Hey Stick (FAdvisor), could you explain your current side board strategy to me? We're basically the same, in a sense we have same cards, but our numbers differ some.
Ok guys I have a serious question. I mentioned recently on Discord that I've encountered 66 different archetypes in Modern in 2018 (now 67 after last night). I feel like I know the format pretty well. I went looking through 5-0 lists, I found a vexing one that not only has 1 5-0 but multiple by the same player.. So someone please explain WTFFF...
I played vs this deck during my last 5-0 . Take a look at my last twitch video or YouTube video and you'll see how it wins. Game one, they blow up their bridges with EE, then attack for a billion with an insane number of 5/5 dudes. Games two and three, sai comes in and wrecks face.
Hey Stick (FAdvisor), could you explain your current side board strategy to me? We're basically the same, in a sense we have same cards, but our numbers differ some.
That's what I did three times during the classic and I won all three of those matches. So, in almost every match, we'll have at least 4 automatic cards we need to bring out for better stuff. the only deck where I leave in rabblemasters AND bridges that I can think of is deaths shadow. That's one of those odd matches were literally everything we have lines up great against them except for the abrades and slagstorms.
If we need to go deeper into sideboard strategy, we can, but thats the basics. Assume what role you need to play and then sideboard into that role.
Now, onto more fund stuff.....Flame of Keld....you may have stumbled onto something genius here. I use Sarkhaan for looting and he's been GREAT. being able to cycle an extra moon for an actual card has proven to be super useful. Flame of keld can do that and empty your hand for a turn. Drawing three the next turn could be a problem if under a bridge, but that's a unique scenario. Firts, you need a bridge in play. then, you need to be facing creatures with power 2 or less. Last, yo need to draw three cards that you can't use. with 50% mana, chances are you are going to draw one or two lands/rituals and one/two spells, ending that turn with a single card in hand. I can totally see that being in my deck and replacing sarkhan. Costing two is also a big deal over costing three, especially when we turn one chandra into flame. Turn one chandra happens a lot more often than you think (well, maybe you know since your playing this deck), and turn one chandra into flame of keld helps reload after you just spend all the cards playing chandra. Yes, this needs to be tested and I'll behappy to do that. I think I'll try flame of keld over sarkhan in my next league and see how I do.
Pyro Prison....Ray named this deck, so I'll let him be the official word on why it's called that. Here's my opinion, but if Ray chimes in and says something different, then that's the reason. he is the Godfather after all!
So, Mono-Red Prison implies that we are a prison deck. We are NOT a prison deck. Yes, there are some games that we win using prison-like elements, but at our core, we are a perfect blend of aggro/control. the PYRO part in Pyro Prison implies our aggro nature. When we need to be, we abandon ship on the prison elements and turn into a full blown aggro deck using some prison-like cards to offer unique interactions. These are the decks where we side out prison cards like bridge. Examples are control, Big Tron, and Combo.
Vs other decks, we're a control deck, going all in on the "prison" strategy and leave the aggro at home. Vs these, we side out the aggro elements like rabblemaster in favor of more prison/interaction. Examples of this are bogles, humans, hollow-one, and affinity.
If you had to rate our deck on a scale of 1-10 in categories of Aggro and Control, We're probably a 5/10 on the aggro plan and a 5/10 on the control plan. In game two, depending on the match, we can dial up on one and down on the other. for example, UWx control will ALWAYS be a more controlling deck than ours, so we have to assume the aggro role there, embracing the "PYRO" part of our deck. Post board games, we tend to dial up the aggro to a 7-8 while dialing back the control to a 2-3. Vs affinity, we do the opposite. Here, we embrace the "PRISON" part of our deck and dial back the aggro to a 2-3 and dial up the control to a 7-8.
It is for these reasons above why we do not play white. White embraces the control role too much and doesn't have a good aggro plan. sure, vs decks where you want to be the control player, it's MUCH better, but vs decks where you need to assume the aggro role, it's MUCH worse because it doesn't have an aggro role. In those games, you are just playing a worse control deck than the opponent and will lose the vast majority of those matches.
It's also for these reasons that playing this deck will make you a "better magic player" (Trademark FluffyWolf). To get good at this deck, you have to understand bigger magic concepts than just....oh, this card is good here, i'm gonna bring it in. You need to understand "who's the beat down" ans assess how your STRATEGY aligns with the current match. This is why you see so many people winning events, 5-0 MTGO leagues, and just doing well with SO MANY DIFFERENT versions of the deck. Everyone who put up results with this deck has done it in their own way because they all understood that it's not about the cards....it's about understanding your specific strategy and playing accordingly. I made a LOT of play errors when I made Top 4 of the Open in December, but my strategy for each match was sound and, despite not playing optimally, i was able to win.
I know i went off on a really long tangent here, so back to the original question....why Pyro Prison? Because there are two halfs to this deck and depending on the match will depend on which side of the name you will embrace.
Russ
Until I came to this forum a little while ago I'd never heard of the deck be called anything other than Mono- Red Prison, and admittedly the name feels like it hits pretty close to the mark. There are a LOT of deck in modern that can get locked out with any combination of our lock pieces and never really recover. But there are a pile of decks that either don't care that much or they pack enough maindeck disruption to the prison plan. The legacy variant uses a lot of the same card package but at best it's aggro package is still mostly a pile of 3 mana 2/2's while in modern I do see a lot more impactful threats like Daragons and my buddy Hazoret.
Well said, Russ. Appreciate the reply and your input in this forum. Keep up the awesome work
Going to try to do something stupid and stream while my 6-year old is playing Mario Kart for the Wii. Mass distrctions enabled, but it's mid-day, so i'm not nearly as tired as I usually am when I stream. Looking to test flame of Keld. Lets do this.
Quick talk of specific sideboarding tech against B/R Hollow One. Russ did a cracking job of a rundown against it and how to handle KCI. I'll add my advice as it relates to Trash Dragons. For those that wonder about the name, that's easy: Discard / Exile / Rummage / Sacrifice / Destroy. Total trash machine! It's everywhere.
So, my deck has now been posted on Magic's website. Going into the Top 8, I was 5th. But, it ended up in 8th place. That's what happens when 6th,7th,8th all win, and I go 1-1 into a mana catastrophe in game 3's draws. Happens. Anyway, here it is. And, here are my swaps.
BLOOD MOON
So, ALL bloodmoons stay in. They stop the casting of Tasigur/Gurmag/bloodghast. They shut off the (3) color mana availability for an engineered explosives to knock down a bridge. They stop the flashback casting of a ancient grudge from the graveyard. This is absolutely - absolutely critical. Consider: if they have maybe 3 ancient grudge in their deck. Well, OK. Those are the only cards which allow for their win in breaking a bridge (barring 4 bolts to finish the game - like Russ said, take into account life totals in how you implement locks). The reason why Blood Moon is critical is that the opponent can not comfortably cast either Goblin Lore or Burning Inquiry anymore. If they do, their Golden Ticket Anc. G. card could be lost forever. So, you're throwing a big monkey wrench into their engine.
DAMPING MATRIX
Use both of these. Sure, there's an allure to using Sorcerous Spyglass, but it's a 50/50 shot of shutting down the right sword: Engineered Explosives vs. Grim Lavamancer. DM hits both.
OTHERS
The other swaps pretty much speak for themselves.
Aweome report Vindicare. When I was reading and saw you beat a UR deck, I was like....oh *****! he's gonna take down that whole event! Then I kept reading....woomp woomp. You'll get'm next time!
I am SO happy Ray is on MTGO now. With all the success he's having, there's no way he's not going infinite now. initial cost of the deck, then play forever. Its good to see that the one who created this deck continues to innovate and is having success with those innovations. I might have to take that for a spin, maybe on my next stream.....
I just noticed something......no eidolon at all in the 75? A lot of us are loading up on that effect, but you are going the other way, with ZERO eidolons or Scab-Clan Beserkers. Balls of steel, but I have to ask....when you need to be the aggressor and bridges come out, what are you siding in? Like, vs jeskai control or storm for example.
In other news, I had a rare chance to stream today mid-day and completed three leagues. I tried Flame of keld over sarkhan in my build, but that was a disaster. Went 2-3, 1-3 in two comp leagues. It had nthing to do with Flame of Keld and everything to do with bad luck all around. It's posted to youtube for the world to see just how bad the luck was.....then magic happened (no pun intended). We entered a third league with old faithful, took out the flame and used the same list I ran last week. This is the official 2nd league with that list. Resule - 5-0. So, that's 10-0 with my Sarkhan list. Like I said, if I was running sarkhan in the first two leagues, I would have been crushed as well, but I can still say I am undefeated with my current sarkhan build.
Just wanted to say I tested Avaricious Dragon and Sarkhan, Fireblood together for the first time over the weekend, after seeing a lot of others running with it. I was blown away by how good it felt to play, having effectively 3 card draws each turn! I didn't think Sarkhan was going to be any good, but am actually glad to be proven wrong
Saw some spice a page or so back around Norn's Annex. If you're looking for more spice, you could also try Silent Arbiter as another pseudo-bridge.
+1 - Overlytired on the Sarkhan/Avaricious test flight success. Aim high.
Regarding Jeskai, all 1-for-1 plays ultimately end poorly, as you know. Thus, eidolon/scabs turn out to be low-grade speed bumps.
Better to Blank their Paths/Bolt/Helix plays with targets that require THEM to 2-for-1. I’m talking about Sarkhan, Chandra, Piran, Avaricious.
U/R Storm: indeed, eidolon/scab were effective. My concern with those critters was that they were too easily killed or stopped by a wall. There are gray area matchups that result in these creatures being remanded to the status of a gray ogre/hill giant in the face of a single beefy blocker.
Instead, I’m banking on broader and more permanent answers: Damping Sphere / Witchbane Orb / Ratchet Bomb / grafdigger’s cage
Strong on Russ’ 2nd 5-0 - Sarkhan Powahhhh!
Hah - I think we all underestimated this headbanger.
Pyro Prison -- Our Banner Unfurled and Flying High -- Pyro Prison
Hear ye, Mountainfolk. I have petitioned MTGtop8.com to differentiate our deck from Skred Red in their classification of Modern >> Control >> Mono Red Control. Below is a copy of my letter, and I will keep everyone aware of progress.
>> FORWARD >>
Hello MTGTOP8 Folks, I'm an avid fan of your site as it is the 'go-to' place for deciphering which way the wind blows across the planes. The curation of all things Magic is appreciated.
I am the creator of Pyro Prison, and I'm writing to you with a request to separate Pyro Prison/Skred Red into 2 different categories on your website. Perhaps surprisingly, there is only spell that they universally share in all decklists: Blood Moon, and Anger of the Gods in the Sideboard. A principal reason is that Pyro Prison runs (4) Chalice of the Void - so, we do no 1-drops and (4) Ensnaring Bridge - so, no big maindeck dragons. Fundamentally, very different decks.
It is now 1 of 79 'established' decks in MTGsalvation with 150,000 views & 2,700 posts. Although similar to Skred Red, the contributors/pilots argue that we are a distinct archetype. Pyro Prison is named as such because it has (2) modes: Pyro = Aggro // Prison = Control. It's not uncommon for us to win a round by playing 0 prison cards - just win through goblin attack in round 1 with a transformative sideboard into full creature aggro in round 2. An opponent who lost to this would not characterize the deck as any sort of prison.
The first question that needs to be addressed is, "Are there enough wins from both archetypes to populate into 2 different categories." I've reviewed the decklists catalogued by MTGTOP8 and noted that we are a 'large green arrow' trending straight up. The numbers are there.
Secondly, "Is there a recognition in the Magic community that these 2 archetypes are distinctly different". Yes. Skred has their thread and we have ours. Similarly, we both have spells unique to our own builds. I'll list them out here, and then close out this letter. Thank you for your attention to what I personally view as an enhancement to the diversity and accuracy of your deck-type listings. Again, thanks for all that you do for the community.
Skred Red (also listed as Snow Red)
- snow-covered mountains
- ALL 1-cmc spells: lightning bolt, skred, relic of progenitus
- Large dragons: Stormbreath Dragon
- Mind Stone
- Eternal Scourge
Pyro Prison (also known as Mono Red Prison & Prison Red)
- Chalice of the Void
- Ensnaring Bridge
- 3 different Mana Ritual Cards: Desperate/Pyretic/Simian Spirit Guide
- Goblin Rabblemaster
That's the simplest guide for separation. There is some shared use of planeswalkers and removal spells, but what I've listed above are very set-in-stone differences.
EDIT: Also, a mountain high-five across the Atlantic to Witney, Oxfordshire: Vindicare982's report was engaging and illustrated learning progressions expertly - Control vs. Aggressor. Nobody could have seen that Fracturing Gust coming. Punishing. But, glad you to hear you love our deck.
Hey all. Promised to write a short report after 5-0ing a friendly league. Turned up a bit longer...sorry. I played Ray's Thrash Dragons - the MTGO Classic list. Was excelleeeeeent!
Match 1 U/W Control
Game 1: T2 Moon. Chalice on 2 gets countered but a Chandra pushes through. Opponent concedes.
Game 2: T2 Moon, T3 Rabblemaster. Opponent concedes. Also sends a couple of salty messages before quitting.
Match 2 Vengevine
Game 1: T1 Chalice on 1. Opponent concedes. Is this a pattern I'm starting to see?
Game 2: Was quite hard to sideboard. But I correctly place the opponent on some sort of aggro plan placed on the immediate concession to a Chalice. Rabblemasters out, Spellskite and uh, something in? I think I took Angers as well. Anyway, opponent is playing a couple of 1/1s (including a Ballista) and my T2 Bridge is looking quite sad. I land a Chalice on 2 (for Grudge protection) and start digging with Sarkhan. I find an Anger to which they scoop. Probably would have eventually gone to zero cards anyway, but the Ballista was scary.
Match 3 U/W Control
Game 1: T1 Chalice on 1. After opponent's T1 I realize what they're on, play Bridge T2 anyway. Avaricious gets bounced, Hazoret countered and Chalice bounced as well. Game is not looking good. I reset the graves with a Scavenging Grounds and play an Attack Monkey and a Rabblemaster topdecked. Both resolve and proceed to meet an untimely end to a Terminus. Too bad I continue topdecking and play a Chandra to which they apparently do not have an answer - interesting? Chandra reveals a Chalice which I immediately play on 1. Opp's Colonnade is also doing jack and crap because of my early Bridge. Next spells get countered (Dragon and Sarkhan) but as Chandra gets to 7 loyalty opponent decides they've had enough and scoop.
Game 2: Opponent leads off with a Basic Island. I play a T1 Moon anyway given the chance to take them off double blue and/or white. They get another Island and suspend a Vision. Too bad I have another ritual to power out a T2 Rabblemaster. Uh, and a T3 Rabblemaster. Yeah...and they concede.
Match 4 Vengevine (uhh wait what is this again?)
Game 1: T2 Chandra followed up by a Bridge. Chandra dies to a couple of speedy 1/1s, and I'm running out of time to empty my hand. I do get a Rabblemaster to start on blocking duty, followed up by a Sarkhan. Sarkhan's digging into another Rabblemaster and my hand gets finally emptied. Sarkhan's digging...and digging...and digging...and ultimating...and digging into an Avaricious...and digging, holy hell? Eventually I reach the critical mass of Goblin tokens and just attack with them. And that's game.
Game 2: Play a T2 Moon through a Gemstone but they have a Ratchet Bomb! I can't play a Bridge so I just play a Moon. Maybe I should have played that single Bridge anyway (I had a Chalice in hand as well) since they manage to get me low enough to finish me with a Bolt. Desperate times call for desperate measures...
Game 3: T1 Cage, T3 Chandra (dies to a Vengie and a Bolt), play another and just flame slash the Vengie (because Cage). A Reckless Bushwacker comes screaming through the gates anyway and kills Chandra #2. They play a Ratchet Bomb but I do have an Anger in hand. After another creature and a Vengie, I play my third Chandra and Anger the board. I also have a Chalice on 2 at this point so they can't play another Bomb. Maybe they are not even playing Grudges? Draw two Bridges, play one and start waiting and ticking up. A Pia & Her Friend lands and opponent decides to uptick all the way to 4. OK, I finish them with a Thopter them being at 2 life at this point.
Match 5 Scapeshift
Game 1: Lots of stuff happening. Chalice on 1, Avaricious Dragon, Sarkhan & The Digs - all get answered since they have Sages and Bolts maindeck. I just can't seem to answer that and a Bloodbraid and just die to them.
Game 2: Chalice on 1, followed up by a Rabble. Chalice dies, so does the Rabble. Not good! Get Sarkhan out, dig - yes! A Moon! Thank you Sarkhan for being my friend. They don't have green mana anymore and can't do anything. Sarkhan ultimates, a Chandra gets found, along a Spellskite and a Witchbane Orb...ok ok.
Game 3: T2 Sarkhan, gets killed. Chalice on zero. Blood Moon. Prime Time. Hazoret for blocking (uhh - ok I guess...). Play a Chandra and totally punt - they decide to go face and I have another one. But I STILL DON'T DOUBLE FLAME SLASH PRIME TIME!! I'm an idiot...I go down to 3 at which point I finally realize that. So, Prime Time dies.
Let me explain the rest of the game since this is where it gets interesting. So, me at 3 life, opponent at 17. They have an Elder and 2 Damping Spheres out (??? - I guess it works against Rituals??). I have 2 Moon, Chandra at 1 loyalty and a Hazoret. Even a topdecked Bolt kills me so I have to play to my outs.
Me: Uptick Chandra, 2 dmg. Attack with Hazoret. They block. OK.
Opp: Play Prime Time. EOT use Haz.
Me: Draw Ruins. Uptick Chandra, 2 dmg. Think. Pass. Opp at 11 life.
Opp: Thinks. Gets in with Prime Time, block with Haz, go to 1. Play Scapeshift (ok?). EOT use Haz.
Me: Draw Rabble. Uptcik Chandra, 2 dmg. Attack with Haz, use Haz, GG.
I wonder why they played like that. If they had decided not to attack, they would've gotten 2 extra draws to draw into a Bolt - assuming I didn't draw into anything useful with Chandra either. I'd say it was a misplay - but maybe there is something I'm not seeing...
Aaaanyway. About the deck and the cards. I must say I didn't really miss the Eidolons or the Scabbies at all. I know - my wins against UW were quite lucky, but hey, that's what you need right? The issues with those is that they don't actually win you the game against Control. They are great with Combo (and Burn) but Control...uhh not really. A Moon and a Rabble is where it's at. Protected by a Chalice, that is. It's a bit of a tall order, but what can you do. I'd rather Moon them and wait for a threat - any will do! Even a Monkey will do the job. So - I do understand the rationale behind leaving them behind altogether, to clear up space for additional SB cards. I like this - a lot.
Shinka is spicy. It's an extremely corner case a card (only Piran?? Haz is useless in 99% of scenarios) but whatever. The deck isn't running Koth so who cares. Normally I also don't like 21 lands (I strongly believe you need more) but here 11 Rituals and 3 Sarkhans accompanied by 2 Avaricious do wonders. This will enable a powered-out lockpiece almost always - and Sarkhan and The Pet will take care of digging into more. This is a completely new angle in PP - one that's been missing a long time. Love it.
The rest of the deck is quite straightforward - freeing up SB slots enables more answers. Toolbox is a very good approach I think. It leaves a lot of room to have an answer to pretty much anything. Obviously I didn't need even half of that stuff in my matches - but that's fine! I didn't feel I was lacking anything either.
What I'd change - hmm, too early to say. I might go ahead and switch 1 Piran with a Bringer of Glory - but IDK. The list is pretty solid as it is. Maaaaybe I would dedicate a slot or two for Control...a Ricochet Trap or a Boil? Ray mentioned that he took out the Chainwhirler for a 4th Anger - a sound strat. I do like having a blocker against Mardu - but is an Anger better? Maybe. Ratchet Bomb is kinda sticking out like a sore thumb as well - never really found much use for it. But I do see that sometimes there is one.
Anyway, those are my thoughts for now! I'm gonna keep running this list maybe with these small alterations. If all turns well I might take it to the Big Tables at GP Stockholm next month.
He made some interesting points about Hazoret being good vs Jund. I’d always just written it off as bad vs Liliana of the veil.deck but i guess hazoret does blank every other removal spell and blocks goyfs all day.
Jund matchup is still horrendous though, i dont know what else we can do about that.
The real problem is goyf. Vs mardu pyromancer, which is like jund, we take out all the lock pieces (moons and bridges) and go right to the face with eidolons, hazorets and soft lock pieces like spellskite and chalices. Vs jund, theres a creature called Tarmogoyf. This is usually a 5/6 or bigger, which is much taller than bedlam reveler. His height is a real problem for us. also, all their removal hits our bridges, so you can't expect to hide behind those.
So, how do we deal with goyf? Temporary solution is scavager grounds. there's also that red delve burn spell...what's it called....Harvest Pyre. that can deal with goyf, but it's extremely narrow. I wish we had something else, like the ability to steal it, attack with this, and then get rid of it. If only grab the reins wasn't so expensive to entwine....
Does anybody else have a good answer to goyf? Do we need to bring back ratchet bomb? That also dies to all of Jund's spells. it's too often out of chandra's range and we don't do enough damage where stealing it and attacking will win us enough games to warrent bringing it in. Come on, there's got to be a way to deal with goyf.
For the record, every time I am trying to deal with goyf and cannot because of it's size, I realize why it's a $100 card. It's got Protection from Red removal spells built into it.
https://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/modern/fadvisor82/mono-red-prison/1329785
How you liking Sarkan?
I played vs this deck during my last 5-0 . Take a look at my last twitch video or YouTube video and you'll see how it wins. Game one, they blow up their bridges with EE, then attack for a billion with an insane number of 5/5 dudes. Games two and three, sai comes in and wrecks face.
Basically, whatever role we need to play, we drop cards that don't fit that role and add others that do.
For example, using my list, vs control, my sideboard is as follows:
Out: 4 Bridge, 2 Slagtorm, 2 abrade
In: 3 Eidolon, 1 Hazoret, 1 Spellskite, 1 Spyglass, 1 Boil, 1 Torpor Orb
That's what I did three times during the classic and I won all three of those matches. So, in almost every match, we'll have at least 4 automatic cards we need to bring out for better stuff. the only deck where I leave in rabblemasters AND bridges that I can think of is deaths shadow. That's one of those odd matches were literally everything we have lines up great against them except for the abrades and slagstorms.
If we need to go deeper into sideboard strategy, we can, but thats the basics. Assume what role you need to play and then sideboard into that role.
Now, onto more fund stuff.....Flame of Keld....you may have stumbled onto something genius here. I use Sarkhaan for looting and he's been GREAT. being able to cycle an extra moon for an actual card has proven to be super useful. Flame of keld can do that and empty your hand for a turn. Drawing three the next turn could be a problem if under a bridge, but that's a unique scenario. Firts, you need a bridge in play. then, you need to be facing creatures with power 2 or less. Last, yo need to draw three cards that you can't use. with 50% mana, chances are you are going to draw one or two lands/rituals and one/two spells, ending that turn with a single card in hand. I can totally see that being in my deck and replacing sarkhan. Costing two is also a big deal over costing three, especially when we turn one chandra into flame. Turn one chandra happens a lot more often than you think (well, maybe you know since your playing this deck), and turn one chandra into flame of keld helps reload after you just spend all the cards playing chandra. Yes, this needs to be tested and I'll behappy to do that. I think I'll try flame of keld over sarkhan in my next league and see how I do.
Until I came to this forum a little while ago I'd never heard of the deck be called anything other than Mono- Red Prison, and admittedly the name feels like it hits pretty close to the mark. There are a LOT of deck in modern that can get locked out with any combination of our lock pieces and never really recover. But there are a pile of decks that either don't care that much or they pack enough maindeck disruption to the prison plan. The legacy variant uses a lot of the same card package but at best it's aggro package is still mostly a pile of 3 mana 2/2's while in modern I do see a lot more impactful threats like Daragons and my buddy Hazoret.
Well said, Russ. Appreciate the reply and your input in this forum. Keep up the awesome work
Twitch: Stickballruss
So, my deck has now been posted on Magic's website. Going into the Top 8, I was 5th. But, it ended up in 8th place. That's what happens when 6th,7th,8th all win, and I go 1-1 into a mana catastrophe in game 3's draws. Happens. Anyway, here it is. And, here are my swaps.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2018-08-05
IN:
3 Anger of the Gods / 2 Damping Sphere / 1 Spellskite / 1 Grafdigger's Cage / 1 Shattering Spree / Goblin Chainwhirler [now changed to a 4th Anger]
OUT:
4 Rabblemaster / 2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance / 2 Pyretic Ritual / 1 Sarkhan, Fireblood
Reasoning....
BLOOD MOON
So, ALL bloodmoons stay in. They stop the casting of Tasigur/Gurmag/bloodghast. They shut off the (3) color mana availability for an engineered explosives to knock down a bridge. They stop the flashback casting of a ancient grudge from the graveyard. This is absolutely - absolutely critical. Consider: if they have maybe 3 ancient grudge in their deck. Well, OK. Those are the only cards which allow for their win in breaking a bridge (barring 4 bolts to finish the game - like Russ said, take into account life totals in how you implement locks). The reason why Blood Moon is critical is that the opponent can not comfortably cast either Goblin Lore or Burning Inquiry anymore. If they do, their Golden Ticket Anc. G. card could be lost forever. So, you're throwing a big monkey wrench into their engine.
DAMPING MATRIX
Use both of these. Sure, there's an allure to using Sorcerous Spyglass, but it's a 50/50 shot of shutting down the right sword: Engineered Explosives vs. Grim Lavamancer. DM hits both.
OTHERS
The other swaps pretty much speak for themselves.
Saddle up some dragons, and get to trashing!
I am SO happy Ray is on MTGO now. With all the success he's having, there's no way he's not going infinite now. initial cost of the deck, then play forever. Its good to see that the one who created this deck continues to innovate and is having success with those innovations. I might have to take that for a spin, maybe on my next stream.....
I just noticed something......no eidolon at all in the 75? A lot of us are loading up on that effect, but you are going the other way, with ZERO eidolons or Scab-Clan Beserkers. Balls of steel, but I have to ask....when you need to be the aggressor and bridges come out, what are you siding in? Like, vs jeskai control or storm for example.
In other news, I had a rare chance to stream today mid-day and completed three leagues. I tried Flame of keld over sarkhan in my build, but that was a disaster. Went 2-3, 1-3 in two comp leagues. It had nthing to do with Flame of Keld and everything to do with bad luck all around. It's posted to youtube for the world to see just how bad the luck was.....then magic happened (no pun intended). We entered a third league with old faithful, took out the flame and used the same list I ran last week. This is the official 2nd league with that list. Resule - 5-0. So, that's 10-0 with my Sarkhan list. Like I said, if I was running sarkhan in the first two leagues, I would have been crushed as well, but I can still say I am undefeated with my current sarkhan build.
Saw some spice a page or so back around Norn's Annex. If you're looking for more spice, you could also try Silent Arbiter as another pseudo-bridge.
Regarding Jeskai, all 1-for-1 plays ultimately end poorly, as you know. Thus, eidolon/scabs turn out to be low-grade speed bumps.
Better to Blank their Paths/Bolt/Helix plays with targets that require THEM to 2-for-1. I’m talking about Sarkhan, Chandra, Piran, Avaricious.
U/R Storm: indeed, eidolon/scab were effective. My concern with those critters was that they were too easily killed or stopped by a wall. There are gray area matchups that result in these creatures being remanded to the status of a gray ogre/hill giant in the face of a single beefy blocker.
Instead, I’m banking on broader and more permanent answers: Damping Sphere / Witchbane Orb / Ratchet Bomb / grafdigger’s cage
Strong on Russ’ 2nd 5-0 - Sarkhan Powahhhh!
Hah - I think we all underestimated this headbanger.
Hear ye, Mountainfolk. I have petitioned MTGtop8.com to differentiate our deck from Skred Red in their classification of Modern >> Control >> Mono Red Control. Below is a copy of my letter, and I will keep everyone aware of progress.
>> FORWARD >>
Hello MTGTOP8 Folks, I'm an avid fan of your site as it is the 'go-to' place for deciphering which way the wind blows across the planes. The curation of all things Magic is appreciated.
I am the creator of Pyro Prison, and I'm writing to you with a request to separate Pyro Prison/Skred Red into 2 different categories on your website. Perhaps surprisingly, there is only spell that they universally share in all decklists: Blood Moon, and Anger of the Gods in the Sideboard. A principal reason is that Pyro Prison runs (4) Chalice of the Void - so, we do no 1-drops and (4) Ensnaring Bridge - so, no big maindeck dragons. Fundamentally, very different decks.
I launched the thread in January of 2016 on Mtgsalvation.com
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/control/663335-pyro-prison-goblinized-mono-red-control-the
It is now 1 of 79 'established' decks in MTGsalvation with 150,000 views & 2,700 posts. Although similar to Skred Red, the contributors/pilots argue that we are a distinct archetype. Pyro Prison is named as such because it has (2) modes: Pyro = Aggro // Prison = Control. It's not uncommon for us to win a round by playing 0 prison cards - just win through goblin attack in round 1 with a transformative sideboard into full creature aggro in round 2. An opponent who lost to this would not characterize the deck as any sort of prison.
The first question that needs to be addressed is, "Are there enough wins from both archetypes to populate into 2 different categories." I've reviewed the decklists catalogued by MTGTOP8 and noted that we are a 'large green arrow' trending straight up. The numbers are there.
Secondly, "Is there a recognition in the Magic community that these 2 archetypes are distinctly different". Yes. Skred has their thread and we have ours. Similarly, we both have spells unique to our own builds. I'll list them out here, and then close out this letter. Thank you for your attention to what I personally view as an enhancement to the diversity and accuracy of your deck-type listings. Again, thanks for all that you do for the community.
Skred Red (also listed as Snow Red)
- snow-covered mountains
- ALL 1-cmc spells: lightning bolt, skred, relic of progenitus
- Large dragons: Stormbreath Dragon
- Mind Stone
- Eternal Scourge
Pyro Prison (also known as Mono Red Prison & Prison Red)
- Chalice of the Void
- Ensnaring Bridge
- 3 different Mana Ritual Cards: Desperate/Pyretic/Simian Spirit Guide
- Goblin Rabblemaster
That's the simplest guide for separation. There is some shared use of planeswalkers and removal spells, but what I've listed above are very set-in-stone differences.
Sincerely, Ray Karkman
MTGO username and MTGsalvation username: Raystack
Note: I got a Top 8 in the MTGO Classic Modern this Saturday - 8th place - Green Arrow getting Greener and Greener https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2018-08-05
EDIT:
Also, a mountain high-five across the Atlantic to Witney, Oxfordshire: Vindicare982's report was engaging and illustrated learning progressions expertly - Control vs. Aggressor. Nobody could have seen that Fracturing Gust coming. Punishing. But, glad you to hear you love our deck.
Match 1 U/W Control
Game 1: T2 Moon. Chalice on 2 gets countered but a Chandra pushes through. Opponent concedes.
Game 2: T2 Moon, T3 Rabblemaster. Opponent concedes. Also sends a couple of salty messages before quitting.
Match 2 Vengevine
Game 1: T1 Chalice on 1. Opponent concedes. Is this a pattern I'm starting to see?
Game 2: Was quite hard to sideboard. But I correctly place the opponent on some sort of aggro plan placed on the immediate concession to a Chalice. Rabblemasters out, Spellskite and uh, something in? I think I took Angers as well. Anyway, opponent is playing a couple of 1/1s (including a Ballista) and my T2 Bridge is looking quite sad. I land a Chalice on 2 (for Grudge protection) and start digging with Sarkhan. I find an Anger to which they scoop. Probably would have eventually gone to zero cards anyway, but the Ballista was scary.
Match 3 U/W Control
Game 1: T1 Chalice on 1. After opponent's T1 I realize what they're on, play Bridge T2 anyway. Avaricious gets bounced, Hazoret countered and Chalice bounced as well. Game is not looking good. I reset the graves with a Scavenging Grounds and play an Attack Monkey and a Rabblemaster topdecked. Both resolve and proceed to meet an untimely end to a Terminus. Too bad I continue topdecking and play a Chandra to which they apparently do not have an answer - interesting? Chandra reveals a Chalice which I immediately play on 1. Opp's Colonnade is also doing jack and crap because of my early Bridge. Next spells get countered (Dragon and Sarkhan) but as Chandra gets to 7 loyalty opponent decides they've had enough and scoop.
Game 2: Opponent leads off with a Basic Island. I play a T1 Moon anyway given the chance to take them off double blue and/or white. They get another Island and suspend a Vision. Too bad I have another ritual to power out a T2 Rabblemaster. Uh, and a T3 Rabblemaster. Yeah...and they concede.
Match 4 Vengevine (uhh wait what is this again?)
Game 1: T2 Chandra followed up by a Bridge. Chandra dies to a couple of speedy 1/1s, and I'm running out of time to empty my hand. I do get a Rabblemaster to start on blocking duty, followed up by a Sarkhan. Sarkhan's digging into another Rabblemaster and my hand gets finally emptied. Sarkhan's digging...and digging...and digging...and ultimating...and digging into an Avaricious...and digging, holy hell? Eventually I reach the critical mass of Goblin tokens and just attack with them. And that's game.
Game 2: Play a T2 Moon through a Gemstone but they have a Ratchet Bomb! I can't play a Bridge so I just play a Moon. Maybe I should have played that single Bridge anyway (I had a Chalice in hand as well) since they manage to get me low enough to finish me with a Bolt. Desperate times call for desperate measures...
Game 3: T1 Cage, T3 Chandra (dies to a Vengie and a Bolt), play another and just flame slash the Vengie (because Cage). A Reckless Bushwacker comes screaming through the gates anyway and kills Chandra #2. They play a Ratchet Bomb but I do have an Anger in hand. After another creature and a Vengie, I play my third Chandra and Anger the board. I also have a Chalice on 2 at this point so they can't play another Bomb. Maybe they are not even playing Grudges? Draw two Bridges, play one and start waiting and ticking up. A Pia & Her Friend lands and opponent decides to uptick all the way to 4. OK, I finish them with a Thopter them being at 2 life at this point.
Match 5 Scapeshift
Game 1: Lots of stuff happening. Chalice on 1, Avaricious Dragon, Sarkhan & The Digs - all get answered since they have Sages and Bolts maindeck. I just can't seem to answer that and a Bloodbraid and just die to them.
Game 2: Chalice on 1, followed up by a Rabble. Chalice dies, so does the Rabble. Not good! Get Sarkhan out, dig - yes! A Moon! Thank you Sarkhan for being my friend. They don't have green mana anymore and can't do anything. Sarkhan ultimates, a Chandra gets found, along a Spellskite and a Witchbane Orb...ok ok.
Game 3: T2 Sarkhan, gets killed. Chalice on zero. Blood Moon. Prime Time. Hazoret for blocking (uhh - ok I guess...). Play a Chandra and totally punt - they decide to go face and I have another one. But I STILL DON'T DOUBLE FLAME SLASH PRIME TIME!! I'm an idiot...I go down to 3 at which point I finally realize that. So, Prime Time dies.
Let me explain the rest of the game since this is where it gets interesting. So, me at 3 life, opponent at 17. They have an Elder and 2 Damping Spheres out (??? - I guess it works against Rituals??). I have 2 Moon, Chandra at 1 loyalty and a Hazoret. Even a topdecked Bolt kills me so I have to play to my outs.
Me: Uptick Chandra, 2 dmg. Attack with Hazoret. They block. OK.
Opp: Play Prime Time. EOT use Haz.
Me: Draw Ruins. Uptick Chandra, 2 dmg. Think. Pass. Opp at 11 life.
Opp: Thinks. Gets in with Prime Time, block with Haz, go to 1. Play Scapeshift (ok?). EOT use Haz.
Me: Draw Rabble. Uptcik Chandra, 2 dmg. Attack with Haz, use Haz, GG.
I wonder why they played like that. If they had decided not to attack, they would've gotten 2 extra draws to draw into a Bolt - assuming I didn't draw into anything useful with Chandra either. I'd say it was a misplay - but maybe there is something I'm not seeing...
Aaaanyway. About the deck and the cards. I must say I didn't really miss the Eidolons or the Scabbies at all. I know - my wins against UW were quite lucky, but hey, that's what you need right? The issues with those is that they don't actually win you the game against Control. They are great with Combo (and Burn) but Control...uhh not really. A Moon and a Rabble is where it's at. Protected by a Chalice, that is. It's a bit of a tall order, but what can you do. I'd rather Moon them and wait for a threat - any will do! Even a Monkey will do the job. So - I do understand the rationale behind leaving them behind altogether, to clear up space for additional SB cards. I like this - a lot.
Shinka is spicy. It's an extremely corner case a card (only Piran?? Haz is useless in 99% of scenarios) but whatever. The deck isn't running Koth so who cares. Normally I also don't like 21 lands (I strongly believe you need more) but here 11 Rituals and 3 Sarkhans accompanied by 2 Avaricious do wonders. This will enable a powered-out lockpiece almost always - and Sarkhan and The Pet will take care of digging into more. This is a completely new angle in PP - one that's been missing a long time. Love it.
The rest of the deck is quite straightforward - freeing up SB slots enables more answers. Toolbox is a very good approach I think. It leaves a lot of room to have an answer to pretty much anything. Obviously I didn't need even half of that stuff in my matches - but that's fine! I didn't feel I was lacking anything either.
What I'd change - hmm, too early to say. I might go ahead and switch 1 Piran with a Bringer of Glory - but IDK. The list is pretty solid as it is. Maaaaybe I would dedicate a slot or two for Control...a Ricochet Trap or a Boil? Ray mentioned that he took out the Chainwhirler for a 4th Anger - a sound strat. I do like having a blocker against Mardu - but is an Anger better? Maybe. Ratchet Bomb is kinda sticking out like a sore thumb as well - never really found much use for it. But I do see that sometimes there is one.
Anyway, those are my thoughts for now! I'm gonna keep running this list maybe with these small alterations. If all turns well I might take it to the Big Tables at GP Stockholm next month.
Dammit I missed it.. how did he run?
0-3 then 3-2 he played like 4-5jund games.
First league he went lost to himself, a legit loss, and then to Jund, going 1-3. Give him credit, he ran it back again.
2nd league, he went defeated vs jund and undefeated vs everything else.....3-2.
The real problem is goyf. Vs mardu pyromancer, which is like jund, we take out all the lock pieces (moons and bridges) and go right to the face with eidolons, hazorets and soft lock pieces like spellskite and chalices. Vs jund, theres a creature called Tarmogoyf. This is usually a 5/6 or bigger, which is much taller than bedlam reveler. His height is a real problem for us. also, all their removal hits our bridges, so you can't expect to hide behind those.
So, how do we deal with goyf? Temporary solution is scavager grounds. there's also that red delve burn spell...what's it called....Harvest Pyre. that can deal with goyf, but it's extremely narrow. I wish we had something else, like the ability to steal it, attack with this, and then get rid of it. If only grab the reins wasn't so expensive to entwine....
Does anybody else have a good answer to goyf? Do we need to bring back ratchet bomb? That also dies to all of Jund's spells. it's too often out of chandra's range and we don't do enough damage where stealing it and attacking will win us enough games to warrent bringing it in. Come on, there's got to be a way to deal with goyf.
For the record, every time I am trying to deal with goyf and cannot because of it's size, I realize why it's a $100 card. It's got Protection from Red removal spells built into it.
Just muy expensivo. Still, they Lili down tick, we steal Goyf.
KCI? Mine!
Karn or Ugin? Nabbed!
For more realistic it’s a second Piran...3rd? I mean Todd was very down on Slagstorm and Sweltering Suns — pia and Kiran ARE bridge #5