What do you guys think about Jace, the Living Guildpact? He can be the third Jace in the deck.
Can help setting up Miracle and also can bounce problematic permanents. He can also take bouncing creature duty while Jace TMS brainstorms you into victory.
awful, teferi do almost the same, at 2 less mana;)
I’ve been running a very similar list with the following MB changes:
-1 JtMS
-2 Think Twice
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Ancestral Visions
I’ve gone 10-2 over the last couple of weeks with it. The losses were to UR Storm and Humans. The wins were against G Tron(3 matches), Mardu Pyromancer, Elves (2), 8 rack, GW Value town, UR Wizards and Abzan.
Having the third snapcaster has been very good and would highly recommend it. And I have liked the Ancestral Visions enough that I’m considering cutting something to make room for a third one of those as well.
I’ve been running a very similar list with the following MB changes:
-1 JtMS
-2 Think Twice
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Ancestral Visions
I’ve gone 10-2 over the last couple of weeks with it. The losses were to UR Storm and Humans. The wins were against G Tron(3 matches), Mardu Pyromancer, Elves (2), 8 rack, GW Value town, UR Wizards and Abzan.
Having the third snapcaster has been very good and would highly recommend it. And I have liked the Ancestral Visions enough that I’m considering cutting something to make room for a third one of those as well.
Grats, 10-2 is a nice run. I like the idea of having the third snap, but I also like being able to just board in RiP without worrying about turning off too many snaps. AV seems like it could be a nice addition... depending on how the deck performs at the SCG Open tomorrow, I might test some AV in main board. Seems like a solid turn 1 play, since you aren't usually trying to set up any miracle casts that early anyway.
I don't know how do you beat Tron with the Miracles version.
I'm still playing the classic list with 4 spreading seas and it's a very difficult matchup. I can't play it with only counters and 4 field of ruin.
I'm curious about this too. What do people find are their hardest matchups with the Terminus version of the deck? (Wondering because I have most of the cards for it, but haven't played any games with it)
I agree that I have been on the positive side of variance vs. Tron the last week or 2. Some of this comes from the fact I knew the players were on Tron and I’m not afraid to keep the 2 land opener with a Field of Ruin. Also, I will cast a cryptic during their upkeep to bounce a Tron land back to their hand; and then snap the cryptic back to do the same. Then setting up an Entreat with Jace usually seals it; nothing is more fun to cast Opt on their end step reveal/cast Entreat for 4-6 angels. The Tron matchup has felt much more reasonable to me since Jace was unbanned and Teferi was printed. Post board I bring in 2 Stony, 2 Damping Sphere and 1-2 Ceremonious Rejection, depending on how many I’m running that day.
Tron is still beatable by just drawing a million counters/path to exiles, with a field of ruin, stony silence, damping sphere, etc, thrown in. Spreading seas obviously helps, but those, coupled with cliques and jace gives you a fighting chance.
Tron is still beatable by just drawing a million counters/path to exiles, with a field of ruin, stony silence, damping sphere, etc, thrown in. Spreading seas obviously helps, but those, coupled with cliques and jace gives you a fighting chance.
Can someone help me out with some sideboard guidance? I've been on the list about 3-4 weeks and im still having some questions on what to cut when boarding in.
There's not a consensus 75 list for the miracles build though, but I do think that UW miracles is the best control deck in the format right now, but that isnt to say that no innovation is possible.
Ok, thanks Cody. I threw together what I figured would work, with what I had from UWR. Terminus is quite a card lol. Game was long, but I was never in danger...
Heat checker was streaming recently and he had a pretty impartial opinion. All versions of UW are good (it's the best blue based control deck). There's not much percentage points difference between Miracles and seas/verdict versions. Seas is better vs tron and GDS, and terminus version is worse vs GDS but better vs graveyard recursion decks. With how well both versions do, it seems like a meta call.
How do you usually win the game? I've played a lot of Esper control where the go-to win is an end of turn secure the wastes, an Elspeth sun's champion, or nuking their hand with Esper charm to clear a path for colonnades. But usually secure.
Is it common to Jace or teferi ultimate? Because I only see one entreat, colonnades, snaps and one clique as other ways to win. Without the ability to eat their hand you'd have to fight every bolt push and path to get there with these guys.
So is it mostly jtms ultimate or entreat miracle ?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
How do you usually win the game? I've played a lot of Esper control where the go-to win is an end of turn secure the wastes, an Elspeth sun's champion, or nuking their hand with Esper charm to clear a path for colonnades. But usually secure.
Is it common to Jace or teferi ultimate? Because I only see one entreat, colonnades, snaps and one clique as other ways to win. Without the ability to eat their hand you'd have to fight every bolt push and path to get there with these guys.
So is it mostly jtms ultimate or entreat miracle ?
It doesn't really matter which route to victory you take usually, once you've taken over the game there is often a few options to choose from. I would say most often it's Colonnade beats, but ulting a planeswalker is a fine route to take as well. Opponents who understand what is going on will often concede in paper, but they usually try to eat up your clock online. It can be pretty obvious when they are trying to eat your clock and at that point you just need to choose a route and execute it ASAP, they often just draw, play a land to make it look like they are playing, and pass the turn.
How do you usually win the game? I've played a lot of Esper control where the go-to win is an end of turn secure the wastes, an Elspeth sun's champion, or nuking their hand with Esper charm to clear a path for colonnades. But usually secure.
Is it common to Jace or teferi ultimate? Because I only see one entreat, colonnades, snaps and one clique as other ways to win. Without the ability to eat their hand you'd have to fight every bolt push and path to get there with these guys.
So is it mostly jtms ultimate or entreat miracle ?
I play mostly friendly leagues on mtgo.
1) people concede before I win in 10 turns
2) Jace ult
3) collonade/creature damage
4) teferis ult
5) timing people out
6) decking people with teferi
I probably should look to win more with colonnade, but when I have 1-2 walkers going I don't feel like getting blown out by removal.
I know the hot keys really well so I can play really fast. I normally am ahead on time against most of my opponents even the aggro ones.
Yeah I found I was torn between brainstorming to dig for entreat or just fatesealing into ultimate. If fateseal is actually a common path then id try that more often. With esper it is almost always better to just brainstorm because you can then esper charm their hand to lower risk while putting snap beats out.
With miracles the snap value is like opt or telling time which is only good if youre digging for certain things (jace, teferi, entreat... maybe clique)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Interesting debate lately on Terminus vs Wraths (eg, see Nassif vs Larsson, Lax). Anyone with experience testing both want to share results? It seems like most here are on the Terminus plan -- if so, do you agree with Larsson about 4 main deck AV, are you with Lax on 2 in them SB, or none at all? Also unusual of Larsson to cut the Search entirely -- that seems like a minority view, but a good discussion point, if anyone wants to join in.
Yeah it seems to me what made UW Control strong is JTMS getting off the ban list and getting new friends in THOD and Search. As for Miracles, I mean nothing beats a 1 mana boardwipe especially since Teferi out means you have an additional 2 mana to work with. What did he replace Search with?
Larsson replaces Search with Ancestral Vision, and as a corollary, he replaces the SB Rest in Peace with Surgicals. His theory is that opponent boards in enchantment kill vs UW, and he jukes by not actually having enchantments (save one lone Sphere, which he often cuts when he expects the 4 Nature's Claim approach). I presume that the increased amount of Field of Ruin in control mirrors also factors into his decision here.
Regarding Miracles, I mean of course no one objects to a one mana board wipe. Nassif's issue was that he felt it was too poor when actually hardcast to be worth the tradeoff, as far as I could tell from his article. It's like, do you want a 1 or a 10, or just a 6 all the time?
Fundamentally, since Modern is about doing broken things, I think you are supposed to ride the variance and play (pray?) for the Miracle, but it's also hard to argue with Gabriel Nassif on things control. Not sure if there is a "Truth" here, but thought it might be a good discussion topic.
awful, teferi do almost the same, at 2 less mana;)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1213484#paper
Suggestions? Concerns? I am playing at an SCG Open this weekend, making last minute changes.
I’ve been running a very similar list with the following MB changes:
-1 JtMS
-2 Think Twice
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Ancestral Visions
I’ve gone 10-2 over the last couple of weeks with it. The losses were to UR Storm and Humans. The wins were against G Tron(3 matches), Mardu Pyromancer, Elves (2), 8 rack, GW Value town, UR Wizards and Abzan.
Having the third snapcaster has been very good and would highly recommend it. And I have liked the Ancestral Visions enough that I’m considering cutting something to make room for a third one of those as well.
Grats, 10-2 is a nice run. I like the idea of having the third snap, but I also like being able to just board in RiP without worrying about turning off too many snaps. AV seems like it could be a nice addition... depending on how the deck performs at the SCG Open tomorrow, I might test some AV in main board. Seems like a solid turn 1 play, since you aren't usually trying to set up any miracle casts that early anyway.
I'm curious about this too. What do people find are their hardest matchups with the Terminus version of the deck? (Wondering because I have most of the cards for it, but haven't played any games with it)
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1220866#paper
This is basically my list and sideboard. -1 disdainful stroke +1 lyra
I'd love to hear sideboard plans for meta modern decks. Humans/Tron/Jeskai/Mardu pyro/UR variants/GDS/Affinity.
Spirits
Spirits
Is it common to Jace or teferi ultimate? Because I only see one entreat, colonnades, snaps and one clique as other ways to win. Without the ability to eat their hand you'd have to fight every bolt push and path to get there with these guys.
So is it mostly jtms ultimate or entreat miracle ?
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
It doesn't really matter which route to victory you take usually, once you've taken over the game there is often a few options to choose from. I would say most often it's Colonnade beats, but ulting a planeswalker is a fine route to take as well. Opponents who understand what is going on will often concede in paper, but they usually try to eat up your clock online. It can be pretty obvious when they are trying to eat your clock and at that point you just need to choose a route and execute it ASAP, they often just draw, play a land to make it look like they are playing, and pass the turn.
I play mostly friendly leagues on mtgo.
1) people concede before I win in 10 turns
2) Jace ult
3) collonade/creature damage
4) teferis ult
5) timing people out
6) decking people with teferi
I probably should look to win more with colonnade, but when I have 1-2 walkers going I don't feel like getting blown out by removal.
I know the hot keys really well so I can play really fast. I normally am ahead on time against most of my opponents even the aggro ones.
With miracles the snap value is like opt or telling time which is only good if youre digging for certain things (jace, teferi, entreat... maybe clique)
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Regarding Miracles, I mean of course no one objects to a one mana board wipe. Nassif's issue was that he felt it was too poor when actually hardcast to be worth the tradeoff, as far as I could tell from his article. It's like, do you want a 1 or a 10, or just a 6 all the time?
Fundamentally, since Modern is about doing broken things, I think you are supposed to ride the variance and play (pray?) for the Miracle, but it's also hard to argue with Gabriel Nassif on things control. Not sure if there is a "Truth" here, but thought it might be a good discussion topic.