Yep, I was reading the rules and editing my post while you were posting. Thanks anyway! I was focusing too much on the mana ability, but countering the Suspend trigger after the last counter is even better, as the card remains exiled.
My own thoughts: I don't know how I'm supposed to race fast decks like merfolk. I didn't really know what to do. Dismember didn't really help me much at all, echoing truth barely did. Was wishing I had supreme verdict in my hand for that last matchup. Love wurmcoil, didn't really like steelkite that much. Feel like platinum angel should be a SB card. Sided out talismans every time. Don't know what else. I will have to keep playing the deck more to find out.
On siding out Talisman, I think it's ok if you're on the draw vs fast decks, otherwise it appears to be too risky.
Yeah, it doesn't impress me too. I mentioned it as an alternative to people having trouble with Path to Exile. I'm really OK with Platinum Angel - it's not impressive on paper but it wins a lot of games.
We usually don't win via beatdown, so one more nonbasic that enters the game tapped really doesn't do much. We don't play enough control elements (removal, sweepers etc) to win the game via manland beats.
I chatted a bit with shoktroopa on MTGO between two DEs (he went 4-0 on both, beating Junk, Gruul, D&T, Affinity, Eggs, Scapeshift, RG Tron and Soul Sisters). Added his sideboard advice to the Primer, but here it is to save you some time:
-2 Thirst for Knowledge
-2 Remand (on the draw)
-1 Mindslaver
Quote from shoktroopa »
You can take out a titan too if you want but I like the option of crushing their mana if they are short
Bring in pierce v more spell friendly aggro
Just try to curve out v the aggro. Repeals, Condescend, do whatever to slow em down
vs Pod
+4 Dismember
+2 Spell Pierce (on the draw)
+2 Squelch
It's in there to help v Tron, cycles v Scapeshift (over useless Repeals) and for infect surprisingly
It's just a random speed bump v some decks that cantrips.
Chalice is only good on the play so u bring it in 50% on games 2 or 3.
Maximize every card. That's what it's about.
Your board has to be cards that increase the bad matchups every time we bring them in
Same thing with Ratchet Bomb and EE
Useless on the draw
If sundering Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, and Platinum Angel are primary win conditions all predicated on beating down your opponent in big chunks then why not try and steal some of it early to shorten the late game clock. Also as far as coming into play tapped in my view it doesnt hinder this deck as much as it does others as you dont have as many critical turn one plays. Late game if you have the urzatron lands it does effect your mana at all. Faerie conclave acts as a mana sink, it has evasion, and can be used early game against aggro to chump while assembling the urzatrons to play wurmcoil. It is a non-basic making it suseptable to LD, but it produces blue mana so it doesnt take away from blue sources in the deck. And finally it is a alternate win condition that either finishes what the others start in the face of removal or just helps you get there when the deck fails to find a win condition fast enough.
@lucashungaro & Shoktroopa: Thanks to the both of you,
@Luchas for taking the time to post troopa's answers and to troopa for answering
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From Supernatural:
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
Is this deck still decent on MTGO? I'm thinking of making it so I can play modern more often than just at FNM. I also hear mono blue Tron is a bit more friendly on the wallet.
Aaaaand... we have a name! Reasoning: that's how the creator of the deck (shoktroopa on MTGO) affectionately calls it. It fits well with the theme, as all the wincons are "machines".
In other news, I tested 4 Chalice of the Void on the SB and got it on 1 vs Goblins (still lost) and Soul Sisters (won 1, lost 1). It should be better vs Burn and Infect, but has been unimpressive 'til now.
Chalice is good, especially if you can cast in on T2 on the play, but I'm leaning towards shoktroopa's side here (not good enough).
The third Wurmcoil is actually pretty important. I don't have one, so I kept a Sundering Titan in after SB in two games vs aggro yesterday, cast the Titan in both games and lost 'cause I had no life gain and just one big body couldn't hold all the attackers. I guess Battlesphere is better vs PtE midrange decks, but way worse vs aggro where it'll just chump block with the tokens for a turn (not bad, but not what you want from a wincon).
the Myr is great. I have it maindeck and it's indeed, at worse, the card described above (when pathed).
also, it's a 2-turn clock vs. whatever non-creature deck that has no path to handle it.
it also immediatly shuts down the table vs. aggro, which is a nice effect. gaining one turn for another threat while they spend their elimination on the myr is excellent.
What I meant is that you'll most likely be forced into chump blocks with the tokens when your opponent has 5 guys beating you and you're low on life. That's what happens to me when I play Sundering Titan vs aggro - I can block and kill one guy, but all the others are enough to kill me given it's probably mid-game already. I agree it's a good card, but not the one I need in these matchups anyway.
I loved playing with the deck. I just played it on the tournament pratice room and defeat Burn, Jund Midrange, UWR draw - go, the mirror match and a reanimator deck. I lost to Storm.
I need to start playing some 2 - man with it but I am afraid of losing my precious tickets and I don't have enough time to play a 8-man or daily. Right now I am just playing it for fun.
I made a change, playing a Aeon Chronicler instead of the 4th Thirst ( I thought it was pretty good against the midrange/control decks and I love the card ). I am trying to find something for the Platinum Angel's place, because in very few matches I wanted it in play.
I made a change, playing a Aeon Chronicler instead of the 4th Thirst ( I thought it was pretty good against the midrange/control decks and I love the card ). I am trying to find something for the Platinum Angel's place, because in very few matches I wanted it in play.
I tried this and found it to be way to "win more" for me and terrible when I was losing
Platinum Angel is one of the best cards vs Aggro, they have to deal with it or you stabilize, but there are a variety of other options if you feel it is unnecessary for your Meta (on MTGO I recommend it though)
On Myr Battlesphere: Weaker to Boardwipes, but insane with Trading Post, recommend running if you are running Trading Post, but still Wurmcoil does the job better most of the time
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
Well I'm not really saying Sphere is better than Wurmcoil but seeing that 40% of the decks run PtE I think Sphere is worth a slot
I did actually not see nearly as many Supremes, then again PtE can be counteres, Verdict cannot (although Condescend is not ideal against a 1cmc spell).
I usually will keep some sort of counter back-up if I suspect Path
Never said Myr is bad just feels like it wants Trading Post (then again everything wants more Trading Post)
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Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
I loved playing with the deck. I just played it on the tournament pratice room and defeat Burn, Jund Midrange, UWR draw - go, the mirror match and a reanimator deck. I lost to Storm.
I need to start playing some 2 - man with it but I am afraid of losing my precious tickets and I don't have enough time to play a 8-man or daily. Right now I am just playing it for fun.
I made a change, playing a Aeon Chronicler instead of the 4th Thirst ( I thought it was pretty good against the midrange/control decks and I love the card ). I am trying to find something for the Platinum Angel's place, because in very few matches I wanted it in play.
Do not drop Angel. Move it to the SB if you will, but it's the card that gives us a good chance vs Affinity, Infect and even Burn.
I was also skeptical about Angel at first but lately she's been an all star for me with all of the Burn/RDW running around. Burn has to use 2 spells to kill it, which gives us time to stabilize with Wurmcoils or Mindslavers.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
The angel has worked out well for me too. I've stolen quite a few games with it against aggro decks, especially ones with limited removal like soul sisters. The fact that it doesn't die to lightning bolt is simply amazing, makes it incredibly hard for rdw to kill it.
Why is nobody playing Platinum Emperion over Platinum Angel? I find it quite superior or atleast wroth some testing.
Emperion Upsides
1-Unlike angel, emperion really stabilize and "stops" your oponent when you play it. If you play angel vs agro or combo, they will just put you into -x and win the game whenever they find an answer, while if you play emperion they will need to wait until they find an answer in the first place for even start atacking or comboing you.
2-Emperion works miles better than angel with academy ruins, if they kill your angel your probably already dead, while if you have emperion+ruins, your oponent will be forced to kill the emperion and all your lifes on the same turn, or you will just get it back in your turn and stop them again.
3-Being a 8/8 have some advantages when lots of your oponents are using bolts to deal with your angel/emperion. Angel is killable with dismembee, bolt/helix+lavamancer, 2xbolt/helix, double redcap activation and lots other things, while emperion is way harder to deal with, only fearing pacts mainly.
4-Emperion can easily act as a finisher too, can block almost anything and can atack into nearly anything too.
Enperion Downsides
1-It cost 1 more colorless mana than angel, but we are playing tron and talismans, the diference btw 7 and 8 shouldnt be a problem most times.
2-Emperion negates lifelink from wurmcoils, while this may sound very bad, i dont think it is in practice. For example if you play an angel vs agro they will atack you into around -5/-10 and then ideally you will play wurmcoil and start going up again, while with emperion you will be stuck at leets say 9-14 life and then not gaining anything if you manage to play wurmcoil and use it. Furthermore if the destroy your emperion/angel during this point you will be in a very better position with the enperion plan. This is of course vs agro, vs combo they will just put you at -8473838 if you play angel, so lifelink wont do much here anyway.
3-Emperion doesnt fly, but really you shouldnt be blocking with angel anyway and offensively wise a 8/8 will be most times greater than 4/4 flyer.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
-Jaya Ballard, task mage
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On siding out Talisman, I think it's ok if you're on the draw vs fast decks, otherwise it appears to be too risky.
We usually don't win via beatdown, so one more nonbasic that enters the game tapped really doesn't do much. We don't play enough control elements (removal, sweepers etc) to win the game via manland beats.
I chatted a bit with shoktroopa on MTGO between two DEs (he went 4-0 on both, beating Junk, Gruul, D&T, Affinity, Eggs, Scapeshift, RG Tron and Soul Sisters). Added his sideboard advice to the Primer, but here it is to save you some time:
Given the following SB:
vs Aggro (Gruul, Zoo, Goblins, Burn etc)
+4 Dismember
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
-2 Thirst for Knowledge
-2 Remand (on the draw)
-1 Mindslaver
vs Pod
+4 Dismember
+2 Spell Pierce (on the draw)
+2 Squelch
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Mindslaver
-2 Solemn Simulacrum
-2 Talisman
If bringing in Spell Pierce:
-1 Platinum Angel
-1 Treasure Mage
vs Eggs
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Squelch
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Titan
-2 Solemn Simulacrum
vs Scapeshift
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Squelch
+2 Spreading Seas
-1 Solemn Simulacrum
-1 Oblivion Stone
-3 Repeal
-1 Wurmcoil Engine
vs RG Tron
+2 Spell Pierce
+2 Squelch
+2 Spreading Seas
-1 Sundering Titan
-1 Platinum Angel
-2 Solemn Simulacrum
-1 Repeal
-1 Talisman
vs Soul Sisters
+4 Dismember
+1 Wurmcoil Engine
-1 Thirst for Knowledge
-1 Mindslaver
-1 Sundering Titan
-2 Remand
On Spreading Seas:
On Chalice of the Void:
@Luchas for taking the time to post troopa's answers and to troopa for answering
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
In other news, I tested 4 Chalice of the Void on the SB and got it on 1 vs Goblins (still lost) and Soul Sisters (won 1, lost 1). It should be better vs Burn and Infect, but has been unimpressive 'til now.
The third Wurmcoil is actually pretty important. I don't have one, so I kept a Sundering Titan in after SB in two games vs aggro yesterday, cast the Titan in both games and lost 'cause I had no life gain and just one big body couldn't hold all the attackers. I guess Battlesphere is better vs PtE midrange decks, but way worse vs aggro where it'll just chump block with the tokens for a turn (not bad, but not what you want from a wincon).
also, it's a 2-turn clock vs. whatever non-creature deck that has no path to handle it.
it also immediatly shuts down the table vs. aggro, which is a nice effect. gaining one turn for another threat while they spend their elimination on the myr is excellent.
I built this deck in paper and sold it with Contagion Engine in the sideboard, but never actually used it. I think I will try it on MODO.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
I need to start playing some 2 - man with it but I am afraid of losing my precious tickets and I don't have enough time to play a 8-man or daily. Right now I am just playing it for fun.
I made a change, playing a Aeon Chronicler instead of the 4th Thirst ( I thought it was pretty good against the midrange/control decks and I love the card ). I am trying to find something for the Platinum Angel's place, because in very few matches I wanted it in play.
I tried this and found it to be way to "win more" for me and terrible when I was losing
Platinum Angel is one of the best cards vs Aggro, they have to deal with it or you stabilize, but there are a variety of other options if you feel it is unnecessary for your Meta (on MTGO I recommend it though)
On Myr Battlesphere: Weaker to Boardwipes, but insane with Trading Post, recommend running if you are running Trading Post, but still Wurmcoil does the job better most of the time
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
I usually will keep some sort of counter back-up if I suspect Path
Never said Myr is bad just feels like it wants Trading Post (then again everything wants more Trading Post)
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Do not drop Angel. Move it to the SB if you will, but it's the card that gives us a good chance vs Affinity, Infect and even Burn.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Emperion Upsides
1-Unlike angel, emperion really stabilize and "stops" your oponent when you play it. If you play angel vs agro or combo, they will just put you into -x and win the game whenever they find an answer, while if you play emperion they will need to wait until they find an answer in the first place for even start atacking or comboing you.
2-Emperion works miles better than angel with academy ruins, if they kill your angel your probably already dead, while if you have emperion+ruins, your oponent will be forced to kill the emperion and all your lifes on the same turn, or you will just get it back in your turn and stop them again.
3-Being a 8/8 have some advantages when lots of your oponents are using bolts to deal with your angel/emperion. Angel is killable with dismembee, bolt/helix+lavamancer, 2xbolt/helix, double redcap activation and lots other things, while emperion is way harder to deal with, only fearing pacts mainly.
4-Emperion can easily act as a finisher too, can block almost anything and can atack into nearly anything too.
Enperion Downsides
1-It cost 1 more colorless mana than angel, but we are playing tron and talismans, the diference btw 7 and 8 shouldnt be a problem most times.
2-Emperion negates lifelink from wurmcoils, while this may sound very bad, i dont think it is in practice. For example if you play an angel vs agro they will atack you into around -5/-10 and then ideally you will play wurmcoil and start going up again, while with emperion you will be stuck at leets say 9-14 life and then not gaining anything if you manage to play wurmcoil and use it. Furthermore if the destroy your emperion/angel during this point you will be in a very better position with the enperion plan. This is of course vs agro, vs combo they will just put you at -8473838 if you play angel, so lifelink wont do much here anyway.
3-Emperion doesnt fly, but really you shouldnt be blocking with angel anyway and offensively wise a 8/8 will be most times greater than 4/4 flyer.
-Jaya Ballard, task mage