The emrakul is just there for the shuffle trigger, it's a 1 card strategy against mill. They can't beat it. Unless mill is popular in your area I wouldn't recommend it, but sometimes it will show up in competitive leagues online for like a week straight and the grinders start adding eldrazi to the board after seeing Nassif pull it off.
Trials is seeing play because of the resurgence of Shadow, it's an all star there. It's also not too shabby in the pheonix match which doesn't seem like it would be the case. The more we move lean on spot removal, such as adding the 1st or 2nd copy of Condemn/Oust the better trials becomes because it forces them to overextend and then eventually we find a sweeper.
I really like the mission briefings in the last list, especially if Trials is starting to show up again. I've always found snapcaster a little lackluster because the 2/1 is so ineffectual in most matchups but the effect is too strong to leave out. Especially in Terminus lists the scry 2 has got to be better than a 2/1 more than 50% of the time. I tested in pretty extensively and I came to the conclusion that it usually is better than a 2/1 but the fact that it's UU instead of U1 matter sometimes so i chose to stick with Snappy boy for now. I keep it in mind often though.
I don't think UW is particularly well positioned right now, so if your goal is strictly to get an edge I'd go with another deck. Pheonix is probably best, it's busted and will likely be neutered by a ban soon so give it a whirl while you have a chance. Your suggestion of Dredge is a good choice too though. That said UW is still a ton of fun and is good enough to be a reasonable choice for any tournament.
3-4 with 4 being more likely. Not like our mana base can’t manage it. Might have to cut a colorless to support it but I doubt it. Counterspell will be the best thing to be doing with Teferi. I think it’s a slim chance we get it though.
Yeah that’s what i figured. Logic Knots, Mana Leak, negate go to the board, (I run four copies of those cards total) and replace worse counters like disdainful Stroke in the board. And then in the spots that freed up main we put Counterspell? Would it change the ratio of jace to Teferi? Also I think it’s not too unlikely. Wizards wants to slow down modern and I think that’s a good way to do it.
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Hey all, just wanted to post an updated list before regionals. Think this is where I’m at at least until modern horizons. This deck has been performing exceptionally well. The spice in the SB especially.
Creatures:3
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells:32
4 Opt
1 Oust
4 Path to Exile
2 Serum Visions
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
2 Negate
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Detention Sphere
3 Cryptic Command
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
4 Terminus
Lands:25
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
6 Island
2 Plains
Sideboard:15
1 Spell Queller
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
2 Dispel
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Celestial Purge
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Rest in Peace
1 Runed Halo
2 Timely Reinforcements
Also, a note about the position of this deck in the meta; I do not agree that it isn’t “well positioned”. Of the “top decks” right now the only one I feel truly an underdog against is tron. All the other matchups we are at least 50/50. I’d argue 60/40. I think UW is just a deck people are generally less likely to play right now because they think Phoneix is a bad matchup or are too scared of dredge. There is always something to be said for sticking to a deck you like and mastering it. It won’t matter at that point what you play against, but that’s just one New Englanders opinion.
Anyway, thanks for reading as always feel free to discuss.
A lot of people being interviewed at the GP were saying Counterspell. It's still not that powerful compared to what all the combo decks are doing. Control decks are looking pretty dead at the big events, and I'm not even sure how much this would save them, but it'd be a great start.
edit: @Ryguyasaurus I don't think it's badly positioned either. I never feel like I have a bad matchup, but a lot of times i'm just trying to survive and end up running out of answers. I think we need more threats than just CC and a couple little snapcaster mages and a clique... or less situational counterspells.
If UW was 60/40 against all the top decks it would be closer to the top of the metagame in every event.
In terms of top decks UW is a huge dog to spirits and Tron and is only a favourite against shadow. Dredge is not a walk in the park and burn has a small edge on us as well . I'd agree the rest of the matchups are close enough to 50/50 though.
I also wholeheartedly agree with playing a deck you're more comfortable with in modern. Definitely a format that favors mastery as you said.
My only criticism on your list would be the ghost quarter as the 5th colorless source. The 4 field of ruins are good enough to keep utility lands in check and despite popular opinion GQ just isn't good against Tron. The 5th colorless land is a vestige from the days of spreading seas when targeting basics was actually useful and Mana denial was part of the main strategy of the deck.
A lot of people being interviewed at the GP were saying Counterspell. It's still not that powerful compared to what all the combo decks are doing. Control decks are looking pretty dead at the big events, and I'm not even sure how much this would save them, but it'd be a great start.
edit: @Ryguyasaurus I don't think it's badly positioned either. I never feel like I have a bad matchup, but a lot of times i'm just trying to survive and end up running out of answers. I think we need more threats than just CC and a couple little snapcaster mages and a clique... or less situational counterspells.
I actually never seem to notice that problem. Just remember that we aren’t actually trying to “win” we are just trying not to lose. Counter the spells that matter most and save paths for the creatures that need to be answered. Terminus takes care of everything else. Use your life total as a resource winnng at 1 and winning at 20 are the same.
If all goes well than most of the time you get in position of advantage with Jace/Teferi then just win that way or with colonnades.
I think bant spirits is tough but it’s not atrocious. I don’t ever sit across from it and think I can’t win easily. We have the tools. Always just prioritize lords and you can get them in awkward situations with wanderers.
The GQ is there for % points against tron and lands matters decks. The extra colorless land is hardly ever noticeable or hurts us. It could easily be another basic if it’s not your thing. It wouldn’t hurt the deck too much. I do think if we get Counterspell that the GQ becomes mystic gate.
I've been playing GQ since I picked up the deck because I wanted to beat tron big time. To do that I almost always played Crucible, sometimes on the maindeck others out of the board.
It has happened a bigger number of times that I'd like to admit, that I'd get completly screwed out of playing my mana intensive spells like Absorb, Supreme Verdict, etc... because I just had too many colorless sources. To add to this issue. I've played recently against ponza and got my white mana completely annihilated and I felt I had 1 too few basic plains.
Because of this I readjusted my sideboard plan against tron with the inclusion of 2 Damping Spheres and adding the second Geist of Saint Traft. With this change, I played against tron only twice and I didn't miss the GQ and the Geist, as expected was amazing. I managed to win 3rd game with 2 minutes on the clock starting in. The Damping Spheres haven't been stelar but it slows them down enough if you can present a clock and they also hoze other matchups like Phoenix, Storm, Elves, Ad Nauseam, Amulet...
On Counterspell... I'll definately play 4 CS main, in place of Mana Leak, Logic Knot, Negate and Condemn. I'll keep my 1of Spell Snare and probably up its count to 2 on the main. (It's probably one of the best counters in modern and will probably be even more so because of Counterspell). On the sideboard I'll play the 2 Dispel and 1/2 Negates. That will probably be it. I totally think we deserve it and this is the time to get it.
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Playing logic knots in addition to counterspell are fine if you think you need plenty of countermagic, but not until you've got the 4th counterspell. Playing around spell snare is way too cute. Firstly because the vast majority of decks you'll be up against won't be playing any spell snares and secondly because spell snare has other high value targets against us.
Playing logic knots in addition to counterspell are fine if you think you need plenty of countermagic, but not until you've got the 4th counterspell. Playing around spell snare is way too cute. Firstly because the vast majority of decks you'll be up against won't be playing any spell snares and secondly because spell snare has other high value targets against us.
It's too early to say that. But on paper having a couple of Knots won't be that big of a deal. I'm currently playing 5 counters + 5th removal spell. It's really easy to find space for the 4 Counterspells, 1-2 Knots and 1-2 Snares.
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I don't think it's controversial to say that most decks won't play snare or that snare has other high value targets against us. In light of those, if you choose to play knot which is worse than counterspell against 99% of the card pool of modern and is dampened by your own sideboard plans in addition to only being useful exactly when you draw knot over counterspell (20-33% of the time) and only when your opponent has spell snare, which is likely never more than a 1-of, that's on you.
I don't think it's controversial to say that most decks won't play snare or that snare has other high value targets against us. In light of those, if you choose to play knot which is worse than counterspell against 99% of the card pool of modern and is dampened by your own sideboard plans in addition to only being useful exactly when you draw knot over counterspell (20-33% of the time) and only when your opponent has spell snare, which is likely never more than a 1-of, that's on you.
A few points: I've seen many users on here and Reddit say they will be on at least 2 Snares if we get Counterspell, and talked to people irl who agree. It's not going to be uncommon.
I also usually play Surgical over RiP, so it won't be a problem with my SB plans. Plus the difference between 3 and 4 Counterspells post board won't likely be an issue -- I often board down on counters anyways.
Knot isn't suddenly uplayable when Counterspell is legal - it's just as good as it used to be and most happen to play 2 so it should be fine to play a copy against the field.
If you get blown out in a counter war in the mirror because they play a niche card that 99% acts the same but happens to dodge the Snare you thought would win you the battle, then you may change your tune.
I don't think so, I'm not so susceptible to confirmation bias; I've had enough situations come up in the past already where logic knot is a brick, most often when you go colonnade into island and curse yourself for playing knot over leak. Or when your opponent is on maindeck relic of progenitus, gaddock teeg, or when bad players think it's appropriate to bring RIP in against you. I'm sure you've come across all of these scenarios as well. Logic knot might be for you if feeling like a genius 1% of the time is more important than not having a dead card some percent of the time.
I don't think so, I'm not so susceptible to confirmation bias; I've had enough situations come up in the past already where logic knot is a brick, most often when you go colonnade into island and curse yourself for playing knot over leak. Or when your opponent is on maindeck relic of progenitus, gaddock teeg, or when bad players think it's appropriate to bring RIP in against you. I'm sure you've come across all of these scenarios as well. Logic knot might be for you if feeling like a genius 1% of the time is more important than not having a dead card some percent of the time.
No one is denying that Knot is a mediocre counterspell, but the number of times it rots in your hand is also dependent on the fact that the rest of your counter suite is suboptimal. The typical suite is 1 Snare, 1/2 Knots, 0/1 Leaks, 1 Negate.
With this configuration, there's a somewhat high chance that the 1st counter you'll need is a Knot and that you'll fail to do it because you haven't met the requirements for it to be any good. On the other hand, if you're playing 4 Counterspells and 1 Knot, since CS is the most generic counter there is, you can navigate the game in such a way that you diminish the Knot's downside.
Anyway you can dislike it all you want. I hate both Knot and Leak. I hate to play them and I lost countless games that I feel I shouldn't, just because they aren't stellar in the late game and, in the case of Knot, sometimes mediocre in the early game. I'll definitely be playing 4 CS and some number of Snares. If there's room I'll fit in a couple of Knots and move the Negates to sideboard and burn my Mana Leaks at the fireplace.
PS: I just ordered a playset of the Jace spellbook ones because the frame looks really nice and it's one of my favorite arts for the card. I only wish they don't screw me over by printing it with an even cooler art that will make me want to let go of the awesome frame these have.
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Trials is seeing play because of the resurgence of Shadow, it's an all star there. It's also not too shabby in the pheonix match which doesn't seem like it would be the case. The more we move lean on spot removal, such as adding the 1st or 2nd copy of Condemn/Oust the better trials becomes because it forces them to overextend and then eventually we find a sweeper.
I really like the mission briefings in the last list, especially if Trials is starting to show up again. I've always found snapcaster a little lackluster because the 2/1 is so ineffectual in most matchups but the effect is too strong to leave out. Especially in Terminus lists the scry 2 has got to be better than a 2/1 more than 50% of the time. I tested in pretty extensively and I came to the conclusion that it usually is better than a 2/1 but the fact that it's UU instead of U1 matter sometimes so i chose to stick with Snappy boy for now. I keep it in mind often though.
I don't think UW is particularly well positioned right now, so if your goal is strictly to get an edge I'd go with another deck. Pheonix is probably best, it's busted and will likely be neutered by a ban soon so give it a whirl while you have a chance. Your suggestion of Dredge is a good choice too though. That said UW is still a ton of fun and is good enough to be a reasonable choice for any tournament.
Creatures:3
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells:32
4 Opt
1 Oust
4 Path to Exile
2 Serum Visions
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
2 Negate
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Detention Sphere
3 Cryptic Command
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
4 Terminus
Lands:25
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
6 Island
2 Plains
Sideboard:15
1 Spell Queller
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
2 Dispel
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Celestial Purge
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Rest in Peace
1 Runed Halo
2 Timely Reinforcements
Also, a note about the position of this deck in the meta; I do not agree that it isn’t “well positioned”. Of the “top decks” right now the only one I feel truly an underdog against is tron. All the other matchups we are at least 50/50. I’d argue 60/40. I think UW is just a deck people are generally less likely to play right now because they think Phoneix is a bad matchup or are too scared of dredge. There is always something to be said for sticking to a deck you like and mastering it. It won’t matter at that point what you play against, but that’s just one New Englanders opinion.
Anyway, thanks for reading as always feel free to discuss.
edit: @Ryguyasaurus I don't think it's badly positioned either. I never feel like I have a bad matchup, but a lot of times i'm just trying to survive and end up running out of answers. I think we need more threats than just CC and a couple little snapcaster mages and a clique... or less situational counterspells.
In terms of top decks UW is a huge dog to spirits and Tron and is only a favourite against shadow. Dredge is not a walk in the park and burn has a small edge on us as well . I'd agree the rest of the matchups are close enough to 50/50 though.
I also wholeheartedly agree with playing a deck you're more comfortable with in modern. Definitely a format that favors mastery as you said.
My only criticism on your list would be the ghost quarter as the 5th colorless source. The 4 field of ruins are good enough to keep utility lands in check and despite popular opinion GQ just isn't good against Tron. The 5th colorless land is a vestige from the days of spreading seas when targeting basics was actually useful and Mana denial was part of the main strategy of the deck.
I actually never seem to notice that problem. Just remember that we aren’t actually trying to “win” we are just trying not to lose. Counter the spells that matter most and save paths for the creatures that need to be answered. Terminus takes care of everything else. Use your life total as a resource winnng at 1 and winning at 20 are the same.
If all goes well than most of the time you get in position of advantage with Jace/Teferi then just win that way or with colonnades.
The GQ is there for % points against tron and lands matters decks. The extra colorless land is hardly ever noticeable or hurts us. It could easily be another basic if it’s not your thing. It wouldn’t hurt the deck too much. I do think if we get Counterspell that the GQ becomes mystic gate.
It has happened a bigger number of times that I'd like to admit, that I'd get completly screwed out of playing my mana intensive spells like Absorb, Supreme Verdict, etc... because I just had too many colorless sources. To add to this issue. I've played recently against ponza and got my white mana completely annihilated and I felt I had 1 too few basic plains.
Because of this I readjusted my sideboard plan against tron with the inclusion of 2 Damping Spheres and adding the second Geist of Saint Traft. With this change, I played against tron only twice and I didn't miss the GQ and the Geist, as expected was amazing. I managed to win 3rd game with 2 minutes on the clock starting in. The Damping Spheres haven't been stelar but it slows them down enough if you can present a clock and they also hoze other matchups like Phoenix, Storm, Elves, Ad Nauseam, Amulet...
On Counterspell... I'll definately play 4 CS main, in place of Mana Leak, Logic Knot, Negate and Condemn. I'll keep my 1of Spell Snare and probably up its count to 2 on the main. (It's probably one of the best counters in modern and will probably be even more so because of Counterspell). On the sideboard I'll play the 2 Dispel and 1/2 Negates. That will probably be it. I totally think we deserve it and this is the time to get it.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
A few points: I've seen many users on here and Reddit say they will be on at least 2 Snares if we get Counterspell, and talked to people irl who agree. It's not going to be uncommon.
I also usually play Surgical over RiP, so it won't be a problem with my SB plans. Plus the difference between 3 and 4 Counterspells post board won't likely be an issue -- I often board down on counters anyways.
Knot isn't suddenly uplayable when Counterspell is legal - it's just as good as it used to be and most happen to play 2 so it should be fine to play a copy against the field.
If you get blown out in a counter war in the mirror because they play a niche card that 99% acts the same but happens to dodge the Snare you thought would win you the battle, then you may change your tune.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
With this configuration, there's a somewhat high chance that the 1st counter you'll need is a Knot and that you'll fail to do it because you haven't met the requirements for it to be any good. On the other hand, if you're playing 4 Counterspells and 1 Knot, since CS is the most generic counter there is, you can navigate the game in such a way that you diminish the Knot's downside.
Anyway you can dislike it all you want. I hate both Knot and Leak. I hate to play them and I lost countless games that I feel I shouldn't, just because they aren't stellar in the late game and, in the case of Knot, sometimes mediocre in the early game. I'll definitely be playing 4 CS and some number of Snares. If there's room I'll fit in a couple of Knots and move the Negates to sideboard and burn my Mana Leaks at the fireplace.
PS: I just ordered a playset of the Jace spellbook ones because the frame looks really nice and it's one of my favorite arts for the card. I only wish they don't screw me over by printing it with an even cooler art that will make me want to let go of the awesome frame these have.
WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR