I've put away the countersqualls for sideboard and the collective brutalities are now main.
I was frequently dying without having the chance to cast my 8 commands, so I had to cut 1 kolaghan's and 1 cryptic and added 2 cantrips.
As I am now playing lower to the ground, I took out the thought scours and reduced tasigur to a single copy, swapping the other one for a Kalitas.
I'm using 3x opts and 3x serum visions and now I won't mulligan as often, and finding sideboard pieces is kinda easier.
Tribute to hunger is a pet card of mine, I enjoy having maindeck answer for hexproof fellas, emrakuls and other enormous creatures in general.
I'm enjoying the Anger of the gods instead of the damnation, but I dislike the mana requirements...
I'm not having any trouble against other control decks, except of course UR control, which is a nightmarish match-up. I have now a pretty strong sideboard against tron, so I'm sleeping a lil more peacefuly...
Any thoughts are welcome!
@Tiemuu how did your challenge go? lost track of you in between. Ended up 13th... jeskai though this time ^^
Did we play against each other? I went 4-3 and got 29th place, winning back the entry yet again. I beat ad nauseam and bogles but somehow lost against the ur moon decks. Anything can happen.
I feel pretty good about this deck and its current position in the meta; it beats up on humans, jeskai control, as well as the other creature decks that are cropping up to play against hollow one/humans. Due to Tasigur and Field of Ruin, I also believe it has a better game against tron than the current crop of Snapcaster mage decks in the meta.
Would you guys be interested in a tournament report/ discussion of specific choices?
well its like you said, its a 4 mana investment with no effect on the board. so it seems like a card that has both a low floor and high ceiling. there will be some cases where you can chain spells off the top of your deck, and others where you get no value for multiple turns.
that said, i dont think it is a waste of time testing it. itd be awesome if it ends up being a thing, though the chance seems fairly low.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Field sounds sketchy, but still a lot better than something like Keranos, which was a card people actually used to board (I have always thought that was wrong). I can't imagibe maindecking the card, though.
I'm now playing at mtgo as well (I'm using a budget version, flooded strands instead of scalding tarns, kalitas instead of collective brutalities, extirpates instead of extractions and precog. field instead of jace (roflmao) and I somehow managed to save ~$260) as I was really tired of xmage's slowness and glitches.
I hope to soon buy the remaining parts, really miss them scalding tarns.
@Tiemuuu
How are your match ups against tron? I've been losing to tron so many times in these lasts months that I'm just considering forfeiting the goddamn matchup.
I usually have a good time against aggro, combo and midrange decks. On the other hand, I've got abysmal matchups against Blood moons and Urza towers.
I have seen U/W decks running more mana leaks because it's harder for them to fill up their graveyards for Logic Knots and Azcanta flips.
For removal, I have never been hot on Dismember. Yes, you can kill a Hazoret sometimes, but it hurts a lot and you are essentially including 1 card in your mainboard to deal with with 1-2 sideboard cards from opponents. Dismember can be awkward again some Goyfs and Death Shadows, cannot kill Titans, and feels bad against the hyper aggro decks. I would rather just run a 3rd fatal push or if I think people are going big with creatures/blood moon, a third terminate.
I have been liking the 4/2/2 split, with 3 K-Command and some counters as additional support. I have tried the 3rd Fatal Push/Terminate and while I am never overwhelmingly disappointed with it, it is bad enough in control matchups and Tron such that I try to avoid it. For the same reason, I don't like including sweepers in the mainboard.
My current struggle is debating whether to go up 25 lands, and if so, what to cut.
Since grixis hasnt been good for me, I have some questions for you guys:
what do you think about collective brutality in place of thoughtseize/inquisition?
and what about cast down? It's easier on the colors and let's the deck be more black oriented.
What about a turbo Jace, vryn's prodigy list?
PS:
tbh, for me the problem with grixis is not having a clear perspective of the meta. yes humans and jeskai are good but how good? what percentage of each deck? It's very difficult for a deck like grixis who praises on efficiency to be good without a clear vision of the meta. I blame the deck dump for this, instead of having decks to focus we have false info the make some low percentage deck seem good.
The Nimble Obstructionists have not been bad. Great in the fairer match ups, at the very least making your opponent reconsider every fetch/activation. I also like how I can cycle it when I can read my opponent for having lots of removal in hand. Shockingly, a gatherer search shows it and V Clique are sadly tiers above other flash creatures (sorry Venser). V Clique's legendariness can be a drawback in multiples, and sometimes it just force cycles an opponent's card and dies to the removal they haven't been able to use yet. I usually side out Nimble against Affinity. I wish the cycle was just 1U since they continue to refuse to release Baleful Strix in Modern.
I dont love Collective Brutality main deck since for a lot of decks, the instants/sorceries are ancillary to their game plan, as opposed to planeswalkers (e.g. Lili, Teferi), artifacts, and enchantments (e.g. Blood Moon).
I guess the removal debate also depends on what else you got going on. I stick with 3 K Command because it can be clunky sometimes, especially when you haven't drawn a creature to recur, and run Serum Visions instead of Thought Scour. I also run 3 Fields of Ruin so man lands are less of a concern.
How are people feeling on Tasigur? I have not run him in a while since he's easily hateable now with all the Paths, Lilis, GY hate, and reflector mage around, but wanted to check if people disagree strongly.
I was going to table the request until next week, but given the comment on meta: Does anyone have any good/recent SB guides. If not, should we as a forum try and put down a foundation?
Considering deckbuilding, I'm using 24 lands and 8 commands.
I've managed to beat tron yesterday, I mulliganed agressively in the third game and was rewarded with some disdainful stroke, extraction and field of ruin.
Sided-in: 2x Disdainful stroke, 2x Ceremonious rejection, 2x Countersquall, 2x Surgical extraction.
Sided-out: 2x Fatal Push, 2x Inquisition of Kozilek, 3x Lightning Bolt, 1x Damnation.
Not sure if the sided cards were completly correct, though. I find lightning bolt really lackluster in this match, maybe shoul've taken out the 4 of them.
I was going to table the request until next week, but given the comment on meta: Does anyone have any good/recent SB guides. If not, should we as a forum try and put down a foundation?
This would be kind of useless for at least two reasons:
1) everyone plays their own list with their own sideboards. Deck composition affects your general strategy.
2) metagame and decks evolve constantly. There are about 50 viable archetypes that are trying out new tech. A sb guide could become obsolete in a week's time.
@Tiemuuu
How are your match ups against tron? I've been losing to tron so many times in these lasts months that I'm just considering forfeiting the goddamn matchup.
I usually have a good time against aggro, combo and midrange decks. On the other hand, I've got abysmal matchups against Blood moons and Urza towers.
didn't notice this comment until now. I don't have a recorded MU win%, but regular tron is something like 45-55 I'd say. Definitely an easier MU than decks like e-tron, living end, burn, bogles, ponza etc. I actually had a (somewhat lucky) 2-0 win against Tron in my latest 5-0 run. I was running hotter than the sun and didn't drop a single game: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1144475#online
BTW, if you have time, could you make a deck name change suggestion so that the archetype gets renamed into Grixis Control? Most of the lists that are called Delver are just Control lists and it bugs me to no end.
@Tiemuuu
How are your match ups against tron? I've been losing to tron so many times in these lasts months that I'm just considering forfeiting the goddamn matchup.
I usually have a good time against aggro, combo and midrange decks. On the other hand, I've got abysmal matchups against Blood moons and Urza towers.
didn't notice this comment until now. I don't have a recorded MU win%, but regular tron is something like 45-55 I'd say. Definitely an easier MU than decks like e-tron, living end, burn, bogles, ponza etc. I actually had a (somewhat lucky) 2-0 win against Tron in my latest 5-0 run. I was running hotter than the sun and didn't drop a single game: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1144475#online
BTW, if you have time, could you make a deck name change suggestion so that the archetype gets renamed into Grixis Control? Most of the lists that are called Delver are just Control lists and it bugs me to no end.
dude i love your list. i've been running something very similar, literally the only 4 cards that are different: your 3x AV and 1x Young Pyromancer are 2x Jace and 2x Azcanta in my 60. which means that your curve is quite a bit lower. but what's your reasoning to prefer AV over Search for Azcanta? do you think the meta is just too fast for it?
Thanks. Yeah, Search gives you infinite cards, but AV has notable upsides: I gives cards card at a much lower mana investment, opponent can't discard it if you're on the play, it can't get Abrupt Decayed/Maelstrom Pulsed, it can't get Fielded/GQ'd, and it doesn't get affected by grave hate like Leyline or Relic - the last point is far from trivial.
EDIT: sometimes I play a 2-1 split of AV and Search.
@Tiemuuu: I've seen you playing this list for quite some time now, grats on your repetitively good finishes. How has the relatively low land count been for you? Ever failed to get on mana in time? I also notice your high count on cantrips (SV, AV, TS), ever felt that it might be too much air?
Thanks in advance
Sorry for beating a dead horse here, but 22 lands and 8 cantrips were the industry standard until the modern pro tour. Sonetimes you need to dig for lands at the expense of not being able to cast other spells, but on the offset you flood less and find better interaction more often, especially post SB. Cantrips are probably fairly neutral in terms of improving the deck.
hey grinders, can I get your feedback on your GDS match ups and how you generally feel about it + how you sideboard against the deck? Sometimes I don't know if I should be leaving the snares inside for the young pyros out their board and their snaps. My past couple matches were pretty bad with the opp going t1
thoughtseize t2 thoughtseize+angler/shadow and I have no removal to let me get to snapcaster territory alive.
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Sorry for beating a dead horse here, but 22 lands and 8 cantrips were the industry standard until the modern pro tour. Sonetimes you need to dig for lands at the expense of not being able to cast other spells, but on the offset you flood less and find better interaction more often, especially post SB. Cantrips are probably fairly neutral in terms of improving the deck.
I'm inclined to the AV builds, just not sure If I want to try JVP main board and JTMS on the SB
Let me just ask one think, have you tried opt instead of serum visions?
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I'm not having any trouble against other control decks, except of course UR control, which is a nightmarish match-up. I have now a pretty strong sideboard against tron, so I'm sleeping a lil more peacefuly...
Any thoughts are welcome!
I think we benefit from it more than it hurts, but yes they`re a nombo
Did we play against each other? I went 4-3 and got 29th place, winning back the entry yet again. I beat ad nauseam and bogles but somehow lost against the ur moon decks. Anything can happen.
Youtube Channel
Grixis Control
4x Thought Scour
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Fatal Push
1x Spell Snare
2x Terminate
2x Logic Knot
4x Kolaghan’s Command
4x Cryptic Command
4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Search for Azcanta
1x Young Pyromancer
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
25 Land
4x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Watery Grave
2x Steam Vents
1x Blood Crypt
3x Island
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Drowned Catacomb
3x Field of Ruin
Sideboard
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Damnation
1x Dispel
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Countersquall
2x Vendillion Clique
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I feel pretty good about this deck and its current position in the meta; it beats up on humans, jeskai control, as well as the other creature decks that are cropping up to play against hollow one/humans. Due to Tasigur and Field of Ruin, I also believe it has a better game against tron than the current crop of Snapcaster mage decks in the meta.
Would you guys be interested in a tournament report/ discussion of specific choices?
Ir has been a fun card to play an a really good card advantage
I tried ir versus jeskai and mardu pyromancer, both times it gave me the game
that said, i dont think it is a waste of time testing it. itd be awesome if it ends up being a thing, though the chance seems fairly low.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Youtube Channel
I hope to soon buy the remaining parts, really miss them scalding tarns.
@Tiemuuu
How are your match ups against tron? I've been losing to tron so many times in these lasts months that I'm just considering forfeiting the goddamn matchup.
I usually have a good time against aggro, combo and midrange decks. On the other hand, I've got abysmal matchups against Blood moons and Urza towers.
For removal, I have never been hot on Dismember. Yes, you can kill a Hazoret sometimes, but it hurts a lot and you are essentially including 1 card in your mainboard to deal with with 1-2 sideboard cards from opponents. Dismember can be awkward again some Goyfs and Death Shadows, cannot kill Titans, and feels bad against the hyper aggro decks. I would rather just run a 3rd fatal push or if I think people are going big with creatures/blood moon, a third terminate.
I have been liking the 4/2/2 split, with 3 K-Command and some counters as additional support. I have tried the 3rd Fatal Push/Terminate and while I am never overwhelmingly disappointed with it, it is bad enough in control matchups and Tron such that I try to avoid it. For the same reason, I don't like including sweepers in the mainboard.
My current struggle is debating whether to go up 25 lands, and if so, what to cut.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/732512#paper
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
what do you think about collective brutality in place of thoughtseize/inquisition?
and what about cast down? It's easier on the colors and let's the deck be more black oriented.
What about a turbo Jace, vryn's prodigy list?
PS:
tbh, for me the problem with grixis is not having a clear perspective of the meta. yes humans and jeskai are good but how good? what percentage of each deck? It's very difficult for a deck like grixis who praises on efficiency to be good without a clear vision of the meta. I blame the deck dump for this, instead of having decks to focus we have false info the make some low percentage deck seem good.
I dont love Collective Brutality main deck since for a lot of decks, the instants/sorceries are ancillary to their game plan, as opposed to planeswalkers (e.g. Lili, Teferi), artifacts, and enchantments (e.g. Blood Moon).
I guess the removal debate also depends on what else you got going on. I stick with 3 K Command because it can be clunky sometimes, especially when you haven't drawn a creature to recur, and run Serum Visions instead of Thought Scour. I also run 3 Fields of Ruin so man lands are less of a concern.
How are people feeling on Tasigur? I have not run him in a while since he's easily hateable now with all the Paths, Lilis, GY hate, and reflector mage around, but wanted to check if people disagree strongly.
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
Considering deckbuilding, I'm using 24 lands and 8 commands.
I've managed to beat tron yesterday, I mulliganed agressively in the third game and was rewarded with some disdainful stroke, extraction and field of ruin.
Sided-in: 2x Disdainful stroke, 2x Ceremonious rejection, 2x Countersquall, 2x Surgical extraction.
Sided-out: 2x Fatal Push, 2x Inquisition of Kozilek, 3x Lightning Bolt, 1x Damnation.
Not sure if the sided cards were completly correct, though. I find lightning bolt really lackluster in this match, maybe shoul've taken out the 4 of them.
This would be kind of useless for at least two reasons:
1) everyone plays their own list with their own sideboards. Deck composition affects your general strategy.
2) metagame and decks evolve constantly. There are about 50 viable archetypes that are trying out new tech. A sb guide could become obsolete in a week's time.
Youtube Channel
didn't notice this comment until now. I don't have a recorded MU win%, but regular tron is something like 45-55 I'd say. Definitely an easier MU than decks like e-tron, living end, burn, bogles, ponza etc. I actually had a (somewhat lucky) 2-0 win against Tron in my latest 5-0 run. I was running hotter than the sun and didn't drop a single game: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1144475#online
BTW, if you have time, could you make a deck name change suggestion so that the archetype gets renamed into Grixis Control? Most of the lists that are called Delver are just Control lists and it bugs me to no end.
Youtube Channel
Thanks. Yeah, Search gives you infinite cards, but AV has notable upsides: I gives cards card at a much lower mana investment, opponent can't discard it if you're on the play, it can't get Abrupt Decayed/Maelstrom Pulsed, it can't get Fielded/GQ'd, and it doesn't get affected by grave hate like Leyline or Relic - the last point is far from trivial.
EDIT: sometimes I play a 2-1 split of AV and Search.
Youtube Channel
Sorry for beating a dead horse here, but 22 lands and 8 cantrips were the industry standard until the modern pro tour. Sonetimes you need to dig for lands at the expense of not being able to cast other spells, but on the offset you flood less and find better interaction more often, especially post SB. Cantrips are probably fairly neutral in terms of improving the deck.
Youtube Channel
thoughtseize t2 thoughtseize+angler/shadow and I have no removal to let me get to snapcaster territory alive.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
I'm inclined to the AV builds, just not sure If I want to try JVP main board and JTMS on the SB
Let me just ask one think, have you tried opt instead of serum visions?