makes any sense). Then the big creature comes out, and you don't have a Path and your 4th Bolt does come out... but this time it's not your 4th bolt it's Roast! See, it covers more options. It's an okay card and it fits this deck. Remember guys, the point of a control deck is it's malleability: if the meta calls for something different, we put it in.
P.S.
I cut Crumble to Dust on the side and just put in Stony Silence. It's more flexible against the field. I also cut 1 Spreading Seas and added in Mana Leak. I seriously think Seas works in Jeskai so I'm keeping the single, and Mana Leak is just too good to ignore in this meta when everyone loves tapping out on turn 2 and 3. Sometimes Logic Knot doesn't cut it, for various reasons.
I think I would play maindeck D-Sphere over Roast since it deals with the same problems + phoenix, Blood ghast, Tokens and more. I die more often to recursive threats than H1 or Angler.
That is a very good idea, and I know U/W Control has done that in the past. It is another mana, but I will consider it for sure.
not necessary but one of the better finishers we've used in a while since it has applications in the early and mid game. just a good option for big jeskai, but i dont count it as a strike against a list if i dont see it.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I tested Secure the Wastes tonight and it worked quite well against the decks I played. Probably going to keep it in.
The other card I'm not sure of is Field of Ruin. Sometimes it feels great, other times I'm not so sure. Drawing it when you need colored mana is terrible, but it helps a lot agaist manlands and Cavern. Should it be in all our decks?
I tested Secure the Wastes tonight and it worked quite well against the decks I played. Probably going to keep it in.
The other card I'm not sure of is Field of Ruin. Sometimes it feels great, other times I'm not so sure. Drawing it when you need colored mana is terrible, but it helps a lot agaist manlands and Cavern. Should it be in all our decks?
Manlands, Caverns, Tron lands, and screwing over greedy mana bases are all good arguments. I know that some Grixis lists are running a full 4 Field (and I'd never sleeve up UW without the full set). I'd be hesitant to go up over 2 with Jeskai's 3 colors + heavy color weight, but it's probably doable.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
ill probably try out 2 when i can get my hands on them. the issue is that nobody really knows how effective they will be across the spectrum of matchups. for instance if is only good against storm and tron, while also having a noticeable drawback for us, then we might end up not playing any.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I think Damping Sphere is an auto include unless you don't care about either of the Storm or Tron MUs. It's also real against Amulet Titan, KCI, Jeskai Ascendancy, Cheeri0s, and a lot of random Jank.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
valorous stance? cmon son get that weak stuff outa here
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Yes, they're not strictly better, but I would rarely play roast over them. We have white, we don't need to settle for roast.
Valorous Stance is too narrow.
Roast hits things smaller than 4, which is very important against decks like Humans. What do we really need to kill in the current meta that has 4cmc or higher? Primeval Titan? Roast hits a higher percentage of creatures that are in the meta.
I'd say that the only other good consideration would be Abrade
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
While I agree azorius charm is not that strong, its seen a non-zero amount of modern play. Being able to cycle is not insignificant. That being said, blessed alliance is going to be better in a majority of circumstances.
Valorous stance is an instant, which is a pretty big deal. It still hits some things vs humans (mantis rider w/ a +1/+1 counter or exalted trigger, hits champion/lieutenant, etc. It hits big tarmogoyfs that roast misses, it hits restoration angel, prime time, the occasional creature out of affinity, death's shadows, etc. The fact that lightning bolt (which we play 6+ copies of) works well with valorous stance is the big draw. We don't really need more removal against humans, we need more removal against shadow, hollow one, etc. Playing more copies of bolt/helix is an option for many us, if thats what we needed, but its not really.
Abrade is also decent, but it does have the problem of being too similar to bolt/helix. I would probably never play it mainboard unless I was already playing 4 bolt/4 helix.
I like my red spells to have the option to go face, not just fill a niche that a bunch of other cards could solve. I'd rather board in blessed alliance than roast.
we are talking about a single copy of roast lol. not the most efficient card but serviceable. there are a ton of other options that fall into this power range, and they ALL dont see more play because of this.
magma spray, forked bolt, flame slash, abrade, oust, condemn, blessed alliance, dismember, etc.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)P.S.
I cut Crumble to Dust on the side and just put in Stony Silence. It's more flexible against the field. I also cut 1 Spreading Seas and added in Mana Leak. I seriously think Seas works in Jeskai so I'm keeping the single, and Mana Leak is just too good to ignore in this meta when everyone loves tapping out on turn 2 and 3. Sometimes Logic Knot doesn't cut it, for various reasons.
-2 Visions
+2 Seas
....
What do you guys think lmao
That is a very good idea, and I know U/W Control has done that in the past. It is another mana, but I will consider it for sure.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)The other card I'm not sure of is Field of Ruin. Sometimes it feels great, other times I'm not so sure. Drawing it when you need colored mana is terrible, but it helps a lot agaist manlands and Cavern. Should it be in all our decks?
Manlands, Caverns, Tron lands, and screwing over greedy mana bases are all good arguments. I know that some Grixis lists are running a full 4 Field (and I'd never sleeve up UW without the full set). I'd be hesitant to go up over 2 with Jeskai's 3 colors + heavy color weight, but it's probably doable.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Just like any other strategy in any UWx Control deck. Does that stop Stony Silence or RiP being as powerful as they are?
The need for a clock is often forgotten but is the fundamental piece of beating any big mana deck. Agreed.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza