Hey everyone, I just felt like promoting myself a little here now. If you're interested in watching grixis control streams, I'm planning on streaming every Modern Challenge I can join (they launch at 15:00 UTC each Saturday, in case you didn't know). I can't play in the one that's coming up though, but after that. I'm also going to stream my league runs during the week when I have free evenings, starting probably somewhere between 10:00 - 15:00 UTC until 00:00 UTC. So if you're interested in stuff like that, drop me a follow, my username on twitch is Tiemuuuu.
Thanks for the comment. Are you sure you're not looking at someone elses list there? I have more countermagic in my MD than the average grixis player with 2 snares, 2 Leaks and 2 Remands on top of the 3 Cryptics.
Big Grixis control fan, but I do have to point out something...Just watched the KCI matchup where you ignored the one person in chat telling you to board in surgical v. KCI. Not sure how new you are to playing this list, but when a combo deck is ALL IN on one card, especially one you can counter like KCI, surgical is your best card after the counterspell. I might have boarded out AV instead of bolt, not sure...but surgical is made for this matchup and KCI is weak to artifact hate AND grave hate.
I will watch more of the stream, but I was disappointed you defended your decision to not board it in at 3:24:00 when I think it would have been a chance to level up and acknowledge that “Kaisermagus” was right and you were wrong.
EDIT: oh god, and then you didn’t board it in v. Storm?! Why the *&$#@% are you running a graveyard hate card like surgical if you aren’t going to bring it in versus...um,, I dunno, graveyard decks?! At 3:35:30, you defend keeping in AV for its “mana-efficiency”. Since surgical costs zero, it’s the most mana-efficient card in your deck! Not sure that AV is usually a winning line against a turn 3-4 combo deck that’s on the play, mana-efficient or not. Seriously though, if surgical doesn’t come in versus these two graveyard decks AND you refuse to listen to the chat’s informed opinion, you should run two cards you WILL play in your sideboard that have broader applications.
Big Grixis control fan, but I do have to point out something...Just watched the KCI matchup where you ignored the one person in chat telling you to board in surgical v. KCI. Not sure how new you are to playing this list, but when a combo deck is ALL IN on one card, especially one you can counter like KCI, surgical is your best card after the counterspell. I might have boarded out AV instead of bolt, not sure...but surgical is made for this matchup and KCI is weak to artifact hate AND grave hate.
I will watch more of the stream, but I was disappointed you defended your decision to not board it in at 3:24:00 when I think it would have been a chance to level up and acknowledge that “Kaisermagus” was right and you were wrong.
EDIT: oh god, and then you didn’t board it in v. Storm?! Why the *&$#@% are you running a graveyard hate card like surgical if you aren’t going to bring it in versus...um,, I dunno, graveyard decks?! At 3:35:30, you defend keeping in AV for its “mana-efficiency”. Since surgical costs zero, it’s the most mana-efficient card in your deck! Not sure that AV is usually a winning line against a turn 3-4 combo deck that’s on the play, mana-efficient or not. Seriously though, if surgical doesn’t come in versus these two graveyard decks AND you refuse to listen to the chat’s informed opinion, you should run two cards you WILL play in your sideboard that have broader applications.
Hey, I appreciate you checking out the VOD and giving your comments on my decisions. I'm not sure whether you genuinely want to know, but I've played Grixis decks since DTK came out, and control a few months before SOI did.
When discussing card selections, keep in mind that my deck's composition is different compared to someobe elses list. Not saying that comes into play in these scenarios but anyway. I think it would have good to bring Surgical in against KCI, but as I mentioned in the video, I didn't find the cuts. Maybe it could have been two bolts, or bolt and AV, not sure. It's not something I'd freak over though. KCI doesn't usually bin its own namesake card, so I would have had to already counter the spell, which makes the card somewhat suspect. I'm sure I've boarded the card in in the past, but I also want to experiment with things. I was reluctant to cut on the bolts, since in the past I've lost horribly to KCI for not respecting Trawler enough.
As for Storm, we can make a deal: if you're in the chat while I get paired against Storm, I'll bring my Surgicals in. Otherwise I'm probably sticking with my current plan.
Storm and KCI are both fast on paper, but usually these games tend to drag on since people respect counters. AV is quite good in these MUs.
As for MUs where I do bring in Surgicals, here's what I came up with:
Ad Nauseam
Dredge
Grishoalbrand
Tron
Living End
Lantern
(EDIT: probably anything with Vengevine)
Should definitely be bringing in surgical for both storm and KCI, no reason to keep bolt in- you're not going to burn them out quick enough for it to be more relevant than potentially blowing them out with a well targeted surgical.
Should definitely be bringing in surgical for both storm and KCI, no reason to keep bolt in- you're not going to burn them out quick enough for it to be more relevant than potentially blowing them out with a well targeted surgical.
Bolt is mainly to answer Trawler. Still, it's possible Bolt could be cut for Surgicals. I'm undecided on the matter.
so, how do you guys beat hollow one? i'm not seeing it enough to commit slots especially to that matchup, but when i see it, I close to never win. the matchup is horrible. I can answer most of their threats but die to leftovers (Bloodhgast or Phoenix). Surgical doesnt bother Hollow One and Angler, Anger of the Gods misses them, damnation cant keep bloodghasts and phoenix down
..
i'm at a loss tbh. short of Leyline of the void out of SB, i see no path to victory
You can run Anger of the Gods over Damnation as a hedge against Hollow One, and we do have a few MD answers to their big guys (K-Command, Terminate, Dreadbore). But you're pretty much on the money; that deck is kind of built to crap on interaction by hitting from as many angles as possible.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I am happy we are so lively. I have been running 2 surgicals and 2 nihil spellbomb, but its pretty inconsistent. In addition to Hollow One, I have notice that Living End, KCI, and Dredge have been creeping up on MTGO, at least. I have been considering Leyline of the Void. Anyone else have thoughts or experience?
I actually have been pretty unimpressed with Anger and Surgical as sideboard options. For Anger, it's usually boarded in versus the go-wide decks like Humans or Elves, or against the graveyard decks. Against the wide-strategies, it usually just gets used as a 1-for-1 or a 2-for-1 at best, because the deck has so much removal and people play around it. It could just as easily be another value card like Electrolyze 90% of the time.
I am also relatively more conservative with siding in Surgical Extraction. I join in the opinion that it's the most over-sideboarded card in Modern. The only deck that I bring it in against that doesn't run graveyard cards is Tron, and even that is a concession to me having a lot of chafe. Most combo decks you can just rely on your countermagic to keep them in check. Tron is now on the downswing due to Dampening Sphere being in more sideboards. The only matchup where Lelyline is probably worse is Storm, since they can bounce Leyline before going off. I also am running Serum Visions over Thought Scour so there is less incentive to keep Surgical.
Yeah. I understand that. The argument for Leyline is that against those unfair graveyard matches, most of the time you just cant keep a good grixis control 7 and need to mulligan to hate. And for decks like Hollow One, Living End, and Dredge, one piece of hate is not going to help most of the time; rather you need have multiple forms of hate in your opening hand. Talking about topping Leyline later in the game does not really apply when you likely arent making it past turn 1-2 draws, and your opponent has already abused the graveyard. So instead of hoping to chain hate cards, why not just mull to a game winning card in those match ups.
Put differently, if you accept that Surgical isn't that great against Tron or non-graveyard based combo (e.g. look at @Tiemuuu's sboard plan against Storm), is it worth switching Surgical and Nihil Spellbomb to Leyline if Hollow One, Storm, Living End, and Dredge continue to creep up in meta-share? (The counterarguments I can think of are hyper-geometric distributions, overvaluing the impact of Leyline, meta is not that bad, etc.) And as a corollary, do people feel Surgical is a good sideboard card insofar that it converts unfavorable matchups to fair or good ones? (Sure it may help when 1 or 2 matches from time to time, but if we are just converting a 25% match-up to a 40%, why not just devote the sideboard slot to something more effective, in the same way some people eschew burn hate, for example?)
Played this at fnm, I went 3/1
Round one I played against mill: got demolished game one, game two I was able to control with discard, and game three was awesome!!! Game three opp archive traps me and I drop a turn 1 gurmag angler and ride it to victory.
Round two I played against eldrazi tron, I kinda hoped to ignore the tron matchup and I feel now after the tourney I could devote more sideboard to it and be fine.
Round 3 I played against devoted druid with naya colors and had mono removal and planeswalkers, couldnt be a better matchup.
Round 4 I played against affinity and the 4 kolaghan's command did work.
Some thoughts are most lists people are playing are vastly different but I wanted to chime in and say this list I like a lot. I only have 2 snapcasters that's why I'm playing gearhulk and vryn's prodigy so I still have 4 of those effects. I don't think I'm ever playing a black deck without 4 liliana of the veil. Mind sculptor was also very good, being able to fateseal and close out some games. I didn't get to play against jund, which I'd really like to test. I'm sure I need some spreading seas in the board, and I don't have any field of ruin so that's why they're excluded. I really liked having a flawless manabase and it really helped with consistency. Plus, with my games against tron field of ruin might not have even mattered. He had natural tron game 1 and turn 1 expedition map game 2 into turn 3 tron. Without huge changes to the main deck, what are some suggestions on sideboard?
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Every successful deck has a 1-drop, and a way to gain life.
Hey everyone! Made an account to finally start posting and hopefully contribute to tuning these lists! I'm planning on posting my results here (mainly play in paper so it'll be somewhat infrequent).
Hey everyone! Made an account to finally start posting and hopefully contribute to tuning these lists! I'm planning on posting my results here (mainly play in paper so it'll be somewhat infrequent).
Trying to keep this list together and play it for a few weeks as I have a tendency to tinker like crazy before getting a valid sample size.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
8 cantrips seems quite high to me.
I take it you're just giving up the tron match up?
0 land destruction anywhere just seems a bit brave IMO. Only having 2 Damping Sphere doesn't seem enough.
I also feel this line up is very weak to dredge, with no anger of the gods.
@Gods_Shadow: how much do you value the Liliana of the Veil in your build? I have been digging LtlH, but have been hesitant to embrace the Veil. I guess the deciding factor for me is that my build is less proactive.
I am thinking about going up to from two to three Search for Azcanta. Anyone have any actual experience with running a set? I will report back regardless.
EDIT: you can see I've played in a few recent challenges: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/Tiemuuu
EDIT: in fact I streamed the last challenge, modern gameplay starts at 1:30 or so: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/252835610
Youtube Channel
Youtube Channel
I will watch more of the stream, but I was disappointed you defended your decision to not board it in at 3:24:00 when I think it would have been a chance to level up and acknowledge that “Kaisermagus” was right and you were wrong.
EDIT: oh god, and then you didn’t board it in v. Storm?! Why the *&$#@% are you running a graveyard hate card like surgical if you aren’t going to bring it in versus...um,, I dunno, graveyard decks?! At 3:35:30, you defend keeping in AV for its “mana-efficiency”. Since surgical costs zero, it’s the most mana-efficient card in your deck! Not sure that AV is usually a winning line against a turn 3-4 combo deck that’s on the play, mana-efficient or not. Seriously though, if surgical doesn’t come in versus these two graveyard decks AND you refuse to listen to the chat’s informed opinion, you should run two cards you WILL play in your sideboard that have broader applications.
Hey, I appreciate you checking out the VOD and giving your comments on my decisions. I'm not sure whether you genuinely want to know, but I've played Grixis decks since DTK came out, and control a few months before SOI did.
When discussing card selections, keep in mind that my deck's composition is different compared to someobe elses list. Not saying that comes into play in these scenarios but anyway. I think it would have good to bring Surgical in against KCI, but as I mentioned in the video, I didn't find the cuts. Maybe it could have been two bolts, or bolt and AV, not sure. It's not something I'd freak over though. KCI doesn't usually bin its own namesake card, so I would have had to already counter the spell, which makes the card somewhat suspect. I'm sure I've boarded the card in in the past, but I also want to experiment with things. I was reluctant to cut on the bolts, since in the past I've lost horribly to KCI for not respecting Trawler enough.
As for Storm, we can make a deal: if you're in the chat while I get paired against Storm, I'll bring my Surgicals in. Otherwise I'm probably sticking with my current plan.
Storm and KCI are both fast on paper, but usually these games tend to drag on since people respect counters. AV is quite good in these MUs.
As for MUs where I do bring in Surgicals, here's what I came up with:
Ad Nauseam
Dredge
Grishoalbrand
Tron
Living End
Lantern
(EDIT: probably anything with Vengevine)
Youtube Channel
Bolt is mainly to answer Trawler. Still, it's possible Bolt could be cut for Surgicals. I'm undecided on the matter.
Youtube Channel
You can run Anger of the Gods over Damnation as a hedge against Hollow One, and we do have a few MD answers to their big guys (K-Command, Terminate, Dreadbore). But you're pretty much on the money; that deck is kind of built to crap on interaction by hitting from as many angles as possible.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
I am also relatively more conservative with siding in Surgical Extraction. I join in the opinion that it's the most over-sideboarded card in Modern. The only deck that I bring it in against that doesn't run graveyard cards is Tron, and even that is a concession to me having a lot of chafe. Most combo decks you can just rely on your countermagic to keep them in check. Tron is now on the downswing due to Dampening Sphere being in more sideboards. The only matchup where Lelyline is probably worse is Storm, since they can bounce Leyline before going off. I also am running Serum Visions over Thought Scour so there is less incentive to keep Surgical.
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
Put differently, if you accept that Surgical isn't that great against Tron or non-graveyard based combo (e.g. look at @Tiemuuu's sboard plan against Storm), is it worth switching Surgical and Nihil Spellbomb to Leyline if Hollow One, Storm, Living End, and Dredge continue to creep up in meta-share? (The counterarguments I can think of are hyper-geometric distributions, overvaluing the impact of Leyline, meta is not that bad, etc.) And as a corollary, do people feel Surgical is a good sideboard card insofar that it converts unfavorable matchups to fair or good ones? (Sure it may help when 1 or 2 matches from time to time, but if we are just converting a 25% match-up to a 40%, why not just devote the sideboard slot to something more effective, in the same way some people eschew burn hate, for example?)
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
4 Thing in the Ice
3 Snapcaster Mage
Land
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Blood Crypt
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
3 Polluted Delta
4 Field of Ruin
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Cryptic Command
4 Manamorphose
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thought Scour
4 Kolaghan's Command
1 Opt
1 Terminate
Sorcery
1 Dreadbore
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Izzet Staticaster
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Counterflux
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Stone Rain
1 Vandalblast
1 Duress
Played this at fnm, I went 3/1
Round one I played against mill: got demolished game one, game two I was able to control with discard, and game three was awesome!!! Game three opp archive traps me and I drop a turn 1 gurmag angler and ride it to victory.
Round two I played against eldrazi tron, I kinda hoped to ignore the tron matchup and I feel now after the tourney I could devote more sideboard to it and be fine.
Round 3 I played against devoted druid with naya colors and had mono removal and planeswalkers, couldnt be a better matchup.
Round 4 I played against affinity and the 4 kolaghan's command did work.
Some thoughts are most lists people are playing are vastly different but I wanted to chime in and say this list I like a lot. I only have 2 snapcasters that's why I'm playing gearhulk and vryn's prodigy so I still have 4 of those effects. I don't think I'm ever playing a black deck without 4 liliana of the veil. Mind sculptor was also very good, being able to fateseal and close out some games. I didn't get to play against jund, which I'd really like to test. I'm sure I need some spreading seas in the board, and I don't have any field of ruin so that's why they're excluded. I really liked having a flawless manabase and it really helped with consistency. Plus, with my games against tron field of ruin might not have even mattered. He had natural tron game 1 and turn 1 expedition map game 2 into turn 3 tron. Without huge changes to the main deck, what are some suggestions on sideboard?
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
"Reveal a Dragon"
Anyway, here is what I am currently running:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/954785#paper
Trying to keep this list together and play it for a few weeks as I have a tendency to tinker like crazy before getting a valid sample size.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
8 cantrips seems quite high to me.
I take it you're just giving up the tron match up?
0 land destruction anywhere just seems a bit brave IMO. Only having 2 Damping Sphere doesn't seem enough.
I also feel this line up is very weak to dredge, with no anger of the gods.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Youtube Channel
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!
* Grixis Control A!
* Grixis Control B!