Thoughts? Another moon coming for red, to hate on Tron and anyone running special lands like Inventors' Fair or Inkmoth Nexus.
Not great in our decks as a 1-drop, and not available for anyone not running red...makes me say hmmm nonetheless.
Alpine Moon
R
Enchantment
As Alpine Moon enters the battlefield, choose a nonbasic land card name. Lands your opponents control with the chosen name lose all land types and abilities, and they gain "tap: Add one mana of any color."
Maybe in the sideboard in a tron-heavy meta? I'm really turned off my the 1 cmc, and I think what we really need against tron is a lock to backup our moons, not more moons.
Maybe in the sideboard in a tron-heavy meta? I'm really turned off my the 1 cmc, and I think what we really need against tron is a lock to backup our moons, not more moons.
Maybe in the sideboard in a tron-heavy meta? I'm really turned off my the 1 cmc, and I think what we really need against tron is a lock to backup our moons, not more moons.
Yeah... If something goes from Tron, I would vote for that. I feel like my tron matchup is improving slightly. Part of that is just getting more familiar with the deck, but I've also been running more pressure in the form of Kiki-Resto in the main and Goblin Rabblemaster in the side.
Im not fond of any of the spoiled cards for once, but I just had a Johnny moment with Pulse of the Forge.
I've been wanting to run a City of Brass mana-base for years but I never thought to play Pulse and painlands together. Thinking....
Keep life totals close. Make them want to dial up a big finish. Oh - deflecting palm.
Idea anyways...
Long long LONG time ago... Pain lands were not just one of the only fixers we had in RW, but I would often find I could and would randomly activate a pain land just to Shining Shoal the damage with a Furnace of Rath out... Food for thought. I’m talking 9th was still the active core set in standard “long ago” BTW. I’ve done similar things since then from time to time. Very very Midrange RW shells. All ideas will eventually push you away from the control shell that Sun & Moon exists in and more towards Aggro or more combo.
For me personally - i was never totally a lockdown kind of guy anyways. Lockdown was (is) just a perk. This thread is still the closest thing for me, but I can tell you I get more hyped up about stuff like mono red prison than stuff like pillow fort or Lantern Control.
My best deck - my baby - was lockdown-ish but it also included Balance and Fireballs and even (sometimes) Viashino Sandstalkers.
I offer just one argument here - controlling somebody by the threat of mutual destruction is just another type of lockdown. You don't need to lock a person out of his cards to lock his deck down. It's enough just to make him feel like he can't do what his deck is designed to do. Trying to make a lockdown shell out of Modern cards is exhausting. It's a bad case of blue balls - always feeling like you're 9/10ths of the way there. I don't want to be a straight burn deck but the idea that I can just go "f___ it, taking damage is part of the plan..."
Well it has a certain appeal to me - especially right now. Of course I brew for a few days every new set. Usually doesn't amount to anything....
I've always been a fan of prison-style strategies, and I agree that it is an uphill battle in Modern. I got my start in EDH, where pure stax is viable, so I really had to shift my thinking for this format. What I've loved about Sun and Moon so far is taking it in an almost midrange direction, but instead of aggro-control, it's aggro-prison. As I've been refining my list, I find myself leaning off of the pure prison strategy and more on finding ways to speed up my clock. Sure, sometimes Blood Moon and/or Chalice are free wins in Modern, but more often they are just stumbling block. I like having a slew of PWs and the Kiki-Resto combo to close out the game. I currently run Goblin Rabblemaster in the sideboard for match-ups that require a better clock - like Tron - and I wouldn't be surprised if I end out testing him in the main deck at some point.
How about this dude? Sure, his middle ability is useles, but he provides hand-fixing on T3, and starts the clock... Not seriously considering him, but wouldnt mind opening a pack and seeing him there.
How about this dude? Sure, his middle ability is useles, but he provides hand-fixing on T3, and starts the clock... Not seriously considering him, but wouldnt mind opening a pack and seeing him there.
It would be nice to have another 3 drop PW, but I don't think he makes the cut. Gideon of the Trials is strictly better, and Nahiri is removal and a better wincon on top of filtering cards.
How about this dude? Sure, his middle ability is useles, but he provides hand-fixing on T3, and starts the clock... Not seriously considering him, but wouldnt mind opening a pack and seeing him there.
The middle ability is the whole point, since the ult takes four turns to charge. He's a tribal support card with rummaging slapped on, plain and simple.
I think you start moving more into Dragon Stompy or some sort of Dragon Skred if you try making the new Sarkhan work. It might just be a new variant or a new shell based on building restrictions to take advantage of the Tribal end. Some Thunderbreak Regents aren’t the worst cards to be dropping on turn 4 for sure and have a similar line to traditional Sun and Moon but you restrict some of your options main board and side to accommodate.
Just no really. The core set is a blow out pretty much. The odd option but nothing major.
Right now for control I would rather play Martyr proc, with its great Humans match, or if I was able to put the reps in, Lantern Control. Jeskai control is probably a better colour combo for Walker decks, especially with Teferi and Jace available. RG landkill is better than RW landkill right now due to pace and BBE; the best thing to be in white for was Suppression Field and there are fewer fetches out there for it to hose (frankly I have a homebrew GW land restricting deck that has been performing better than the RW one that did very well for a couple of years).
In short, the RW prison feels a little obsolete. We have 4 drops galore, we have leylines etc., all the good stuff tools, but we are getting nothing new and don't have a reason not to play 3 colours beyond Blood Moon, which feels weak unless it comes down t2. That means to me that Bridge/SSG is probably the way to go.
I would love to be more positive, but what we really need is the meta to be different, and for WOTC to put more into answers, as their recent attempts are way below the mark.
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I seem to be running into Jeskai a lot lately, and attempting to cast 4- and 5-drop PWs into a wall of untapped blue is...challenging. Also i loathe having to see 8 or 12 Cryptic Command per game thanks to Snapcaster and other cards.
Thought - move 2 Rest in Peace from sb to mb, and replace them sb with 2 Defense Grid so i can get my locks and PWs into play. (I was running two Rituals in addition to the full set of Simians; that's where i'd fit the RIP's)
Other thought yet similar - move 2 Stonies from sb to mb and use those slots for the Grids, to have better game 1 matchups against Tron and KCI.
(Impact of Grid on my own play: i only run 2 instants in my mb - 2 Helixes - and none in the sb at current. So unless I moved more Helixes into the 75, i don't anticipate nonbo's.)
I seem to be running into Jeskai a lot lately, and attempting to cast 4- and 5-drop PWs into a wall of untapped blue is...challenging. Also i loathe having to see 8 or 12 Cryptic Command per game thanks to Snapcaster and other cards.
Thought - move 2 Rest in Peace from sb to mb, and replace them sb with 2 Defense Grid so i can get my locks and PWs into play. (I was running two Rituals in addition to the full set of Simians; that's where i'd fit the RIP's)
Other thought yet similar - move 2 Stonies from sb to mb and use those slots for the Grids, to have better game 1 matchups against Tron and KCI.
(Impact of Grid on my own play: i only run 2 instants in my mb - 2 Helixes - and none in the sb at current. So unless I moved more Helixes into the 75, i don't anticipate nonbo's.)
Thoughts?
You can also Boil on their end step, which forces countermagic. Grid is a great card, but your opponent is going to board in Wear // Tear against you anyways. Boil actually just wins you the game outright if it resolves.
being a 4-drop, i'm never sneaking Boil in on T1/T2, and by the time i'm in a position to have 4 mana, i either have other cards i'd like to play (nahiri) or he's able to access pretty much any countermagic in his deck, including cryptic command. i actually ran a singleton Boil in my sideboard for awhile, and found myself almost never bringing it in.
Just no really. The core set is a blow out pretty much. The odd option but nothing major.
Right now for control I would rather play Martyr proc, with its great Humans match, or if I was able to put the reps in, Lantern Control. Jeskai control is probably a better colour combo for Walker decks, especially with Teferi and Jace available. RG landkill is better than RW landkill right now due to pace and BBE; the best thing to be in white for was Suppression Field and there are fewer fetches out there for it to hose (frankly I have a homebrew GW land restricting deck that has been performing better than the RW one that did very well for a couple of years).
In short, the RW prison feels a little obsolete. We have 4 drops galore, we have leylines etc., all the good stuff tools, but we are getting nothing new and don't have a reason not to play 3 colours beyond Blood Moon, which feels weak unless it comes down t2. That means to me that Bridge/SSG is probably the way to go.
I would love to be more positive, but what we really need is the meta to be different, and for WOTC to put more into answers, as their recent attempts are way below the mark.
...and if you're in Bridge/SSG then you might want to be looking at the Goblin version for ideas, right?
i feel like i've lived through this a couple times before. Any time a RW prison deck rises up they either ban something or they change a rule to f(#$ it over. I wish they wouldn't do it like that but they clearly thought for a while that Modern players only wanted different flavors of aggro, combo and midrange. I can see that they're starting to allow control decks again but this particular type of control deck has apparently always been slightly verboten.
...and if you're in Bridge/SSG then you might want to be looking at the Goblin version for ideas, right?
i feel like i've lived through this a couple times before. Any time a RW prison deck rises up they either ban something or they change a rule to f(#$ it over. I wish they wouldn't do it like that but they clearly thought for a while that Modern players only wanted different flavors of aggro, combo and midrange. I can see that they're starting to allow control decks again but this particular type of control deck has apparently always been slightly verboten.
Mind elaborating on this, but what bannings are you talking about? I see a lot of stuff for storm and affinity, a few combo pieces that definitely were more popular in decks other than RW prison, fast mana, and really dangerous cards that threatened to homogenize or take over the format. Was it Stoneforge Mystic? Chrome Mox? Cloudpost? I'd also like to know what rule changes hurt this particular strategy.
...and if you're in Bridge/SSG then you might want to be looking at the Goblin version for ideas, right?
i feel like i've lived through this a couple times before. Any time a RW prison deck rises up they either ban something or they change a rule to f(#$ it over. I wish they wouldn't do it like that but they clearly thought for a while that Modern players only wanted different flavors of aggro, combo and midrange. I can see that they're starting to allow control decks again but this particular type of control deck has apparently always been slightly verboten.
Mind elaborating on this, but what bannings are you talking about? I see a lot of stuff for storm and affinity, a few combo pieces that definitely were more popular in decks other than RW prison, fast mana, and really dangerous cards that threatened to homogenize or take over the format. Was it Stoneforge Mystic? Chrome Mox? Cloudpost? I'd also like to know what rule changes hurt this particular strategy.
I'm going back 20 years. I am old. More recently it was stuff like leyline of sanctity and goblin dark dwellers.
I'm going back 20 years. I am old. More recently it was stuff like leyline of sanctity and goblin dark dwellers.
OIC. You mean planeswalker redirection and split card CMC, right? I would more describe prison decks as collateral damage, since neither of the original rules were all that great in the first place.
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Not great in our decks as a 1-drop, and not available for anyone not running red...makes me say hmmm nonetheless.
Alpine Moon
R
Enchantment
As Alpine Moon enters the battlefield, choose a nonbasic land card name. Lands your opponents control with the chosen name lose all land types and abilities, and they gain "tap: Add one mana of any color."
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
i agree. what we really need is an Ancient Stirrings banning...
Yeah... If something goes from Tron, I would vote for that. I feel like my tron matchup is improving slightly. Part of that is just getting more familiar with the deck, but I've also been running more pressure in the form of Kiki-Resto in the main and Goblin Rabblemaster in the side.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
I've been wanting to run a City of Brass mana-base for years but I never thought to play Pulse and painlands together. Thinking....
Keep life totals close. Make them want to dial up a big finish. Oh - deflecting palm.
Idea anyways...
Long long LONG time ago... Pain lands were not just one of the only fixers we had in RW, but I would often find I could and would randomly activate a pain land just to Shining Shoal the damage with a Furnace of Rath out... Food for thought. I’m talking 9th was still the active core set in standard “long ago” BTW. I’ve done similar things since then from time to time. Very very Midrange RW shells. All ideas will eventually push you away from the control shell that Sun & Moon exists in and more towards Aggro or more combo.
My best deck - my baby - was lockdown-ish but it also included Balance and Fireballs and even (sometimes) Viashino Sandstalkers.
I offer just one argument here - controlling somebody by the threat of mutual destruction is just another type of lockdown. You don't need to lock a person out of his cards to lock his deck down. It's enough just to make him feel like he can't do what his deck is designed to do. Trying to make a lockdown shell out of Modern cards is exhausting. It's a bad case of blue balls - always feeling like you're 9/10ths of the way there. I don't want to be a straight burn deck but the idea that I can just go "f___ it, taking damage is part of the plan..."
Well it has a certain appeal to me - especially right now. Of course I brew for a few days every new set. Usually doesn't amount to anything....
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
It would be nice to have another 3 drop PW, but I don't think he makes the cut. Gideon of the Trials is strictly better, and Nahiri is removal and a better wincon on top of filtering cards.
[Primer] Dralnu Control/Reanimator BU
[Primer] Jolrael, Empress of Beasts GG
Nath Stax BG | Borborygmos Enraged RG | Ladies of Magic UGW | Aminatou Control UWB | Enduring Ideal Zedruu UWR | Momir Vig Combo UG
Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG
The middle ability is the whole point, since the ult takes four turns to charge. He's a tribal support card with rummaging slapped on, plain and simple.
Right now for control I would rather play Martyr proc, with its great Humans match, or if I was able to put the reps in, Lantern Control. Jeskai control is probably a better colour combo for Walker decks, especially with Teferi and Jace available. RG landkill is better than RW landkill right now due to pace and BBE; the best thing to be in white for was Suppression Field and there are fewer fetches out there for it to hose (frankly I have a homebrew GW land restricting deck that has been performing better than the RW one that did very well for a couple of years).
In short, the RW prison feels a little obsolete. We have 4 drops galore, we have leylines etc., all the good stuff tools, but we are getting nothing new and don't have a reason not to play 3 colours beyond Blood Moon, which feels weak unless it comes down t2. That means to me that Bridge/SSG is probably the way to go.
I would love to be more positive, but what we really need is the meta to be different, and for WOTC to put more into answers, as their recent attempts are way below the mark.
I seem to be running into Jeskai a lot lately, and attempting to cast 4- and 5-drop PWs into a wall of untapped blue is...challenging. Also i loathe having to see 8 or 12 Cryptic Command per game thanks to Snapcaster and other cards.
Thought - move 2 Rest in Peace from sb to mb, and replace them sb with 2 Defense Grid so i can get my locks and PWs into play. (I was running two Rituals in addition to the full set of Simians; that's where i'd fit the RIP's)
Other thought yet similar - move 2 Stonies from sb to mb and use those slots for the Grids, to have better game 1 matchups against Tron and KCI.
(Impact of Grid on my own play: i only run 2 instants in my mb - 2 Helixes - and none in the sb at current. So unless I moved more Helixes into the 75, i don't anticipate nonbo's.)
Thoughts?
You can also Boil on their end step, which forces countermagic. Grid is a great card, but your opponent is going to board in Wear // Tear against you anyways. Boil actually just wins you the game outright if it resolves.
being a 4-drop, i'm never sneaking Boil in on T1/T2, and by the time i'm in a position to have 4 mana, i either have other cards i'd like to play (nahiri) or he's able to access pretty much any countermagic in his deck, including cryptic command. i actually ran a singleton Boil in my sideboard for awhile, and found myself almost never bringing it in.
...and if you're in Bridge/SSG then you might want to be looking at the Goblin version for ideas, right?
i feel like i've lived through this a couple times before. Any time a RW prison deck rises up they either ban something or they change a rule to f(#$ it over. I wish they wouldn't do it like that but they clearly thought for a while that Modern players only wanted different flavors of aggro, combo and midrange. I can see that they're starting to allow control decks again but this particular type of control deck has apparently always been slightly verboten.
Mind elaborating on this, but what bannings are you talking about? I see a lot of stuff for storm and affinity, a few combo pieces that definitely were more popular in decks other than RW prison, fast mana, and really dangerous cards that threatened to homogenize or take over the format. Was it Stoneforge Mystic? Chrome Mox? Cloudpost? I'd also like to know what rule changes hurt this particular strategy.
I'm going back 20 years. I am old. More recently it was stuff like leyline of sanctity and goblin dark dwellers.
OIC. You mean planeswalker redirection and split card CMC, right? I would more describe prison decks as collateral damage, since neither of the original rules were all that great in the first place.