so... what is the verdict on new karn? thinking of getting him, is he a must in your opinion? looks like he's played in most lists. is the strategy to just have more mana rocks to pump out stronger tokens and get him out earlier?
There is kinda two distinct styles of deck going in this group. The slightly lower to the ground more removal heavy and the more artifact ramp + karn version. No doubt new Karn is strong. Having all the extra artifacts makes him playable for the ultimate quicker. I'm liking the other version currently. I only play in paper and the bloody, the person I stole the deck list from also only plays in paper. I think it depends on how you want to play and the meta. The more controlly removal one is better in my meta as I'm the only control deck besides 8 rack.
He's fantastic if he's built around a little like you said, but he is by no means necessary. Depends what you want in that 4-drop slot. New Karn ends the game if he goes unchecked against midrange and control, but in some metas something like Thought-Knot Seer would be much more useful. Personally, I love the 3-rock, 1-2 New Karn builds and I'm gonna keep playing him but for example my last FNM was Burn, Bogles, Burn, Ad Nauseum, Drop Rnd 5 and I wished he was literally any other card in those matchups.
Hello, I'm a long time lurker but a lazy writer! I'm asking for your help; in my current meta there is a lot of humans and taxes I can't seem to find a good solution against both of them, I'm lacking EE btw. I tend to build my deck like pierakor style, with torrential - commit memory and gifts ungiven. How do you sideboard against humans and taxes? thanks! and keep the u-tron strong! I'll try to post some good results, In the last 4 months I went 1st in 5 tournament with this deck, I love it.
humans.. in lots of removal. out counter spells. i'm playing 4 dismember main and 4 contortion side. I also play 3 tks and bring those in and bring out more counterspells and mind slaver. depends on the flavor of taxes on how you side board. mono W, mono W eldrazi or BW eldrazi and taxes definitely matters. most of the time more creature removal is the way to go. counter spells are meh because they are an aether vial deck. However they could bring in stony silence and side out vials. Personally I think stony silence is a bad card to bring in against us as it hits 2-3 things in my list. a little better agianst the talisman style.
This is my opinion so hopefully you get extra feed back too. Especially on the taxes part.
He's fantastic if he's built around a little like you said, but he is by no means necessary. Depends what you want in that 4-drop slot. New Karn ends the game if he goes unchecked against midrange and control, but in some metas something like Thought-Knot Seer would be much more useful. Personally, I love the 3-rock, 1-2 New Karn builds and I'm gonna keep playing him but for example my last FNM was Burn, Bogles, Burn, Ad Nauseum, Drop Rnd 5 and I wished he was literally any other card in those matchups.
I love looking at the new Karn lists on paper but in reality we already crush midrange and have strong game against control. I'm skeptical it's the direction I want to go
That new alpine moon card looks ??? against us. Enchantment R. As Alpine Moon enters the battlefield, choose a nonbasic land card name. Lands your opponents control with the chosen name lose all land types and abilities, and they gain "T: Add one mana of any color." I think our other urza lands still tap for tron mana so we good =p No doubt people will try it. Idk if its good but they will try it.
I love looking at the new Karn lists on paper but in reality we already crush midrange and have strong game against control. I'm skeptical it's the direction I want to go
This is my thought too. Does Karn really help the deck with any problems the deck faces?
That new alpine moon card looks ??? against us. Enchantment R. As Alpine Moon enters the battlefield, choose a nonbasic land card name. Lands your opponents control with the chosen name lose all land types and abilities, and they gain "T: Add one mana of any color." I think our other urza lands still tap for tron mana so we good =p No doubt people will try it. Idk if its good but they will try it.
You lose the one cards land type, you wont be able to have an 'Urza's Tower' for example if that is what is named as its type is lost.
Name and type are different. Hallowed fountain is a name. Island plains is it's type. I think it does actually get us, reading the rules it looks like the urza lands look at type, not name and they are all their own type. Shiiiit.
Sounds like fun to try a one of at least of little karn. One of the things i love with u tron is you can have so many pet cards. i'm a little sceptical at putting in a tons of mana rocks though just because you play 1 little karn? what else are they good for? i mean of course they ramp but mostly you don't want to tap out for that and would you really play them if you didn't play karn? if you gonna commit to mana rocks with 3 of them, feels way to little to only play 1 karn?
another random question. What have peoples experience been with tolaria west? I really don't want to play tap lands. maybe change a trinket mage for tolaria and play 25 lands though?
that's a really good point with tolaria and map. i'm gonna try a one of of the talisman and see how it feels : )
tried the deck again yesterday without my new improvements (will have them next week!) and it went soso. did a lot of misplays as i was not used to the deck (have been playing mardu pyro for awhile now). really feels i have game against most decks though if i just don't do any stupid misplays like yesterday : p
how should the matchup generally go against mill? i lost yesterday but felt pretty close some games. against control (this time grixis), do you sideboard out ugin? i see him mostly as an 8 mana bolt and its quite easy for them to just bounce with cryptic. would you keep him against uw control though? his minus should be good against their spreading seas and detention spheres.
edit: also, same question about oblivion stone. feels soso in the matchups but maybe it's okay?
that's some really good points, thanks. i have the feeling people think mindslaver is one of the best cards against control. is it though? if we remove our maps, get screwed on our mana through seas and ruins and stony silence for activation. will we really be able to cast it and slaver? maybe slaver but it's a long way to a full lock at least. good point about dismembers also! would instantly board them out otherwise.
Hello, I'm a long time lurker but a lazy writer! I'm asking for your help; in my current meta there is a lot of humans and taxes I can't seem to find a good solution against both of them, I'm lacking EE btw. I tend to build my deck like pierakor style, with torrential - commit memory and gifts ungiven. How do you sideboard against humans and taxes? thanks! and keep the u-tron strong! I'll try to post some good results, In the last 4 months I went 1st in 5 tournament with this deck, I love it.
torpor orb for humans comes to mind.
I don’t have thought-knot seer, but seems like a good body and some disruption against taxes.
I have one chalice and want more, but they are so expensive. There’s also EE. Also, expensive. Is it better to have 2 chalice or 1/1 split? Is there any point in more than 2 chalices?
Second, with so many ways to disrupt tron is there ever a world where expedition map isn’t the card to be playing? Is there any u tron decks that function without the maps?
I was wondering about the sideboard cards I see on MTG goldfish lists. Specifically two spreading seas,ghost quarter, and crucible. What match are these for exactly? Crucible is dicey as we dont put lands in the yard on our own so no guaranteed value (vs a fetch deck like gifts Tron) so do I want it vs anyone on field of ruin or fulminator or just ponza? Why do I have a GQ in the board? To combo w my one of crucible vs Tron?
And the two spreading seas I really don't get. Mainland's aren't particularly troublesome. Are they for Tron as well? Caverns? (Seems slow vs cavern)
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
My question is about Gifts Ungiven.
How viable is it, when I do not have Crucible & EE pre-board? Quite a lot of times I find myself casting Gifts for the sake of casting, but the advantage felt is often not so big.
Crucible definitely isn’t necessary with Gifts. I run an EE, but it’s not needed for gifts to be good.
The main use for gifts in my experience is to pull 4 of our wincons out of our deck, and put them in either our hand or our graveyard (and we can put them into our hand through Academy Ruins eventually). We can also use it for a lot of other things. Need a board wipe? Fetch O-Stone/Ugin/Cyc Rift/something else (Snapcaster? EE? Mindslaver?) Need to get rid of a creature for a little? Dismember/Repeal/Cyc Rift/something else. Need a counter? Condescend/Supreme Will/Remand/Snappy. Countering something with Gifts isn’t the most practical, but it can be done. Basically, gifts can get us whatever effect we want at instant speed, which is really good.
I was wondering about the sideboard cards I see on MTG goldfish lists. Specifically two spreading seas,ghost quarter, and crucible. What match are these for exactly? Crucible is dicey as we dont put lands in the yard on our own so no guaranteed value (vs a fetch deck like gifts Tron) so do I want it vs anyone on field of ruin or fulminator or just ponza? Why do I have a GQ in the board? To combo w my one of crucible vs Tron?
And the two spreading seas I really don't get. Mainland's aren't particularly troublesome. Are they for Tron as well? Caverns? (Seems slow vs cavern)
Ghost quarter comes in against tron, cavern decks, and control decks as an extra land. Keep in mind that our 4 expedition maps can fetch GQ, which makes it a really good 1-of in matchups where it matters. This also helps crucible’s effectiveness. Crucible comes in against ponza and control, especially the 4 FoR variants. We eventually get a decent amount of lands in the grave through our GQ/FoR/Tec Edge and through Thirsts, so it’s not just dead on its own.
I recently cut my spreading seas, and haven’t missed them. They only really shine against tron. Otherwise they’re not worth bringing in a lot of the time.
I was running with 1 Field of Ruin main and 1 Ghost Quarter side for a while, but I swapped the FoR for a Tec Edge and have been liking it a lot. At least against control, Tec Edge is a lot better, since our mana advantage is our biggest strength and pseudo-Wastelanding maintains that advantage. Against aggro... FoR is better, but if you're spending your t3 to blow up a land, you're probably not in the best spot anyways. Overall, the somewhat poor blue fixing isn't worth it for me, but I'd love to hear other opinions.
Also, I've seen some lists with FoR in the side instead of GQ. What's the logic behind that? It seems to me like in the matchups where LD is relevant, you'd rather have GQ than FoR.
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This is my opinion so hopefully you get extra feed back too. Especially on the taxes part.
I love looking at the new Karn lists on paper but in reality we already crush midrange and have strong game against control. I'm skeptical it's the direction I want to go
Retired
Legacy:
GRUB Lands
Modern:
U Tron
RG Tron
RG Ponza
This is my thought too. Does Karn really help the deck with any problems the deck faces?
You lose the one cards land type, you wont be able to have an 'Urza's Tower' for example if that is what is named as its type is lost.
EDIT: Isnt that how it works???
Spirits
another random question. What have peoples experience been with tolaria west? I really don't want to play tap lands. maybe change a trinket mage for tolaria and play 25 lands though?
tried the deck again yesterday without my new improvements (will have them next week!) and it went soso. did a lot of misplays as i was not used to the deck (have been playing mardu pyro for awhile now). really feels i have game against most decks though if i just don't do any stupid misplays like yesterday : p
how should the matchup generally go against mill? i lost yesterday but felt pretty close some games. against control (this time grixis), do you sideboard out ugin? i see him mostly as an 8 mana bolt and its quite easy for them to just bounce with cryptic. would you keep him against uw control though? his minus should be good against their spreading seas and detention spheres.
edit: also, same question about oblivion stone. feels soso in the matchups but maybe it's okay?
torpor orb for humans comes to mind.
I don’t have thought-knot seer, but seems like a good body and some disruption against taxes.
what is the best defense against fast decks? chalice of the void??
I have one chalice and want more, but they are so expensive. There’s also EE. Also, expensive. Is it better to have 2 chalice or 1/1 split? Is there any point in more than 2 chalices?
Second, with so many ways to disrupt tron is there ever a world where expedition map isn’t the card to be playing? Is there any u tron decks that function without the maps?
And the two spreading seas I really don't get. Mainland's aren't particularly troublesome. Are they for Tron as well? Caverns? (Seems slow vs cavern)
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
Crucible definitely isn’t necessary with Gifts. I run an EE, but it’s not needed for gifts to be good.
The main use for gifts in my experience is to pull 4 of our wincons out of our deck, and put them in either our hand or our graveyard (and we can put them into our hand through Academy Ruins eventually). We can also use it for a lot of other things. Need a board wipe? Fetch O-Stone/Ugin/Cyc Rift/something else (Snapcaster? EE? Mindslaver?) Need to get rid of a creature for a little? Dismember/Repeal/Cyc Rift/something else. Need a counter? Condescend/Supreme Will/Remand/Snappy. Countering something with Gifts isn’t the most practical, but it can be done. Basically, gifts can get us whatever effect we want at instant speed, which is really good.
Ghost quarter comes in against tron, cavern decks, and control decks as an extra land. Keep in mind that our 4 expedition maps can fetch GQ, which makes it a really good 1-of in matchups where it matters. This also helps crucible’s effectiveness. Crucible comes in against ponza and control, especially the 4 FoR variants. We eventually get a decent amount of lands in the grave through our GQ/FoR/Tec Edge and through Thirsts, so it’s not just dead on its own.
I recently cut my spreading seas, and haven’t missed them. They only really shine against tron. Otherwise they’re not worth bringing in a lot of the time.
I was running with 1 Field of Ruin main and 1 Ghost Quarter side for a while, but I swapped the FoR for a Tec Edge and have been liking it a lot. At least against control, Tec Edge is a lot better, since our mana advantage is our biggest strength and pseudo-Wastelanding maintains that advantage. Against aggro... FoR is better, but if you're spending your t3 to blow up a land, you're probably not in the best spot anyways. Overall, the somewhat poor blue fixing isn't worth it for me, but I'd love to hear other opinions.
Also, I've seen some lists with FoR in the side instead of GQ. What's the logic behind that? It seems to me like in the matchups where LD is relevant, you'd rather have GQ than FoR.