Gifts for any pile involving noxious revival is usually just being cute. If you play gifts, spend the two slots for the mainboard elesh norn KO, and play thirst for knowledge. The upaide of making gifts more reliable is worth a slight downgrade. If you need a value pile, snapcater/think twice/lingering souls/gifts usually does the job. If not, academy ruins/wurmcoil engine/crucible of worlds/noxious revival is the only noxious revival pile I endorse becausr it murders bgx hardcore, and buried ruin is a good alternative to revival.
I'm talking about a non-esper list. It may be a little cute, but Gifts'ing for Noxious/Snap/x/y turns Gifts into a 1-card double Vampiric Tutor at instant speed. We can handle the lifeloss, since we have a smooth just-UW manabase, so that effect is very good for us. Plus, the list is already squeezed for mb room, so I don't think the Elesh Norn/U Rites combo is necessary (it also dies to removal, which I very much dislike). A draw-go list doesn't want to run any artifacts except maybe Thopter-Sword, but that creates a bunch of dead draws in the deck; thus Thirst for Knowledge looks like a bad Anticipate here. What's left over is a traditional UW Draw-Go Shell, but with a card advantage engine that is comparable to ECharm (since the fact that it tutors makes up for the loss of ECharm's flexibility). In addition, the list escapes one of the main weaknesses of a Gifts deck -- it has practically 0 dead draws (Noxious is oftentimes very good as the 5/6th copies of any card in the list), and is ever-so-slightly less weak to grave-hate (since the main wincon no longer relies on flashing back a URites). I think that the theory behind my list is pretty solid.
So, been lurking for a while, and sleeved up wafo-tapas latest list for a local event here. Been a few years since Ive played constructed, and to top it off, quite new to modern. Got my ass handed to me by an experienced eldrazi aggro pilot, the rest went well enoug/felt winnable (1-2 vs faeries, 2-0 coco elves, 2-1 jund). How do we deal with eldrazi aggro? As in, what is the gameplan against them?
If you want more early interaction against faster aggro, you could do worse than porphyry nodes.
By eldrazi aggro, I'm assuming you mean bant eldrazi with displacer/thought-knot/reality smasher/etc.
Generally this is a "verdict or bust" type matchup.
I've thought about bringing in thoughtseizes here, because leaning on a verdict only to get it TKS'ed away sucks, and seize is fairly efficient at removing smashers.
Baneslayer is the obvious knock-out punch against them, but otherwise, as few spell snares/logic knots/negates/mana leaks as possible, and as many wraths, paths, condemns, blessed alliances, slaughter pacts, runed halos, and snapcaster mages as you can fit into your deck.
General thoughts and tips: they often play a world breaker or two postboard, make sure to save a path for them if possible. Save ghost quarter for cavern of souls if at all possible. Sometimes cutting them off a temple/painland to keep them off <> is worthwhile since they don't run any wastes, but especially game 1, turning a handful of counterspells on is potentially worth the drop in mana.
Cody_x: Yes, I meant bant eldrazi. Iplayed wafo-tapas latest decklist, and exept for my board wipes it didnt feel like I had what I needed. Had ***** luck with my draws though. Feels like we can't afford to be hit with thought-knot seer, so discard sounds plausible.
Regarding discard: would it be correct to bring in discard + surgicals to get rid of thought knot?
I think surgicals vs Bant eldrazi is not the best. Deck is so threat heavy we need about as much hard removal or draws to find removal that we can get. Surgical isnt doing much work for you when it's increasing their chances of drawing mutliples of Reality Smasher and Drowner of Hope. What are you even boarding out for surgical? 3 thoughtseize 3 condemn = 6 cards already + you could bring in lingering souls + walkers.
What is the general consense on the Esper Draw-Go build using 4 Serum Visions and 25 lands?
I like both versions TBH, the SV one and the one without and i quite cannot sattle whether run SVs or not :/
I am still firmly in the opinion that if you are running Logic Knots you really want the option to use them early wheen needed (turn 2 as a force spike), and there aren't more useful delve enablers than Serum Visions (any extra help is welcomed too, such as more fetchlands or inquisition of kozilek). If you cut Logic Knots, Serum Visions can go.
How about a single gitaxian probe as a fifth serum vision? Goes well with t1 tapland and esper charm.
What is the general consense on the Esper Draw-Go build using 4 Serum Visions and 25 lands?
I like both versions TBH, the SV one and the one without and i quite cannot sattle whether run SVs or not :/
I am still firmly in the opinion that if you are running Logic Knots you really want the option to use them early wheen needed (turn 2 as a force spike), and there aren't more useful delve enablers than Serum Visions (any extra help is welcomed too, such as more fetchlands or inquisition of kozilek). If you cut Logic Knots, Serum Visions can go.
How about a single gitaxian probe as a fifth serum vision? Goes well with t1 tapland and esper charm.
I think it depends on whether you are running Blessed Alliance. There are a lot of games we finally stabilize at only a few life points and that Probe could be the difference.
I'm talking about a non-esper list. It may be a little cute, but Gifts'ing for Noxious/Snap/x/y turns Gifts into a 1-card double Vampiric Tutor at instant speed.
I'm talking about a non-esper list. It may be a little cute, but Gifts'ing for Noxious/Snap/x/y turns Gifts into a 1-card double Vampiric Tutor at instant speed.
Vampiric Tutor costs 1 mana
I was talking more about the instant-speed tutor effect and life loss (to cast and flashback Noxious) than the mana cost.
you have path and condemn for smasher, wipes for the rest, and surgicals to get rid of thought-knot? Side out counters.
Yes but there is only like 5 counters in the deck to cut unless you are also cutting Cryptic, but I think Tap-Draw and Tap-Bounce with Snapcaster are important in the Bant matchup for finding your sweepers. Reality smasher is also going to 2-1 you if you're just trying to kill it with spot removal, so I'm worried you are going to give up too much deck velocity/card advantage. I just really want to find my verdict ASAP vs them.
I've found that bant eldrazi really isn't that hard to deal with--I found that saving paths for displacer meant that generally they were just a bad jund deck without reach. You just want to eke out every smidgeon of value against them and avoid getting TKS/Displacer locked. Cryptic command in time walk mode is almost better than wraths IMO because of the tempo/land drops they grant.
3 mana memoricide that draws our opponent four cards is bad--Against most decks where we would want an extraction effect like that, waiting on memoricide is perfectly fine OR 3 mana is too slow and we need discard + 1 mana extraction effects. Against the few decks where we might prefer a 3 mana extraction effect, I'm firmly of the opinion that sadistic sacrament is the place where you actually want to be--doesn't hit a whole playset, but you can choose to fight over many more different axes of interaction against a particular deck--maybe take their pacts so they can't protect combo, take their caverns so their combo creatures are counterable, or take the actual win cons away from ad nauseum for example.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
The 3 mana memoricide effect is most likely not what we want right now. I feel like its only good vs ad nauseam and scapeshift. Maybe some other rogue combos but most likely not worth a SD slot.
What we need is counterspell. But wotc think its too strong. This is infuriating! In world of 2cmc bombs like goyfs, dark confident, cranial plating etc. Not even considering 3cmc mana cost bombs like lily! Actually, many deck can kill you in 3 turns. That's what modern is. But counterspell would be broken... My ass!
Tks for the update. The matchup/sideboarding section still mentions Twin, and doesn't cover the "newer" decks (eldrazi, dredge, RG breach, DSZ etc). Need help with that?
bet you guys are salivating over torrential gearhulk, used to play esper teachings back in the day until i learned what true control is with lantern of insight, but regardless sleeved up and esper control list and threw in 2 these bad boys. 5/6 flasher with built in cryptic command seems good.
Oh crap, I just realized that Gearhulk fits perfectly into those Grixis Midrange lists that play Goblin Dark-Dwellers -- it's great value with AV and at instant speed.
Edit: Oh, and instant speed wraths are cool I hear.
Oh crap, I just realized that Gearhulk fits perfectly into those Grixis Midrange lists that play Goblin Dark-Dwellers -- it's great value with AV and at instant speed.
Edit: Oh, and instant speed wraths are cool I hear.
It casts instants only, not sorceries. The card kind of interests me.
Ceremonious rejection is the bomb vs Tron! That's it boys! And its great vs affinity, eldrazi (when they have no cavern in play), lantern and maybe others I don't think of right now!
U: counter colorless spell.
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I'm talking about a non-esper list. It may be a little cute, but Gifts'ing for Noxious/Snap/x/y turns Gifts into a 1-card double Vampiric Tutor at instant speed. We can handle the lifeloss, since we have a smooth just-UW manabase, so that effect is very good for us. Plus, the list is already squeezed for mb room, so I don't think the Elesh Norn/U Rites combo is necessary (it also dies to removal, which I very much dislike). A draw-go list doesn't want to run any artifacts except maybe Thopter-Sword, but that creates a bunch of dead draws in the deck; thus Thirst for Knowledge looks like a bad Anticipate here. What's left over is a traditional UW Draw-Go Shell, but with a card advantage engine that is comparable to ECharm (since the fact that it tutors makes up for the loss of ECharm's flexibility). In addition, the list escapes one of the main weaknesses of a Gifts deck -- it has practically 0 dead draws (Noxious is oftentimes very good as the 5/6th copies of any card in the list), and is ever-so-slightly less weak to grave-hate (since the main wincon no longer relies on flashing back a URites). I think that the theory behind my list is pretty solid.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
By eldrazi aggro, I'm assuming you mean bant eldrazi with displacer/thought-knot/reality smasher/etc.
Generally this is a "verdict or bust" type matchup.
I've thought about bringing in thoughtseizes here, because leaning on a verdict only to get it TKS'ed away sucks, and seize is fairly efficient at removing smashers.
Baneslayer is the obvious knock-out punch against them, but otherwise, as few spell snares/logic knots/negates/mana leaks as possible, and as many wraths, paths, condemns, blessed alliances, slaughter pacts, runed halos, and snapcaster mages as you can fit into your deck.
General thoughts and tips: they often play a world breaker or two postboard, make sure to save a path for them if possible. Save ghost quarter for cavern of souls if at all possible. Sometimes cutting them off a temple/painland to keep them off <> is worthwhile since they don't run any wastes, but especially game 1, turning a handful of counterspells on is potentially worth the drop in mana.
Regarding discard: would it be correct to bring in discard + surgicals to get rid of thought knot?
How about a single gitaxian probe as a fifth serum vision? Goes well with t1 tapland and esper charm.
I think it depends on whether you are running Blessed Alliance. There are a lot of games we finally stabilize at only a few life points and that Probe could be the difference.
Vampiric Tutor costs 1 mana
I was talking more about the instant-speed tutor effect and life loss (to cast and flashback Noxious) than the mana cost.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Yes but there is only like 5 counters in the deck to cut unless you are also cutting Cryptic, but I think Tap-Draw and Tap-Bounce with Snapcaster are important in the Bant matchup for finding your sweepers. Reality smasher is also going to 2-1 you if you're just trying to kill it with spot removal, so I'm worried you are going to give up too much deck velocity/card advantage. I just really want to find my verdict ASAP vs them.
I've found that bant eldrazi really isn't that hard to deal with--I found that saving paths for displacer meant that generally they were just a bad jund deck without reach. You just want to eke out every smidgeon of value against them and avoid getting TKS/Displacer locked. Cryptic command in time walk mode is almost better than wraths IMO because of the tempo/land drops they grant.
3 mana memoricide that draws our opponent four cards is bad--Against most decks where we would want an extraction effect like that, waiting on memoricide is perfectly fine OR 3 mana is too slow and we need discard + 1 mana extraction effects. Against the few decks where we might prefer a 3 mana extraction effect, I'm firmly of the opinion that sadistic sacrament is the place where you actually want to be--doesn't hit a whole playset, but you can choose to fight over many more different axes of interaction against a particular deck--maybe take their pacts so they can't protect combo, take their caverns so their combo creatures are counterable, or take the actual win cons away from ad nauseum for example.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Not that I think it's great just clarifying.
"What does MtheW stand for? The world may never know."
What we need is counterspell. But wotc think its too strong. This is infuriating! In world of 2cmc bombs like goyfs, dark confident, cranial plating etc. Not even considering 3cmc mana cost bombs like lily! Actually, many deck can kill you in 3 turns. That's what modern is. But counterspell would be broken... My ass!
Tks for the update. The matchup/sideboarding section still mentions Twin, and doesn't cover the "newer" decks (eldrazi, dredge, RG breach, DSZ etc). Need help with that?
Edit: Oh, and instant speed wraths are cool I hear.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
It casts instants only, not sorceries. The card kind of interests me.
Modern - Esper Draw-Go (Best finish - 12-3, 45th at GP Charlotte 2015), Jeskai Control, UR Breach Moon
U: counter colorless spell.
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