Echoing Truth handles a lot of fringe situations and is nasty when followed with a counter spell. Jace is Snap 5 and 6. He's fairly consistent with little investment. Pyro is nice right now since a lot of decks are going wide. He can get out of control against decks with little removal.
Two concerns:
I included 2x Glen Elendra Archmage to sub out Pyro against GBx and other control decks. It's worked well in some testing, but idk of this should be another dispel and something else like anew additional countersquall.
Also, is Olivia too slow right now? I was thinking of siding her in place of 1x Anger.
So what do you guys think it should be. I've narrowed it down to either:-
Desolate Lighthouse
Flashfreeze
Electrolyze
Terminate
Rise // Fall
You could add Sedraxis Specter to that list (I'm trying a 1 of currently). Otherwise, try Rise // Fall or Electrolyze. Rise can possibly be another 2 for 1 which to me looks awesome for only RB It might have been mentioned somewhere in the thread already about Specter being bad or ineffective but I think he is worth a try since he isn't on any list seen. I'm aware he is bad vs tokens and Lingering Souls...
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Hey guys, I've been lurking your forums for a little while and you guys seem the best knowledgeable guys around for this deck. So, I like to ask you guys, What should I do for my 60th card in the main board since I can't seem to decide on what it should be. I play in a store with a pretty diverse deck lists. Everything from Jund to GW Enchantress and all flavour of playable (and unplayable) modern decks in between with a probably higher then normal lean on blue lists so you guys could help me.
The 60th card used to be a 2nd copy of remand but I felt that was 1 remand too many and I felt like I could get a lot more value out of my deck with it being something else. However, As stated, I've been having problems narrowing down what it should be. I had a go with Izzet charm so I had a jack of all trades card but found that every mode was pretty crap since it was never really as good as it could be since it had to be balanced as a charm.
So what do you guys think it should be. I've narrowed it down to either:-
Currently, I'm thinking of leaning on Desolate Lighthouse, Since it's an extra mana so I can have a better chance of playing my spells against the blue decks and it also lets me do something without having to spend a card to do it. It also seems good for when I get into grindfest games where I'm looking for answers. Also maybe thinking Flashfreeze since we're currently in a meta where it actually hits quite a few things and it frees up an extra slot in the sideboard for something else (Really want to try and put a EE in the side) so that would be super sweet. All that being said, I'm not actually sure though because I don't get enough chances to test the deck that much to where I can start working this stuff out for myself. So yeah, Guys, What are your opinion on this?
Also, Would it be smart to drop an extra Cryptic Command for something else because I'm finding that I'm siding all 3 out in a ton of matches for sideboard cards. On the flip side, It's a powerful card for the mainboard that can help me win games that I couldn't otherwise win and it's an easy cut if needed when we go to sideboard...
Electrolyze is rarely terrible. Usually just underwhelming. It's what I'd play in my lists right now, even though I haven't touched modern in a month. You'd have to give us a more definite projection of what you see at tournaments to get a good, cut and dry, answer though.
I play with 3 Cryptic but it can be alot, sort of like the 3rd Gurmag Angler. What you'd sub in for it however, is a little less easy. Maybe a MD boardwipe.
It really depends on your meta but I would go with Negate/Countersquall over Flashfreeze in the main. Negate effects are rarely dead and we don't really have trouble dealing with green and red creatures.
The other thing to consider in your flex slot would be some kind of mid to late game card advantage to help in grindy games. People here have had a lot of success with Mulldrifter and Gifts Ungiven. The other option can just be random value cards like Glen Elendra Archmage, the deck handles one-of value spells really well.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
Personally I really like to have one bounce spell. Sometimes it is the only way for us to deal with something once it hits the board. And I have used them to bounce my Snappy if I really need to. Currently using Echoing Truth. Works great against decks that go wide, which we seem to have a lot of problems with. Of the ones you listed I would say Rise/Fall. It does a ton of work.
Do you guys play 3 angler? or 2 angler/1vendillon or 2 angler/Kerenos?
Most players are on the 4 Snappy + 5 Dudes. Usually that is 2 Taz - 2 Anglers, with the last spot a flex slot. Another Angler, Vendilion, Kerenos, Mulldrifter or Glen Elen are popular choices. Really it is just a play style/meta choice. No real wrong answers.
It really depends on your meta but I would go with Negate/Countersquall over Flashfreeze in the main. Negate effects are rarely dead and we don't really have trouble dealing with green and red creatures.
The other thing to consider in your flex slot would be some kind of mid to late game card advantage to help in grindy games. People here have had a lot of success with Mulldrifter and Gifts Ungiven. The other option can just be random value cards like Glen Elendra Archmage, the deck handles one-of value spells really well.
To be honest, I hate play sorcery speed stuff, So having Mulldrifters ect is asking for a blow out because of my shops slight slant wanting to play blue control.
Personally I really like to have one bounce spell. Sometimes it is the only way for us to deal with something once it hits the board. And I have used them to bounce my Snappy if I really need to. Currently using Echoing Truth. Works great against decks that go wide, which we seem to have a lot of problems with. Of the ones you listed I would say Rise/Fall. It does a ton of work.
Huh, I never thought about Echoing Truth. I'm actually a big fan of that because it's a universal answer to stuff that I otherwise can't deal with. At least to put them in a spot where I can try and counter it on the way back down and it helps with Tokens which I'm currently having a massive fear of. Thanks man. Guess I need to try and find a copy of Echoing Truth for my deck now
Do you guys play 3 angler? or 2 angler/1vendillon or 2 angler/Kerenos?
I'm on the 4 Snap, 2 Tasi, 2 Angler and Vendilion Clique plan. I feel like Vendilion Clique is pretty good against cards you would struggle to beat, at least, enough to slide out an Angler and put her in it's place.
Im not a fan of clique as lingering souls is popular right now.
I'm on the 4 Snap, 2 Tasi, 2 Angler and Vendilion Clique plan. I feel like Vendilion Clique is pretty good against cards you would struggle to beat, at least, enough to slide out an Angler and put her in it's place.
Im not a fan of clique as lingering souls is popular right now.[/quote]
If you are having a lot of problems with Tokens or small dudes Izzet Staticaster is a house against them. It is really a meta call. I always have one in my sideboard, but one MB may work for you.
@mittinskittens - Echoing Truth -> V.Click works really well, just saying.
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Modern
Currently Playing UW UW Control/Miracles R Skred Red
Not to bring budget into this too much but I currently have 1x Creeping Tar Pit ... While I get the second one should I substitute in something like a Lavaclaw for the manland? Temple of deceit since its a tapped land anyways? Or just add another shock or check or something? Thanks!
Been experimenting with a bigger top end lately, most notably I'm running Keranos MB. First I started with 1 copy then decided he's good enough to run two. He makes a great game 1 threat since almost no one has an answer to him unless they can counter him but counterspells aren't too popular in the local meta. Here's what I'm running right now, took it to a 4-0 earlier tonight against Jund, Merfolk, Lantern, and Infect.
Not to bring budget into this too much but I currently have 1x Creeping Tar Pit ... While I get the second one should I substitute in something like a Lavaclaw for the manland? Temple of deceit since its a tapped land anyways? Or just add another shock or check or something? Thanks!
It depends on how many Cryptics you're running. Unless you're going to play in the next week I would turn the slot into a Blighted Fen once Zendikar comes out. That's a very good land if you can handle colorless. Lavaclaw Reaches is fairly poor, if you want the manland though maybe try Faerie Conclave instead. I've gone back and forth on my Halimar Depths slot if I want another manland there or not. If I were to put one in it would be a Conclave since it's not as mana intensive and the deck already has enough mana sinks.
Not to bring budget into this too much but I currently have 1x Creeping Tar Pit ... While I get the second one should I substitute in something like a Lavaclaw for the manland? Temple of deceit since its a tapped land anyways? Or just add another shock or check or something? Thanks!
Run a Drowned Catacomb in its place, or a Desolate Lighthouse if you don't already have one.
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Curse of Death's Hold
2x Dispel
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Languish
1x Olivia Voldaren
2x Shatterstorm
I have been looking at this thread for a while. I would like if you guys to tell me how to update the list.
I assume the Anticipates are in there as a budget Serum Visions, but it's really nowhere near as good, unfortunately. If you're specifically looking for a cheap alternative, Sleight of Hand is better than Anticipate for accomplishing what you're trying to do. It's still not as good as Visions, but it will do in a pinch. My recommendation is to either replace Anticipate with SoH until you can buy Visions, or just bite the bullet and straight up replace Anticipate with Visions asap.
As for the rest of the list: Brutal Expulsion is probably terrible, you probably have too many Cryptic Commands by 1 or 2, and Pia and Kiran Nalaar is more than likely better served in the sideboard if anywhere. I'd replace the P+K with another Angler, and Expulsion+1 Cryptic for 2 Mana Leak.
Has anyone tried Abbot of Keral Keep in this? Seems like a good cantrip / one drop draw engine.
You have to build a whole shell around Abbot. He doesn't work very well with a counter centric game plan, and he doesn't work well with high CMC spells. This specific shell is not a good place for Abbot.
Well, i guess there is too much graveyard hate and we got numerous bad matchups. We have to do something to prevent this.
What do you say about this list? It's more midrangey but still a control one.
I'm running a similar creature base and it's done pretty good so far. The only difference is I run 2 Jace in place of 1 Pyro and 1 Gurmag. Pyro is great cus a lot of decks are going wide. However, he turns on bolts for the opponent. Jace is a rod in light of that, and he also serves as a Snap engine (Snap #5&6), in addition to toning down enemy aggro. Against anything control or GBx, I replace the 2 Pyro with 2 Glen Elendra Archmage. She's persistent against removal and a great value card for grindy matches (and she blocks/counters souls, while recurring herself).
I might test 1 Lavamancer over 1 Jace. I tried it during a casual match and it was great.
1x Blood Crypt
2x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
4x Serum Visions
1x Echoing Truth
1x Go for the Throat
3x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
3x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
2x Gurmag Angler
2x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Young Pyromancer
1x Countersquall
1x Damnation
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
3x Fulminator Mage
2x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Spellskite
So here's what I'm planning to run on paper starting next week.. what do you guys think? The main deviations include the addition of Echoing Truth, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, and Young Pyromancer.
Echoing Truth handles a lot of fringe situations and is nasty when followed with a counter spell. Jace is Snap 5 and 6. He's fairly consistent with little investment. Pyro is nice right now since a lot of decks are going wide. He can get out of control against decks with little removal.
Two concerns:
I included 2x Glen Elendra Archmage to sub out Pyro against GBx and other control decks. It's worked well in some testing, but idk of this should be another dispel and something else like anew additional countersquall.
Also, is Olivia too slow right now? I was thinking of siding her in place of 1x Anger.
You could add Sedraxis Specter to that list (I'm trying a 1 of currently). Otherwise, try Rise // Fall or Electrolyze. Rise can possibly be another 2 for 1 which to me looks awesome for only RB It might have been mentioned somewhere in the thread already about Specter being bad or ineffective but I think he is worth a try since he isn't on any list seen. I'm aware he is bad vs tokens and Lingering Souls...
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Electrolyze is rarely terrible. Usually just underwhelming. It's what I'd play in my lists right now, even though I haven't touched modern in a month. You'd have to give us a more definite projection of what you see at tournaments to get a good, cut and dry, answer though.
I play with 3 Cryptic but it can be alot, sort of like the 3rd Gurmag Angler. What you'd sub in for it however, is a little less easy. Maybe a MD boardwipe.
The other thing to consider in your flex slot would be some kind of mid to late game card advantage to help in grindy games. People here have had a lot of success with Mulldrifter and Gifts Ungiven. The other option can just be random value cards like Glen Elendra Archmage, the deck handles one-of value spells really well.
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
Personally I really like to have one bounce spell. Sometimes it is the only way for us to deal with something once it hits the board. And I have used them to bounce my Snappy if I really need to. Currently using Echoing Truth. Works great against decks that go wide, which we seem to have a lot of problems with. Of the ones you listed I would say Rise/Fall. It does a ton of work.
Most players are on the 4 Snappy + 5 Dudes. Usually that is 2 Taz - 2 Anglers, with the last spot a flex slot. Another Angler, Vendilion, Kerenos, Mulldrifter or Glen Elen are popular choices. Really it is just a play style/meta choice. No real wrong answers.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
decks playing:
none
If you are having a lot of problems with Tokens or small dudes Izzet Staticaster is a house against them. It is really a meta call. I always have one in my sideboard, but one MB may work for you.
@mittinskittens - Echoing Truth -> V.Click works really well, just saying.
Modern
Currently Playing
UW UW Control/Miracles
R Skred Red
Retired
BU Faeries
RGW Naya Burn
BW B/W Tokens
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Halimar Depths
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
Creatures 12
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Keranos, God of Storms
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Snare
1 Dispel
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
3 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Cryptic Command
1 Rending Volley
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flashfreeze
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Bribery
1 Death's Shadow
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Mizzium Meddler
2 Dispel
2 Spellskite
It depends on how many Cryptics you're running. Unless you're going to play in the next week I would turn the slot into a Blighted Fen once Zendikar comes out. That's a very good land if you can handle colorless. Lavaclaw Reaches is fairly poor, if you want the manland though maybe try Faerie Conclave instead. I've gone back and forth on my Halimar Depths slot if I want another manland there or not. If I were to put one in it would be a Conclave since it's not as mana intensive and the deck already has enough mana sinks.
Run a Drowned Catacomb in its place, or a Desolate Lighthouse if you don't already have one.
UWR Control
Legacy:
W D&T
4x Anticipate
1x Brutal Expulsion
4x Cryptic Command
1x Deprive
1x Dispel
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Remand
2x Spell Snare
4x Terminate
4x Thought Scour
1x Blood Crypt
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Desolate Lighthouse
2x Island
1x Mountain
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Steam Vents
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
2x Gurmag Angler
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Sideboard
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Curse of Death's Hold
2x Dispel
3x Fulminator Mage
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Languish
1x Olivia Voldaren
2x Shatterstorm
I have been looking at this thread for a while. I would like if you guys to tell me how to update the list.
As for the rest of the list: Brutal Expulsion is probably terrible, you probably have too many Cryptic Commands by 1 or 2, and Pia and Kiran Nalaar is more than likely better served in the sideboard if anywhere. I'd replace the P+K with another Angler, and Expulsion+1 Cryptic for 2 Mana Leak.
Lantern Prison
Dredge
Nahiri Harbinger
Sad story guys
BGUSultai Shadow
BURGrixis Shadow
BGUSultai midrange
BRWMardu Pyromancer
BGRJund
You have to build a whole shell around Abbot. He doesn't work very well with a counter centric game plan, and he doesn't work well with high CMC spells. This specific shell is not a good place for Abbot.
I'm running a similar creature base and it's done pretty good so far. The only difference is I run 2 Jace in place of 1 Pyro and 1 Gurmag. Pyro is great cus a lot of decks are going wide. However, he turns on bolts for the opponent. Jace is a rod in light of that, and he also serves as a Snap engine (Snap #5&6), in addition to toning down enemy aggro. Against anything control or GBx, I replace the 2 Pyro with 2 Glen Elendra Archmage. She's persistent against removal and a great value card for grindy matches (and she blocks/counters souls, while recurring herself).
I might test 1 Lavamancer over 1 Jace. I tried it during a casual match and it was great.