MTG Salvation

I don't love the sideboard beatsticks, I've mentioned for a while. They can be good, but they're far from uncuttable.

Esper may well be better than grixis. The loss of path to exile hurts non-white control decks so much right now.

Example 75:


Thats one of the previous lists I've played.
As you can find in the last page or two, I'm not sold on dropping the think twices. Cutting the opts for 2 think twice, a wrath, maybe another land, etc, could be decent

Quote from darkvoidman »

Hello guys.I was playing grixis control and i would like to try esper right now.Is it any better that grixis in the current meta?

This is a list i tinkered ( https://imgur.com/a/faZTIFx ) any thoughts about impoving it? Moreover what about esper gifts(with iona and or/Elesh Norn) maindeck or as a second plan after sb?

I suggest cutting a Snapcaster or 2, seeing as they're underwhelming in higher numbers for Esper. 4 Field of Ruin is super greedy too, I've had issues playing more than 2, but I sometimes play the 3rd because I'm greedy haha. I suggest trimming 2 Fields for an Island and a Colonnade. Finally, I think that you could move a Fatal Push to the board to play another wincon main, probably a Teferi or a 2nd Secure.

Took my esper list out to a 2-2 tonight but very very close on the losses should have won at least one with a little break my way.




Round 1: 2-0 vs monoblack devotion
New player. Only funny thing was when I was at 8 and he exsanguinates for 5 through a leyline (doesnt target) - almost a fail.

Round 2: 2-1 vs affinity
Draw enough removal = win. Karn is pretty beastly in this deck tbh esp when I'm path-ramping them into it. Those tokens tend to be 4/4 or 5/5.

Round 3: 1-2 vs merfolk
G1 drew oodles of removal easy W.
G2 got slapped for like 13 in one turn even though I wrath next turn die to vialed in *****.
G3 horrific. I miss 4th land drop for 2 turns with verdict in hand. He cursecatchers both my t2 think twice and my t3 flashback... t4 I clique myself still dont find land. He cliques me takes a path (da fuq) still dont find land. I block his clique he cliques me again taking verdict and I find land with a settle the wreckage now in hand. On his main step he spreading seas... can't settle. Next turn I draw a white source! he spreading seas AGAIN and swings. death with settle in hand... brutal.

Round 4: 1-2 vs vizier company
G1: t2 druid, t3 vizier logic knot for 2 not enough plays balista infinite from hand lol t3 kill.
G2: he mulls to 4 and its still a ridiculously close game. He has druid and cocos, I path druid in resp, he lays a druid and a vizier, I untap and explosives, and he then just keeps laying finks and combo pieces as I slowly take over.
G3: very close. Unfortunately I'm at 4 life so everything must die until I draw rev or secure. He witnesses for company, I have verdict but cant let him company and then swing at me, so I verdict. He companies on his turn while I'm tapped low to play rhonas and selfless spirit. I have explosives on 2. He untaps and draws a druid. Pumps it twice, I explosives, he sacs spirit and kills me with rhonas. Was hellbent for way too long here leaning on a colonade to stop finks for like 5 turns. Just desperately needed an end game piece for a long time - 2x secure, teferi, jace, or rev.

All told 2-2 matches, 6-5 games. Not awful.

The only obvious change I would make is switching wrath for the 3rd verdict. It is more important to me that my sweeper not get countered by merfolk or death's shadow than having a maybe-relevant alternative to draw vs meddling mage.

Less obvious is finding sufficient mix of cards to beat burn more often than not. It's the one deck that is almost guaranteed to be at the LGS and I'm not sure one rev mainboard and 2 BA in the side is going to get there very often. Just not sure if there's a higher punch card (kor firewalker?) that I could run.

More leylines might be an option. I dont know if burn would bring in revelries by default (most lists have few or no targets for it - would be unusual to run 3 leylines)

Kalitas is a decent idea - sort of a mix of baneslayer and rest in peace. I generally dont like double black because its a tall order to have verdict, charm, cryptic, and bb online turn four - and having the wrong mana leads to fetch-shocks that undo the life gain you were looking for.

Id still try it tho.

I guess the question in part then is are multiple leylines an efficient and effective approach, ie do they do enough vs burn while also hitting other decks. Ive usually gone with one because its never dead, whereas the second generally is. We arent fast enough to crush someone off a t0 leyline but we are durdly enough we could tap out for it t4 to cast it in a pinch.

Ive even done one leyline md over the runed halo at times - ive just never done more than one in this deck.

Also, for those wondering if Burn boards in DRev -- I always discuss sideboarding with my opponents after each match and have literally always seen DRev come in against me (not exaggerating). And I don't even play any targets for them to see mainboard. But they always go -4x Searing Blaze +4 DRev post board (which I think is wrong, but that's easy to say knowing our decklists). That's why I don't board in Runed Halo against Burn. Anyone who knows me knows that I've been playing this decks since before Pod was Banned (and back when Burn was Naya and on Atarka's Commands), and I have honestly never had an opponent decide to leave Revelry in the board -- maaaybe one time, but I'm pretty sure that opponent brought in like 2 DRevs and not all 4.

Which sounds like additional leylines is not the place to be. I would guess the most broadly applicable burn cards are timely reinforcements and blessed alliance. Dispels and spell snares work too. Then a bsa if you got it? How is our game 1 in general, I feel like its awful because we wind up trying to stop boros charms and bolts w cryptics

The best card I've found against Burn is actually Gideon of the Trials, which is part of the reason I play them mainboard now. Worst case, It's a lifegain spell that can't be skullcracked and likely costs them 2 cards. Best cast, it's lifegain and a 4/4 beastick that kills them. After that I like Alliance, as it's the best rate for lifegain at instant speed and doubles as creature removal in the case that you don't draw a Path/Push. I actually like a card that nobody here plays as 3rd best option against Burn: Kitchen Finks (in the sideboard, mainly as a Burn-specific card). It's similar to Gideon in what it does, but it's only very good against Burn in our deck (nobody wants to tap out on T3 in any other matchup). Then there's Spell Queller, which is a VClique that doesn't give them a replacement card and can block Burn's creatures (again, which is why I play Queller over Clique in the board).

As for Leyline, I would consider it after Queller, and if it sticks with a Dispel/Snare backup it's insanely good. There is one issue that turned me away from it though -- Burn commonly keeps creature heavy draws against us, and they're very very good against Leyline. You could correct this by leaving in/playing a lot of removal (like bringing in Purges and leaving in Verdicts), but then you just die without a T0 Leyline. And even when you have the T0 Leyline, you usually need a Dispel or Snare too in order to back it up. I didn't like the dichotomy of with vs. without T0 Leyline, and even when I had T0 Leyline, I could still easily die if the opponent has a creature-heavy draw or if I don't have a backup counter for the DRev. So I cut it.

I haven't tested a whole lot with Collective Brutality, but that's because we honestly never want to pitch cards to it -- even lands. So yeah, it's actually pretty decent against Burn, but then you have no gas at all and still lose. I don't like Timely Reinforcements because it's really weak to Skullcrack, but it can make a good 1-2-punch with Alliance: eot Alliance + counter, untap -> Timely.

Edit: Oh and Baneslayer. Baneslayer is literally game over if you untap with it, but it does nothing if you can't actually tap out for it (ie if you don't already have the other tools you need for the matchup). You can't just windmill slam Baneslayer on T5 and expect to live between that end step and your opponent's main phase (I mean, if you do and win every time let me know! I'm never that ballsy). Also, worth noting that Burn does play Path to Exile in the sideboard. If you happen to win G2 with Baneslayer, in come the Paths. Then you sidestep and board out Baneslayers, but it makes winning with Gideon/Colonnade much harder and bones Cliques/Quellers.

Am I correct that vs fast decks we take out cryptics? Specifically burn but even like elves, affinity, infect etc? Depends if there is anything worse to remove I guess but generally don't want too much expensive stuff and cryptic is a set of four cmcs?

I mean vs burn what are the worst cards in a standard maindeck? You either chop some counterspells (cryptic) removal (path or verdict) draw (charm/tt) or your win conditions (walker/secure). Is verdict worse than cryptic? Ive heard we should never cut charms.

I cut cryptics a lot.
In general, you want to either be a mono-counterspell deck or a mono-removal deck postboard, depending on the matchup.
Against most aggressive decks, you want to be mono removal.
That being said, logic knot is quite weak against elves, affinity, etc, and may or may not be worth cutting over cryptic command.
Against burn, I will almost always cut cryptics though.
I almost never cut charms.
Against burn, I would leave in no more than 2 wraths. I'd cut think twices and cryptics after that.

I never cut Cryptic to 0, but I usually cut from 3-4 to 1-2 vs. faster decks. Negates and Logic Knots are usually the first cuts vs. creature decks. I'll tend to cut Negate before LK (except against Burn), and the 1st Cryptic before the 1st LK (except against Cavern of Souls). I cut a land on the draw a lot. Cantrips get cut quite a bit, too. I'm running 2 Teferi/1 Jace/1 WSZ right now, so I'll cut planeswalkers and bring in creatures vs. some of the faster decks.

You guys are waaaay underestimating Collective Brutality. After playing with it more, I'd say it may be the best of the 3 cards that are the reason to be Esper over Jeskai (the others being Night of Souls' Betrayal and Thoughtseize).

I'll be at SCG Indi in a couple weekends. Last big tournament I played Breach Moon, so I'm excited to bring Esper to the big leagues again. Last time I did was when Git probe was still in the format and I got turn 3 Infected out of the tournament while holding Blessed Alliance and Condemn in hand.

Yeah vs fast decks I usually want to be as low to the ground as possible with the least dead cards in the deck. That being said the deck is really just 4 pieces: creature removal, counterspells, cantrips, and win conditions so what to cut isn't always obvious. Vs creatureless deck? sure. Vs decks with caverns/vials? Sure. Anything in between it gets trickier which is most of modern. Burn in particular is a fast deck thats actually like half spells half creatures so I just assumed CMC becomes the driver for the cuts.

Shaving a land on the draw in some/most situations seems legit too - what land would you generally drop - a fetch?

I think we all know CB is a great card, and I'm sure any deck you throw it into it will always be okay and sometimes great - just it has very low synergy with this particular deck. If I'm some kind of esper midrange lingering souls deck? CB me bro. Draw-go where I want to make land drops all game long? Sorry what are my dead cards to pitch here? Why am I tapping at sorcery speed when my strategy is to interact on opponents turn as much as possible?

Jace has disappointed me quite a bit so far. He just always feels too slow or win more. I've yet to -3 teferi but knowing I can feels great, and untapping the lands is surprisingly good when we can fire off charms and think twices on our own turn for "free" to say nothing of that initial turn where it may allow us to get a 5 loyalty walker down and have counter magic up to boot.

That being said playing AGAINST Jace with pretty much any deck, if he survives >1 turn I usually find I've lost the game. Just not sure how often that's because the game was lost anyways and how often my opponents cant even cast their jace because it'll lose them the game:S

Went 3-1 in Modern FNM tonight: 2-0 Mardu Pyro, 1-2 Burn, 2-0 Mardu Pyro (our discussions on ECharming them really helped actually), and 2-0 UB Turns. Sweet night, still can't reasonably beat Burn. Q_Q

Highlight of the night -- G2 after I Surg'd Jace and Gigadrowse against turns he casts Collective Brutality with no Howling Mines in play, sees my hand of 2x ECharm, 2x Logic Knot, Spell Queller, and Cryptic, and scoops.

Hello Esper community,

Has anyone recently redone this article to reflect changes to the format? This is a great article but is out of date. I have looked but have not found. Please let me know! I love running Modern Esper and would love to see a rewrite of this great article!

Thank you!

So one big problem I have is planes walkers. If you don't counter them they are very sticky for us to get rid of, we generally have to cryptic bounce and then charm or counter. That's very slow and inefficient and the walker probably accrued three turns of value in the meantime. Either Liliana, Gideon's, Chandra torch, etc.

Another thing frustrating me is how decks vulnerable to verdict play cards that almost incidentally save them from it. Ezuri, selfless spirit, spell queller, etc. Low opportunity cost cards that counter one of our decks biggest advantages. Like cavern of Souls wasn't bad enough for this!

My current setup is 4 path 3 snap 2 push (and 3 verdict). For swarm decks with wrath protection its just the tempo loss that can be brutal, and sometimes you just dont have one of those 6 removal spells, or you get a push but no fetch to turn it on to kill queller/ezuri. I had a handful of games where I had t4 verdict ready to go and it ends up not being enough because one of these random turds drops on the board. Thats pretty frustrating is all - needing both a path/push and a verdict in order to stabilize vs a creature deck.

Ive definitely had the 2 snap path push hands too that just dismantle a creature deck like clockwork verdict or no verdict - something about losing to a vreature swarm despite t4 verdict just feels gross regardless.

On walkers, ive run pithing needle in the board at times and I run a negate and 2 knots main plus two secure the wastes which can pressure walkers pretty well from turn 4 on if needed. Its harder when you get hit with 1 mana discard into walkers since they invariably strip away your few answers (counter or secure).

I dont know theres anything more to be done for either problem - its just a limitation of the deck. Wrath-resistant creature decks can be hard; and planeswalker heavy decks (esp w targeted discard) can be hard. Neither is a huge portion of the metagame luckily, but id just be aware that these are some troubling things for esper to deal with.

Id really like a WUB instant exile target nonland permanent for this deck - an anguished unmaking without the life loss effectively. Or some other maelstrom pulse catch-all removal in esper colours.

Annihilator, if you have any specific examples of esper charming mardu, could you share?

There is no primer re-write that currently exists. Not sure if amalek is working on one.

A vindicate on color would definitely be great.
I think unmaking is kinda-playable in the board, but its not a slam dunk. Celestial purge does clean up a good number of walkers.

That being said, we do have walker answers. We have tar pit, we have bounce off cryptic, we have cheap countermagic, we have unmaking, we have d sphere, we have teferi tuck.

Quote from Cody_X »

Annihilator, if you have any specific examples of esper charming mardu, could you share?

The most important part of casting ECharm against them is actually not casting it at all, tbh. There were several instances that I had a counter, a removal spell, and a Charm in hand on my Mardu opponents' eot when they had ~4 cards in hand, and I chose to keep the ECharm in hand rather than casting it to draw -- I think 2 or 3 times to be exact. When you hold onto the Charm and they cast a discard spell hoping to poke a hole, you're very insulated against Blood Moon, which is the easiest way for them to win the match -- in fact, you practically lose on the spot unless you have enough basics to get rid of the Moon. We have plenty of counters, removal, and Wraths to deal with Reveler (which they can't cast more often than you'd think), Pyro, and Souls as long as you're patient and smart. We also have many ways to gain card advantage with Walkers, Snaps, Think Twices, and Cryptics, so keeping up isn't too terribly difficult. Thus, waiting for them to gas out with repeated Lootings and discard spells lets you ECharm them, draw if you need to, and cover the Blood Moon angle.

Also, keeping a Blood Moon from resolving is very strong when you have a Search in play, which they really can't deal with once it flips.