Was tinkering with the idea of a karn, scion of urza build. More mine heavy over dictate with chalice in the main to give another wincon and CA engine. Maybe batterskull too?
You guys think this is a rabbit hole worth chasing?
I guess quite legitimately the question then becomes "is karn better than jace the mind sculptor" seeing as they'd most likely be vying for the same slot in the deck.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I think Howling mine is far worse than dictate so having to switch those around in order to make karn playable seems risky.. Plus, his ultimate doesn't really win the game in the way Jace does...
that being said.. I think my question was lost in the forum lol; has anyone tried Teferi yet? I think he would be good in addition to Jace? Want feedback before I go and spend the money on him lol
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I don't believe that Karn solves any problems that the deck may have. He simply leads to a different version of the deck, one in which I doubt would be an improvement. The UR-Chandra version has always appealed to me, but I don't consider it better or more consistent than my UW version; thus, I have never considered acquiring the cards a worthy use of time & resources. At least Jace makes an immediate impact by either digging three cards deep or delaying their largest threat. Any chance that an artifact-Karn version could accelerate in order to combo sooner, like the BANT version?
Thank you Xenob8! Welcome back Purklefluff! I've been waiting to hear your conclusions from testing your UR(splash) with 2x Pyroclasm in the side board. Because of the rising popularity of Humans, I imagine it has a lot of promise. If you would rather save your thoughts for the Primer, then by all means, I will wait. I look forward to some updates.
Since tuning, my UW version has performed well at FNM. I only lose to fast red decks (burn and goblins). Although, I have yet to be paired against Jund. Has anyone tested with Sphere of Safety?
sup guys! had to take some time for some irl stuff deck is still kinda "solved" it seems from the lists i saw :/ i always read you all i just couldnt update the primer and play much recently
I don't believe that Karn solves any problems that the deck may have. He simply leads to a different version of the deck, one in which I doubt would be an improvement. The UR-Chandra version has always appealed to me, but I don't consider it better or more consistent than my UW version; thus, I have never considered acquiring the cards a worthy use of time & resources. At least Jace makes an immediate impact by either digging three cards deep or delaying their largest threat. Any chance that an artifact-Karn version could accelerate in order to combo sooner, like the BANT version?
Thank you Xenob8! Welcome back Purklefluff! I've been waiting to hear your conclusions from testing your UR(splash) with 2x Pyroclasm in the side board. Because of the rising popularity of Humans, I imagine it has a lot of promise. If you would rather save your thoughts for the Primer, then by all means, I will wait. I look forward to some updates.
Since tuning, my UW version has performed well at FNM. I only lose to fast red decks (burn and goblins). Although, I have yet to be paired against Jund. Has anyone tested with Sphere of Safety?
Could you do me a favor and post your UW build??
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Hey-o gang. This is RavenousRecoil, just haven't posted in a long while and had to reset my account.
Genuinely curious about a new combo I hadn't thought of that some poster was showcasing on reddit. It's Glorious End and Sundial of the Infinite being used as effective Time Warps on Turns 3-4. It's probably not wise to run this fast against a lot of decks, exiling spells and abilities off the stack while protecting myself seems very good. I would still run 4x Dictate of Kruphix, and maybe only 2x Sundials, but how many Glorious Ends should I run? Would a Fetch+Shock base hurt me too much against already painful aggro decks? Can I just settle for Checklands or something?
Let me know if this is an awful idea too btw. Thanks gang!
Hey RavenousRecoil! The idea might work in a UR build, but the critics are going to ask, "When you don't have both cards for the 2-card combo, what good is either card alone?". I've heard of people using Glorious End with Gideon of the Trials in standard, so in modern, with the proper brewing, anything is possible.
My UW version of 'Taking Turns'. It has worked well in my local meta (went 3-0 one night) but I have not played it in over a month due to work, grad school, and research.
I've not jammed Teferi in this deck, but considering the tightness of slots, the lower cost of Jace, and the frankly game winning interaction between brainstorm and temporal mastery....I don't see what Teferi does as helping more than Jace.
I'm huge on Teferi in UWR control, I think it's 1a or 1b with Search but not in this deck, not comparing to Jace.
I've taken a break from this deck for a few months now it feels, but I'm still confused on the draw to Uw vs Ub.
Push and Brutality would seem to be the best additions we could ask for.
With UWRs time about to end (imo, based on the way I feel the meta is shifting) I am dusting off the Time Walks, and I think Ub is what I'll be grinding online a bit.
EDIT: Just threw this together on MTGO, and its the absolute truth.
No tuning at all, and a few cards I couldnt find as I wanted to get a game in before lunch ends, but felt good to 2-0 Storm again.
I've been working on a UR variant of Taking Turns and wanted to submit the list for analysis. The Sundials and Trickbinds can be used to counter opponents' fetchlands, and other abilities, so they've taken over the role of most of my counterspells. Swan Song can be used offensively by targeting one of my Gigadrowse copies. Glorious End and Exhaustion both allow me to take extra turns so they're both at 3x. I can usually get the combo to go off when goldfishing, but I'm not sure it's got the inevitability of a MonoU build. The lands are NOT optimal because I CANNOT pay for Scalding Tarn. Let me know what you think!
I've been working on a UR variant of Taking Turns and wanted to submit the list for analysis. The Sundials and Trickbinds can be used to counter opponents' fetchlands, and other abilities, so they've taken over the role of most of my counterspells. Swan Song can be used offensively by targeting one of my Gigadrowse copies. Glorious End and Exhaustion both allow me to take extra turns so they're both at 3x. I can usually get the combo to go off when goldfishing, but I'm not sure it's got the inevitability of a MonoU build. The lands are NOT optimal because I CANNOT pay for Scalding Tarn. Let me know what you think!
I'll feed back more fully when I'm awake but two things occur immediately
1) sundial only works during your own turn so how is it countering anything unless your opponent is missing an on-board trick?
2) why would you need scalding tarns? We don't want basic mountain so any blue fetch will do.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I cant even begin to offer advice on that one sorry. Too much of a departure from what I've played.
Oh man I've been playing this deck for years so when I saw a reddit post about Glorious End and Sundial working by exiling abilities off the stack, I just had to try it. You can classify both cards as Interaction. Trickbind works on Fetches, Planeswalkers, and combos. It just so happens to work with Glorious End as well!
I've been working on a UR variant of Taking Turns and wanted to submit the list for analysis. The Sundials and Trickbinds can be used to counter opponents' fetchlands, and other abilities, so they've taken over the role of most of my counterspells. Swan Song can be used offensively by targeting one of my Gigadrowse copies. Glorious End and Exhaustion both allow me to take extra turns so they're both at 3x. I can usually get the combo to go off when goldfishing, but I'm not sure it's got the inevitability of a MonoU build. The lands are NOT optimal because I CANNOT pay for Scalding Tarn. Let me know what you think!
I'll feed back more fully when I'm awake but two things occur immediately
1) sundial only works during your own turn so how is it countering anything unless your opponent is missing an on-board trick?
2) why would you need scalding tarns? We don't want basic mountain so any blue fetch will do.
Okay that's good actually, maybe I'll try to find a better way to fix my mana!
With regards to Sundial, yeah it only works on my own turn, but having it there should help deter other abilities played on my own EoT. Either way, I'm only playing 2 so it shouldn't be a dead card too often even though it's janky as balls.
Fwiw try flooded strand or polluted delta. They have on-and-off been the cheapest blue fetches. You may find polluted deltas cheaper than strands now that grixis is struggling and UW is a widely played deck.
I'm rebuilding my deck again after cannibalising the Cryptics and a few lands away for other projects like Cheerios (it's amazing!) but my main deck rotation is incorporating turns again into my four slots in the big deck boxes.
Current active decks:
Abzan counters company
Turns (UR)
CHEERIOS AHHHHHGGGG
KCI
Good ol' turns. It's such a pretty deck as well. Just flicking through it has such a powerful blue glow to it. The artwork is amazing and now with jace it just feels naughty haha
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
OK, so for those who have run a minor splash, Ub or Uw, even Ur (Bolts and such). Let me know what you think on my mana base as I'm really only experienced with the Mono U as thats all I ran for like a year.
First, the core the deck has not really changed in any appreciable way to me for a long time. The lands are there for 1 an additional Mine, 2, a way to get through Infinite Life, and 3, a lot of beautiful Islands.
The Mines are a 2/4 split, with Jace filling all roles, and Serum's there because its our best option as a Cantrip.
The flex slots are the usual, but with the black splash for Fatal Push, Collective Brutality, and Tasigur, but it also enables Discard in the post board games where helpful.
This brings me to 23 lands, only 4 Fetch (I would split these up for min/max purposes) and 5 black sources. Is that normal for the splash to only run 4 Fetch? In my UWR I'm used to 8.
Sideboard is the following.
Spellbomb - Dredge, Mardu, Ux, lots of things.
Sphere - Tron/Storm.
Hurkyl - Affinity, Lantern, KCI
Push/Brutality - Anything small creature.
IoK/Thought - Combo's.
Things/Tas - Alternative Win Cons, for game 2/3.
I think thats about it. Is that mana base fine for the splash, or do I need more Fetchlands? Anything missing out of my sideboard that is a huge omission? The only thing I can think of is Chalice (dont have it) or EE (dont have it) but if those are sure fire upgrades, what would I drop for them?
It's been a while since I've played MTG and there seems to be some new options for my favourite modern archetype, namely Jace, Vryn's Prophecy, Search For Azcanta and Jace the Mind Sculptor. If someone could give their TL;DR description on these cards, what they do for Turns and what cards they replace I'd be ecstatic. For reference here's my old list:
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Search for Azcanta offer card quality improvements, but because this deck needs quantity (both lands and spells), they often don't make the cut. Search is subtly powerful as a Rampant Growth because of the extra land, but I still don't think it's great. Jace, the Mind Sculptor, on the other hand, offers card advantage with his +0 (if he sticks), interacts very well with Temporal Mastery, and offers an alternate wincon in the form of his -12. Unfortunately, JtMS is pretty bad when your opponent already has a reasonable board presence, and 4 mana at sorcery speed is a lot to ask. In your list, 2 JtMS can easily replace 1 Howling Mine (since he's basically a Mine) and 1 Part the Waterveil (since he's another wincon, you don't need as many).
OK, so for those who have run a minor splash, Ub or Uw, even Ur (Bolts and such). Let me know what you think on my mana base as I'm really only experienced with the Mono U as thats all I ran for like a year.
First, the core the deck has not really changed in any appreciable way to me for a long time. The lands are there for 1 an additional Mine, 2, a way to get through Infinite Life, and 3, a lot of beautiful Islands.
The Mines are a 2/4 split, with Jace filling all roles, and Serum's there because its our best option as a Cantrip.
The flex slots are the usual, but with the black splash for Fatal Push, Collective Brutality, and Tasigur, but it also enables Discard in the post board games where helpful.
This brings me to 23 lands, only 4 Fetch (I would split these up for min/max purposes) and 5 black sources. Is that normal for the splash to only run 4 Fetch? In my UWR I'm used to 8.
Sideboard is the following.
Spellbomb - Dredge, Mardu, Ux, lots of things.
Sphere - Tron/Storm.
Hurkyl - Affinity, Lantern, KCI
Push/Brutality - Anything small creature.
IoK/Thought - Combo's.
Things/Tas - Alternative Win Cons, for game 2/3.
I think thats about it. Is that mana base fine for the splash, or do I need more Fetchlands? Anything missing out of my sideboard that is a huge omission? The only thing I can think of is Chalice (dont have it) or EE (dont have it) but if those are sure fire upgrades, what would I drop for them?
Frank Karsten wrote a great article about how many colored mana sources you need to consistently cast your spells. The meat of the article is that with 9 sources, it will be turn 6 by the time you consistently (90% of the time) have mana of that color. This assumes no cards like Serum Visions, so maybe that's actually closer to turn 5, but you need to ask yourself: is it ok to not have my splash color until turn 5 or 6? In the case of this deck, it looks like that's probably too late for spells like Inquisition, Thoughtseize, Fatal Push, and Collective Brutality. With 11 sources, you can hit your colored mana consistently by turn 4 (and again maybe turn 3 with Serum Visions), which is a lot more appealing. My experience with a similar build is that a Theros Temple and some Battle for Zendikar lands work wonders. I think you can change -2 Island, -1 Watery Grave, +1 Temple of Deceit, +2 Sunken Hollow and have an excellent manabase. 4 fetches has been a good split of not taking too much damage, but having fetches available for Jace brainstorms and splash colors. As for the sideboard, I don't think Damping Sphere is necessary because our Tron matchup is already so good. Chalice on X=2 is great against Storm while also being effective against a much wider variety of decks than Damping Sphere, so that's my choice for what to replace.
OK I'll give that a shot. I had the Sunken Hollow, but with the 2 Gemstone Mines, I had some hands that just would not work for Mana. Coming from a mono U, and the very solid UWR mana, it just felt a bit off.
@timewalkinonsunshine Thank you for all your input to this forum! Definitely appreciated
So I have a quick question. I am running a UW build and I am finding difficulty in building a sideboard for this deck. I know it is something talked about frequently in this group.
It has felt awkward because generally this deck is strong as is against a lot of the creature decks. I also think dedicating 6 board wipe sideboard options is too much however I don't really like the Chalice of the Void either as they haven't really had any shine moments. The terminus and timely reinforcements however have been excellent and I think the numbers are accurate.
So to my question... does anyone else have other strong recommendations? (sidenote: burn is something I am trying to beat as well as maradu pyromancer)
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
I guess quite legitimately the question then becomes "is karn better than jace the mind sculptor" seeing as they'd most likely be vying for the same slot in the deck.
that being said.. I think my question was lost in the forum lol; has anyone tried Teferi yet? I think he would be good in addition to Jace? Want feedback before I go and spend the money on him lol
Thank you Xenob8! Welcome back Purklefluff! I've been waiting to hear your conclusions from testing your UR(splash) with 2x Pyroclasm in the side board. Because of the rising popularity of Humans, I imagine it has a lot of promise. If you would rather save your thoughts for the Primer, then by all means, I will wait. I look forward to some updates.
Since tuning, my UW version has performed well at FNM. I only lose to fast red decks (burn and goblins). Although, I have yet to be paired against Jund. Has anyone tested with Sphere of Safety?
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Could you do me a favor and post your UW build??
Genuinely curious about a new combo I hadn't thought of that some poster was showcasing on reddit. It's Glorious End and Sundial of the Infinite being used as effective Time Warps on Turns 3-4. It's probably not wise to run this fast against a lot of decks, exiling spells and abilities off the stack while protecting myself seems very good. I would still run 4x Dictate of Kruphix, and maybe only 2x Sundials, but how many Glorious Ends should I run? Would a Fetch+Shock base hurt me too much against already painful aggro decks? Can I just settle for Checklands or something?
Let me know if this is an awful idea too btw. Thanks gang!
My UW version of 'Taking Turns'. It has worked well in my local meta (went 3-0 one night) but I have not played it in over a month due to work, grad school, and research.
LANDS (23)
MINES (8)
EXTRA TURNS (11)
INTERACTION etc. (18)
SIDE BOARD (16)
I'm huge on Teferi in UWR control, I think it's 1a or 1b with Search but not in this deck, not comparing to Jace.
I've taken a break from this deck for a few months now it feels, but I'm still confused on the draw to Uw vs Ub.
Push and Brutality would seem to be the best additions we could ask for.
With UWRs time about to end (imo, based on the way I feel the meta is shifting) I am dusting off the Time Walks, and I think Ub is what I'll be grinding online a bit.
EDIT: Just threw this together on MTGO, and its the absolute truth.
No tuning at all, and a few cards I couldnt find as I wanted to get a game in before lunch ends, but felt good to 2-0 Storm again.
1 Polluted Delta
3 Drowned Catacomb
1 Flooded Strand
1 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2 Sunken Hollow
1 Watery Grave
9 Island
2 Scalding Tarn
//Draw
4 Serum Visions
2 Howling Mine
4 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Gigadrowse
2 Fatal Push
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Exhaustion
2 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
//Turns
4 Time Warp
2 Part the Waterveil
4 Temporal Mastery
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Damping Sphere
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Thing in the Ice
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Fatal Push
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Dispel
1 Boomerang
Spirits
I've been working on a UR variant of Taking Turns and wanted to submit the list for analysis. The Sundials and Trickbinds can be used to counter opponents' fetchlands, and other abilities, so they've taken over the role of most of my counterspells. Swan Song can be used offensively by targeting one of my Gigadrowse copies. Glorious End and Exhaustion both allow me to take extra turns so they're both at 3x. I can usually get the combo to go off when goldfishing, but I'm not sure it's got the inevitability of a MonoU build. The lands are NOT optimal because I CANNOT pay for Scalding Tarn. Let me know what you think!
4 Gigadrowse
4 Serum Visions
3 Swan Song
2 Howling Mine
2 Sundial of the Infinite
3 Trickbind
3 Dictate of Kruphix
3 Exhaustion
3 Glorious End
1 Nahiri's Wrath
4 Time Warp
4 Part the Waterveil
4 Cascade Bluffs
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
13 Island
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Platinum Emperion
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Dispel
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Pithing Needle
3 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Muddle the Mixture
2 Nahiri's Wrath
2 Stone Rain
Spirits
I'll feed back more fully when I'm awake but two things occur immediately
1) sundial only works during your own turn so how is it countering anything unless your opponent is missing an on-board trick?
2) why would you need scalding tarns? We don't want basic mountain so any blue fetch will do.
Oh man I've been playing this deck for years so when I saw a reddit post about Glorious End and Sundial working by exiling abilities off the stack, I just had to try it. You can classify both cards as Interaction. Trickbind works on Fetches, Planeswalkers, and combos. It just so happens to work with Glorious End as well!
In other news, I think I'll put some time into this Ub build and get the last few cards I want.
2-0 Storm
1-2 Dredge (I punted...)
2-0 UWR Control
2-1 RW Burn (Push!)
Feels good to be able to combo off again after literally weeks of grinding out wins (or losses!) on UWR.
Spirits
Okay that's good actually, maybe I'll try to find a better way to fix my mana!
With regards to Sundial, yeah it only works on my own turn, but having it there should help deter other abilities played on my own EoT. Either way, I'm only playing 2 so it shouldn't be a dead card too often even though it's janky as balls.
I'm rebuilding my deck again after cannibalising the Cryptics and a few lands away for other projects like Cheerios (it's amazing!) but my main deck rotation is incorporating turns again into my four slots in the big deck boxes.
Current active decks:
Abzan counters company
Turns (UR)
CHEERIOS AHHHHHGGGG
KCI
Good ol' turns. It's such a pretty deck as well. Just flicking through it has such a powerful blue glow to it. The artwork is amazing and now with jace it just feels naughty haha
First, the core the deck has not really changed in any appreciable way to me for a long time. The lands are there for 1 an additional Mine, 2, a way to get through Infinite Life, and 3, a lot of beautiful Islands.
The Mines are a 2/4 split, with Jace filling all roles, and Serum's there because its our best option as a Cantrip.
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
12 Island
//Draw/Mine 12
4 Serum Visions
2 Howling Mine
4 Dictate of Kruphix
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Gigadrowse
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Exhaustion
2 Cryptic Command
4 Time Warp
2 Part the Waterveil
4 Temporal Mastery
The flex slots are the usual, but with the black splash for Fatal Push, Collective Brutality, and Tasigur, but it also enables Discard in the post board games where helpful.
//Land 9
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
2 Fatal Push
2 Remand
This brings me to 23 lands, only 4 Fetch (I would split these up for min/max purposes) and 5 black sources. Is that normal for the splash to only run 4 Fetch? In my UWR I'm used to 8.
Sideboard is the following.
Spellbomb - Dredge, Mardu, Ux, lots of things.
Sphere - Tron/Storm.
Hurkyl - Affinity, Lantern, KCI
Push/Brutality - Anything small creature.
IoK/Thought - Combo's.
Things/Tas - Alternative Win Cons, for game 2/3.
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Damping Sphere
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Thing in the Ice
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
I think thats about it. Is that mana base fine for the splash, or do I need more Fetchlands? Anything missing out of my sideboard that is a huge omission? The only thing I can think of is Chalice (dont have it) or EE (dont have it) but if those are sure fire upgrades, what would I drop for them?
Spirits
Frank Karsten wrote a great article about how many colored mana sources you need to consistently cast your spells. The meat of the article is that with 9 sources, it will be turn 6 by the time you consistently (90% of the time) have mana of that color. This assumes no cards like Serum Visions, so maybe that's actually closer to turn 5, but you need to ask yourself: is it ok to not have my splash color until turn 5 or 6? In the case of this deck, it looks like that's probably too late for spells like Inquisition, Thoughtseize, Fatal Push, and Collective Brutality. With 11 sources, you can hit your colored mana consistently by turn 4 (and again maybe turn 3 with Serum Visions), which is a lot more appealing. My experience with a similar build is that a Theros Temple and some Battle for Zendikar lands work wonders. I think you can change -2 Island, -1 Watery Grave, +1 Temple of Deceit, +2 Sunken Hollow and have an excellent manabase. 4 fetches has been a good split of not taking too much damage, but having fetches available for Jace brainstorms and splash colors. As for the sideboard, I don't think Damping Sphere is necessary because our Tron matchup is already so good. Chalice on X=2 is great against Storm while also being effective against a much wider variety of decks than Damping Sphere, so that's my choice for what to replace.
Spirits
So I have a quick question. I am running a UW build and I am finding difficulty in building a sideboard for this deck. I know it is something talked about frequently in this group.
Currently I am running
4x Terminus
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Thing in the Ice
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Echoing Truth
1x Dispel
2x Leyline of Sanctity
It has felt awkward because generally this deck is strong as is against a lot of the creature decks. I also think dedicating 6 board wipe sideboard options is too much however I don't really like the Chalice of the Void either as they haven't really had any shine moments. The terminus and timely reinforcements however have been excellent and I think the numbers are accurate.
So to my question... does anyone else have other strong recommendations? (sidenote: burn is something I am trying to beat as well as maradu pyromancer)
Spirits