Early testing for Mycosynth Lattice / Karn has been positive. The winning numbers aren't there which is discouraging, but I'm intuiting a better future.
The first iterations of the build showcase 8 rabbles. I am trying a thinned out, turbo build with lots of filter/loot to get to the power lock suite and the new hammer blow: karn-lattice. I'll refine a bit more and then share a decklist.
@slowgod - yeah, it's here. R/W Prison is not competitive, and Lattice-Karn doesn't give an extra dimension. It's just more of the same. So, I wouldn't chase that dragon. I don't know the Tron decks all that well (as a pilot), but I will say that Karn shreds 'em up (as an opponent).
@eriksfynn: red decks are totally hosed by London Mulligan. First, they themselves can't benefit by a lowered hand count. They need card count to overwhelm. Second, they lose out by decks that can better search/mull for ideal hands. BUT, we are NOT a 'red' deck.
@Skia_AoP: Nice to see your face around the campfire again. Your analysis? Smile. Agree.
The Great London Mulligan Caper ends tomorrow on MTGO
That is good news for Karn-Pyro Prison decks, so let's read all about it! Headline: Combo decks benefited in the era of the London mulligan, and Karn, the great creator / mycosynth Lattice is a painfully slow Combo.
Thus far, we have seen this combo as an overlay on an 8-Rabble construction. I wonder. Were the mechanics of 8-Rabble (Goblin Gun) ever designed for Planeswalker-6-cmc deployment? Consider Pascal Classen's list of 8-Rabble, and his novel changes: Dismembers/Abrades and No Sweepers.
Dismembers go Under He went faster. Leaner. More punishing. Attrition Style.
Karn? He goes Over. Slower. Win conditions come AFTER the locked board.
Rabbles are NOT a lock. They are an upward trending attack that reaches critical mass unto themselves. At no point, do you slow the attack, and then say "Time to drop a 4-drop Planeswalker that does ZERO game-state impact, so that next turn I can deliver a completely off-axis win condition." Nevertheless, I follow Caligula's logic: press with the Rabbles. Either they get the job done, OR you're opponent is spent trying to repel their swarm AND you switch to a tactic they're not expecting.
My concern is that the approaches aren't complementary. Although, I do recognize the 'toolbox wishing' advantage.
So, I have been trying a NEW APPROACH: Trash Dragon-esque
Filter/Loot
Mana Acceleration
4 Rabblemasters only and 0 Eidolons
Top Heavy CMC Mana Ramp
I got a 4-1 last league and am 2-0 right now. I'll wait for tomorrow, before jumping in the ring again. I'm not getting Neoform out by a counterfeit strategy. That deck dies at Midnight tonight. Busy with work today/tonight, but will put up the decklist soon.
@Skia_AoP: Nice to see your face around the campfire again. Your analysis? Smile. Agree.
I'm always reading. Not so much talking... ha.
Also, my Fridays haven't been FNM's in awhile unfortunately as I can't get out to my LGS on Friday's anymore. So I've been playing a lot of practice games and no real games for a long while.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My current modern paper decks with current match records since 02/01/17:
Hey everyone!I am new here and you can call me Slug. I am just about finished with this deck (missing 2 gemstone caverns and a bridge) I can't wait to play it as I love to play both blood moon and chalices. I have played Skred as my first modern deck for a while then built E-tron to chalice people. Since then I have been playing R/g Ponza and have been enjoying my Moons. Now I am ready to just straight up lock people out of playing magic. Just a quick question for you guys is there a pyro prison discord as that would be easier for me to be on. Also I am glad to see this forum with plenty of very useful info on the deck and it's variations.
Hey everyone!I am new here and you can call me Slug. I am just about finished with this deck (missing 2 gemstone caverns and a bridge) I can't wait to play it as I love to play both blood moon and chalices. I have played Skred as my first modern deck for a while then built E-tron to chalice people. Since then I have been playing R/g Ponza and have been enjoying my Moons. Now I am ready to just straight up lock people out of playing magic. Just a quick question for you guys is there a pyro prison discord as that would be easier for me to be on. Also I am glad to see this forum with plenty of very useful info on the deck and it's variations.
There is a Discord but the link that has been posted here doesn't work. It isn't an invite link so it just takes you to Discord home page instead of bringing you into the server for Pyro Prison... So Raystack will have to post an invite link so you can join.
Also, can I see your Ponza list? I play it as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My current modern paper decks with current match records since 02/01/17:
Cue the Music!
"When you wish upon a Karn...."
you usually win
That's certainly been the trend lately. Caligula did his 8-Rabble Karn list, and then joined MTGO for the first time. Despite some user/clerical errors in interfacing since he's brand new, he is slamming down 4-1s. I've got a few with varying versions, and Fluffy did a few minor tweaks and erupted into a 15-0 run on Competitive Modern MODO. Outstanding.
How can one even dare to tinker with a list that is seemingly already perfect? Well, right from the outset, I saw a different path. And, there was friggen' trash strewn all over it along with footprints from a....dragon. Couldn't be! Yup, 'Trash Dragons' fly again! Here's my list from 6 months ago:
Trash Dragons -- No Littering? Ain't nobody got time for that! This deck is pretty far from 'green'. Red is rummage, scry, loot, discard, and exile. This deck runs hard ritual counts and a very high 4-cmc ramp since those cards are the most impactful - note the use of Z. Void in the land count. This deck is terrific at locating and deploying threats at a high expense of card economy. That can be excellent against unfair decks, but terrible against counterspell or fair decks since they will punish you for being light on threats. Nonetheless, this might be the most fun Pyro Prison deck to pilot.
Find and deploy the right tool for the job as fast as possible, and recycle the redundant/unneeded cards into win conditions. Whereas 8-Rabble plows ahead on a linear line of a swelling horde - often shifting a resource burst into a power lock along the way - Trash Dragons runs a very threat-light build, but explodes faster and digs deeper.
When I saw Karn - Toolbox, pardon me: 'Wishbox'. I saw a greater advantage to the concept of Hot Air. The real disadvantage with Trash Dragons is when you draw too many 'turbo arrows' on the racetrack, but not enough meaningful spells. This refers to Hot Air: Rituals and Looting Spells. But, with Karn, I can always have the perfect sideboard card for the next turn (and, if he doesn't die, another turn as well). Like Chandra, he is an adaptable X-for-1.
Well, did the theorizing prove successful? It did. Not 15-0 successful, and it's still evolving. So, let's take a look:
“Remember the moral of the fireslinger fable: with power comes isolation.”
—Karn, silver golem
Behind the Player - A History of why I chose Pyro Prison - (Skip to red text if you'd like to get to the Pyro Prison content)
You may be wondering, why are we approaching my history within this community? This has been talked about Ad Nauseum on my stream, but let me Bring to Light why maybe red decks have been my Beck // Call. Why maybe I'm simply a Dragonmaster Outcast though I'll admit I try to have a Cryptic Command over "U" (Blue) decks. There may be an Ancient Grudge about the banning of Birthing Pod that made my decisions tough. So let's Rally the Ancestors in due Collected Company for a little reading of the Martial Law and pass the Knowledge Pool of why FluffyWolf settles to not be an Eternal Witness to his Primal Command of Green, nor Blue, nor White, nor Black. Let me tell you, why of all cards, I like Blood Moon, but... first... Backt o Basics.
In 2012, I returned to magic. This was after Return to Ravnica where I built a BW Exalted Deck, which I believe I still have at least the 60 maybe even the 75 saved off of what I played. I entered my first local tournament, and although I did not win I remember beating one of the top players after exalted triggers, Rancor, and Ajani, Caller of the Pride. I took this, and made the hasty swap to include some Restoration Angel in the deck for a GP. I did poorly. I obtained the playmat I hold cherished to me, and then I read up on Melissa Detora's Wolfrun Bant deck. I built it, I was struck, and Bant has been my thing since day one.
I explored and played heavily in Standard. Rotations came and this 'must rebuy cards' was eating at me. I am a man of investments, this format did not fit me. I explored into Modern, found a reddit post, and bought Scapeshift. I had read how powerful Cryptic Command was, I really liked the Lands Legacy deck, and was proficient at combo-control. I skipped over Birthing Pod as the deck, for cost reasons at the time. I knew I'd get that deck soon, but I needed to get into the format to see if I wanted to be that way.
I returned briefly to standard as Modern had not picked up enough in our area. KTK brought about the time where I carried two decks, Jeskai for Standard & RUG Scapeshift for Modern. Keep in mind I initially started my more competitive side as BW and Bant, but if you take me all the way back to when I began... I had things like Volcanic Dragon, Crimson Hellkite, I thought Firestorm Hellkite looked awesome and thought Jokulhaups was one of the strongest cards I had (Ice Age printing please). I also had a thing for equipment, specifically the Kaldra series. Big green creatures were obviously powerful, and the finer things of Tokens interested me (My first commander was Ghave, Guru of Spores) you can call me a "Junk" player, thank you. If you actually asked me, Bant, and Junk are some of my favorite combinations, but there was something missing, was it "Blue"?
Here I am, running Jeskai and RUG Scapeshift, and boy when Dig through Time showed up I knew what I was missing. Remember that I mentioned I wanted to play Pod, and the ban hammer was upon us. Regret, I missed out on the toolbox, what is this? Bring to Light yes! What was my favorite deck currently? Legacy Taxes, give me that Rishanda Port but not because it was oppressive to the opponent, no... because it required extensive knowledge of the decks your opponents were playing. You had to know their deck just as much as yours.
I explore options, I play Rally Fenza deck to a Top 8 and finish First. I explored Free Win Red, and the idea of controlling and locking my opponent out was great. The Chalice of the Void being on 1 or 2, but, I needed to know more about my opponents. It was also too slow. Scapeshift... Narset Cannon... Omnithragdoor was back in the day... Wolfrun Bant... Rally Fenza... BTL Scapeshift... Green Devotion Combo... During my development of Green Devotion combo, I noticed that time walking my opponent for a turn by picking their most useful land was amazing... what if they just couldn't use that land period? I stumble back to FWR, something told me this deck was more, that there was more power here, the meta and people over all these years were so greedy, I knew this, a Scapeshift player, everyone was at 18, 15, or even less. I found this community. I knew the power of a T3 Rabblemaster in Standard, how many times did I play Mantis Rider or Goblin Rabblemaster to hear my opponent go "Yep... that's a Mantis..." "Yep... that's a Rabblemaster..."
Reading... reading... T1 Blood Moon - Most would be sold on this. T1 Rabblemaster! - Most would be sold on this... Below, is what sold me on this.
A "Sideboard Deck" doesn't have a bad matchup . Owing to our reactive nature, we are best suited to defeat linear, singularly focused decks. When pitted against opponents who also seek to control and overwhelm with selective denial and card advantage, our shrewd use of pro-active win conditions shine. Important Note: we are already partially 'pre-sideboarded' against our opponents in game 1, and then adapt into a full-on Bad Matchup for them after sideboarding. Opponents, on the other hand, rarely have a favorable Game 1 matchup against Red Prison, because they are building against Tier 1 decks. Even worse for them, their sideboards will typically blank on answers. Sure, they'll have some Affinity hate which applies to us as well, but otherwise Pyro Prison is very difficult to sideboard against.
...
Did you catch it? We are a Pre-Boarded deck. Many are going to say that's great. I see a mathematical problem to solve that is ever changing but pits your statistical odds in favor of your own pre-preparation, build, and understanding of your deck, and (check mark) the decks of the meta and format. Bingo, I could now understand all decks in the format that I chose. And as an aside, you will hear so many people tell us how terrible this deck is, how awful and how no skill is required. There may be the concept of 'auto-pilot' but I'll be damned if someone will tell me my preparation into the deck is not without some level of skill or effort.
I've built spreadsheets and done top 25 deck analysis to determine when prompted with the option to play any of our locks on T1, which statistically is the best, which mathematically hits the most decks, which will give me the best chance of winning. That pre-effort makes the mulligan choices simplistic at times and horrifically difficult at others, and yet my opponents at times will rant on about the lack of skill to play the deck. My friend, if only you knew the equations, stats, and other info I did. The test is easy, I make it look easy, I just did my homework beforehand... did you?
What have I check-marked now in my needs for a deck? Why was this likely the deck for me?
[x] - Competitive when built correctly (this can be said for everyone's decks that do well)
[x] - Required meta knowledge (not just knowing how to play your deck)
[x] - Tickles that inner Johnny combo, that token enjoyment, and feels inherently powerful
[x] - Fits in the realm of more Combo, Control, Midrange - You'll notice I am terrible at Aggro.
[x] - Not one dimensional - This may be my issue sometimes with aggro
[x] - Combo - Let me explain this one a step further. If you've watched you'll notice if I can find multi-card interactions this works wonders for me. Teferi & Knowledge Pool. - Rally Fenza & Graveyard with Persist Creatures, Scapeshift/Lands/Math, Bridge/Chalice/+Lock Piece. My combo is nomrmally assembling an unbeatable strategy. The pure adrenaline rush to getting there is... yep, awesome! If my opponent realizes an interaction that is going on I feel 1: I've taught my opponent something which is awesome 2: Gives me some pride that I have a depth of game knowledge aiding me with being a better magic player. (Notice this is a rather big checkbox, but I thought I'd explain it cause it essentially explains why the piece below fits in perfectly).
[ ] - Toolbox Deck and "Options" during gameplay - I missed Dig through Time, and unfortunately Pod was banned and BTL was not competitive... hmmm... Chord of Calling Decks? These have tempted me for so long.
Skip here if you are into more about Pyro Prison and less into FluffyWolf2
Redefinition of a Synonymous Card
Karn - When spoken in the world of Magic meant "Tron" and with "Tron" meant "Turn 3 Tron" - Groan. Newer players did not understand than learning the ability to cast a 7 Mana Spell that literally has on the text the ability to restart the game, awestruck.
Karn - The defining terminology to the Eldrazi. The keeper of Ulamog, the Buddy of Ugin, and owning a pet of Wurmcoil.
Karn - Tower... Mine... Plant...
Karn - An Anti Artifact Card. A Utility. Perhaps not dawning the Wizard who slings the spell and carries the back of the deck on his shoulders, but no... perhaps instead the Planeswalker providing foresight into the realm beyond, the sideboard, and expanding your deck to beyond the 60 with the efficiency of the 60.
Karn - Once synonyms with Tron, may soon be Synonymous with Toolbox, or... Maybe synonymous with Prison.
“Everything the wise woman learned she wrote in a book, and when the pages were black with ink, she took white ink and began again.” —Karn, silver golem
Once was a household name to one particular archetype has now been broken of the mold. Time will tell how long Karn, the Great Creator expands his ever reaching hand, but keep this in mind, he is certainly shaping modern as we speak.
Red Prison - Today
There has been quite the shake-up in Modern. I'll dare say that even those among us would indicate Blood Moon is bad. Perhaps even magic planeswalkers have more foresight then we give them credit?
“The tides have begun to ignore the moon.” —Tamiyo’s journal
Either way, Red Decks are some of, if not THE most powerful cards in Modern at the moment. UR Phoenix, Storm, Burn, Hollow One, Dredge (The Red cards tend to finish it), GDS, Jund & Affinity have their smattering of them, even Mardu was prevalent, and let us not forget our good friend Ponza and Scapeshift/Titan Shift. Certainly, there are others on the rise, but you cannot deny Red has power and backing. So where do we fit?
Modern is extremely fast, we as a Prison deck restrict powerful decks from executing their plan 'on time' we slow the game down but in a restrict manner compared to control which seeks to control within the moment of spells, we simply seek to control the game itself. With the expanse of modern though, this becomes extremely difficult, and if we do not adapt and learn, we may be just like our fiery red head planeswalker.
“I see you’ve learned nothing, Chandra. You’d still put a match to something rather than understand it.”
But we shouldn't be alarmed, in fact, we have a great following here to iterate the game plays and optimize the deck. We abound on our vast knowledge, past experiences, and the legacy of this deck to determine new lines, but we welcome all brought into our community for the fresh eyes.
“We are kinfolk,” explained Karn to the sliver queen. “Just as you need your progeny to complete you, so do I need the pieces of the Legacy to make me whole.”
Toolbox - Something Different
Let me be the first to say this is going to be a challenge for many here. Toolbox decks are not accustomed to red players necessarily. Maybe the graveyard, maybe something with artifacts, but not toolbox. Some will play this deck to no end and have no luck, and others will dominate and find it steps from a perfect middle ground of exactly enough power and just enough edge. We will define the premises of a toolbox, and the initial 'how do I sideboard' here.
“Optimists see the world as they wish it to be. Pessimists see the world as it is. Must these roles be mutually exclusive?” —Evo Ragus
What is a Toolbox Deck
A toolbox deck utilizes tutors. In tutoring the player is given the option to find pieces necessary or deemed correct in a situation to further their gameplan. Typical tutor based decks in modern include cards like Chord of Calling, Summoner's Pack, Whir of Invention and Inventor's Fair, Mystical Teachings, Glittering Wish, Bring to Light and Tolaria West to name a few. Depending on the instantaneous nature of the tutored card determines the strategy to imply in your thought process when obtaining a card.
How a Toolbox Deck Sideboards
This one is difficult, and always be. There will be arguments in both camps to 'maintain your toolbox' and others to say 'your toolbox does not matter, go with gameplan B.' We must remember what our Gameplan A was prior to any toolbox action, and determine if Gameplan A was better then technically our Toolbox B plan. What do I mean with this?
When evaluating your cards, determine if a T3 Karn fetching what you need will help you. You will likely play that card on T4, and will you be dead? Here we are, if you read from the beginning you will have at least heard me say "Modern is a Turn 4 format" somewhere. This holds true to our beefy 4 Walker tutor. Not factoring London/Vancouver mulligan, deciding if the deck is 'slow enough' that is your opponent to warrant the toolbox may be critical to victories or losses. Let me provide an example.
Humans - Although you may say "3 Karn, YES! I have "3 More Bridges" in my deck" - Do you really? How many have lost to a T2 Thalia. Now your Karn is a T5 Karn, your Bridge is a T6 Bridge, and you're not playing efficient spells to ritual out your Karn quickly. T6 - T7, bridge good enough? Maybe if you board wipe, so leave it in, if you have more spot removal or minimal removal, maybe not. On this decision point you can decide, do I look for and bring in and 'neglect my sideboard toolbox' or do I split the difference.
This will be determined on playstyle - Which I hate to say, but is true.
If you see the deck in one light, or another, you will naturally mullgain in a certain fashion. Here I would likely tell you to drop 2 Karn, drop the package all together for a Bridge/Torpor Orb - but consider leaving a chalice out or consider leaving spellskite out. You may do the reverse where you bring in the torpor orb and the bridges and spellskite, and neglect Karn also - Both of these are correct. Both of these will come down to the mulligan, and BOTH of these will come down to your understanding of your opponents deck.
I'll have more on this later, maybe, maybe I'll do a video, maybe I won't have time, maybe maybe. I want to leave you this though that the deck is powerful, it is doing powerful things, but will be very frustrating to many people initially. Just like the learning curve initially of Pyro Prison, this is a new learning curve. Don't be frustrated immediately if it doesn't work, but find if it does work. Keep in mind original Pyro Prison is just as powerful, and don't be discouraged. We have a lot going on in Modern right now, we'll see how War of Spark and Modern Horizon's shake things up! Till then, sling spells Kinfolk!
Rarely have we heard so much debate on topic of LAND COUNT: 21 or 22 or 23?
Rituals - Lands - 4-CMC Count....
Where once Pyro Prison was a 'Tale of 2 Decks' and the hope to not draw the Wrong Half was a real concern (Aggro/Control or maybe a total whiff on 'Hot Air' cards like Rituals only). Now?
Now, it's totally fractured due to Karn. I can not emphasize it enough: Dig/Loot/Scry. The win is only 1 drawn card away.
Easiest way to start with an 8-Card hand? Zhalfirin Void
Look at this Opening Hand.
Would you Keep it?
Would you Keep it if the Z-Voids were Mountains?
Or Scavenging Grounds/Cavern of Souls/Blast Zone.....
I´ve been a silent reader of this thread for over two years now, and I’ve been playing pyro prison for about year and a half, and I’ve just now decided that I should get more involved in it and maybe actually post something because, well, to be honest I’m just that excited about trying out Karn, the Great Creator in the deck. So I made myself an account for the forums and here I am.
I´ve never played the deck competitively thought. You see, I live in South America in a country where the magic community is small and spread, and there´s not a lot of competitive tournaments, and even when there are some, they´re not that big.
Yet, I´m lucky to live in a city where modern is all they play and the local metagame is varied enough to make it both fun and a somewhat relevant learning experience for prison players.
There´s at least one of each deck you´d expect to see in a big tournament: Green Tron, Phoenix, Humans, Control, Dredge, GDS, Amulet Titan, both Scales and classic Afinity, Burn, and different GBx decks, amongst some others like Boggles, Ponza, Eldrazi Tron, Merefolk, Grisel-shoal, Taxes, and even Cheerios. It´s all there. And the players are regular enough that I get to see all the decks often. So, of course I play my prison deck once or twice a week, always twitching something and trying to learn from it.
Anyways I was in a small semi-competitive tournament this weekend, or at least as competitive as we get down here, and I went with the Karn Toolbox list. Specifically, a modified version of Fluffywolf´s list, which I found by accident while scrolling down through some 5-0 lists from MODO, and I wanted to contribute with a short tournament report and then some afterthoughts. I´m having a hard time with the formating thought, so I´ll leave it at this for now and I´ll come back with it when it´s ready.
Oh, and also, thanks to all the people who contribute to this thread. It´s been a great resource every time. Thought I should say so the first time I wrote something here.
The first iterations of the build showcase 8 rabbles. I am trying a thinned out, turbo build with lots of filter/loot to get to the power lock suite and the new hammer blow: karn-lattice. I'll refine a bit more and then share a decklist.
@slowgod - yeah, it's here. R/W Prison is not competitive, and Lattice-Karn doesn't give an extra dimension. It's just more of the same. So, I wouldn't chase that dragon. I don't know the Tron decks all that well (as a pilot), but I will say that Karn shreds 'em up (as an opponent).
@eriksfynn: red decks are totally hosed by London Mulligan. First, they themselves can't benefit by a lowered hand count. They need card count to overwhelm. Second, they lose out by decks that can better search/mull for ideal hands. BUT, we are NOT a 'red' deck.
@Skia_AoP: Nice to see your face around the campfire again. Your analysis? Smile. Agree.
That is good news for Karn-Pyro Prison decks, so let's read all about it! Headline: Combo decks benefited in the era of the London mulligan, and Karn, the great creator / mycosynth Lattice is a painfully slow Combo.
Thus far, we have seen this combo as an overlay on an 8-Rabble construction. I wonder. Were the mechanics of 8-Rabble (Goblin Gun) ever designed for Planeswalker-6-cmc deployment? Consider Pascal Classen's list of 8-Rabble, and his novel changes: Dismembers/Abrades and No Sweepers.
Dismembers go Under He went faster. Leaner. More punishing. Attrition Style.
Karn? He goes Over. Slower. Win conditions come AFTER the locked board.
Rabbles are NOT a lock. They are an upward trending attack that reaches critical mass unto themselves. At no point, do you slow the attack, and then say "Time to drop a 4-drop Planeswalker that does ZERO game-state impact, so that next turn I can deliver a completely off-axis win condition." Nevertheless, I follow Caligula's logic: press with the Rabbles. Either they get the job done, OR you're opponent is spent trying to repel their swarm AND you switch to a tactic they're not expecting.
My concern is that the approaches aren't complementary. Although, I do recognize the 'toolbox wishing' advantage.
So, I have been trying a NEW APPROACH: Trash Dragon-esque
I'm always reading. Not so much talking... ha.
Also, my Fridays haven't been FNM's in awhile unfortunately as I can't get out to my LGS on Friday's anymore. So I've been playing a lot of practice games and no real games for a long while.
Dragon Stompy - R 11-6-0
Ponza - RG 8-4-0
Tron - BG 1-2-0
Naya Burn - WRG 2-4-0
Spirits - UW2-2-0
Dragons - R
There is a Discord but the link that has been posted here doesn't work. It isn't an invite link so it just takes you to Discord home page instead of bringing you into the server for Pyro Prison... So Raystack will have to post an invite link so you can join.
Also, can I see your Ponza list? I play it as well.
Dragon Stompy - R 11-6-0
Ponza - RG 8-4-0
Tron - BG 1-2-0
Naya Burn - WRG 2-4-0
Spirits - UW2-2-0
Dragons - R
Hah - When Ponza works, it's soooo oppressive.
Great name.
Thanks! Glad to be here.
Sure thing.
Thank you! Now I can join as well.
Post up a list! Here is mine: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/582752#paper
Dragon Stompy - R 11-6-0
Ponza - RG 8-4-0
Tron - BG 1-2-0
Naya Burn - WRG 2-4-0
Spirits - UW2-2-0
Dragons - R
Thanks. That is almost exactly what my mainboard looked like before Bloodbraid was unbanned.
Dragon Stompy - R 11-6-0
Ponza - RG 8-4-0
Tron - BG 1-2-0
Naya Burn - WRG 2-4-0
Spirits - UW2-2-0
Dragons - R
"When you wish upon a Karn...."
you usually win
That's certainly been the trend lately. Caligula did his 8-Rabble Karn list, and then joined MTGO for the first time. Despite some user/clerical errors in interfacing since he's brand new, he is slamming down 4-1s. I've got a few with varying versions, and Fluffy did a few minor tweaks and erupted into a 15-0 run on Competitive Modern MODO. Outstanding.
How can one even dare to tinker with a list that is seemingly already perfect? Well, right from the outset, I saw a different path. And, there was friggen' trash strewn all over it along with footprints from a....dragon. Couldn't be! Yup, 'Trash Dragons' fly again! Here's my list from 6 months ago:
Trash Dragons -- No Littering? Ain't nobody got time for that! This deck is pretty far from 'green'. Red is rummage, scry, loot, discard, and exile. This deck runs hard ritual counts and a very high 4-cmc ramp since those cards are the most impactful - note the use of Z. Void in the land count. This deck is terrific at locating and deploying threats at a high expense of card economy. That can be excellent against unfair decks, but terrible against counterspell or fair decks since they will punish you for being light on threats. Nonetheless, this might be the most fun Pyro Prison deck to pilot.
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (6)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Avaricious Dragon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Planeswalkers (6)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Sarkhan, Fireblood
Removal (3)
1 Abrade
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
1 Faithless Looting
1 Collective Defiance
Lands (21)
15 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Zhalfirin Void
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Damping Matrix
2 Torpor Orb
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Abrade
1 Spellskite
1 Hazoret the Fervent
So, what's the big idea? Streamlining.
When I saw Karn - Toolbox, pardon me: 'Wishbox'. I saw a greater advantage to the concept of Hot Air. The real disadvantage with Trash Dragons is when you draw too many 'turbo arrows' on the racetrack, but not enough meaningful spells. This refers to Hot Air: Rituals and Looting Spells. But, with Karn, I can always have the perfect sideboard card for the next turn (and, if he doesn't die, another turn as well). Like Chandra, he is an adaptable X-for-1.
Well, did the theorizing prove successful? It did. Not 15-0 successful, and it's still evolving. So, let's take a look:
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Karn, the Great Creator
POWER LOCK SUITE (10)
4 Blood Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
CREATURES (7)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Legion Warboss
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
UTILITY (4)
2 Slagstorm
1 Collective Defiance
1 Abrade
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Pyretic Ritual
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Faithless Looting
LANDS (21)
13 Mountain
2 Ramunap Ruins
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Zhalfirin Void
1 Blast Zone
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Walking Ballista
1 Welding Jar
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Torpor Orb
1 Spellskite
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Magus of the Moon
Behind the Player - A History of why I chose Pyro Prison - (Skip to red text if you'd like to get to the Pyro Prison content)
You may be wondering, why are we approaching my history within this community? This has been talked about Ad Nauseum on my stream, but let me Bring to Light why maybe red decks have been my Beck // Call. Why maybe I'm simply a Dragonmaster Outcast though I'll admit I try to have a Cryptic Command over "U" (Blue) decks. There may be an Ancient Grudge about the banning of Birthing Pod that made my decisions tough. So let's Rally the Ancestors in due Collected Company for a little reading of the Martial Law and pass the Knowledge Pool of why FluffyWolf settles to not be an Eternal Witness to his Primal Command of Green, nor Blue, nor White, nor Black. Let me tell you, why of all cards, I like Blood Moon, but... first... Backt o Basics.
In 2012, I returned to magic. This was after Return to Ravnica where I built a BW Exalted Deck, which I believe I still have at least the 60 maybe even the 75 saved off of what I played. I entered my first local tournament, and although I did not win I remember beating one of the top players after exalted triggers, Rancor, and Ajani, Caller of the Pride. I took this, and made the hasty swap to include some Restoration Angel in the deck for a GP. I did poorly. I obtained the playmat I hold cherished to me, and then I read up on Melissa Detora's Wolfrun Bant deck. I built it, I was struck, and Bant has been my thing since day one.
3 Aven Squire
4 Knight of Glory
4 Knight of Infamy
4 Sublime Archangel
Utility Creatures
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
3 Ultimate Price
Utility Spells
4 Lingering Souls
2 Oblivion Ring
Double Strike Utility
3 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
4 Silverblade Paladin
1-2 Cathedral of War
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated CHapel
12 Plains
3 Swamps
I explored and played heavily in Standard. Rotations came and this 'must rebuy cards' was eating at me. I am a man of investments, this format did not fit me. I explored into Modern, found a reddit post, and bought Scapeshift. I had read how powerful Cryptic Command was, I really liked the Lands Legacy deck, and was proficient at combo-control. I skipped over Birthing Pod as the deck, for cost reasons at the time. I knew I'd get that deck soon, but I needed to get into the format to see if I wanted to be that way.
I returned briefly to standard as Modern had not picked up enough in our area. KTK brought about the time where I carried two decks, Jeskai for Standard & RUG Scapeshift for Modern. Keep in mind I initially started my more competitive side as BW and Bant, but if you take me all the way back to when I began... I had things like Volcanic Dragon, Crimson Hellkite, I thought Firestorm Hellkite looked awesome and thought Jokulhaups was one of the strongest cards I had (Ice Age printing please). I also had a thing for equipment, specifically the Kaldra series. Big green creatures were obviously powerful, and the finer things of Tokens interested me (My first commander was Ghave, Guru of Spores) you can call me a "Junk" player, thank you. If you actually asked me, Bant, and Junk are some of my favorite combinations, but there was something missing, was it "Blue"?
Here I am, running Jeskai and RUG Scapeshift, and boy when Dig through Time showed up I knew what I was missing. Remember that I mentioned I wanted to play Pod, and the ban hammer was upon us. Regret, I missed out on the toolbox, what is this? Bring to Light yes! What was my favorite deck currently? Legacy Taxes, give me that Rishanda Port but not because it was oppressive to the opponent, no... because it required extensive knowledge of the decks your opponents were playing. You had to know their deck just as much as yours.
I explore options, I play Rally Fenza deck to a Top 8 and finish First. I explored Free Win Red, and the idea of controlling and locking my opponent out was great. The Chalice of the Void being on 1 or 2, but, I needed to know more about my opponents. It was also too slow. Scapeshift... Narset Cannon... Omnithragdoor was back in the day... Wolfrun Bant... Rally Fenza... BTL Scapeshift... Green Devotion Combo... During my development of Green Devotion combo, I noticed that time walking my opponent for a turn by picking their most useful land was amazing... what if they just couldn't use that land period? I stumble back to FWR, something told me this deck was more, that there was more power here, the meta and people over all these years were so greedy, I knew this, a Scapeshift player, everyone was at 18, 15, or even less. I found this community. I knew the power of a T3 Rabblemaster in Standard, how many times did I play Mantis Rider or Goblin Rabblemaster to hear my opponent go "Yep... that's a Mantis..." "Yep... that's a Rabblemaster..."
Reading... reading... T1 Blood Moon - Most would be sold on this. T1 Rabblemaster! - Most would be sold on this... Below, is what sold me on this.
Did you catch it? We are a Pre-Boarded deck. Many are going to say that's great. I see a mathematical problem to solve that is ever changing but pits your statistical odds in favor of your own pre-preparation, build, and understanding of your deck, and (check mark) the decks of the meta and format. Bingo, I could now understand all decks in the format that I chose. And as an aside, you will hear so many people tell us how terrible this deck is, how awful and how no skill is required. There may be the concept of 'auto-pilot' but I'll be damned if someone will tell me my preparation into the deck is not without some level of skill or effort.
What have I check-marked now in my needs for a deck? Why was this likely the deck for me?
[x] - Competitive when built correctly (this can be said for everyone's decks that do well)
[x] - Required meta knowledge (not just knowing how to play your deck)
[x] - Tickles that inner Johnny combo, that token enjoyment, and feels inherently powerful
[x] - Fits in the realm of more Combo, Control, Midrange - You'll notice I am terrible at Aggro.
[x] - Not one dimensional - This may be my issue sometimes with aggro
[x] - Combo - Let me explain this one a step further. If you've watched you'll notice if I can find multi-card interactions this works wonders for me. Teferi & Knowledge Pool. - Rally Fenza & Graveyard with Persist Creatures, Scapeshift/Lands/Math, Bridge/Chalice/+Lock Piece. My combo is nomrmally assembling an unbeatable strategy. The pure adrenaline rush to getting there is... yep, awesome! If my opponent realizes an interaction that is going on I feel 1: I've taught my opponent something which is awesome 2: Gives me some pride that I have a depth of game knowledge aiding me with being a better magic player. (Notice this is a rather big checkbox, but I thought I'd explain it cause it essentially explains why the piece below fits in perfectly).
[ ] - Toolbox Deck and "Options" during gameplay - I missed Dig through Time, and unfortunately Pod was banned and BTL was not competitive... hmmm... Chord of Calling Decks? These have tempted me for so long.
Redefinition of a Synonymous Card
Karn - When spoken in the world of Magic meant "Tron" and with "Tron" meant "Turn 3 Tron" - Groan. Newer players did not understand than learning the ability to cast a 7 Mana Spell that literally has on the text the ability to restart the game, awestruck.
Karn - The defining terminology to the Eldrazi. The keeper of Ulamog, the Buddy of Ugin, and owning a pet of Wurmcoil.
Karn - Tower... Mine... Plant...
Karn - An Anti Artifact Card. A Utility. Perhaps not dawning the Wizard who slings the spell and carries the back of the deck on his shoulders, but no... perhaps instead the Planeswalker providing foresight into the realm beyond, the sideboard, and expanding your deck to beyond the 60 with the efficiency of the 60.
Karn - Once synonyms with Tron, may soon be Synonymous with Toolbox, or... Maybe synonymous with Prison.
Once was a household name to one particular archetype has now been broken of the mold. Time will tell how long Karn, the Great Creator expands his ever reaching hand, but keep this in mind, he is certainly shaping modern as we speak.
Red Prison - Today
There has been quite the shake-up in Modern. I'll dare say that even those among us would indicate Blood Moon is bad. Perhaps even magic planeswalkers have more foresight then we give them credit?
Either way, Red Decks are some of, if not THE most powerful cards in Modern at the moment. UR Phoenix, Storm, Burn, Hollow One, Dredge (The Red cards tend to finish it), GDS, Jund & Affinity have their smattering of them, even Mardu was prevalent, and let us not forget our good friend Ponza and Scapeshift/Titan Shift. Certainly, there are others on the rise, but you cannot deny Red has power and backing. So where do we fit?
Modern is extremely fast, we as a Prison deck restrict powerful decks from executing their plan 'on time' we slow the game down but in a restrict manner compared to control which seeks to control within the moment of spells, we simply seek to control the game itself. With the expanse of modern though, this becomes extremely difficult, and if we do not adapt and learn, we may be just like our fiery red head planeswalker.
But we shouldn't be alarmed, in fact, we have a great following here to iterate the game plays and optimize the deck. We abound on our vast knowledge, past experiences, and the legacy of this deck to determine new lines, but we welcome all brought into our community for the fresh eyes.
Toolbox - Something Different
Let me be the first to say this is going to be a challenge for many here. Toolbox decks are not accustomed to red players necessarily. Maybe the graveyard, maybe something with artifacts, but not toolbox. Some will play this deck to no end and have no luck, and others will dominate and find it steps from a perfect middle ground of exactly enough power and just enough edge. We will define the premises of a toolbox, and the initial 'how do I sideboard' here.
What is a Toolbox Deck
A toolbox deck utilizes tutors. In tutoring the player is given the option to find pieces necessary or deemed correct in a situation to further their gameplan. Typical tutor based decks in modern include cards like Chord of Calling, Summoner's Pack, Whir of Invention and Inventor's Fair, Mystical Teachings, Glittering Wish, Bring to Light and Tolaria West to name a few. Depending on the instantaneous nature of the tutored card determines the strategy to imply in your thought process when obtaining a card.
How a Toolbox Deck Sideboards
This one is difficult, and always be. There will be arguments in both camps to 'maintain your toolbox' and others to say 'your toolbox does not matter, go with gameplan B.' We must remember what our Gameplan A was prior to any toolbox action, and determine if Gameplan A was better then technically our Toolbox B plan. What do I mean with this?
When evaluating your cards, determine if a T3 Karn fetching what you need will help you. You will likely play that card on T4, and will you be dead? Here we are, if you read from the beginning you will have at least heard me say "Modern is a Turn 4 format" somewhere. This holds true to our beefy 4 Walker tutor. Not factoring London/Vancouver mulligan, deciding if the deck is 'slow enough' that is your opponent to warrant the toolbox may be critical to victories or losses. Let me provide an example.
Humans - Although you may say "3 Karn, YES! I have "3 More Bridges" in my deck" - Do you really? How many have lost to a T2 Thalia. Now your Karn is a T5 Karn, your Bridge is a T6 Bridge, and you're not playing efficient spells to ritual out your Karn quickly. T6 - T7, bridge good enough? Maybe if you board wipe, so leave it in, if you have more spot removal or minimal removal, maybe not. On this decision point you can decide, do I look for and bring in and 'neglect my sideboard toolbox' or do I split the difference.
This will be determined on playstyle - Which I hate to say, but is true.
If you see the deck in one light, or another, you will naturally mullgain in a certain fashion. Here I would likely tell you to drop 2 Karn, drop the package all together for a Bridge/Torpor Orb - but consider leaving a chalice out or consider leaving spellskite out. You may do the reverse where you bring in the torpor orb and the bridges and spellskite, and neglect Karn also - Both of these are correct. Both of these will come down to the mulligan, and BOTH of these will come down to your understanding of your opponents deck.
I'll have more on this later, maybe, maybe I'll do a video, maybe I won't have time, maybe maybe. I want to leave you this though that the deck is powerful, it is doing powerful things, but will be very frustrating to many people initially. Just like the learning curve initially of Pyro Prison, this is a new learning curve. Don't be frustrated immediately if it doesn't work, but find if it does work. Keep in mind original Pyro Prison is just as powerful, and don't be discouraged. We have a lot going on in Modern right now, we'll see how War of Spark and Modern Horizon's shake things up! Till then, sling spells Kinfolk!
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Karn, the Great Creator
POWER LOCK SUITE (10)
4 Blood Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
CREATURES (9)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Legion Warboss
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
UTILITY (5)
2 Slagstorm
3 Abrade
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
LANDS (21)
11 Mountain
4 Ramunap Ruins
3 Gemstone Caverns
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Blast Zone
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Walking Ballista
1 Welding Jar
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Torpor Orb
1 Spellskite
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Mycosynth Lattice
https://www.streamdecker.com/deck/cjVSLMS_VX
Rituals - Lands - 4-CMC Count....
Where once Pyro Prison was a 'Tale of 2 Decks' and the hope to not draw the Wrong Half was a real concern (Aggro/Control or maybe a total whiff on 'Hot Air' cards like Rituals only). Now?
Now, it's totally fractured due to Karn. I can not emphasize it enough: Dig/Loot/Scry. The win is only 1 drawn card away.
Easiest way to start with an 8-Card hand?
Zhalfirin Void
Look at this Opening Hand.
Would you Keep it?
Would you Keep it if the Z-Voids were Mountains?
Or Scavenging Grounds/Cavern of Souls/Blast Zone.....
No. The ONLY reason this hand is keepable is Z.
Now, he’s writing the book on it.
I´ve been a silent reader of this thread for over two years now, and I’ve been playing pyro prison for about year and a half, and I’ve just now decided that I should get more involved in it and maybe actually post something because, well, to be honest I’m just that excited about trying out Karn, the Great Creator in the deck. So I made myself an account for the forums and here I am.
I´ve never played the deck competitively thought. You see, I live in South America in a country where the magic community is small and spread, and there´s not a lot of competitive tournaments, and even when there are some, they´re not that big.
Yet, I´m lucky to live in a city where modern is all they play and the local metagame is varied enough to make it both fun and a somewhat relevant learning experience for prison players.
There´s at least one of each deck you´d expect to see in a big tournament: Green Tron, Phoenix, Humans, Control, Dredge, GDS, Amulet Titan, both Scales and classic Afinity, Burn, and different GBx decks, amongst some others like Boggles, Ponza, Eldrazi Tron, Merefolk, Grisel-shoal, Taxes, and even Cheerios. It´s all there. And the players are regular enough that I get to see all the decks often. So, of course I play my prison deck once or twice a week, always twitching something and trying to learn from it.
Anyways I was in a small semi-competitive tournament this weekend, or at least as competitive as we get down here, and I went with the Karn Toolbox list. Specifically, a modified version of Fluffywolf´s list, which I found by accident while scrolling down through some 5-0 lists from MODO, and I wanted to contribute with a short tournament report and then some afterthoughts. I´m having a hard time with the formating thought, so I´ll leave it at this for now and I´ll come back with it when it´s ready.
Oh, and also, thanks to all the people who contribute to this thread. It´s been a great resource every time. Thought I should say so the first time I wrote something here.