Has anyone seen the mono red version of Living End that’s 5-0’d a few leagues?
3 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Desert Cerodon
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Hollow One
2 Insolent Neonate
4 Monstrous Carabid
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Street Wraith
3 Urabrask the Hidden
2 Cathartic Reunion
4 Faithless Looting
4 Living End
4 Electrodominance
16 Mountain
I have never seen this list of mono red Living End. It looks interesting I do say. Definitely changes up the way to get Living End to go off. Electrodominance is a spicy meatball I can say that. I would have to see it more in action to formulate an opinion on this variation of the deck. I do have to say. I do enjoy the spice though!
The list is probably different enough from standard LE that it merits its own discussion but I see some interesting stuff here.
This list should probably run some big dumb reanimation targets if it is not worried about binning stuff with cycling. If you are pitching to the yard with Cathartic and Faithless then Pathraiser of Ulamogand It that betrays come to mind. A turn 1 faithless looting discarding Pathraiser and Ubrask into a t2 electro is going to be game against any deck without counters I think.
Kari Zev’s Expertise in some number may be correct since 4 electro dominance is not a lot
Lack of beast within hurts a lot in the rest in peace match ups. Wonder what the sideboard looks like.
The list is probably different enough from standard LE that it merits its own discussion but I see some interesting stuff here.
This list should probably run some big dumb reanimation targets if it is not worried about binning stuff with cycling. If you are pitching to the yard with Cathartic and Faithless then Pathraiser of Ulamogand It that betrays come to mind. A turn 1 faithless looting discarding Pathraiser and Ubrask into a t2 electro is going to be game against any deck without counters I think.
Kari Zev’s Expertise in some number may be correct since 4 electro dominance is not a lot
Lack of beast within hurts a lot in the rest in peace match ups. Wonder what the sideboard looks like.
My responses to your points from playtesting that Mono-Red version:
1. I'm already trying Iona, Shield of Emeria as an additional game-swinging fatty (1-of). Your Turn 1 Looting into Turn 2 Electro End suggestion is already pretty Magical Christmas Land, even if I count Insolent Neonate as Looting and figure the second card doesn't need to be Urabrask, and discarding Iona in that sequence on Turn 1 has been even rarer. While I think 1 or 2 fatties can't harm the deck too much, the deck is inconsistent enough that I've seriously tried Sphinx of Foresight in the fatty slot.
Kindly take further discussion of the mono-red version to the linked thread. I will add the link to the primer post so anyone who wishes to discuss that version of Living End is free to do so in the appropriate thread.
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
Short answer: Grafdigger's isn't a problem as the creatures don't enter from the graveyard. Rest in Peace is something that your have to play around. I'm still a fan of running 4 Beast Within in my 75 though it seems to be getting a lot less common. Worst case, go to the fatty hard cast back up plan and hope for the best.
I'm still curious about the new mulligan potential so I look forward to some reports. I've been out of commission for a while so trying to stay informed. Seems the most obvious advantage gained (if any) is the Leyline sideboard plan. We've learned to deal with burn to some degree but an improved chance at shutting them down is some good.
I played against a dredge player in my local game store and we practiced with the London Mulligan Rule. Leyline of the Void was busted as hell and I hate that card so much I will not play it. It is just so not fun. If the London Mulligan will be the new way to go, I will play 1 Godless Shrine and 1 Sacred Foundry and 3 Wear // Tear in the sideboard I think...
The alternative you could be playing 2 Krosan Grip or something but it is only OK if you have a also Simian Spirit Guide, otherwise it is too slow.
"Affinity is like the Christian religion. You got the old testament and the new. The old one was full of real affinity cards and then the new testament Metalcraft came along. Now with Hardened Scales the new Church of Affinity split up in two, just like the Catholics and Protestants." BRG Living End BRG G Hardened Scales Affinity G
I played against a dredge player in my local game store and we practiced with the London Mulligan Rule. Leyline of the Void was busted as hell and I hate that card so much I will not play it. It is just so not fun. If the London Mulligan will be the new way to go, I will play 1 Godless Shrine and 1 Sacred Foundry and 3 Wear // Tear in the sideboard I think...
The alternative you could be playing 2 Krosan Grip or something but it is only OK if you have a also Simian Spirit Guide, otherwise it is too slow.
The deck could easily add in Godless Shrine. In fact, I used to play one when we ran 2-4 Pale Recluse.
You're putting yourself at a disadvantage by playing reactive answer cards specifically for a proactive threat when you could also play the proactive threat yourself that also functions as the answer too.
Resolving a black leyline against dredge means their entire gameplan is shut down, even if they have a leyline of their own, you're heavily advantaged with 3 unconditional wrath of god effects that may be instant speed.
The new Mulligan rule in my testing helps the deck a lot, just because after turn one you basically never have to worry about having -1 hand size because you started with a living end.
That being said, the prominence of phoenix and dredge, as well as how much the new mull rules it help decks mulligan to an answer/leyline, I think the deck may be a very subpar choice for the meta right now. In an environment where the top decks are not graveyard based this rule helps us out more than it hurts, but has an outsized effect the other way around.
I'm a strict adherent to the Living end deck and am still trying to foil mine out, but for the time being I may switch over to something that plays on a very different axis like Turns or something until the meta corrects itself.
I think a very experienced pilot will do fine in the current meta, but I agree that it’s been pretty hostile lately, new mulligan rule or not. Seen plenty of main deck Surgical Extraction and tons of Leylines in boarded games.
On the plus side, my Leylines have spiked in price to essentially 5 times what I paid for them. So that is nice.
I am a little worried about Modern Horizons. Usually the "normal" good rare cards don't improve Living End. Other deck will sure get their benefit or a new very good graveyard hate creature/enchantment comes up and presents a problem for us. The biggest powercreap we had in many years was the printing of 2 common creatures that could cycle and have more power by the drawback of cycling for only 1 specific mana. We would need some strange Split-Card, an evoke creature or better faerie macabre to get a powerboost and I am not sure why they should print something like that randomly. Of course another instant with cascade and 3 mana in black-green would be perfect but, well that is not going to happen...
I hope they don't print containment priest or we are f*cked
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Affinity is like the Christian religion. You got the old testament and the new. The old one was full of real affinity cards and then the new testament Metalcraft came along. Now with Hardened Scales the new Church of Affinity split up in two, just like the Catholics and Protestants." BRG Living End BRG G Hardened Scales Affinity G
RW Blaze Commando Soldier Swarm BW Edgewalker Clerics i.e. All the prevention R Ogre Menial (Fallen Feromancer) Tunnelin' Infectors GB Shaman of the Pack Elves URReclusive Artificer Artifact Control GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Tiny Leader Decks
WU Geist of Saint Traft WKembha's Cats WRG Marath Slide Control
Containment priest isn't even good against us. If that is their answer I'm happy, it's like the people that bring in Grafdigger's Cage
If it's on the field LE takes care of it. If they got it in the yard then we have fairies to remove it and additional answers in the board.
Thank you so much. I forgot that it dies to living End first and they can not flash it while living end is resolving. Glad you mentioned it!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Affinity is like the Christian religion. You got the old testament and the new. The old one was full of real affinity cards and then the new testament Metalcraft came along. Now with Hardened Scales the new Church of Affinity split up in two, just like the Catholics and Protestants." BRG Living End BRG G Hardened Scales Affinity G
I am a little worried about Modern Horizons. Usually the "normal" good rare cards don't improve Living End. Other deck will sure get their benefit or a new very good graveyard hate creature/enchantment comes up and presents a problem for us. The biggest powercreap we had in many years was the printing of 2 common creatures that could cycle and have more power by the drawback of cycling for only 1 specific mana. We would need some strange Split-Card, an evoke creature or better faerie macabre to get a powerboost and I am not sure why they should print something like that randomly. Of course another instant with cascade and 3 mana in black-green would be perfect but, well that is not going to happen...
I hope they don't print containment priest or we are f*cked
If any set was primed to give us new cycling cards or new evoke creatures I have to believe it would be this one. We traditionally do not get new cards in most sets, but cards we get have a profound impact when they have any impact, so I'll wait and see.
I believe the point of Modern Horizons is to help Tier 2-4 decks improve. But that is pretty tough to do without being very deliberate in designing cards for a deck, which makes a Limited environment very difficult.
I hope hate is narrow enough to not be automatic sideboard fodder if you’re in a certain color.
I mean we have seen one card thus far that has in fact been very deliberate.
Things that could help this deck are pretty broad.
A Modern legal printing of Living Death could see sideboard play and is a very safe and popular card for reprint.
Just another 1 mana cycler with slightly better stats could see play. Ceradon pushed the list practically into a new tier by itself and it was a toss away common, so even something as simple as a 5/5 Monstrous Carabid could represent a huge bump for us.
I think literally any useful effect tied onto any Evoke creature has the chance to be amazing. Imagine a evoker that allows you to put cards from hand back into deck or something like that.
Krosan Tusker
Big mana effects with alternate pitch costs, also just generally powerful cards for a set like this and not unreasonable to think we see it.
I have never seen this list of mono red Living End. It looks interesting I do say. Definitely changes up the way to get Living End to go off. Electrodominance is a spicy meatball I can say that. I would have to see it more in action to formulate an opinion on this variation of the deck. I do have to say. I do enjoy the spice though!
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Since that Mono-Red Living End list has a stronger Plan B than hardcasting fatties, I gave it its own thread a while ago as https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/806066-mono-red-living-end-with-hollow-one-flameblade.
My responses to your points from playtesting that Mono-Red version:
1. I'm already trying Iona, Shield of Emeria as an additional game-swinging fatty (1-of). Your Turn 1 Looting into Turn 2 Electro End suggestion is already pretty Magical Christmas Land, even if I count Insolent Neonate as Looting and figure the second card doesn't need to be Urabrask, and discarding Iona in that sequence on Turn 1 has been even rarer. While I think 1 or 2 fatties can't harm the deck too much, the deck is inconsistent enough that I've seriously tried Sphinx of Foresight in the fatty slot.
2. I've been able to win several games on the backs of Flameblade Adept and Hollow One alone in this deck, so I don't think Kari Zev's Expertise is needed at all.
3. The sideboards I've seen tend to look rather like this:
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Seems like we will benefit (sculpt hand and put LE on bottom) but Phoenix and Dredge seem to benefit more.
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Short answer: Grafdigger's isn't a problem as the creatures don't enter from the graveyard. Rest in Peace is something that your have to play around. I'm still a fan of running 4 Beast Within in my 75 though it seems to be getting a lot less common. Worst case, go to the fatty hard cast back up plan and hope for the best.
Both of these are covered in the primer post.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
And a fine one at that.
I'm still curious about the new mulligan potential so I look forward to some reports. I've been out of commission for a while so trying to stay informed. Seems the most obvious advantage gained (if any) is the Leyline sideboard plan. We've learned to deal with burn to some degree but an improved chance at shutting them down is some good.
The alternative you could be playing 2 Krosan Grip or something but it is only OK if you have a also Simian Spirit Guide, otherwise it is too slow.
BRG Living End BRG
G Hardened Scales Affinity G
The deck could easily add in Godless Shrine. In fact, I used to play one when we ran 2-4 Pale Recluse.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Resolving a black leyline against dredge means their entire gameplan is shut down, even if they have a leyline of their own, you're heavily advantaged with 3 unconditional wrath of god effects that may be instant speed.
That being said, the prominence of phoenix and dredge, as well as how much the new mull rules it help decks mulligan to an answer/leyline, I think the deck may be a very subpar choice for the meta right now. In an environment where the top decks are not graveyard based this rule helps us out more than it hurts, but has an outsized effect the other way around.
I'm a strict adherent to the Living end deck and am still trying to foil mine out, but for the time being I may switch over to something that plays on a very different axis like Turns or something until the meta corrects itself.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
On the plus side, my Leylines have spiked in price to essentially 5 times what I paid for them. So that is nice.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
I hope they don't print containment priest or we are f*cked
BRG Living End BRG
G Hardened Scales Affinity G
If it's on the field LE takes care of it. If they got it in the yard then we have fairies to remove it and additional answers in the board.
EDH DECKS:
GBCatacomb Sifter Sac-Attack
Thank you so much. I forgot that it dies to living End first and they can not flash it while living end is resolving. Glad you mentioned it!
BRG Living End BRG
G Hardened Scales Affinity G
If any set was primed to give us new cycling cards or new evoke creatures I have to believe it would be this one. We traditionally do not get new cards in most sets, but cards we get have a profound impact when they have any impact, so I'll wait and see.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
I hope hate is narrow enough to not be automatic sideboard fodder if you’re in a certain color.
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Things that could help this deck are pretty broad.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.