Okay so first FNM played with the deck (running the UW version - very similar to that of SaffronOlive but I am running Narset Transcendent in place of Day's Undoing because it seems better for my area (they have a tough time and don't sideboard well against planeswalkers)
Was an awesome night! Ended up going 3-1 and had some excellent matches against Jund in which I was able to pull off a win at 1 life and another in which I was able to hit 3 miracle terminus to keep his creatures at bay. Definitely loving this deck.. Anxious to get Chandra in the mail to try a UR version that Seba has been streaming on Twitch
Yeah, that UR version seems like GAS, although I prefer the UW version myself. (I should probably at least test the others before I say that, lol.)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Yeah, that UR version seems like GAS, although I prefer the UW version myself. (I should probably at least test the others before I say that, lol.)
Yeah I sleeved up the UR version and it is insane.. one of the problems I've been running into with UW is that without ancestral vision you can run into brick situations but with UR you have access to Wheel of Fate and it is incredible.. I also really like the card Temporal Trespass in that version since it is easy to hit delve.. and Chandra is just nuts.. since a lot of people have went away from side boarding Leyland of Sanctity she just seems like a guaranteed win condition
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Here's a link to a UR list.. if you look it Seba on Twitch he has some videos of him running a Jeskai version as well but I don't like going three colors because one of the biggest benefits to this deck is that it doesn't care about blood moon as much as other decks.
I also think that if I were to run a UR list I would probably do 2 Chandra, 1 Jace because his brainstorm is really important to setting up miracles
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
I'm considering bringing this to a local event, specifically the Ub list from the GP Kyoto winners. What decks should I be aware of as bad matchups? What are some common sideboard strategies? I've tested against Eldrazi&Taxes, Green Tron and Amulet Titan, but I'm not sure how I'd fare against jund, burn, affinity etc. I'm generally not super familiar with the decks beyond watching a few videos. I think I've gotten a sense for the general plays but any pitfalls? Mulligan/SB advice?
I'm considering bringing this to a local event, specifically the Ub list from the GP Kyoto winners. What decks should I be aware of as bad matchups? What are some common sideboard strategies? I've tested against Eldrazi&Taxes, Green Tron and Amulet Titan, but I'm not sure how I'd fare against jund, burn, affinity etc. I'm generally not super familiar with the decks beyond watching a few videos. I think I've gotten a sense for the general plays but any pitfalls? Mulligan/SB advice?
Generally this deck does extremely well against decks that are slow to start (It actually can combo off before burn can get in enough damage). But you will definitely have difficulty against affinity and other fast creature decks because you really aren't slowing them down except with Exhaustion and Gigadrowse if you run it.. That's sort of why I like the UW list over the UB list because you can run Timely Reinforcements. Other than that Hurkyll's Recall and Echoing Truth are good sideboard options because they stall a turn before you hit your lands and can effectively start time walking
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
I'm considering bringing this to a local event, specifically the Ub list from the GP Kyoto winners. What decks should I be aware of as bad matchups? What are some common sideboard strategies? I've tested against Eldrazi&Taxes, Green Tron and Amulet Titan, but I'm not sure how I'd fare against jund, burn, affinity etc. I'm generally not super familiar with the decks beyond watching a few videos. I think I've gotten a sense for the general plays but any pitfalls? Mulligan/SB advice?
Careful of looking at only one list for inspiration. That's a pitfall. Better to look over a lot of lists and take an aggregate view.
For instance, those aggressive matchups are indeed a bit tricky. Stuff like Affinity and bushwhacker aggro with a fast start can get there before you have a chance to stabilise. Tools like pyroclasm, timely and hurkyl's recall are good here. thing in the ice is the glue that helps to pull your game together against fast creature aggro.
I personally play a UR list specifically to Combat weenie-aggro, burn and derpy combo decks like ad nauseam. My board looks like this:
3x pyroclasm
2x dispel
1x spell pierce
1x negate
1x counterflux
2x hurkyl's recall
1x echoing truth
3x thing in the ice
1x keranos, god of storms
The one keranos is there just as a gamebreaker against grindy decks. It works well but it's potentially correct just to jam the 4th pyroclasm or something similar.
Basicslly I set out saying to myself "I never want to lose to fast aggro or combo" and went from there. In doing so i've sacrificed a few potential percentage points in other areas, for instance against death's shadow decks (not running chalice or leyline) but so far I've been happy with the board.
My maindeck is pretty stock. Mono blue, but dropped howling mine completely and am running ancestral vision instead. It's been fantastic and I won't be going back in a hurry. I'm making up for my sideboard decisions here by having a maindeck tool that smashes gbx midrange decks and control. AV is a house.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
That makes sense. Thanks guys. I picked the Ub list because I have the cards for it and it seemed like a good angle to me in testing. Hopefully I can test it out soon at an event and get a better feel for it.
Fatal push has done really well for me and exhaustion is great against creature decks, but I need more testing. My big concern is fighting against disruption, I think. And for G-tron, making sure I can slow them down enough to go off before they do.
A combination of circumstances led to this being the time I enter Modern and taking turns being the deck I built to enter the format (I owned 16 of the main cards I needed, I love combo/control and the version (i.e. U/B, my favourite colour combination in MtG and mono-U being my favourite colour to play) I wanted to play just top 4'd a GP).
Here is a link to my current deck list. I changed the mana base from the top 4 list to have more Islands, I took out two Jace's (he's expensive and I don't know my local meta yet plus I already have two Vedalken Shackles) and I have an extra Fatal Push instead of Engineered Explosives. I hope to play this deck for the first time in a little over a week or two (if the cards I had to order online arrive on time).
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Modern:UB Taking Turns Modern:URW Madcap Experiment Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
You'll have to let us know how Veldaken shackles feels in the deck! I like the list, however if I were to recommend, I would cut one shackles for another exhaustion.. It is definitely a very important card to the deck and 3-4 seems like where you want to be at.. and it isn't too pricey either
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Okay, so I figured i'd ask here. Has anyone tried an Esper version of the deck, and if so can they post what their mana base looks like? I really want to try something along the lines of 3x Lingering Souls and access to fatal push as well. I think that it would work nicely.
SIDE NOTE: I just got my Rebecca Guay promo Boomerangs in the mail and have been play testing and I think that it works really nice in the deck. I played in an FNM last week and was able to bounce manlands back to my opponents hand to set them back long enough to combo and it feels like a good turn 2 play to buy an extra land drop similar to how Exhaustion does so on turn 3
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UU"Brute force can sometimes kick down a locked door, but knowledge is a skeleton key"UU
Hey y'all! I went 12-2-1 at GP Hartford, good for 12th place. Decklist on the mothership.
I'm planning on doing a proper writeup early this week, including an explanation for my unintentional draw (I used to pride myself on never drawing with this deck and am ashamed of breaking that streak). Talk to you then!
Nice report. Good job! Have you talked to Seba about the UW list recently? I like it a lot, but some matchups are still really tough, mostly the super quick hands from super quick decks.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Just started playing this deck and it is totally up my alley. I do have a few questions though:
Is there a really compelling reason not to just play mono blue? I see black and red variants floating around but I cannot help but feel like those just open you up to different hate options. Mono blue, specifically a list high on basics has much better Giga Drowses, More reliable Cryptic commands, less expenditure of life total on fetches, and still has access to pretty much every answer in the game. Other than increased weakness to Choke and Boil, I fail to really see the value.
Remand vs Mana leak. I'm a little in the dark about which is better. I have seen remand in a bunch of lists but in my playtesting it has been hit or miss. Remand is kinda terrible against aggro/burn strategies and arguably better against combo lists like restore balance or Living end. Since our early game is what we need to shore up does it not make more sense to run Manaleak which in the late game can still provide value as you can force your opponent to tap out to hit them with exhaustion?
If you read thru your report there is a lot of fizzling, unusual for Turns, its because you have a lot of interaction, but sometimes you just can't close the games, yet you said you are satisfied with the deck, you went down to "just" 9 actual time walks - don't you think that you should be adding back either a 3rd PtW or 4th Mastery? Both choices make sense to me, maybe in conjunction with Jace I would go for the 4th Mastery ... or the opposite - would put in the 3rd PtW for the 2nd Jace? I play Mono U - so maybe with the black, having more wincons you don't value 3rd PtW that much
I don't think I was quite clear enough in my language. By "fizzle", I meant "pass the turn back to my opponent, including if I had a Gigadrowse or Exhaustion". I'm fizzling a reasonable amount because I run relatively low time walk counts like you said, only 9 total warp spells. Let me be clear about this, fizzling some amount of the time is a good thing. It means there's enough interaction in the deck that I can get to the "going off" part of the game more often. Also, note that most of the time that I fizzled, I was still able to win the game. I don't think that a 3rd Part or 4th Mastery are what the deck needs. I also don't think adding Mastery just because Jace is in the deck is a good idea. There are certainly enough win conditions in the maindeck, and between Thing in the Ice and Tasigur, I feel pretty happy about my number of win conditions in the sideboard.
Just started playing this deck and it is totally up my alley. I do have a few questions though:
Is there a really compelling reason not to just play mono blue? I see black and red variants floating around but I cannot help but feel like those just open you up to different hate options. Mono blue, specifically a list high on basics has much better Giga Drowses, More reliable Cryptic commands, less expenditure of life total on fetches, and still has access to pretty much every answer in the game. Other than increased weakness to Choke and Boil, I fail to really see the value.
Remand vs Mana leak. I'm a little in the dark about which is better. I have seen remand in a bunch of lists but in my playtesting it has been hit or miss. Remand is kinda terrible against aggro/burn strategies and arguably better against combo lists like restore balance or Living end. Since our early game is what we need to shore up does it not make more sense to run Manaleak which in the late game can still provide value as you can force your opponent to tap out to hit them with exhaustion?
The reasons not to play Mono-U are better interaction in Fatal Push or Path to Exile and better sideboard cards like Thoughtseize, Collective Brutality, Tasigur, Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, and Timely Reinforcements. Those cards are enough better than blue alternatives that I'm willing to have a more painful manabase to do it. Since all of my black lands also tap for blue, your points about Gigadrowse and Cryptic Command are only true in the face of nonbasic land hate like Blood Moon or Fulminator Mage. Outside of those cards, Gigadrowse and Cryptic behave exactly the same in a splash version compared to Mono-U. Choke and Boil are two cards that I've seen maybe two or three times in my past few years of playing the deck, so I don't consider them at all when deckbuilding. Regarding Remand versus Mana Leak, I think that Remand is better for this deck because delaying the opponent and drawing a card is often better than permanently countering a spell, just because of how important it is for us to hit land drops and Howling Mine effects. That said, I think that both are lackluster in a fast meta like the current one, so I don't spend much time thinking about those either of those cards.
EDIT: Sorry FoodChainGoblins, missed your post somehow.
Nice report. Good job! Have you talked to Seba about the UW list recently? I like it a lot, but some matchups are still really tough, mostly the super quick hands from super quick decks.
Thanks! We had a brief conversation in the reddit thread but that's about it. I agree that the tough matchups are really tough, but that's Modern for you. I think UW probably gives you the best advantages against Hollow One and Burn, but they still seem hard to win.
Feels like The Mirari Conjecture would be a nice one of. Like a Planeswalker, it's naturally good with taking turns. The first counter gets you back a card draw or counter, second one gets you another turn, last one probably wins you the game on the spot
Feels like The Mirari Conjecture would be a nice one of. Like a Planeswalker, it's naturally good with taking turns. The first counter gets you back a card draw or counter, second one gets you another turn, last one probably wins you the game on the spot
It does feel over costed by one mana though.
There are a number of cards in this new set I like for the deck, that is not one of them. It just feels far to costly to do nothing the turn it comes into play, and if you have enough mana to cast it and a timewarp you probabaly are in position to win to begin with.
However this set does have a lot.
Merfolk Trickster - Seems like it could be very good in a fast meta to deal with early attackers and can sub as a beater when needed.
Naru Meha, Master Wizard - For our deck in particular, this might actually be a better snapcaster. Larger body and pumps your other snappys, but also comes down on turn 9 to copy a timewarp for 4 and leaves that copy in the yard to be recast with snapcaster. I cannot see me not using one of these in the future.
Tempest Djinn - I am not as up on this as some of my friends but if you can land it on turn 3 in a mono blue list its a solid body that can go over the top and you really do not need many timewarps after that to close out the game.
Time of Ice - This seems right where we want to be in a lot of ways. On turn 4 you disable a creatures while it is in play, which is what we have been doing with gigadrowse and cryptic for a while now, but the fact that it removes them from the board and can prevent attacks in the first place is huge. In a lot of ways it combines exhaustion and Gigdrowse into one card, but still combos with them on later turns.
Dampening sphere - Sideboard of course, but so very good against things like urzatron. The anti storm tech hits us a little, but we can usually turn our way through it.
Yeah, that UR version seems like GAS, although I prefer the UW version myself. (I should probably at least test the others before I say that, lol.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yeah I sleeved up the UR version and it is insane.. one of the problems I've been running into with UW is that without ancestral vision you can run into brick situations but with UR you have access to Wheel of Fate and it is incredible.. I also really like the card Temporal Trespass in that version since it is easy to hit delve.. and Chandra is just nuts.. since a lot of people have went away from side boarding Leyland of Sanctity she just seems like a guaranteed win condition
Here's a link to a UR list.. if you look it Seba on Twitch he has some videos of him running a Jeskai version as well but I don't like going three colors because one of the biggest benefits to this deck is that it doesn't care about blood moon as much as other decks.
I also think that if I were to run a UR list I would probably do 2 Chandra, 1 Jace because his brainstorm is really important to setting up miracles
Generally this deck does extremely well against decks that are slow to start (It actually can combo off before burn can get in enough damage). But you will definitely have difficulty against affinity and other fast creature decks because you really aren't slowing them down except with Exhaustion and Gigadrowse if you run it.. That's sort of why I like the UW list over the UB list because you can run Timely Reinforcements. Other than that Hurkyll's Recall and Echoing Truth are good sideboard options because they stall a turn before you hit your lands and can effectively start time walking
Careful of looking at only one list for inspiration. That's a pitfall. Better to look over a lot of lists and take an aggregate view.
For instance, those aggressive matchups are indeed a bit tricky. Stuff like Affinity and bushwhacker aggro with a fast start can get there before you have a chance to stabilise. Tools like pyroclasm, timely and hurkyl's recall are good here. thing in the ice is the glue that helps to pull your game together against fast creature aggro.
I personally play a UR list specifically to Combat weenie-aggro, burn and derpy combo decks like ad nauseam. My board looks like this:
3x pyroclasm
2x dispel
1x spell pierce
1x negate
1x counterflux
2x hurkyl's recall
1x echoing truth
3x thing in the ice
1x keranos, god of storms
The one keranos is there just as a gamebreaker against grindy decks. It works well but it's potentially correct just to jam the 4th pyroclasm or something similar.
Basicslly I set out saying to myself "I never want to lose to fast aggro or combo" and went from there. In doing so i've sacrificed a few potential percentage points in other areas, for instance against death's shadow decks (not running chalice or leyline) but so far I've been happy with the board.
My maindeck is pretty stock. Mono blue, but dropped howling mine completely and am running ancestral vision instead. It's been fantastic and I won't be going back in a hurry. I'm making up for my sideboard decisions here by having a maindeck tool that smashes gbx midrange decks and control. AV is a house.
Fatal push has done really well for me and exhaustion is great against creature decks, but I need more testing. My big concern is fighting against disruption, I think. And for G-tron, making sure I can slow them down enough to go off before they do.
Here is a link to my current deck list. I changed the mana base from the top 4 list to have more Islands, I took out two Jace's (he's expensive and I don't know my local meta yet plus I already have two Vedalken Shackles) and I have an extra Fatal Push instead of Engineered Explosives. I hope to play this deck for the first time in a little over a week or two (if the cards I had to order online arrive on time).
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
SIDE NOTE: I just got my Rebecca Guay promo Boomerangs in the mail and have been play testing and I think that it works really nice in the deck. I played in an FNM last week and was able to bounce manlands back to my opponents hand to set them back long enough to combo and it feels like a good turn 2 play to buy an extra land drop similar to how Exhaustion does so on turn 3
Spirits
I'm planning on doing a proper writeup early this week, including an explanation for my unintentional draw (I used to pride myself on never drawing with this deck and am ashamed of breaking that streak). Talk to you then!
Spirits
Nice report. Good job! Have you talked to Seba about the UW list recently? I like it a lot, but some matchups are still really tough, mostly the super quick hands from super quick decks.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
I don't think I was quite clear enough in my language. By "fizzle", I meant "pass the turn back to my opponent, including if I had a Gigadrowse or Exhaustion". I'm fizzling a reasonable amount because I run relatively low time walk counts like you said, only 9 total warp spells. Let me be clear about this, fizzling some amount of the time is a good thing. It means there's enough interaction in the deck that I can get to the "going off" part of the game more often. Also, note that most of the time that I fizzled, I was still able to win the game. I don't think that a 3rd Part or 4th Mastery are what the deck needs. I also don't think adding Mastery just because Jace is in the deck is a good idea. There are certainly enough win conditions in the maindeck, and between Thing in the Ice and Tasigur, I feel pretty happy about my number of win conditions in the sideboard.
The reasons not to play Mono-U are better interaction in Fatal Push or Path to Exile and better sideboard cards like Thoughtseize, Collective Brutality, Tasigur, Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, and Timely Reinforcements. Those cards are enough better than blue alternatives that I'm willing to have a more painful manabase to do it. Since all of my black lands also tap for blue, your points about Gigadrowse and Cryptic Command are only true in the face of nonbasic land hate like Blood Moon or Fulminator Mage. Outside of those cards, Gigadrowse and Cryptic behave exactly the same in a splash version compared to Mono-U. Choke and Boil are two cards that I've seen maybe two or three times in my past few years of playing the deck, so I don't consider them at all when deckbuilding. Regarding Remand versus Mana Leak, I think that Remand is better for this deck because delaying the opponent and drawing a card is often better than permanently countering a spell, just because of how important it is for us to hit land drops and Howling Mine effects. That said, I think that both are lackluster in a fast meta like the current one, so I don't spend much time thinking about those either of those cards.
EDIT: Sorry FoodChainGoblins, missed your post somehow.
Thanks! We had a brief conversation in the reddit thread but that's about it. I agree that the tough matchups are really tough, but that's Modern for you. I think UW probably gives you the best advantages against Hollow One and Burn, but they still seem hard to win.
It does feel over costed by one mana though.
There are a number of cards in this new set I like for the deck, that is not one of them. It just feels far to costly to do nothing the turn it comes into play, and if you have enough mana to cast it and a timewarp you probabaly are in position to win to begin with.
However this set does have a lot.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.