1) How are Ancestral Vision, Glimmer of Genius and Hieroglyphic Illumination for those who have tested these ? Ancestral Vision is always a dear one of mine, Glimmer is great when it's on, but when it's stuck in hand, it really was annoying. Illumination is very versatile so far.
2) How's Search for Azcanta for you guys ? I find it great for filtering draws, however I don't use it that much for it's 3CMC card selection mode. I'm pondering betwen 2 SfA and a split between Ancestral Vision and Hieroglyphic Illumination (even 2 Think Twice). Thoughts ?
Av is not good. Its questionable as a sideboard card in jeskai/uw, but esper doesn't want it.
Glimmer in my opinion is bad, I'd always want hiero over it.
Hiero is playable, but its not super needed in esper. I've been meaning to try if 4 charm 4 hiero (and no cantrips) is enough to support terminus. Based on the few games I've played with it, probably not though.
In jeskai/UW, I think its quite good, and most lists should play atleast 2.
I think SFA is miserable, and have thought that pretty much since it was printed. Its kinda playable, because we don't have a whole lot of other options, but I'm inclined to move forward with 0, and if that seems to work out ok, I won't be looking back. I think the card is a decent amount worse with all of the field of ruin decks, trophy, etc.
If you find yourself consistently using only the front side, drop it. Think tank isn't a playable modern card.
Admittedly, Thought Erasure still takes anything without loss of life, so it might be okay, but I honestly don't have high hopes. I think most would play Inquisition of Kozilek instead, even if it's a little worse against Tron for example, and that's assuming you want to play discard at all. I think mainboard you'd probably want Inquisition, but Thoughtseize is the best sideboard discard spell.
With that said, it's not like Castigate ever saw play, so...
I have thought about trying it. Our deck is slow enough that two mana over one isn't the worst since it is unlikely that we need to cast it turn one. I am already only bringing in Thoughtseize against combo for the most part and I am hoping Unmoored Ego might shore up that matchup so maybe Discard isn't needed at all. But, the Surveil and lack of life loss can be enough of a tipping point for the additional mana to at least lead me to try it out over Thoughtseize.
Unmoored Ego is the only card I can see making it to the sideboard. I will test it, it could take a spot or two to roll over strategies like Tron, Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift, Amulet Titan, etc. It's a good card. Mission Briefing isn't bad, but Snapcaster is better in my opinion.
I picked up 2 Egos that I am going to try out. My meta is only 8-10 people and there is Living End, Titanshift, GW Value, Tron, Burn, Breach/Emrakul, and a couple other I am forgetting. My Living End matchup is pretty good (though it sucks getting hit by Avalanche Riders) so I am really wanting it for Tron, Titanshift, and Breach/Emrakul.
1) How are Ancestral Vision, Glimmer of Genius and Hieroglyphic Illumination for those who have tested these ? Ancestral Vision is always a dear one of mine, Glimmer is great when it's on, but when it's stuck in hand, it really was annoying. Illumination is very versatile so far.
2) How's Search for Azcanta for you guys ? I find it great for filtering draws, however I don't use it that much for it's 3CMC card selection mode. I'm pondering betwen 2 SfA and a split between Ancestral Vision and Hieroglyphic Illumination (even 2 Think Twice). Thoughts ?
Thanks for the input !
1) I have 1 copy of Glimmer and it is decent but I am not sure if it is the best. Do you run Illuminations with Terminus or do you just prefer the ability to cycle it early? I like Glimmer's ability to Scry over the early cycling of Illuminations. I have thought of trying Chemister's Insight. The ability to draw 4 (obviously only gaining 1 card each time) can be decent to continue digging. I would end up just swapping Glimmer for it.
2) I like Search but I am only playing one. I am not sure if it is great, but it works and I like when I transform it as it gives me a land and card selection. It has been useful and I am not sure what else would replace it.
1) How are Ancestral Vision, Glimmer of Genius and Hieroglyphic Illumination for those who have tested these ? Ancestral Vision is always a dear one of mine, Glimmer is great when it's on, but when it's stuck in hand, it really was annoying. Illumination is very versatile so far.
Imo, Ancestral has always been trash (just my opinion). Even on T1, Ancestral is just so slow (but good nonetheless if you aren't already dead). It would be fine if extras could be hardcasted later on, but they just can't. For this reason, I've never found AV to be particularly good. Glimmer is great, but just too slow (a 4 mana spell is just never being cast against AdNaus, Burn, Storm, etc., even at instant speed). Hieroglyphic is probably fine, but cycling it feels so anemic that it makes you feel like you shouldn't be playing it. In fact, Opt or Serum might just be better at that point, since I've rarely ever casted Hiero for 4 mana. I think Opt/Serum is probably better than any of these, despite not truly being card advantage, because it's actually worth its CMC and you get your value from it immediately. Not sure I would even play Opt tho.
2) How's Search for Azcanta for you guys ? I find it great for filtering draws, however I don't use it that much for it's 3CMC card selection mode. I'm pondering betwen 2 SfA and a split between Ancestral Vision and Hieroglyphic Illumination (even 2 Think Twice). Thoughts?
Search for Azcanta is fine. I think a 2-mana Think Tank actually is somewhat playable, actually, but it feels terrible to commit mana into it some times. I think I use the land side for blue mana more often than actually activating it, honestly. Ramping into Snap-Verdict or Snap-Cryptic, for example, is actually pretty cool, not to mention that it actually fixes your mana for Cryptic. Perhaps I wouldn't be playing it, but the issue is that you can't win mirrors if they're playing Azcanta and Fields and you're not playing Azcanta, since we only have 2-3 fields (sometimes less) to actually deal with Azcanta. I never want to blow an Esper Charm on their SfA if I can avoid it.
At the end of the day, my Esper lists still start with 4 Charms and 4 Think Twice, because they get the job done in ways that other cards just can't. I usually play 2 SfA also, but it's because it's the best option of what's left and a complete mirror breaker.
I've been trying one SfA main. I feel the same as Annihilator, it's not particularly good but we kinda need it because other decks are playing it and we lose if we don't. In legacy I actually use it as a SB card, but I don't feel I have enough room for that in modern, so I've been trying the one-of. Zero might actually be the right number though, since on the MUs we want it usually there are fields or trophies lying around. I am still on the 4 charm 3/4 TT plan for esper too.
I was playing UW, but since I got to the US I played some FNMs and in my area control/combo are very present.. I've played only one creature MU on the last 7 games I did here, so I'll take esper again to this week's FNM and see how it goes - it should be a good metagame for it. Of course, we all know that this week I'll only get good UW MUs and regret everything, but that's how it goes.
Hi fellow esperers, yesterday I had time to play at lgs again. 2 sfa, 4 snaps, 2 teferi, 2 jaces, 2 verdict and 1 settle
Round 1: 2-0 against uw control (esper charm was mvp)
1-0
Round 2: 2-1 against storm (again, esper charm Was mvp here)
2-0
Round 3: 2-1 against junk
3-0
Round 4: 0-2 against serum powder eldrazi (really got stomped beyond chance here)
3-1
Round 5: 0-2 against dredge (really got close to stabilizing in both games)
3-2
Overall good taking into account this was the first time playing in months (some plays were sloppy AF, some even blatant misplays).
I’ve been curious about Terminus so next time I’m going up to 3 jace and 4 terminus, - 2 verdicts, 1 settle, 1 snap and 1 snare. I’ll let you know how it works! Cheers
Edit: I’ve been reading the last page and it’s a pity that this thread has gone that way -I’ve always played fringe decks and there’s always the “just play TIER1” argument-, but I’ll chime in saying that esper charm is really great in control mirrors which are at an all time high nowadays. I do realize that playing terminus has it’s great benefits and that’s why I’ll be trying it, but mana stability has never been an issue for 3 color decks in this format as most of the good fair decks are in fact 3 colors, at least splashing the 3rd.
I also think that “numbers speak for themselves” is an argument that has to be taken with a grain of salt, because most people will just play whatever deck they see being good, and the fact is most that people have to read esper charm twice to see what it does. I’m not claiming that esper is the underground top deck, but I’m certain that if a comparable amount of people to those playing UW played the deck it would certainly be working it’s way up and we would see it a lot.
Hi fellow esperers, yesterday I had time to play at lgs again. 2 sfa, 4 snaps, 2 teferi, 2 jaces, 2 verdict and 1 settle
Round 1: 2-0 against uw control (esper charm was mvp)
1-0
Round 2: 2-1 against storm (again, esper charm Was mvp here)
2-0
Round 3: 2-1 against junk
3-0
Round 4: 0-2 against serum powder eldrazi (really got stomped beyond chance here)
3-1
Round 5: 0-2 against dredge (really got close to stabilizing in both games)
3-2
Overall good taking into account this was the first time playing in months (some plays were sloppy AF, some even blatant misplays).
I’ve been curious about Terminus so next time I’m going up to 3 jace and 4 terminus, - 2 verdicts, 1 settle, 1 snap and 1 snare. I’ll let you know how it works! Cheers
Edit: I’ve been reading the last page and it’s a pity that this thread has gone that way -I’ve always played fringe decks and there’s always the “just play TIER1” argument-, but I’ll chime in saying that esper charm is really great in control mirrors which are at an all time high nowadays. I do realize that playing terminus has it’s great benefits and that’s why I’ll be trying it, but mana stability has never been an issue for 3 color decks in this format as most of the good fair decks are in fact 3 colors, at least splashing the 3rd.
I also think that “numbers speak for themselves” is an argument that has to be taken with a grain of salt, because most people will just play whatever deck they see being good, and the fact is most that people have to read esper charm twice to see what it does. I’m not claiming that esper is the underground top deck, but I’m certain that if a comparable amount of people to those playing UW played the deck it would certainly be working it’s way up and we would see it a lot.
Congrats ! Nice reading you. I feel honestly that 3-2 is where we stand overall, could go 4-1, but most of the times we get surprised by fast aggro decks or Dredge-like decks. And I don't think we are on the same level as UW, but I feel way more comfortable with Esper. Miracles is clunky beyond words, but it seems to work out fine in the meta. However, at FNM, I get wrecked with UW and I'm doing fine with Esper (sometimes cashing in, sometimes getting walked all over).
Card is good.
There was a recent resurgence due to trophy being printed (and hitting all of our card advantage sources), but I've been on 2-3 for years.
I played Unmoored Ego and it really helped to shore up combo decks, better than just Thoughtseize / Surgical Extraction. It's a bit slower, but on the play on game 2 (assuming you lose game 1 against combo), you're in a good place. For game 3, you've got to find it in the first few turns too.
I'm thinking about switching my Serum Vision for Opt. I run a playset of Serum and it feels good, but I'm wondering if instant speed scrying + drawing a card would be better ? I'm not running any miracle spells, so that's why I'm still on 4 Serum, but I surely don't want 4 Think Twice just for raw card advantage and having no 1 CMC cantrip. Thoughts guys?
Also, I've read the last couple of pages and haven't seen much about Settle the Wreckage. What do you guys think of it ?
I'm on 2 seize 2 extraction 2 ego in the board right now.
Haven't played enough with it to really say, but so far I'm not inclined to change. Ego has been good for sure.
I've had some lines like bounce bridge + ego bridge against lantern, ego gemstone mine out of amulet so he can't pay pact of negation, ego valakut, etc.
If you're not on any miracle spells, think twice/hiero > 1cmc cantrips.
If you are on miracles (as I am) then you probably want the set of opts.
I'm not super high on settle the wreckage. If you feel its needed then you should probably just be playing terminus.
That being said, 1 copy of settle in the 75 is probably ok.
I'm on 2 seize 2 extraction 2 ego in the board right now.
Haven't played enough with it to really say, but so far I'm not inclined to change. Ego has been good for sure.
I've had some lines like bounce bridge + ego bridge against lantern, ego gemstone mine out of amulet so he can't pay pact of negation, ego valakut, etc.
If you're not on any miracle spells, think twice/hiero > 1cmc cantrips.
If you are on miracles (as I am) then you probably want the set of opts.
I'm not super high on settle the wreckage. If you feel its needed then you should probably just be playing terminus.
That being said, 1 copy of settle in the 75 is probably ok.
I'm feeling fine now with 1 Surgical, 1 Seize and 2 Ego.
With Azcanta, I don't feel like I need TT anymore. Maybe 1 copy of it, but I really like having the card selection. 2 Jace and 2 SfA provide great card advantage and 4 Esper Charm is really a staple. I could test again with 1-2 TT, but I'd feel there's too much air then.
I get you about Settle the Wreckage. I'm not convinced, but having a 2-1 split mainboard could work I guess.
Against Dredge, I'm wondering if people are packing up Rest in Peace or Nihill Spellbomb ? Surely Rest in Peace deals permanently with the graveyard, but Spellbomb provides card draw at least. Thoughts?
I would rather play think twice than azcanta or 1 cmc cantrips, with the possible exception of hiero.
Dredge isn't consistently beatable without playing a ***** ton of hate + terminus.
As in, my build of 4 terminus, 2 surgical, 2 ego, 1 nosb, 1 angel isn't even close to enough. Adding 2 rest in peace to that is still not going to bring me up to 50/50, unless they're mainboard.
Hi, I decided to come back to modern and I was wondering if esper-gifts is the right way to go? or is it draw-go better suited for nowadays meta?
My meta is like 60% aggro/10% combo/30% control. I used to play grixis tapped-out control but I was losing ALOT (to aggro and control as well) and then I decided to give it a break.
I know that there is a forum section dedicated to orientate people like me, but I wanted to ask the experts first
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
There's some Esper Gifts talk in the 4C Gifts thread.
I run it some times but there's a bunch of different ways to build it and Esper isn't especially popular in the first place so it's hard to say if one version is strictly better than another. I think it's more of a tailor to your meta type of deal
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2) How's Search for Azcanta for you guys ? I find it great for filtering draws, however I don't use it that much for it's 3CMC card selection mode. I'm pondering betwen 2 SfA and a split between Ancestral Vision and Hieroglyphic Illumination (even 2 Think Twice). Thoughts ?
Thanks for the input !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Glimmer in my opinion is bad, I'd always want hiero over it.
Hiero is playable, but its not super needed in esper. I've been meaning to try if 4 charm 4 hiero (and no cantrips) is enough to support terminus. Based on the few games I've played with it, probably not though.
In jeskai/UW, I think its quite good, and most lists should play atleast 2.
I think SFA is miserable, and have thought that pretty much since it was printed. Its kinda playable, because we don't have a whole lot of other options, but I'm inclined to move forward with 0, and if that seems to work out ok, I won't be looking back. I think the card is a decent amount worse with all of the field of ruin decks, trophy, etc.
If you find yourself consistently using only the front side, drop it. Think tank isn't a playable modern card.
I picked up 2 Egos that I am going to try out. My meta is only 8-10 people and there is Living End, Titanshift, GW Value, Tron, Burn, Breach/Emrakul, and a couple other I am forgetting. My Living End matchup is pretty good (though it sucks getting hit by Avalanche Riders) so I am really wanting it for Tron, Titanshift, and Breach/Emrakul.
1) I have 1 copy of Glimmer and it is decent but I am not sure if it is the best. Do you run Illuminations with Terminus or do you just prefer the ability to cycle it early? I like Glimmer's ability to Scry over the early cycling of Illuminations. I have thought of trying Chemister's Insight. The ability to draw 4 (obviously only gaining 1 card each time) can be decent to continue digging. I would end up just swapping Glimmer for it.
2) I like Search but I am only playing one. I am not sure if it is great, but it works and I like when I transform it as it gives me a land and card selection. It has been useful and I am not sure what else would replace it.
Imo, Ancestral has always been trash (just my opinion). Even on T1, Ancestral is just so slow (but good nonetheless if you aren't already dead). It would be fine if extras could be hardcasted later on, but they just can't. For this reason, I've never found AV to be particularly good. Glimmer is great, but just too slow (a 4 mana spell is just never being cast against AdNaus, Burn, Storm, etc., even at instant speed). Hieroglyphic is probably fine, but cycling it feels so anemic that it makes you feel like you shouldn't be playing it. In fact, Opt or Serum might just be better at that point, since I've rarely ever casted Hiero for 4 mana. I think Opt/Serum is probably better than any of these, despite not truly being card advantage, because it's actually worth its CMC and you get your value from it immediately. Not sure I would even play Opt tho.
Search for Azcanta is fine. I think a 2-mana Think Tank actually is somewhat playable, actually, but it feels terrible to commit mana into it some times. I think I use the land side for blue mana more often than actually activating it, honestly. Ramping into Snap-Verdict or Snap-Cryptic, for example, is actually pretty cool, not to mention that it actually fixes your mana for Cryptic. Perhaps I wouldn't be playing it, but the issue is that you can't win mirrors if they're playing Azcanta and Fields and you're not playing Azcanta, since we only have 2-3 fields (sometimes less) to actually deal with Azcanta. I never want to blow an Esper Charm on their SfA if I can avoid it.
At the end of the day, my Esper lists still start with 4 Charms and 4 Think Twice, because they get the job done in ways that other cards just can't. I usually play 2 SfA also, but it's because it's the best option of what's left and a complete mirror breaker.
UWB Esper Draw-Go Control (clicky)
UW Azorius Control (clicky)
Currently pursuing a degree in Biochemistry.
EDH: I've decided I don't like multiplayer formats.
I was playing UW, but since I got to the US I played some FNMs and in my area control/combo are very present.. I've played only one creature MU on the last 7 games I did here, so I'll take esper again to this week's FNM and see how it goes - it should be a good metagame for it. Of course, we all know that this week I'll only get good UW MUs and regret everything, but that's how it goes.
Round 1: 2-0 against uw control (esper charm was mvp)
1-0
Round 2: 2-1 against storm (again, esper charm Was mvp here)
2-0
Round 3: 2-1 against junk
3-0
Round 4: 0-2 against serum powder eldrazi (really got stomped beyond chance here)
3-1
Round 5: 0-2 against dredge (really got close to stabilizing in both games)
3-2
Overall good taking into account this was the first time playing in months (some plays were sloppy AF, some even blatant misplays).
I’ve been curious about Terminus so next time I’m going up to 3 jace and 4 terminus, - 2 verdicts, 1 settle, 1 snap and 1 snare. I’ll let you know how it works! Cheers
Edit: I’ve been reading the last page and it’s a pity that this thread has gone that way -I’ve always played fringe decks and there’s always the “just play TIER1” argument-, but I’ll chime in saying that esper charm is really great in control mirrors which are at an all time high nowadays. I do realize that playing terminus has it’s great benefits and that’s why I’ll be trying it, but mana stability has never been an issue for 3 color decks in this format as most of the good fair decks are in fact 3 colors, at least splashing the 3rd.
I also think that “numbers speak for themselves” is an argument that has to be taken with a grain of salt, because most people will just play whatever deck they see being good, and the fact is most that people have to read esper charm twice to see what it does. I’m not claiming that esper is the underground top deck, but I’m certain that if a comparable amount of people to those playing UW played the deck it would certainly be working it’s way up and we would see it a lot.
Congrats ! Nice reading you. I feel honestly that 3-2 is where we stand overall, could go 4-1, but most of the times we get surprised by fast aggro decks or Dredge-like decks. And I don't think we are on the same level as UW, but I feel way more comfortable with Esper. Miracles is clunky beyond words, but it seems to work out fine in the meta. However, at FNM, I get wrecked with UW and I'm doing fine with Esper (sometimes cashing in, sometimes getting walked all over).
Cheers !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I have not jammed esper charms for a while and really feel like it now
4 opt
2 snap
3 jace
2 teferi
1 rev
1 entreat
3 cryptic
3 knot
2 snare
4 path
2 push
4 terminus
3 colonnade
1 tarpit
4 strand
4 delta
2 fountain
2 watery
3 island
2 plains
1 swamp
2 field
1 glacial
2 thoughtseize
2 ego
2 extraction
1 nosb
1 ee
1 purge
2 negate
1 dispel
1 bsa
1 lyra
1 blessed alliance
ps : why are lot of control lists on 2 snare currently ?
There was a recent resurgence due to trophy being printed (and hitting all of our card advantage sources), but I've been on 2-3 for years.
I'm thinking about switching my Serum Vision for Opt. I run a playset of Serum and it feels good, but I'm wondering if instant speed scrying + drawing a card would be better ? I'm not running any miracle spells, so that's why I'm still on 4 Serum, but I surely don't want 4 Think Twice just for raw card advantage and having no 1 CMC cantrip. Thoughts guys?
Also, I've read the last couple of pages and haven't seen much about Settle the Wreckage. What do you guys think of it ?
Cheers !
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Haven't played enough with it to really say, but so far I'm not inclined to change. Ego has been good for sure.
I've had some lines like bounce bridge + ego bridge against lantern, ego gemstone mine out of amulet so he can't pay pact of negation, ego valakut, etc.
If you're not on any miracle spells, think twice/hiero > 1cmc cantrips.
If you are on miracles (as I am) then you probably want the set of opts.
I'm not super high on settle the wreckage. If you feel its needed then you should probably just be playing terminus.
That being said, 1 copy of settle in the 75 is probably ok.
I'm feeling fine now with 1 Surgical, 1 Seize and 2 Ego.
With Azcanta, I don't feel like I need TT anymore. Maybe 1 copy of it, but I really like having the card selection. 2 Jace and 2 SfA provide great card advantage and 4 Esper Charm is really a staple. I could test again with 1-2 TT, but I'd feel there's too much air then.
I get you about Settle the Wreckage. I'm not convinced, but having a 2-1 split mainboard could work I guess.
Against Dredge, I'm wondering if people are packing up Rest in Peace or Nihill Spellbomb ? Surely Rest in Peace deals permanently with the graveyard, but Spellbomb provides card draw at least. Thoughts?
Cheers!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
Dredge isn't consistently beatable without playing a ***** ton of hate + terminus.
As in, my build of 4 terminus, 2 surgical, 2 ego, 1 nosb, 1 angel isn't even close to enough. Adding 2 rest in peace to that is still not going to bring me up to 50/50, unless they're mainboard.
My meta is like 60% aggro/10% combo/30% control. I used to play grixis tapped-out control but I was losing ALOT (to aggro and control as well) and then I decided to give it a break.
I know that there is a forum section dedicated to orientate people like me, but I wanted to ask the experts first
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
I run it some times but there's a bunch of different ways to build it and Esper isn't especially popular in the first place so it's hard to say if one version is strictly better than another. I think it's more of a tailor to your meta type of deal