Call me a blasphemer but I'm testing a new build because I've felt our grind game just really doesn't play well with the current meta. That statement has been corroborated a few times in the past few pages. This is my attempt to still play essentially a draw go deck with some more action versus the current meta.
2 Secure is left over from when I was running 3 leak before swapping to spell quellers. Probably could drop it by one. I don't have colonnades right now so I need a higher threat density, but even with the colonnades I don't think I'd cut much.
The deck needs to be more interactive/disruptive in the early turns.
Let me start by saying that the cards I like the most (and the reason I like esper) are 4 Esper Charm, 4 Path to Exile and 4 Supreme Verdict. They are insanely well-positioned I want to build the deck around them. After those cads, I am not set in stone about anything else. I don't particularly care about being a pure control deck or some of the conclusions that are in the primer; I just care about winning. Right now the metagame dictates that it means you need to expend your mana more in the early turns and be more disruptive, or risk dying before flashbacking those Think Twices.
So here is the list I am running on magic online right now:
The sideboard should include planeswalkers, Lingering Souls, Condemn, Enginneered Explosives, Dispel, Negate, a single Stony Silence and your choice of hate against either burn or dredge. Sideboarding is hard and I don't have the numbers yet. The next step to deck optimization involves fitting out the necessary hate there, but it's difficult.
Let me explain my reasoning before you say: "but discard is a bad topdeck late game, and you cut a lot of card drawing and that's not what control is supposed to do". There has been a metagame shift with more and faster linear decks around, so the other control and midrange decks have adapted and are also focused on being low to ground to survive. The more popular lists of grixis and jeskai don't run a full set of Cryptic Commands. BGx is just full of creature removal game 1, with abzan running Grim Flayer over Dark Confidant. So you can afford to cut some of your card-advantage too and still beat them, just don't over-do-it. Instead of out-drawing then by a lot, you're out-drawing then by a little, but that's enough to win. You're still a favorite there.
The game plans with this deck are straight forward, and it's either a) set up a turn 4 supreme verdict against creature decks; b) set up two discard spells against combo/control/midrange, followed by running away with the deck with an X spell or cryptic commands. The difference is that now there is a tad more support to just staying alive in the between, and less drawing cards and sitting behind counterspells. The extra support is actually just Inquisition of Kozilek and more effective Logic Knots on turn 2. Not huge changes, after all.
I feel like the biggest innovation out of Olivier's Ruel GP Lille top64 deck is Inquisition of Kozilek with the mana to afford it, not the fourth color (or 61 cards). I've been happy incorporating it. I have also tried Spell Snare/Condenm in the slot, but Inquisition solves a larger range of problems and don't suck as much against spell-based combo. Running more counterspells would mean that sometimes you die without them doing anything relevant against their multiple 1-drops (or 2-drops on the play). Inquisition does help you live past turn 3 by taking a critical piece out of their hand, which is exactly what you neeed. Think how a lot of the linear decks just fold without one of their key components - the optimal way to pilot Death's Shadow Zoo, Affinity and Infect relies on agressive mulliganing unless there is one the 12-15 haymakers. That can be exploited.
You have 11 cards to interact early (path, inquisition, logic knot), plus Serum Visions to help find them, plus Snapcaster to seal the deal. That's about just enough to steal a realistic percentage of game 1's against their best hands (you can still beat their slower hands with wrath). Post-board you get to be as favorable as you want, because no one is really gunning to beat control.
I hope you guys give it a shot and share the results. I will be happy to answer specific questions.
I understand that I am new to this thread and that most of you guys here already have a set-in-stone mentality on what the deck should look like, so it's fine to do your thing and ignoring what I am saying. I have never been a pro, but I do have a ton of experience playing competitive at a very high level (more than a handful of PT appearences as part of a team, a GP top 8, a brazilian national title, and have been multiple times on the national team). I don't mean this to #humblebrag nor am I saying that I am more right because of this, but it felt pertinent to disclaim this so maybe you guys could have more of an open mind to those ideas, instead of rejecting them right away because they don't fit what the deck used to be. I learned a lot on this thread and wanted to contribute back, it's all.
The deck needs to be more interactive/disruptive in the early turns.
Let me start by saying that the cards I like the most (and the reason I like esper) are 4 Esper Charm, 4 Path to Exile and 4 Supreme Verdict. They are insanely well-positioned I want to build the deck around them. After those cads, I am not set in stone about anything else. I don't particularly care about being a pure control deck or some of the conclusions that are in the primer; I just care about winning. Right now the metagame dictates that it means you need to expend your mana more in the early turns and be more disruptive, or risk dying before flashbacking those Think Twices.
So here is the list I am running on magic online right now:
The sideboard should include planeswalkers, Lingering Souls, Condemn, Enginneered Explosives, Dispel, Negate, a single Stony Silence and your choice of hate against either burn or dredge. Sideboarding is hard and I don't have the numbers yet. The next step to deck optimization involves fitting out the necessary hate there, but it's difficult.
Let me explain my reasoning before you say: "but discard is a bad topdeck late game, and you cut a lot of card drawing and that's not what control is supposed to do". There has been a metagame shift with more and faster linear decks around, so the other control and midrange decks have adapted and are also focused on being low to ground to survive. The more popular lists of grixis and jeskai don't run a full set of Cryptic Commands. BGx is just full of creature removal game 1, with abzan running Grim Flayer over Dark Confidant. So you can afford to cut some of your card-advantage too and still beat them, just don't over-do-it. Instead of out-drawing then by a lot, you're out-drawing then by a little, but that's enough to win. You're still a favorite there.
The game plans with this deck are straight forward, and it's either a) set up a turn 4 supreme verdict against creature decks; b) set up two discard spells against combo/control/midrange, followed by running away with the deck with an X spell or cryptic commands. The difference is that now there is a tad more support to just staying alive in the between, and less drawing cards and sitting behind counterspells. The extra support is actually just Inquisition of Kozilek and more effective Logic Knots on turn 2. Not huge changes, after all.
I feel like the biggest innovation out of Olivier's Ruel GP Lille top64 deck is Inquisition of Kozilek with the mana to afford it, not the fourth color (or 61 cards). I've been happy incorporating it. I have also tried Spell Snare/Condenm in the slot, but Inquisition solves a larger range of problems and don't suck as much against spell-based combo. Running more counterspells would mean that sometimes you die without them doing anything relevant against their multiple 1-drops (or 2-drops on the play). Inquisition does help you live past turn 3 by taking a critical piece out of their hand, which is exactly what you neeed. Think how a lot of the linear decks just fold without one of their key components - the optimal way to pilot Death's Shadow Zoo, Affinity and Infect relies on agressive mulliganing unless there is one the 12-15 haymakers. That can be exploited.
You have 11 cards to interact early (path, inquisition, logic knot), plus Serum Visions to help find them, plus Snapcaster to seal the deal. That's about just enough to steal a realistic percentage of game 1's against their best hands (you can still beat their slower hands with wrath). Post-board you get to be as favorable as you want, because no one is really gunning to beat control.
I hope you guys give it a shot and share the results. I will be happy to answer specific questions.
I understand that I am new to this thread and that most of you guys here already have a set-in-stone mentality on what the deck should look like, so it's fine to do your thing and ignoring what I am saying. I have never been a pro, but I do have a ton of experience playing competitive at a very high level (more than a handful of PT appearences as part of a team, a GP top 8, a brazilian national title, and have been multiple times on the national team). I don't mean this to #humblebrag nor am I saying that I am more right because of this, but it felt pertinent to disclaim this so maybe you guys could have more of an open mind to those ideas, instead of rejecting them right away because they don't fit what the deck used to be. I learned a lot on this thread and wanted to contribute back, it's all.
Similar path to my thought process, my list on the previous page attempts to be more interactive with current meta. I have always liked playing iok and even thoughtseize at times when the meta demanded it.
@oPs I definitely see where you're coming from with the IoK's main. I cringe to see it, because it's very eww in many ways; but I certainly see the logic behind it. I'll have to test it. Also, I really feel that 1 AV could be a 2nd Think Twice.
I'm honestly kind of surprised to see so many singleton ancestral visions, it just seems quite questionable.
My major issue with discard is that right now its so incredibly swingy. Sometimes you're gonna be on the play vs infect/deaths shadow, but the other time you're gonna be on the draw vs bant eldrazi or abzan.
This is the major point between sideboard and mainboard discard.
On the other hand, I'm thinking its maybe time to take a look at thopter foundry again, as its a much more powerful wincon in ideal circumstances right now.
Unfortunately, as with when it was first unbanned, I haven't yet settled on a list I'm impressed with.
Really though, I do wish there was a better counterspell to play with in modern. We've got the best sweepers, we've got path to exile, but we still have to make do with logic knot or mana leak.
I've moved to UW control the past few weeks and that resto package has felt very good against several decks I had been struggling with when I was on esper. Burn in particular went from brutal to easy 2-0 though that was probably also thanks to less pain in the mana base. It also provides a quicker clock for matches where we just don't have time to durdle until turn 8-9 before getting around to winning.
Hello to all the new comers, y'all welcomed to join the party!
I have multiple points I would like to adress.
First, on the logic knot/fetches/serum topic, I would like to remind you that remand is still a good card and that it will solve the problem. Turn 2 remand into turn 3 logic K is pretty awsome. You win tempo, get some velocity by drawing an extra card etc. People have ruled out remand but I honnestly cant go below 2 in the MD. Remand is also pretty strong vs Tron, turn 3 karn, remanded opens the door for cryptic the next turn.
Second, I would like to share my thoughts on Wafo GP list. I like it, but not more than the good old one. I see what he tried there and he has HIS reasons to do so. I won't judge that because all in all, it's not always about the deck, it's about how confortable with the deck you are. We have been arguing alot on what the best cards are etc. But the answer is always based on our personnal standards and what fits us the most. I personnaly play my runed halos MD because the prison approach is something I am very confortable with. Some of us like it more agressive and its totaly correct. There are many ways to play draw go and I wont judge, but please, don't come here with a decl jaming 15 creatures, 10 sorceries and 4 AV and call it draw go I might judge!!! Some of you know that actually, I will!
Third topic, just wanted to thank you all again for sharing your opinions and idea, not forgetting your valuable play testing results. And to all the new comer, even tho some here are not agreeing on this, I really think it would be profitable to you if you'd read the 300 pages of this thread. It is full of treasures, and will be less time consuming than reading a small book.
Call me a blasphemer but I'm testing a new build because I've felt our grind game just really doesn't play well with the current meta. That statement has been corroborated a few times in the past few pages. This is my attempt to still play essentially a draw go deck with some more action versus the current meta.
2 Secure is left over from when I was running 3 leak before swapping to spell quellers. Probably could drop it by one. I don't have colonnades right now so I need a higher threat density, but even with the colonnades I don't think I'd cut much.
More testing has shown that I really don't want 3 verdict or the 2 secures. I think more discard and spot removal may be in the cards for me so I have more early interaction. Opinions, also do you feel this still belongs here as I'm trying for a more draw go strategy, I guess you could call it esper Flash.
Aren't you scared of just building a weaker mentor's deck?
I'd argue the playstyle of this build is much different from a mentors list, this still holds the reactive elements of draw go but is also able to apply pressure early. Which is something the meta really needs. If I wanted to play a mentor deck I could but I don't feel that's well positioned right now. I think this deck has a good playstyle and a mentor list doesn't come close to replicating that. I'm interested in why you think this is just a weaker mentor list though.
Torrential Gearhulk seems like a great/value finisher, and works well with Mystical Teachings. It flashes back a cryptic at the same mana ratio as snapcaster but leaves you with a 5/6 body. Works well with Consume the Meek and Esper Charm. Maybe have a 1-of academy ruins to recur it as well, but that's probably a bit much.
What is the general consense on the Esper Draw-Go build using 4 Serum Visions and 25 lands?
I like both versions TBH, the SV one and the one without and i quite cannot sattle whether run SVs or not :/
I am still firmly in the opinion that if you are running Logic Knots you really want the option to use them early wheen needed (turn 2 as a force spike), and there aren't more useful delve enablers than Serum Visions (any extra help is welcomed too, such as more fetchlands or inquisition of kozilek). If you cut Logic Knots, Serum Visions can go.
So, back in with a tiny bit more news about UW Gifts-Go (been doing a teeny bit of testing -- not a lot). Deck's very very good. Gifts'ing eot of a Naya Zoo player's turn for Wrath/Verdict/BAlliance/Noxious is just so gross -- I won that game literally because of Gifts, no other card could have stabilized me like that at 5 life. Also, having clean mana+Clique+Leyline+Halos against Grishoalbrand seems preeety good haha. I haven't changed a thing of the list, it's been perfect. I might get some Gifts and 2x Noxious so I can play it IRL (maybe I can get the Tallahassee store owner to host unsanctioned tourneys and allow proxies -- he did it once before), but I definitely don't feel the loss of ECharm yet. The 3x Gifts plan works very well, and you'd be surpised how often Noxious Revival is good on its own -- putting back Snaps/Paths/Wraths/Revs eot to untap and draw them. You can also force your opponent to redraw a fetch to get that 1 turn you needed to stabilize. List is just solid.
I will add that Celestial Purge is one of the best sideboard cards in the list, despite that I don't really like Purge in Esper. Not sure why, but Purge has been great against everything. It hits all of the old stuff, but now also hits Bedlam Reveler, Swiftspear/Death's Shadow, Grim Flayer, Nahiri (not really new, but it doesn't get mentioned enough). I guess Esper needs the sb space -- UW plays Halo and Condemn main, doesn't need 5-6 slots for TS and Surg, etc. I play 2x Stony Silence because, "Why not?" -- and I still have plenty room to mess around.
It's like a laundry list of good / powerful cards in modern. And they're all cheap in mana cost, not clunky, and the mana is great.
My finisher (in leiu of easily disruptive stuff like angler or tasigur) , has been cavern of souls into Keranos or aetherling. Plus 4 tar pit / snap bolt
It's like a laundry list of good / powerful cards in modern. And they're all cheap in mana cost, not clunky, and the mana is great.
My finisher (in leiu of easily disruptive stuff like angler or tasigur) , has been cavern of souls into Keranos or aetherling. Plus 4 tar pit / snap bolt
I'm about a dozen cards away from owning it. Can you message me your list?
It's like a laundry list of good / powerful cards in modern. And they're all cheap in mana cost, not clunky, and the mana is great.
My finisher (in leiu of easily disruptive stuff like angler or tasigur) , has been cavern of souls into Keranos or aetherling. Plus 4 tar pit / snap bolt
Can you message me list as well, I own grixis midrange anyway so it shouldn't be hard to make a full control list.
I'm curious as well, so it would be great if you'd just post it.
I've dabbled in cruel control a bit, and if I owned damnations, I'd probably be playing that right now.
Someone also mentioned bant draw-go a page or two back, if they'd post their most recent list, that would also be appreciated.
I've got conceptual lists of my own for both decks, but I'd love to compare.
Sorry about the delay; got roped into teaching a couple extra classes for a few weeks. Primer update should go up tonight when I get home; been frantically churning out lesson plans.
Re: my mana base. 5 shocks seems like a lot, but there are also 6 basics. I fetch a lot of tapped shock lands; if I had serum visions, I would cut down the 3rd fountain. the second watery grave is really important post board against any deck trying to disrupt your mana: its a third fetchable black source, and it means all your fetches are live draws for black mana if you have the first one hit by molten rain or something.
Speaking of serum visions: you pretty much want it in esper only if you are generally playing verdict or bust games. Personally, I would run a 5th wrath effect before serum visions.
Let's see... uh, collective brutality: better in a tap out shell with walkers. Metagame call card. Same with lingering souls and mainboard discard. In this meta, tap out is probably just better.
Early interaction options: wretched banquet, vendetta, deathmark, oust, condemn, sunlance. The only reason to mainboard the discard over removal is for relevance against combo; I prefer to primarily handle combo via the sideboard, and I prefer permanent answers like lock pieces and extraction effects to repeated quantities of discard.
Gifts for any pile involving noxious revival is usually just being cute. If you play gifts, spend the two slots for the mainboard elesh norn KO, and play thirst for knowledge. The upaide of making gifts more reliable is worth a slight downgrade. If you need a value pile, snapcater/think twice/lingering souls/gifts usually does the job. If not, academy ruins/wurmcoil engine/crucible of worlds/noxious revival is the only noxious revival pile I endorse becausr it murders bgx hardcore, and buried ruin is a good alternative to revival.
Kids showing up for office hours, more later.
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Speaking of serum visions: you pretty much want it in esper only if you are generally playing verdict or bust games. Personally, I would run a 5th wrath effect before serum visions.
I think that's a fair enough statement. I wouldn't say that simply adding another wrath solves the problem, though; you'll draw that wrath against the other half of Modern decks and Serum Visions also helps you hit your land drops.
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2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wall of Omens
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Spell Queller
3 Restoration angel
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Serum Visions
4 Path to Exile
2 Logic Knot
3 Esper Charm
1 Mystical Teachings
3 Cryptic Command
3 supreme verdict
2 Secure the Wastes
1 sphinx's revelation
2 Secure is left over from when I was running 3 leak before swapping to spell quellers. Probably could drop it by one. I don't have colonnades right now so I need a higher threat density, but even with the colonnades I don't think I'd cut much.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Let me start by saying that the cards I like the most (and the reason I like esper) are 4 Esper Charm, 4 Path to Exile and 4 Supreme Verdict. They are insanely well-positioned I want to build the deck around them. After those cads, I am not set in stone about anything else. I don't particularly care about being a pure control deck or some of the conclusions that are in the primer; I just care about winning. Right now the metagame dictates that it means you need to expend your mana more in the early turns and be more disruptive, or risk dying before flashbacking those Think Twices.
So here is the list I am running on magic online right now:
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Serum Visions
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
1 Ancestral Visions
1 Think Twice
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Logic Knot
4 Esper Charm
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Cryptic Command
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Secure the Wastes
The sideboard should include planeswalkers, Lingering Souls, Condemn, Enginneered Explosives, Dispel, Negate, a single Stony Silence and your choice of hate against either burn or dredge. Sideboarding is hard and I don't have the numbers yet. The next step to deck optimization involves fitting out the necessary hate there, but it's difficult.
Let me explain my reasoning before you say: "but discard is a bad topdeck late game, and you cut a lot of card drawing and that's not what control is supposed to do". There has been a metagame shift with more and faster linear decks around, so the other control and midrange decks have adapted and are also focused on being low to ground to survive. The more popular lists of grixis and jeskai don't run a full set of Cryptic Commands. BGx is just full of creature removal game 1, with abzan running Grim Flayer over Dark Confidant. So you can afford to cut some of your card-advantage too and still beat them, just don't over-do-it. Instead of out-drawing then by a lot, you're out-drawing then by a little, but that's enough to win. You're still a favorite there.
The game plans with this deck are straight forward, and it's either a) set up a turn 4 supreme verdict against creature decks; b) set up two discard spells against combo/control/midrange, followed by running away with the deck with an X spell or cryptic commands. The difference is that now there is a tad more support to just staying alive in the between, and less drawing cards and sitting behind counterspells. The extra support is actually just Inquisition of Kozilek and more effective Logic Knots on turn 2. Not huge changes, after all.
I feel like the biggest innovation out of Olivier's Ruel GP Lille top64 deck is Inquisition of Kozilek with the mana to afford it, not the fourth color (or 61 cards). I've been happy incorporating it. I have also tried Spell Snare/Condenm in the slot, but Inquisition solves a larger range of problems and don't suck as much against spell-based combo. Running more counterspells would mean that sometimes you die without them doing anything relevant against their multiple 1-drops (or 2-drops on the play). Inquisition does help you live past turn 3 by taking a critical piece out of their hand, which is exactly what you neeed. Think how a lot of the linear decks just fold without one of their key components - the optimal way to pilot Death's Shadow Zoo, Affinity and Infect relies on agressive mulliganing unless there is one the 12-15 haymakers. That can be exploited.
You have 11 cards to interact early (path, inquisition, logic knot), plus Serum Visions to help find them, plus Snapcaster to seal the deal. That's about just enough to steal a realistic percentage of game 1's against their best hands (you can still beat their slower hands with wrath). Post-board you get to be as favorable as you want, because no one is really gunning to beat control.
I hope you guys give it a shot and share the results. I will be happy to answer specific questions.
I understand that I am new to this thread and that most of you guys here already have a set-in-stone mentality on what the deck should look like, so it's fine to do your thing and ignoring what I am saying. I have never been a pro, but I do have a ton of experience playing competitive at a very high level (more than a handful of PT appearences as part of a team, a GP top 8, a brazilian national title, and have been multiple times on the national team). I don't mean this to #humblebrag nor am I saying that I am more right because of this, but it felt pertinent to disclaim this so maybe you guys could have more of an open mind to those ideas, instead of rejecting them right away because they don't fit what the deck used to be. I learned a lot on this thread and wanted to contribute back, it's all.
Similar path to my thought process, my list on the previous page attempts to be more interactive with current meta. I have always liked playing iok and even thoughtseize at times when the meta demanded it.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
My major issue with discard is that right now its so incredibly swingy. Sometimes you're gonna be on the play vs infect/deaths shadow, but the other time you're gonna be on the draw vs bant eldrazi or abzan.
This is the major point between sideboard and mainboard discard.
On the other hand, I'm thinking its maybe time to take a look at thopter foundry again, as its a much more powerful wincon in ideal circumstances right now.
Unfortunately, as with when it was first unbanned, I haven't yet settled on a list I'm impressed with.
Really though, I do wish there was a better counterspell to play with in modern. We've got the best sweepers, we've got path to exile, but we still have to make do with logic knot or mana leak.
edit, nvm just read it again its instant or sorcery... still good but not more then 1 of in the md I think maybe 1 sb
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
I've moved to UW control the past few weeks and that resto package has felt very good against several decks I had been struggling with when I was on esper. Burn in particular went from brutal to easy 2-0 though that was probably also thanks to less pain in the mana base. It also provides a quicker clock for matches where we just don't have time to durdle until turn 8-9 before getting around to winning.
Is there any reason not to try it with esper?
I have multiple points I would like to adress.
First, on the logic knot/fetches/serum topic, I would like to remind you that remand is still a good card and that it will solve the problem. Turn 2 remand into turn 3 logic K is pretty awsome. You win tempo, get some velocity by drawing an extra card etc. People have ruled out remand but I honnestly cant go below 2 in the MD. Remand is also pretty strong vs Tron, turn 3 karn, remanded opens the door for cryptic the next turn.
Second, I would like to share my thoughts on Wafo GP list. I like it, but not more than the good old one. I see what he tried there and he has HIS reasons to do so. I won't judge that because all in all, it's not always about the deck, it's about how confortable with the deck you are. We have been arguing alot on what the best cards are etc. But the answer is always based on our personnal standards and what fits us the most. I personnaly play my runed halos MD because the prison approach is something I am very confortable with. Some of us like it more agressive and its totaly correct. There are many ways to play draw go and I wont judge, but please, don't come here with a decl jaming 15 creatures, 10 sorceries and 4 AV and call it draw go
Third topic, just wanted to thank you all again for sharing your opinions and idea, not forgetting your valuable play testing results. And to all the new comer, even tho some here are not agreeing on this, I really think it would be profitable to you if you'd read the 300 pages of this thread. It is full of treasures, and will be less time consuming than reading a small book.
Good luck to you all in your next matches!
More testing has shown that I really don't want 3 verdict or the 2 secures. I think more discard and spot removal may be in the cards for me so I have more early interaction. Opinions, also do you feel this still belongs here as I'm trying for a more draw go strategy, I guess you could call it esper Flash.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Aren't you scared of just building a weaker mentor's deck?
I'd argue the playstyle of this build is much different from a mentors list, this still holds the reactive elements of draw go but is also able to apply pressure early. Which is something the meta really needs. If I wanted to play a mentor deck I could but I don't feel that's well positioned right now. I think this deck has a good playstyle and a mentor list doesn't come close to replicating that. I'm interested in why you think this is just a weaker mentor list though.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I am still firmly in the opinion that if you are running Logic Knots you really want the option to use them early wheen needed (turn 2 as a force spike), and there aren't more useful delve enablers than Serum Visions (any extra help is welcomed too, such as more fetchlands or inquisition of kozilek). If you cut Logic Knots, Serum Visions can go.
I will add that Celestial Purge is one of the best sideboard cards in the list, despite that I don't really like Purge in Esper. Not sure why, but Purge has been great against everything. It hits all of the old stuff, but now also hits Bedlam Reveler, Swiftspear/Death's Shadow, Grim Flayer, Nahiri (not really new, but it doesn't get mentioned enough). I guess Esper needs the sb space -- UW plays Halo and Condemn main, doesn't need 5-6 slots for TS and Surg, etc. I play 2x Stony Silence because, "Why not?" -- and I still have plenty room to mess around.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
Inquisition
Bolt
Ancestral vision
Terminate
Damnation
Knot/ leak
Snapcaster
K command.
It's like a laundry list of good / powerful cards in modern. And they're all cheap in mana cost, not clunky, and the mana is great.
My finisher (in leiu of easily disruptive stuff like angler or tasigur) , has been cavern of souls into Keranos or aetherling. Plus 4 tar pit / snap bolt
I'm about a dozen cards away from owning it. Can you message me your list?
Can you message me list as well, I own grixis midrange anyway so it shouldn't be hard to make a full control list.
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
I've dabbled in cruel control a bit, and if I owned damnations, I'd probably be playing that right now.
Someone also mentioned bant draw-go a page or two back, if they'd post their most recent list, that would also be appreciated.
I've got conceptual lists of my own for both decks, but I'd love to compare.
Re: my mana base. 5 shocks seems like a lot, but there are also 6 basics. I fetch a lot of tapped shock lands; if I had serum visions, I would cut down the 3rd fountain. the second watery grave is really important post board against any deck trying to disrupt your mana: its a third fetchable black source, and it means all your fetches are live draws for black mana if you have the first one hit by molten rain or something.
Speaking of serum visions: you pretty much want it in esper only if you are generally playing verdict or bust games. Personally, I would run a 5th wrath effect before serum visions.
Let's see... uh, collective brutality: better in a tap out shell with walkers. Metagame call card. Same with lingering souls and mainboard discard. In this meta, tap out is probably just better.
Early interaction options: wretched banquet, vendetta, deathmark, oust, condemn, sunlance. The only reason to mainboard the discard over removal is for relevance against combo; I prefer to primarily handle combo via the sideboard, and I prefer permanent answers like lock pieces and extraction effects to repeated quantities of discard.
Gifts for any pile involving noxious revival is usually just being cute. If you play gifts, spend the two slots for the mainboard elesh norn KO, and play thirst for knowledge. The upaide of making gifts more reliable is worth a slight downgrade. If you need a value pile, snapcater/think twice/lingering souls/gifts usually does the job. If not, academy ruins/wurmcoil engine/crucible of worlds/noxious revival is the only noxious revival pile I endorse becausr it murders bgx hardcore, and buried ruin is a good alternative to revival.
Kids showing up for office hours, more later.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
I think that's a fair enough statement. I wouldn't say that simply adding another wrath solves the problem, though; you'll draw that wrath against the other half of Modern decks and Serum Visions also helps you hit your land drops.