Yes, I mostly use the discard mode against uwr. They have very little card draw, so o use think twice and rev to draw and esper charm for discard. Once their hand is empty, we can rev for a ton and win with WSZ.
After not being able to do anything in a long game with Tron despite letting him resolve Emrakul several times and still being OK, I decided to test Bribery. It also came in vs pod usually taking eternal witness or shriekmaw, and against amulet combo taking primeval Titan. This actually lost me one game because he had zero cards in hand and I Bribed his Titan #3 and he rips his fourth copy of Summoner's Pact and one shots me. Game 3 it was insane though.
Also, I've liked the one main deck copy of Leyline of Sanctity. Even if it isn't in your opener, casting it against anyone on the burn plan or Storm or Gifts will ruin their day. We go through enough cards that the one of comes up pretty frequently before you die, and it is a beautiful feeling. That being said, it's only good against decks with red or Gifts or Mindslaver or black discard spells or Liliana of the Veil...and I've lost to Liliana even when she couldn't ultimate, but I was also on one land on the fourteenth turn having lost one to Fulminator Mage and one to Sowing Salt.
Yea I think the meta has gotten to a point where I even started looking at Leyline of Sanctity. I hate the cards narrowness and price without getting it in the opener but with burn being one of the top 3 most played decks I think the card needs some attention.
As for bribery it is a good route to take vs tron due to emrakul being the only unbeatable card in that deck. Everything else you can counter or discard. Bribery is the best plan in my opinion if you do not go to a tempo plan in post board games.
I think if we are going to try to attempt a more proactive version with discard and walkers we would want to lower our curve and make it sort of like a midrange deck with a lot of control elements. Sort of like how Stoneblade or Shardless BUG operates in Legacy. I am currently working on a list like that since I think going "pure" control auto-loses to deck like tron. Esper is my favorite color combination and control is my favorite archetype and I am usually a huge fan of pure draw-go control. But after playing the deck, I just don't think it is the most competitive list Esper can put together in Modern atm.
If you guys don't want to discuss a version like this just let me know and I will gtfo since I know it is quite different from Wafo-Tapo's list and a stone's throw from the Sun Titan lists.
Not only is his minus two much better his plus two can easily buy you a turn or two against an aggro deck.
Also I feel like this deck needs one stick it to win it card in the maindeck, there are a lot of good options but due to school I have not had enough time to test as I would like. The two I have been liking the most is Gideon and Batterskull and sorta Elspeth Suns Champion
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Storm and Burn all formats
NAYA BURN STANDARD
RABBLE RED E D H
OCEAN MASTER LORTHOS
Daretti's House of Artifacts AND LAND DESTRUCTION
I started tinkering with a proactive version of the deck so that I can add it to the primer. Based on what people have been talking about here's what I've got so far. More beaters, some walkers, less card draw, counters, removal, and wraths. Thoughts?
I'm planning on a more proactive version, but I will probably be testing Blade Splicer with some Restos. I have run Blade Splicer in UWR before and she was great. I think she would do well in this shell. If I go that route, I will probably mainboard some IoK.
I've listed the best finishers for this deck to give players options. I think the OP should include them in the primer. When I have a chance, I'll repost them. You're right. I had a game where my WSZ was Seized. Well, I'm glad I had Gideon, Elspeth, and Batterskull or I would have just scooped. I have never been fond of relying on 1 win-con in a control deck, especially with so many decks packing answers.
Getting WSZ discarded is indeed a problem, though it's never happened to me.
I played a list very similar to what Chaam posted, and it was only okay. I feel like the pure draw-go version will perform better, and I've had better results with it.
Even after losing the WSZ, you should still win against the decks that play Thoughtseize, but it is your best card against them. You might have to get creative (i.e. using Cryptic Command to protect Celestial Colonnade from Tectonic Edge, or just attacking with Snapcaster and protecting it with Cryptic Command)
After testing wafo-tapa's list with adjusted mana for our future fetches, adding in a second tec edge, adding a singleton Utter End I agree that our matchup against decks like Tron are very difficult.
Looking at the proactive lists though, at one point does the deck just turn into a midrange strategy, and as it gets closer to the edge of control to midrange/control, what does the proactive versions have that strategies like Rock don't already offer and possibly do better?
not to discredit any ideas but I just want to know how you guys are thinking now, i'm new to deckbuilding and i'm looking to invest in this new frontier of Esper Control. I truly think with our better mana bases we are now contenders.
I realize this is a midrange approach but there are integrated control elements. If you do not prefer this style (less draw/counters but more creatures/disruption), then you simply don't play it. This type of deck generates card advantage differently through creatures with value and hand disruption.
Dark Confidant and Phyrexian Arena are midrange cards. The goal with Esper control is to the sit there, accruing card advantage at as little loss of life as possible and stretching the game out to turn 20 or so and then using a big White Sun's Zenith to beat them to death with kitties; none of our finishers are good if we cast them early, unlike with Jund or Deadguy Ale.
I've killed Jund decks as control before by limitting what they can do wiht their beaters and countering whatever they try to use to get rid of their Bobs and letting them draw themselves to death. It's not something we want happening to us.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
Is anyone else digging Murderous Cut as a 1-2 of? Obviously you couldn't play Logic Knot in the same main deck as it, but just with fetching twice, it's a Murder. If you have already cast something, or been Thoughseized (Or after doing some thoughtseizing), it can easily be better than Smother, Doom Blade, or Go for the Throat. The possibility of it being a 1 drop makes it even better for me.