So is anyone else happy about the top 8 of the pro tour being mostly favorable for us?
I have been on another deck recently but of the meta shifts because people want to play the winningest decks, I may need to dust off the good Ole proc list...
Yes, I'm very happy. Mardu Pyromancer, Hollow One, Humans are good matches.
Abzan and Death's Shadow are even (slight favorable for they). UR Pyromancer didn't played against it, so can't tell if it's good.
Lantern is a very bad matchup.
But if you look at the decks with 8+ wins (link: MTGGoldFish), you will see a lot of bad matches: Eldrazi Tron, UW Control, BW Eldrazi, Bogles, Lantern Control, Tron, Storm. A lot of even matches (Death's Shadow, Grixis Control) and a few good matches (Affinity, Hollow One, Burn, Humans).
Overall I think the meta is slight favorable to Martyr
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Current playing:
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
Played ten leagues on MOL:
2 times 2-3
5 times 3-2
3 times 4-1
Affinity (3 matches // 1 win) Burn (2 matches // 0 win) Death's Shadow (Grixis) (1 match // 1 win) Hollow One (5 matches // 3 win) Humans (2 matches // 2 win) Infect (2 matches // 1 win) Merfolk (2 matches // 2 win) Zoo (1 match // 1 win) CoCo (Counters Company) (1 match // 0 win) Copy Cat (Saheeli Combo) (1 match // 1 win) Dredge (2 matches // 2 win) Gx Tron (1 match // 0 win) Instant Reanimator (Griselshoal) (1 match // 1 win) Kiki-Jiki (Twin Style) (2 matches // 0 win) Living End (As Foretold) (1 match // 1 win) Titan Breach (1 match // 0 win) UR Storm (3 matches // 1 win) Jeskai Control (1 match // 1 win) MartyrProc (2 matches // 2 win) WR Prison (1 match // 1 win) BGx Midrange (Abzan) (3 matches // 3 win) BW Eldrazi (1 match // 1 win) Eldrazi Tron (4 matches // 1 win) Faeries (2 matches // 1 win) Mardu Pyromancer (3 matches // 3 win) RG Ponza (LD) (1 match // 0 win) Value Town (GW Company) (1 match // 1 win)
Wall of Omens + Dusk//Dawn is game changing against BGx Midrange, Mardy Pyromancer, Death's Shadow and Hollow One.
This matches became much easier because of this recursion.
Dusk//Dawn has its applications in matches where Wrath of God isn't good (UW Control, Jeskai Control).
I only miss Wrath of God against Affinity, Burn, Collected Company (bad matchup with or without Wrath), Dark Confidant and Tokens.
In comparison with Wrath, the upside of Dusk//Dawn against Humans, BGx, Mardu Pyromancer, Hollow One, Death's Shadow overcomes the downside
I'm with 60% win percentage, which I think is very good.
Hangarback in the sideboard was surprisingly good. Now it has a reserved slot such as Hex Parasite.
Now I feel that we are the old grind deck as in the times where Jund was the deck to beat.
Actually, Burning-Tree Shaman can hit decks like Lantern, Jund and etc. that have a lot of abilities. So this card is one of the main reasons to play red as I see. If you don't want to play Wishes - there're anologues in monoRed color. See Harsh Mentor.
Black also adds cranial effect cards that can be game breaking in some games, especially against combos. Prob black gives the most number of disrupt spells against opponents for Martyr deck.
I don't like Nahiri - she costs a lot so she can't improve our bad match ups. So I don't see red as a splash color for now, only prob in combination with black for Slaughter games, Crumble to dust and etc. strong hate cards.
About beeing 30+ life. I don't like Serra Scendant and think that he's too bad with Fatal push and Path to exile in meta also it's pretty hard to keep 30+ in 2+ color manabases. That's why I like Thraben inspector more, especially with Gavony township.
Yeah, you're writing right about Justice. It's also good removal against Shadow decks. The same reson I like Ajani too - he can hit planeswalkers and control board like small Gideon but have more relevant ult ability.
LD plan with Crucible is way too long. It's possible only if you play Ghostly prisons and can "lock" opponent by cutting his lands to number you need. But without that and with Ralliers it's just value card focusing on lands only. And for early stabalization you can use Ralliers. Yeah, love ralliers too but sometimes they're a bit nonuniversal.
I see idea of using big one to protect Nahiri but Small and only 1 copy? I don't think he will do much and other 3 drop will be better than 1 of Trial.
You can change wall of Omens for Thraben Inspector. They're good 1 drop to play on first turn and can be recycled with Proclamation.
Played three more leagues: 3-2, 4-1, 4-1. Wins: Hollow One (3x), Humans (2x), Affinity, Titan Breach, Mardu Pyromancer, D&T, Burn, UW Control Losses: Abzan (lose because of time, problems with Internet), UW Control, Collected Company Value (no combos), Ux Tron
Can you explain about Hangarback Walker a bit more? Where you find him good?
About Hangarback Walker:
1) It's only one copy (1 slot)
2) It's good against Fatal Push
3) Can be tutored with Ranger of Eos
4) Grow itself with only one mana
5) Good against Liliana of the Veil
6) Is Colorless (All Is Dust)
The matches where I sided it in:
--> BG, Jund, Abzan, Death's Shadow, Mardu Pyromancer, Hollow One, Jeskai Control, Eldrazi Tron, Grixis Control and Delver decks.
In these matches, Serra Ascendant isn't good: they have too much discard, they have one mana removal (Fatal Push), they do too much damage in a fast way (Lightning Bolt, turn 1 or 2 big creatures) or they always plays Chalice for one.
When you side out Serra Ascendant, Ranger of Eos becomes worse: you need a target to keep him decent.
Walking Ballista is very slow, but Hangarback Walker does not need too much mana: with four manas you have a 2/2 that can chump block for three turns, or can grow to a 4/4 on two turns spending only one mana per turn.
But most of all, you can cast Hangarback for 2:
i) if you have it on your starting hand or
ii) if you fetch with Ranger of Eos, use the two remaining manas to cast Squadron Hawk to chump (or Wall of Omens in my case). Next turn you can cast another Squadron Hawk for 1W, have 1 to grow Hangarback and you will left with one mana (to cast Path, for example)
Against those decks, Hangarback Walker is a slow, but a steady source of advantage. Every turn it stays in the battlefield, it grows bigger and will create an additional token when dies.
Last league I was paired against a Hollow One deck (GR Hollow One with Vengevine).
I was at 11, he was at 20. The battlefield has a Vengevine, a Insolent Neonate and a Flameblade Adept.
He had two cards in hand, my hand was Serra Ascendant, Cast Out and land, we both have three lands. My draw was Ranger of Eos. I fetch for Hangarback and Martyr of Sands.
Ranger of Eos get bolted and he swings for 6 (I'm at 5). Next turn I cast Hangarback for two and Martyr, that blocks Vengevine and gains 9 life (I'm at 12). Next turn I'm obliged to cast Serra Ascendant, block Flameblade Adept with Hangarback and Serra (Life total 8). Next turn I land another creature, block Neonate (Life total 4), he casts Hollow One. I use Cast Out on Vengevine and has a 4/4 to block Hollow One, leaving me with 4 tokens.
This is a common case when you play against those grindy matchups.
Not to mention that on my list he can still come back with Dusk//Dawn
I think you have to try Hangarback Walker in sideboard if you are not playing Glittering Wish.
JtMS is pretty bad for Martyr-Proc, I think. Out-controlling UW was always hard. With the card advantage from Jace, I don't know if it's at all manageable anymore.
New here, I've been running mono-white Martyr-Proc that Saffron Olive did his budget videos on.
Reading through some of the past posts, I notice that people have started to run Cast Out in place of O-ring. Since we're talking about answers for JtMS, I hope this question is appropriate.
Can someone in favor of O-ring list pro's and cons, and likewise for Cast out?
If I ran cast out, I don't see many match-ups where I would cycle it, since even storm has Baral/electromancer as targets. The flash I could see being helpful, but not against JtMS or other walkers. I'm not sure how often I would hold it up at instant speed, but not having played it I'm very curious about that aspect. I can see the extra (1) cost mattering, as getting Baral on turn 3 can make all the difference in the world.
Terrible idea: Splash UU for Jace ourselves. I've not personally played with Jace outside of cube before, but from what I've seen, if he's protected, you can just get ridiculously far ahead fairly quickly. He isn't white, which is a gigantic pain. However, I feel like his raw power could be high enough to offset this fact and earn him a slot or two in the deck, nonetheless.
I've been off the deck for a long time, so I'm naturally less in tune with what the deck lacks, and Jace is probably not the answer. The first question I had to re-ask myself was, "why not just play straight U/W," and that just diverges off-topic >.<
As a slower midrange deck which is often forced to play the grind game, JtMS could be a serviceable tool in my eyes. Additionally, the blue splash allows us to upgrade some number of *** to Supreme Verdict and O-ring to Detention Sphere, among other things. Does this sound way too crazy, or just partly crazy to the rest of you all?
Cast out helps to fight mana screw, search for ***, Proclamation or other pieces you need for now.
Only + O-ring has is it's 1 mana less cost but it's small + in term of Abrupt Decay.
Flsh is pretty usefull when you can crack clues, use mistveil, sit on PtE and etc.
As you said - better just play better Ux deck with Jace.
All answers he have against JTMS are temporary or can be answered by opp with his mainboard cards. That's why I see Martyr Proc dead against Jace decks.
Hi everyone, just started playing the deck (see below), and I don't know if the jace unban is really that bad for us. UWx matchups will be worse (but we do run catch all answer like oblivion ring and serra ascendant can present a real pressure), but the meta will move towards fast aggro decks, which are our best matches. Tron will also fall out of flavor, which is good for us. Some tweaks will have to be made with jace in mind, but maybe the overall effect will be positive.
This is the list I was planing to take to fnm's (before Jace unban). Didn't put it to the test yet, have only played a bant version once some months ago and had problems closing games on time (lack of experience, most likely, but decided to wait for serra ascendant before trying again anyways):
I've been thinking about the Jace question. I'm currently playing Demannic's Black version. (mostly - I like the Vizkopa combo more than he does - lets me finish games quicker)
I think Jace will warp Modern. If he starts showing up in my local meta I'm going probably going to find a way to add in the full 4 copies of Anguished Unmaking. Its a hard answer compared to the removable Banishing Light enchantments. What to take out I'm not sure.
I never played in the Jace standard but I do know that if they tap out turn 4 for Jace I might be happy. Then I can play Ranger of Eos or activate the Vizcopa Combo without worry about a counter/bounce spell. Cryptic Command is the stupidest card.
Has anyone played a RW version of Martyr to run Lightning Helix? That could be helpful against aggro, and be a way to hit Jace (especially if they are brainstorming or bouncing right away).
Lately I've been playing a lot against UW control, and I'm debating trying out Hour of revelation. Any thoughts on this in a *** slot or in place of Fracturing Gust for the Mono-W version? I'll have to try counting nl-permanents next time I play and see how often I can play it for WWW.
Speaking of Needle vs. Spyglass, what do you guys think is the better move? Spyglass seems fantastic against UW, but there are a lot of games where we need to hit certain things on turn 2, but not on turn 1.
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I have been on another deck recently but of the meta shifts because people want to play the winningest decks, I may need to dust off the good Ole proc list...
Abzan and Death's Shadow are even (slight favorable for they). UR Pyromancer didn't played against it, so can't tell if it's good.
Lantern is a very bad matchup.
But if you look at the decks with 8+ wins (link: MTGGoldFish), you will see a lot of bad matches: Eldrazi Tron, UW Control, BW Eldrazi, Bogles, Lantern Control, Tron, Storm. A lot of even matches (Death's Shadow, Grixis Control) and a few good matches (Affinity, Hollow One, Burn, Humans).
Overall I think the meta is slight favorable to Martyr
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
7 Plains
2 Mistveil Plains
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Field of Ruin
1 Crucible of Worlds
Creatures (22)
1 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Martyr of Sands
4 Serra Ascendant
4 Wall of Omens
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Ranger of Eos
1 Walking Ballista
4 Path to Exile
1 Proclamation of Rebirth
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Dusk // Dawn
3 Cast Out
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Hex Parasite
1 Hangarback Walker
2 Celestial Purge
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Disenchant
2 Nevermore
1 Wrath of God
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Played ten leagues on MOL:
2 times 2-3
5 times 3-2
3 times 4-1
Affinity (3 matches // 1 win)
Burn (2 matches // 0 win)
Death's Shadow (Grixis) (1 match // 1 win)
Hollow One (5 matches // 3 win)
Humans (2 matches // 2 win)
Infect (2 matches // 1 win)
Merfolk (2 matches // 2 win)
Zoo (1 match // 1 win)
CoCo (Counters Company) (1 match // 0 win)
Copy Cat (Saheeli Combo) (1 match // 1 win)
Dredge (2 matches // 2 win)
Gx Tron (1 match // 0 win)
Instant Reanimator (Griselshoal) (1 match // 1 win)
Kiki-Jiki (Twin Style) (2 matches // 0 win)
Living End (As Foretold) (1 match // 1 win)
Titan Breach (1 match // 0 win)
UR Storm (3 matches // 1 win)
Jeskai Control (1 match // 1 win)
MartyrProc (2 matches // 2 win)
WR Prison (1 match // 1 win)
BGx Midrange (Abzan) (3 matches // 3 win)
BW Eldrazi (1 match // 1 win)
Eldrazi Tron (4 matches // 1 win)
Faeries (2 matches // 1 win)
Mardu Pyromancer (3 matches // 3 win)
RG Ponza (LD) (1 match // 0 win)
Value Town (GW Company) (1 match // 1 win)
Wall of Omens + Dusk//Dawn is game changing against BGx Midrange, Mardy Pyromancer, Death's Shadow and Hollow One.
This matches became much easier because of this recursion.
Dusk//Dawn has its applications in matches where Wrath of God isn't good (UW Control, Jeskai Control).
I only miss Wrath of God against Affinity, Burn, Collected Company (bad matchup with or without Wrath), Dark Confidant and Tokens.
In comparison with Wrath, the upside of Dusk//Dawn against Humans, BGx, Mardu Pyromancer, Hollow One, Death's Shadow overcomes the downside
I'm with 60% win percentage, which I think is very good.
Hangarback in the sideboard was surprisingly good. Now it has a reserved slot such as Hex Parasite.
Now I feel that we are the old grind deck as in the times where Jund was the deck to beat.
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
Black also adds cranial effect cards that can be game breaking in some games, especially against combos. Prob black gives the most number of disrupt spells against opponents for Martyr deck.
I don't like Nahiri - she costs a lot so she can't improve our bad match ups. So I don't see red as a splash color for now, only prob in combination with black for Slaughter games, Crumble to dust and etc. strong hate cards.
About beeing 30+ life. I don't like Serra Scendant and think that he's too bad with Fatal push and Path to exile in meta also it's pretty hard to keep 30+ in 2+ color manabases. That's why I like Thraben inspector more, especially with Gavony township.
Yeah, you're writing right about Justice. It's also good removal against Shadow decks. The same reson I like Ajani too - he can hit planeswalkers and control board like small Gideon but have more relevant ult ability.
LD plan with Crucible is way too long. It's possible only if you play Ghostly prisons and can "lock" opponent by cutting his lands to number you need. But without that and with Ralliers it's just value card focusing on lands only. And for early stabalization you can use Ralliers. Yeah, love ralliers too but sometimes they're a bit nonuniversal.
I see idea of using big one to protect Nahiri but Small and only 1 copy? I don't think he will do much and other 3 drop will be better than 1 of Trial.
You can change wall of Omens for Thraben Inspector. They're good 1 drop to play on first turn and can be recycled with Proclamation.
Wins: Hollow One (3x), Humans (2x), Affinity, Titan Breach, Mardu Pyromancer, D&T, Burn, UW Control
Losses: Abzan (lose because of time, problems with Internet), UW Control, Collected Company Value (no combos), Ux Tron
About Hangarback Walker:
1) It's only one copy (1 slot)
2) It's good against Fatal Push
3) Can be tutored with Ranger of Eos
4) Grow itself with only one mana
5) Good against Liliana of the Veil
6) Is Colorless (All Is Dust)
The matches where I sided it in:
--> BG, Jund, Abzan, Death's Shadow, Mardu Pyromancer, Hollow One, Jeskai Control, Eldrazi Tron, Grixis Control and Delver decks.
In these matches, Serra Ascendant isn't good: they have too much discard, they have one mana removal (Fatal Push), they do too much damage in a fast way (Lightning Bolt, turn 1 or 2 big creatures) or they always plays Chalice for one.
When you side out Serra Ascendant, Ranger of Eos becomes worse: you need a target to keep him decent.
Walking Ballista is very slow, but Hangarback Walker does not need too much mana: with four manas you have a 2/2 that can chump block for three turns, or can grow to a 4/4 on two turns spending only one mana per turn.
But most of all, you can cast Hangarback for 2:
i) if you have it on your starting hand or
ii) if you fetch with Ranger of Eos, use the two remaining manas to cast Squadron Hawk to chump (or Wall of Omens in my case). Next turn you can cast another Squadron Hawk for 1W, have 1 to grow Hangarback and you will left with one mana (to cast Path, for example)
Against those decks, Hangarback Walker is a slow, but a steady source of advantage. Every turn it stays in the battlefield, it grows bigger and will create an additional token when dies.
Last league I was paired against a Hollow One deck (GR Hollow One with Vengevine).
I was at 11, he was at 20. The battlefield has a Vengevine, a Insolent Neonate and a Flameblade Adept.
He had two cards in hand, my hand was Serra Ascendant, Cast Out and land, we both have three lands. My draw was Ranger of Eos. I fetch for Hangarback and Martyr of Sands.
Ranger of Eos get bolted and he swings for 6 (I'm at 5). Next turn I cast Hangarback for two and Martyr, that blocks Vengevine and gains 9 life (I'm at 12). Next turn I'm obliged to cast Serra Ascendant, block Flameblade Adept with Hangarback and Serra (Life total 8). Next turn I land another creature, block Neonate (Life total 4), he casts Hollow One. I use Cast Out on Vengevine and has a 4/4 to block Hollow One, leaving me with 4 tokens.
This is a common case when you play against those grindy matchups.
Not to mention that on my list he can still come back with Dusk//Dawn
I think you have to try Hangarback Walker in sideboard if you are not playing Glittering Wish.
Modern: Soul Sisters
Commander: Isperia, Supreme Judge
I have a feeling that Martyr Proc has to go in juckyard for now until Jace got banned. :]
This is good for us. We can tune for jace and midrange now. Don't leave home without leyline and orings.
Martyr Proc Thread
Esper Relicblade Thread
Standard:
Mardu Superfriends
Turbofog
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Reading through some of the past posts, I notice that people have started to run Cast Out in place of O-ring. Since we're talking about answers for JtMS, I hope this question is appropriate.
Can someone in favor of O-ring list pro's and cons, and likewise for Cast out?
If I ran cast out, I don't see many match-ups where I would cycle it, since even storm has Baral/electromancer as targets. The flash I could see being helpful, but not against JtMS or other walkers. I'm not sure how often I would hold it up at instant speed, but not having played it I'm very curious about that aspect. I can see the extra (1) cost mattering, as getting Baral on turn 3 can make all the difference in the world.
Thanks in advance for any comments/analysis.
I've been off the deck for a long time, so I'm naturally less in tune with what the deck lacks, and Jace is probably not the answer. The first question I had to re-ask myself was, "why not just play straight U/W," and that just diverges off-topic >.<
As a slower midrange deck which is often forced to play the grind game, JtMS could be a serviceable tool in my eyes. Additionally, the blue splash allows us to upgrade some number of *** to Supreme Verdict and O-ring to Detention Sphere, among other things. Does this sound way too crazy, or just partly crazy to the rest of you all?
Only + O-ring has is it's 1 mana less cost but it's small + in term of Abrupt Decay.
Flsh is pretty usefull when you can crack clues, use mistveil, sit on PtE and etc.
All answers he have against JTMS are temporary or can be answered by opp with his mainboard cards. That's why I see Martyr Proc dead against Jace decks.
This is the list I was planing to take to fnm's (before Jace unban). Didn't put it to the test yet, have only played a bant version once some months ago and had problems closing games on time (lack of experience, most likely, but decided to wait for serra ascendant before trying again anyways):
4 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
2 Temple Garden
1 Scattered Grove
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Field of Ruin
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2 Misveil Plains
4 Plains
1 Forest
Creatures (19)
4 Martyr of Sands
2 Serra Ascendant
2 Thraben Inspector
4 Squadron Hawk
4 Renegade Rallier
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Path to Exile
2 Wrath of God
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Banishing Light
2 Proclamation of Rebirth
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Glittering Wish
1 Sundering Growth
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Teferi's Moat
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sky Hussar
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Runed Halo
I think Jace will warp Modern. If he starts showing up in my local meta I'm going probably going to find a way to add in the full 4 copies of Anguished Unmaking. Its a hard answer compared to the removable Banishing Light enchantments. What to take out I'm not sure.
I never played in the Jace standard but I do know that if they tap out turn 4 for Jace I might be happy. Then I can play Ranger of Eos or activate the Vizcopa Combo without worry about a counter/bounce spell. Cryptic Command is the stupidest card.
Lately I've been playing a lot against UW control, and I'm debating trying out Hour of revelation. Any thoughts on this in a *** slot or in place of Fracturing Gust for the Mono-W version? I'll have to try counting nl-permanents next time I play and see how often I can play it for WWW.