MTG Salvation

I find Dredge not to be very favourable.

The Tormod‘s/Academy Ruins loop seems like a strong move. I guess, you were just unlucky not finding anything in time to block the beats.
My strategy would be to stall them (a timely Rift overload can work wonders) and try to find my Wurmcoils or Ugin before they kill me...

Disrupting Shoal is either a bad counterspell or a 2-for-1 against us. I do not know why you want to play it.

@mrdevn


That sounds like a meta ripe for U-Tron to be honest as most of what you listed are good MUs. For a little boost against tokens tho I think you'd do well replacing fabricate with trinket mage and jamming an engineered explosives in there. Also, chalice is pretty strong against BGx decks and stopping discard. If they pick off chalice turn 0 with IoK/thoughtsieze that's fine because we have recursion and we're likely to just bury them in card advantage from what they didn't take instead.

Quote from pierakor »

Disrupting Shoal is either a bad counterspell or a 2-for-1 against us. I do not know why you want to play it.

But I‘d gladly get 2-for-1‘d if it means countering a game breaking spell?

It just sometimes feels like we could use another counterspell.

Sure but Disupting Shoal is too conditional for that. Maybe try Commandeer or Pact of Negation.

Or you know a good unconditional counterspell that can 2-for-1 your opponent like Summary Dismissal

Quote from nhyx3 »

how do you 2for1 with summary dismissal?

By hitting a Remand that targets a Grapeshot (or any other situation where your opponent has two spells on the stack)
Against Shattering Spree, Gigadrowse
When your opponent goes all in on Empty the Warrens (Ritual, Ritual, Ritual, Empty)
When your opponent puts several abilities on the stack like double Tectonic Edge
Against on cast triggers like Ulamog, Worldbreaker, Sanctum of Ugin, Emrakul

Hi!! I'm planning on buying the core cards of the deck to start playing it at small tournaments to try it out, but I'm starting kind of in a budget, so no Ugin and no Chalices. I was thinking of going with something along the lines of:



Do you think this can do fine? Will I suffer because of the lack of chalices to the point of frustration? At the same time, I saw some shoktroopa builds with as little as 1 Chalice in the 75.

I'd also appreciate some advice on how to build the sideboard. I imagine that I'm going to need some extra help against some matchups where chalice is good.

Thanks!!

Quote from bradstone »

@mrdevn

Quote from mrdevn »

My big problem with chalice has been that without the usual good matchups for it being common I often feel like it just doesn't accomplish that much. Against discard decks especially I find that vs discard heavy hands it usually just gets taken first, and otherwise my opponent are just playing cards that don't get hit by chalice on 1 and by turn 3/4 I would rather be doing other things besides dropping chalice on 2. My meta seems to favor traditional BGx, eldrazi, and other random grindy decks like fae and tokens, with a smattering of control and combo. As metas go it's a pretty favorable one, I just can't seem to shake the feeling that I'm playing too many cards that aren't impactful enough against the decks I see often. I really like the idea of playing spell pierce, and might throw an extra gemstone back in my board.

I've been really resistant to playing leylines because I don't like the idea of having a card in my deck that's unstable after t1. I know there's been other discussion of it on here before. If I am playing against a ton of discard is it worth it?

My playstyle tends to be to play like a draw go control deck first, then tron. Should I be trying to force early tron more against the kinds of decks I'm seeing? I'm also a fan of keeping land heavy hands, which I could see being a source of my discard woes.

My current list is:

listMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands 1 Academy Ruins 1 Gemstone Caverns 1 Ghost Quarter 9 Island 4 Urza's Mine 4 Urza's Power Plant 4 Urza's Mine Creatures 1 Platinum Angel 1 Snapcaster Mage 1 Solemn Simulacrum 1 Torrential Gearhulk 1 Treasure Mage 1 Walking Ballista 1 Wurmcoil Engine	Planeswalkers 1 Ugin the Spirit Dragon Spells 4 Condescend 1 Cyclonic Rift 4 Remand 3 Repeal 1 Supreme Will 4 Thirst for Knowledge 1 Fabricate Artifacts 2 Chalice of the Void 4 Expedition Map 2 Mindslaver 1 Oblivion Stone 1 Talisman of Dominance	Sideboard: 2 Chalice of the Void 3 Dismember 1 Dispel 2 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Negate 2 Spatial Contortion 3 Spreading Seas 1 Wurmcoil Engine

I also briefly flirted with Opt, but was underwhelmed.
Thank you so much for your help!

That sounds like a meta ripe for U-Tron to be honest as most of what you listed are good MUs. For a little boost against tokens tho I think you'd do well replacing fabricate with trinket mage and jamming an engineered explosives in there. Also, chalice is pretty strong against BGx decks and stopping discard. If they pick off chalice turn 0 with IoK/thoughtsieze that's fine because we have recursion and we're likely to just bury them in card advantage from what they didn't take instead.

It definitely is a very nice meta for the deck - I just feel like I should be able to optimize my deck for it a bit better. You may have a point about chalice, though. I'll try to reevaluate how effective it is and how I value it next time I play. EE also could be a good idea - it would help against the occasional random aggro decks that pop up as well. Is it worth playing without adding River of Tears/extra talismans to make sunburst 2 more likely?

1 Walking Ballista xx 15.81
2 Snapcaster Mage 1u 105.42
1 Treasure Mage 2u 0.39
1 Solemn Simulacrum 4 4.38
1 Wurmcoil Engine 6 15.48
1 Platinum Angel 7 4.35
1 Sundering Titan 8 4.25
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 8 31.43
Spells (16)
3 Condescend xu 1.47
2 Repeal xu 0.20
1 Spell Snare u 5.65
1 Cyclonic Rift 1u 5.97
1 Merchant Scroll 1u 4.27
2 Remand 1u 9.50
1 Dismember 1bpbp 2.50
4 Thirst for Knowledge 2u 5.72
1 Gifts Ungiven 3u 5.74
Artifacts (12)
1 Chalice of the Void xx 76.25
1 Engineered Explosives x 50.87
4 Expedition Map 1 10.16
1 Talisman of Dominance 2 1.24
1 Talisman of Progress 2 3.20
1 Crucible of Worlds 3 62.84
1 Oblivion Stone 3 9.99
2 Mindslaver 6 8.56
Lands (23)
1 Academy Ruins 20.26
1 Field of Ruin 0.75
4 Island 0.00
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds 18.95
1 River of Tears 4.70
2 Snow-Covered Island 2.86
1 Tolaria West 3.49
4 Urza's Mine 5.12
4 Urza's Power Plant 5.00
4 Urza's Tower 5.20
Sideboard (15)
1 Chalice of the Void xx 76.25
1 Engineered Explosives x 50.87
1 Tectonic Edge 1.70
1 Condescend xu 0.49
1 Dispel u 0.18
1 Relic of Progenitus 1 2.99
1 Spell Pierce u 0.22
1 Surgical Extraction bp 19.99
1 Hurkyl's Recall 1u 3.40
1 Negate 1u 0.14
2 Spatial Contortion 1c 0.44
2 Dismember 1bpbp 5.00
1 Aetherize 3u 0.18

Latest list from Shoktroopa, crazy stuff

C'mon, His list is not nothing new or powerful. He often picks up single gifts ungiven and some package with it... I think he's brewing with some new ideas (field of ruin seems to be nice alternative to quarter/edge in Our deck). I don't like cutting the 24nd land though. IMO with tolaria west 24 land count is a minimum (even with 2 talismans).

I like that it replaces itself with an island. Mana fixes us and gets rid of a troublesome land, feels like a win to me. I only run tec edge, might try switching it out. It seems comparable in power and you can use it at around the same time.

I'm runinng 1 ghost quarter and 1 field at the moment (I've got bunch eldrazi tron decks right there). Field is very good here - it's designed exacly for Our deck the feching island part is really important sometimes.
2 Field of ruins can be a bit greedy (quarter is just faster when opposite tron want to get tron online on turn 3).

Quote from Dassul »

I'm runinng 1 ghost quarter and 1 field at the moment (I've got bunch eldrazi tron decks right there). Field is very good here - it's designed exacly for Our deck the feching island part is really important sometimes.
2 Field of ruins can be a bit greedy (quarter is just faster when opposite tron want to get tron online on turn 3).

I'm currently on 2 Field of Ruin, and it doesn't feel greedy at all. I've found it actually feels like the less greedy choice. Mainly because it functions as another blue source far better than Ghost Quarter. I don't quite buy the argument versus turn 3 tron, since most in most situations like that you'll have access to a counterspell to stop the first big spell.

The argument with ghost quarter and turn 3 tron is real unfortunately - countering with remand is poor and condescend can be just too slow (especially on draw). But in any other situations field of ruin seems to be better (infect isn't a deck anymore).
So, You can be right Agnara - Field of ruin can be a perfect ponzaland for Us.
Can You share testing results with this land Guys?

Anyone else on the fence about tolaria west? When you use it it's great, the rest of the time I either want the mana now or I need the 2U for something else... Thoughts?

I just got a copy of field of ruin to try.

For me, it's great uncounterable tutor and a blue source that dodge choke when needed.
I ran tolaria for a long time (even without ballista's) and it's very solid slot for a land IMO. Since printing of walking ballista it can even fech a finisher on the spot (expedition map > tolaria > ballista which is just wonderful). Ofc sometimes it's clunky but we play a bunch of clunky cards right there
But If You don't run any of 0 CMC artifacts in Your list, playing tolaria west only to fech lands is ofc bad decision.

So just a couple hours ago I competed at a local with some success.
Went 3-1 with this list:


Here were my MUs

Round 1 - Elves
I win game one with an early chalice on 1. Game two I land a chalice on 1 t2 on the draw, into Angel. Has Reclamation Sage for my angel and attacks for game. I get early chalice for a 3rd time, but lose to the reach of his Shaman of the Pack. lost 1-2

Record: 0-1

Round 2 - Bant Spirits
I win game one by bouncing his board t4 with rift and counter all his threats till I had the kill. Game 2 gain early advantage with a gemstone caverns and end up t3 troning him for win with ballista. won 2-0

Record: 1-1

Round 3 - Jund
He keeps a hand with no hand disruption, so I just played like tron usually does while he was beating in with goyf till I won with wurmcoil. Game 2 I miss a land 2 lands and he wins with goyf and chandra, torch of defiance. Game 3 I counter all his stuff, clean up the GY of ancient grudges into mindslaver lock for win. won 2-1

Record: 2-1

Round 4 - Grixis DS
I knew his deck like the back of my hand so game 1 I just counter/bounce everything that matters and won with sundering titan. Game two I he inquisition'd me to see my hand full of draw and counters, and instead of playing stuff decided to keep beating in with his t2 tasigur and not playing anyting. I ended up drawing into pure gas and mindslaver him for win. won 2-0

Record: 3-1

Conclusion:
I was overall impressed with my deck's performance and found chalice to be amazing. I've also found sundering titan to be amazing and don't get why many lists are cutting him. Buried ruin was great, as there are many times when I need an artifact in my yard to win, such as against spirits, where I used it to get back ballista and pop him in the face with it for game. Solemn was amazing, especially against elves and jund. The only card in the SB I was disappointed with was the summary dismissal, which I may be switching out for a TKS.

It'd be appreciated if y'all could let me know what you think of my list, and what could be improved in it.

I'm working on a UB version of the deck to run a few fatal pushes in the MB. The decks worst MU's are fast aggro - burn, affinity, etc. - and I think getting stronger and cheaper interaction with the board helps the deck a lot. The downside is I'm running out of space in the MB thanks to the extra cards. How critical do people consider the Platinum Angel these days? Does it win a lot of games, or does it hit the SB most matches?

Loving that troopa list, it's practically an identical mainboard to what I've been running.

People all have different opinions on platinum angel. Personally for me, I cut it recently for a second Ugin. Ugin almost always wins you the game when he lands on the board and I'd just rather be proactive than playing angel and praying nothing happens to it.

I put Angel in the SB. It's rare that i'm happy to see her.

I want to run Trinket but the idea of cutting out out 1 of my 2 Treasure Mages feels wrong to me. 2 Treasure Mage and 1 Trinket? Is that too many bodies to be tapping for on my turn?