I don't get why the very latest Grixis lists run 3-4 Drown in the Loch myself. Might be my experience trying the card in Niv-Mizzet Reborn Midrange-Control, but I found that Drown in the Loch couldn't kill or counter enough early-game, even as a 2-of. If the answer is because those Grixis lists play 4 Thought Scour, I though we were supposed to mill ourselves with that card, not mill our opponent and improve their card selection and Goyfs.
I don't get why the very latest Grixis lists run 3-4 Drown in the Loch myself. Might be my experience trying the card in Niv-Mizzet Reborn Midrange-Control, but I found that Drown in the Loch couldn't kill or counter enough early-game, even as a 2-of. If the answer is because those Grixis lists play 4 Thought Scour, I though we were supposed to mill ourselves with that card, not mill our opponent and improve their card selection and Goyfs.
Played with Mystic Sanctuary at FNM. The card is nuts. It was so good every time I fetched it. I'm only running one currently, and I don't want to cut Field of Ruins or more copies of Creeping Tar Pit for more copies. Perhaps the second Steam Vents goes for it? Or even the singluar Blood Crypt? In four FNMs now, I've not fetched the Rakdos shockland ever.
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Current favourite flavour text: "Forgive me, Master Kami, but in the interest of my people I must halt your advance." - Hold the Line.
I've been playing Magic for a couple years and I've bounced between Grixis Control and Grixis Shadow depending on the meta and my mood.
From what I gather (and also a good explanation in the Grixis Control primer over at MTGNexus: https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=194&sid=137d79c335833d4ecf2c996d385c8ab4), Grixis Control can be played a couple different ways. You've got Burkhart decks, sometimes Grixis gets more midrange-y, and you can play Grixis as Tap-Out control.
I'm really partial to Draw-Go and I've also looked through Patrick Chapin's books on Magic and on Deckbuilding and in even the most draw-go builds of Grixis Control, I don't see us playing a instant-speed finisher that allows us to win on the spot (Empty the Pits). While Grixis has impactful late-game spells, none of them generally win the game on the spot. Even when Jace got unbanned there was debate over not playing Jace if you were going to run Search for Azcanta. Even Grave Titan doesn't immediately win you the game, nor does Kalitas (he's OP in creature matchups and against graveyard decks), so I do wonder why we don't play Empty the Pits in pure draw-go fashion at opponent's end-step.
The reason I ask is because if we're able to stick Jace, Kalitas, Grave Titan, Gearhulk, or really any other kind of bomb then we are generally already winning and it just helps us close out the game faster than Creeping Tar Pit beats or Snapcaster beats (all the while this does give opponent time to top-deck removal that stops that gameplan).
TL;DR:
As I understand it, Empty the Pits is really the only kind of instant-speed finisher that will win the game on the spot. Does anybody know of any other similar spells for Grixis Control? Has anybody tried using Empty the Pits as the late-game bomb? If you did, how did you build the manabase because Empty the Pits does get a bit greedy?
P.S. Has anyone tried to make a hybrid Grixis Control/ Grixis Shadow deck that can transform between the two? Shadow gets played as a late game threat (you want to disrupt and discard and shock yourself before dropping Shadow), so why not run just two Shadows alongside two Tasigurs and make a core around Shadow, Tasigur, card-draw and cantrips, and upgrade the counter suite of Shadow? They're similar builds and depending how you've built your Shadow Deck or Control Deck, they gameplan is the same (there's the same core in terms of number of finisher creatures and card draw--mainly opt/visions/thought scour).
Thanks for reading and the discussion.
#LetsGetGrixyWithIt
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I'm with you on this one. Thought Scour is typically used to turn on our Snapcaster Mages, fuel Delve and give some targets for Kolaghan's Command. Drown in the Loch looks like good value, but I think the costs to turn it on make it worse than running Mana Leak and Fatal Push. I feel like this deck's biggest worry is early, and Drown in the Loch is more of a mid- or late-game card.
I'm not sold on Into the Story whatsoever. I've seen it being ran instead of Jace, the Mind Sculptor which just seems so much better.
Played with Mystic Sanctuary at FNM. The card is nuts. It was so good every time I fetched it. I'm only running one currently, and I don't want to cut Field of Ruins or more copies of Creeping Tar Pit for more copies. Perhaps the second Steam Vents goes for it? Or even the singluar Blood Crypt? In four FNMs now, I've not fetched the Rakdos shockland ever.
"Forgive me, Master Kami, but in the interest of my people I must halt your advance." - Hold the Line.
I've been playing Magic for a couple years and I've bounced between Grixis Control and Grixis Shadow depending on the meta and my mood.
From what I gather (and also a good explanation in the Grixis Control primer over at MTGNexus: https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=194&sid=137d79c335833d4ecf2c996d385c8ab4), Grixis Control can be played a couple different ways. You've got Burkhart decks, sometimes Grixis gets more midrange-y, and you can play Grixis as Tap-Out control.
I'm really partial to Draw-Go and I've also looked through Patrick Chapin's books on Magic and on Deckbuilding and in even the most draw-go builds of Grixis Control, I don't see us playing a instant-speed finisher that allows us to win on the spot (Empty the Pits). While Grixis has impactful late-game spells, none of them generally win the game on the spot. Even when Jace got unbanned there was debate over not playing Jace if you were going to run Search for Azcanta. Even Grave Titan doesn't immediately win you the game, nor does Kalitas (he's OP in creature matchups and against graveyard decks), so I do wonder why we don't play Empty the Pits in pure draw-go fashion at opponent's end-step.
The reason I ask is because if we're able to stick Jace, Kalitas, Grave Titan, Gearhulk, or really any other kind of bomb then we are generally already winning and it just helps us close out the game faster than Creeping Tar Pit beats or Snapcaster beats (all the while this does give opponent time to top-deck removal that stops that gameplan).
TL;DR:
As I understand it, Empty the Pits is really the only kind of instant-speed finisher that will win the game on the spot. Does anybody know of any other similar spells for Grixis Control? Has anybody tried using Empty the Pits as the late-game bomb? If you did, how did you build the manabase because Empty the Pits does get a bit greedy?
P.S. Has anyone tried to make a hybrid Grixis Control/ Grixis Shadow deck that can transform between the two? Shadow gets played as a late game threat (you want to disrupt and discard and shock yourself before dropping Shadow), so why not run just two Shadows alongside two Tasigurs and make a core around Shadow, Tasigur, card-draw and cantrips, and upgrade the counter suite of Shadow? They're similar builds and depending how you've built your Shadow Deck or Control Deck, they gameplan is the same (there's the same core in terms of number of finisher creatures and card draw--mainly opt/visions/thought scour).
Thanks for reading and the discussion.
#LetsGetGrixyWithIt