Its a neat creature, but discounting the bounce and kill in 2 or 3 turns is a bit hasty.
In other news, I wish this deck didnt bring out the salt as much as it does. I cant even play without getting massive hate from people. Its not like most people playing Modern, are playing fair. :[
I tried AV for 10+ games against Jund/Junk. It's only good if I can get it out latest by T2 (too slow otherwise) and the 3 cards draw may whiff. While it's decent, it doesn't suit my style. I will go back to 4x Remand and 3 Opt in my mineless build. Lets see how it goes.
However our guy @seba from the discord placed 30th with a UW version of Dictate Turns. He is active on the discord.
Discord: https://discord.gg/mtk6rfY
However our guy @seba from the discord placed 30th with a UW version of Dictate Turns. He is active on the discord.
Discord: https://discord.gg/mtk6rfY
Hi everyone! I'll try to get a proper writeup soon, but the long story short is I didn't change too much from GP Toronto and finished at a disappointing 8-6 and dropped before the last round.
Definitely want to give a shoutout to @seba for his 30th place finish! Be sure to check out his list on the mothership or on MTG Goldfish too!
Hey guys,
I played UW As Foretold Turns at a FacetoFace 5K Open last weekend. Went 6-3 and finished 33 out of 240 (just missed the money ). This was the list I played:
I was fully expecting to scrub out and hit the side events but the deck was actually good.
Here's a summary of the matches with a few comments:
Match 1 vs Mono White Humans/Souls Sisters Brew (2-0): Opp was relatively new and had no interaction. Terminus and Thing in the Ice were great out of the board 2-0.
Match 2 vs RW Burn (2-0): Opp had a good start but I was able to trade some early Snapcasters with Eidolon and Goblin Guide. Starting comboing off on turn 6 with As Foretold and Exhaustion in same turn. Opponent had bolt and 1 land up, I had 4 life and never needed to crack my fetches. Eventually won after a casting Day's Undoing to get back Snappies and taking about 10 extra turns. Game 2 I kept a mull to 6 with Snapcaster + Thing in the Ice, scry Timely Reinforcements to the top. Thing + Timely + Snap made for a relatively easy game. Helped that Opp drew 5 lands and only 7 spells.
Match 3 vs Jund (0-2): Opp on the play had Inquisition to take Ancestral, then Dark Confidant, then Liliana of the Veil. I drew only Time Warps and Snapcaster. By the time I was looking to Snapcaster, they had a Scavenging Ooze going. Game 2 I mulled to 6 and lost to an almost identical start from the opponent. I brought in Ghostly Prison to slow down Raging Ravine and Bloodbraid beats, it was quite bad vs the Goyf, Confidant, Lili combo that killed me. They basically Junded me out the old fashioned way.
Match 4 vs UR Breach (1-2): This match was odd. Opponent got stuck on 1 land. I took Game 1 easily. Game 2 we both got stuck on 2 lands, but he eventually drew lands 3 and 4 and played Jace while I was pitching to hand size. Game 3 I mulled. He kept a hand with Remand, Jace, Through the Breach. I mulled to 6 and kept 4 lands with 2 Ancestral Vision, then proceeded to draw the other 2 Ancestrals and some more lands. Still think I would've had a chance had he not drawn a second Remand and had the quick Breach + Emrakul.
Match 5 vs Eldarazi Tron (2-1): Best match of the day. Game 1 was easy, he had no tron, no temples and he played Chalice on 1 not 0, allowing me to cast many Ancestral Visions. Game 2 I stumbled and he had a quick TKS into Reality Smasher. Game 3 he had all the hate but not much pressure, Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger's Cage, Warping Wail and Surgical Extraction. He wailed my first Time Warp, then Surgicaled them all. I played an Exhaustion and he surgicaled those away immediately. Stony Silence bought me a ton of time as he drew Ratchet Bomb, Relic and 3 Mind Stones. Long story short, we went to time and I ended up -12ing Jace on turn 5 of extra turns then decking him with Ancestral Vision. I took turns 1,2,3 and 5 of extra turns thanks to a couple of clutch Temporal Masterys.
Match 6 vs Jund (2-0): This time I won the die roll, for the first time all day. Turn 1 suspend Ancestral then opponent played a small goyf and some discard spells taking away my early plays. I draw and play an As Foretold on turn 3 and my opponent plays Liliana of the Veil, then Liliana, the Last Hope. This gives me all the time I need to tick up the As Foretold and start going off on Turn 5. This time I only sideboarded 2 Timely Reinforcements (cutting a couple Temporal Mastery) I was able to chump block a Goyf and hold off a Confidant long enough to go start taking turns. Opponent didn't have any disruption except 1x Inquisition and 1x Collective Brutality. Eventually got there by Cryptic Command tapping down blockers and beating with a Soldier token and a couple Snapcasters.
Match 7 vs Soul Sisters (2-0): Opponent had a proper soul sisters deck and had some good hands but wasn't fast enough to kill me. This matchup seems great and I was very glad to see it this late in the day. I brought in Ghostly Prison, Terminus and Thing in the Ice for Game 2. Probably was more than necessary. 1 Terminus and the game was over.
Match 8 vs Ad Nauseum (1-2): Chalk this one up to inexperience, I went to Cryptic Command bounce his Phyrexian Unlife on his turn 4 end step when he had 6 mana available . He played Spoils of the Vault + Ad Nauseum in response. Bone head move on my part. Game 2 I land an early Stony Silence then just proceed to draw a ton of cards with Dictate of Kruphix and As Foretold in play. As soon as the opponent had mana to combo, I never tapped out. Always leaving up some combination of Cryptic Command, Dispel and Spell Pierce. Eventually, played a Jace and -12ed opponent out. Opponent said it was the Stony that won the game. Game 3 I mulled to 6, kept a 2 lander with 1 Dispel. Never drew a third land and opponent had 2 Lotus Blooms on turn 1 to combo off turn 4 with Pact of Negation backup.
Match 9 vs BR Hollow One (2-0): On the play for the second time all day. Opponent's start was good but there was no turn 1 Hollow One. He got me pretty low using Gurmag + Phoenix but then I chained Exhaustion into Time Warp into many more turns and some snapcaster beats. Game 2 I drew a clutch Ghostly Prison to stifle his attacks with Flameblade Adept as he had to choose between attacks or casting spells. A flipped Thing in the Ice sealed the deal. Really this was the only time Ghostly Prison was good all day.
Basically, I was impressed by how much game the deck had. And man is it ever fun, though I was absolutely exhausted after playing it for 9 rounds. The opponent's reactions alone made it worth it. You do have to play pretty fast. If you're new to the deck, I recommend some practice with remembering upkeep and draw triggers. And there are some less intuitive lines that do come up like bouncing Snapcaster with Jace to flashback a Time Warp or bouncing Tolaria West with Cryptic to transmute for another Ancestral, or +2ing Jace on yourself (not your opponent!) right away when you are taking extra turns.
I was most surprised by how good Search for Azcanta was, draw filtering early, then just being an extra land in the midgame. I activated it once or twice but those games were basically over by that point. The deck really suffers from not doing much on turn 2 and falling behind as a result, so Azcanta helps a little there. I'll be looking to try Remand, Howling Mine and maybe some other options (Ratchet Bomb, Path to Exile?) on this front.
I think it is totally reasonable to play a mix of As Foretold and Dictates/Mines. The first change I wanted after the tourney was to add a second Dictate of Kruphix in place of the 4th Temporal Mastery. You really need to have one these engine cards on turn 3 if you want the deck to fire on all cylinders. The longer you take to get one online the harder it gets to win.
I drew so many Temporal Masterys in opening hands, on turn 2, and off of Serum Visions/Opt. It never feels good. I would like to see if trimming Mastery leaves the deck functional or not. I was frequently cutting them for sideboarded games and had plenty of success without them. Only once did a "Miracle" Temporal Mastery actually swing a game for me. Whereas I had to mulligan more than a couple hands with 1-2 Temporal Mastery and no early action.
Out of the board I was underwhelmed by Ghostly Prison. Though I basically dodged the matchups where I think Prison might actually be good (ie. Humans, Merfolk, Pyromancer).
I think Engineered Explosives is the card I most wished I had in my 75, followed by Spell Snare. EE might be worth a slot in the main deck. Seems like the best cards against Humans and Bogles, which I never faced, but which were all over the place. Plus you can tutor it with Tolaria West. Though it is a non-bo with Stony Silence. Anyway, sorry this comment got waaay out of hand. Hopefully I said something useful in there.
Out of the board I was underwhelmed by Ghostly Prison. Though I basically dodged the matchups where I think Prison might actually be good (ie. Humans, Merfolk, Pyromancer).
I used to play UW with Ghostly Prison in the board back when Dredge was much bigger, and it only felt good against decks that ran on extremely few lands and powered out numerous threats. Against decks like Infect or Jund, they would just have an extra 2 or 4 mana to spare and be able to kill you anyway.
I think Engineered Explosives is the card I most wished I had in my 75, followed by Spell Snare. EE might be worth a slot in the main deck. Seems like the best cards against Humans and Bogles, which I never faced, but which were all over the place. Plus you can tutor it with Tolaria West.
That actually sounds amazing, especially the tutoring part. Definitely worth trying out!
Hey everyone, I'm new to the deck and I was wondering what the consensus of the forum is to the best version? Is it mono blue/or color splash?
I really like the As Foretold version but it does feel slow to win as opposed to just using Part the Waterveil Awoken
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There are a lot of options and opinions. What the deck does is fundamentally very strong, especially if the format slows down a bit.
I dont know that there is a consensus on what the best version is, but I've tried Uw, Ub, Ur, Foretold, and AV driven versions, and I'm still on Mono U, as the best (for me).
This isnt a full 75, but its what I have felt for over a year (maybe?) is core.
How do we feel about Savor the Moment with As Foretold? I feel like running 1-2 of them would allow us to consistently hit our turns by using the As Foretold and would let us use our mana more efficiently right?
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I've never tried it, but I wasn't big on the As Foretold version, it never saved a game for me, just felt like something that allows for a win once you are in control and winning.
Good to know! Thank you for all of your replies! I am so excited to start playing this deck. I really do like the mono blue version running gigadrwose mainboard as well.. Feels more sleek haha
Do you run the several "draw a card" lands that most of the other lists are running? I am thinking of just running Mikokoro for now and just islands.. I don't have many people in my area running Choke as a sideboard option so I don't really have to go crazy with Oboro or other non-island lands
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Yes, Mikokoro, and for awhile and I still in Paper for some reason, I had Geier Reach Sanitarium I know some people dont like Geier, because you are not up a card, but its the dig for THAT card, that matters.
In other news, I wish this deck didnt bring out the salt as much as it does. I cant even play without getting massive hate from people. Its not like most people playing Modern, are playing fair. :[
Spirits
No harm trying. If it fails, back to Titi.
Btw, how do you guys deal with Jund? Their removals are hit to deal with when we cant get a card draw engine doing.
Spirits
I'm thinking of splashing red for Lightning Bolt, Pyrcoclasm and Blood Moon. Or white for Ghostly Prison and Supreme Verdict. If I stay mono-blue I'm considering Gut Shot, Gigadrowse and/or Torpor Orb along with [obviously] Thing in the Ice.
I'm certainly more comfortable with it, and no build has ever really convinced me its better.
Just a preference thing?
Spirits
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
Thanks!
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
Could you link me the reddit page? I can't seem to find it :/
Modern
UGWRB Humans
G Mono-Green Tron
UWBR Ad Nauseam
Nothing posted yet.
Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/TurnsMTG/
However our guy @seba from the discord placed 30th with a UW version of Dictate Turns. He is active on the discord.
Discord: https://discord.gg/mtk6rfY
Hi everyone! I'll try to get a proper writeup soon, but the long story short is I didn't change too much from GP Toronto and finished at a disappointing 8-6 and dropped before the last round.
Definitely want to give a shoutout to @seba for his 30th place finish! Be sure to check out his list on the mothership or on MTG Goldfish too!
My list:
2x Howling Mine
4x Dictate of Kruphix
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Time Walks
4x Time Warp
3x Temporal Mastery
2x Part the Waterveil
Other Spells
4x Serum Visions
4x Gigadrowse
3x Fatal Push
1x Collective Brutality
2x Snapcaster Mage
3x Exhaustion
2x Cryptic Comand
1x Commandeer
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand
8x Island
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Watery Grave
2x Sunken Hollow
3x Drowned Catacomb
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
2x Gemstone Caverns
2x Thoughtsieze
1x Collective Brutality
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Commandeer
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Search for Azcanta
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Thing in the Ice
I played UW As Foretold Turns at a FacetoFace 5K Open last weekend. Went 6-3 and finished 33 out of 240 (just missed the money ). This was the list I played:
2x Field of Ruin
4x Flooded Strand
2x Glacial Fortress
1x Hallowed Fountain
7x Island
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Plains
1x Scalding Tarn
3x Tolaria West
Planeswalker (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creature (3)
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Ancestral Vision
1x Day's Undoing
3x Exhaustion
1x Living End
4x Temporal Mastery
4x Serum Visions
4x Time Warp
Enchantment (6)
4x As Foretold
1x Dictate of Kruphix
1x Search for Azcanta
Instant (7)
2x Cryptic Command
4x Opt
2x Stony Silence
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Terminus
2x Thing in the Ice
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Spell Pierce
1x Dispel
Here's a summary of the matches with a few comments:
Match 1 vs Mono White Humans/Souls Sisters Brew (2-0): Opp was relatively new and had no interaction. Terminus and Thing in the Ice were great out of the board 2-0.
Match 2 vs RW Burn (2-0): Opp had a good start but I was able to trade some early Snapcasters with Eidolon and Goblin Guide. Starting comboing off on turn 6 with As Foretold and Exhaustion in same turn. Opponent had bolt and 1 land up, I had 4 life and never needed to crack my fetches. Eventually won after a casting Day's Undoing to get back Snappies and taking about 10 extra turns. Game 2 I kept a mull to 6 with Snapcaster + Thing in the Ice, scry Timely Reinforcements to the top. Thing + Timely + Snap made for a relatively easy game. Helped that Opp drew 5 lands and only 7 spells.
Match 3 vs Jund (0-2): Opp on the play had Inquisition to take Ancestral, then Dark Confidant, then Liliana of the Veil. I drew only Time Warps and Snapcaster. By the time I was looking to Snapcaster, they had a Scavenging Ooze going. Game 2 I mulled to 6 and lost to an almost identical start from the opponent. I brought in Ghostly Prison to slow down Raging Ravine and Bloodbraid beats, it was quite bad vs the Goyf, Confidant, Lili combo that killed me. They basically Junded me out the old fashioned way.
Match 4 vs UR Breach (1-2): This match was odd. Opponent got stuck on 1 land. I took Game 1 easily. Game 2 we both got stuck on 2 lands, but he eventually drew lands 3 and 4 and played Jace while I was pitching to hand size. Game 3 I mulled. He kept a hand with Remand, Jace, Through the Breach. I mulled to 6 and kept 4 lands with 2 Ancestral Vision, then proceeded to draw the other 2 Ancestrals and some more lands. Still think I would've had a chance had he not drawn a second Remand and had the quick Breach + Emrakul.
Match 5 vs Eldarazi Tron (2-1): Best match of the day. Game 1 was easy, he had no tron, no temples and he played Chalice on 1 not 0, allowing me to cast many Ancestral Visions. Game 2 I stumbled and he had a quick TKS into Reality Smasher. Game 3 he had all the hate but not much pressure, Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger's Cage, Warping Wail and Surgical Extraction. He wailed my first Time Warp, then Surgicaled them all. I played an Exhaustion and he surgicaled those away immediately. Stony Silence bought me a ton of time as he drew Ratchet Bomb, Relic and 3 Mind Stones. Long story short, we went to time and I ended up -12ing Jace on turn 5 of extra turns then decking him with Ancestral Vision. I took turns 1,2,3 and 5 of extra turns thanks to a couple of clutch Temporal Masterys.
Match 6 vs Jund (2-0): This time I won the die roll, for the first time all day. Turn 1 suspend Ancestral then opponent played a small goyf and some discard spells taking away my early plays. I draw and play an As Foretold on turn 3 and my opponent plays Liliana of the Veil, then Liliana, the Last Hope. This gives me all the time I need to tick up the As Foretold and start going off on Turn 5. This time I only sideboarded 2 Timely Reinforcements (cutting a couple Temporal Mastery) I was able to chump block a Goyf and hold off a Confidant long enough to go start taking turns. Opponent didn't have any disruption except 1x Inquisition and 1x Collective Brutality. Eventually got there by Cryptic Command tapping down blockers and beating with a Soldier token and a couple Snapcasters.
Match 7 vs Soul Sisters (2-0): Opponent had a proper soul sisters deck and had some good hands but wasn't fast enough to kill me. This matchup seems great and I was very glad to see it this late in the day. I brought in Ghostly Prison, Terminus and Thing in the Ice for Game 2. Probably was more than necessary. 1 Terminus and the game was over.
Match 8 vs Ad Nauseum (1-2): Chalk this one up to inexperience, I went to Cryptic Command bounce his Phyrexian Unlife on his turn 4 end step when he had 6 mana available . He played Spoils of the Vault + Ad Nauseum in response. Bone head move on my part. Game 2 I land an early Stony Silence then just proceed to draw a ton of cards with Dictate of Kruphix and As Foretold in play. As soon as the opponent had mana to combo, I never tapped out. Always leaving up some combination of Cryptic Command, Dispel and Spell Pierce. Eventually, played a Jace and -12ed opponent out. Opponent said it was the Stony that won the game. Game 3 I mulled to 6, kept a 2 lander with 1 Dispel. Never drew a third land and opponent had 2 Lotus Blooms on turn 1 to combo off turn 4 with Pact of Negation backup.
Match 9 vs BR Hollow One (2-0): On the play for the second time all day. Opponent's start was good but there was no turn 1 Hollow One. He got me pretty low using Gurmag + Phoenix but then I chained Exhaustion into Time Warp into many more turns and some snapcaster beats. Game 2 I drew a clutch Ghostly Prison to stifle his attacks with Flameblade Adept as he had to choose between attacks or casting spells. A flipped Thing in the Ice sealed the deal. Really this was the only time Ghostly Prison was good all day.
I was most surprised by how good Search for Azcanta was, draw filtering early, then just being an extra land in the midgame. I activated it once or twice but those games were basically over by that point. The deck really suffers from not doing much on turn 2 and falling behind as a result, so Azcanta helps a little there. I'll be looking to try Remand, Howling Mine and maybe some other options (Ratchet Bomb, Path to Exile?) on this front.
I think it is totally reasonable to play a mix of As Foretold and Dictates/Mines. The first change I wanted after the tourney was to add a second Dictate of Kruphix in place of the 4th Temporal Mastery. You really need to have one these engine cards on turn 3 if you want the deck to fire on all cylinders. The longer you take to get one online the harder it gets to win.
I drew so many Temporal Masterys in opening hands, on turn 2, and off of Serum Visions/Opt. It never feels good. I would like to see if trimming Mastery leaves the deck functional or not. I was frequently cutting them for sideboarded games and had plenty of success without them. Only once did a "Miracle" Temporal Mastery actually swing a game for me. Whereas I had to mulligan more than a couple hands with 1-2 Temporal Mastery and no early action.
Out of the board I was underwhelmed by Ghostly Prison. Though I basically dodged the matchups where I think Prison might actually be good (ie. Humans, Merfolk, Pyromancer).
I think Engineered Explosives is the card I most wished I had in my 75, followed by Spell Snare. EE might be worth a slot in the main deck. Seems like the best cards against Humans and Bogles, which I never faced, but which were all over the place. Plus you can tutor it with Tolaria West. Though it is a non-bo with Stony Silence. Anyway, sorry this comment got waaay out of hand. Hopefully I said something useful in there.
Magus_of_Farts, thanks for the report!
So does LSV. I think this is a reasonable direction to take the deck.
I used to play UW with Ghostly Prison in the board back when Dredge was much bigger, and it only felt good against decks that ran on extremely few lands and powered out numerous threats. Against decks like Infect or Jund, they would just have an extra 2 or 4 mana to spare and be able to kill you anyway.
That actually sounds amazing, especially the tutoring part. Definitely worth trying out!
I really like the As Foretold version but it does feel slow to win as opposed to just using Part the Waterveil Awoken
I dont know that there is a consensus on what the best version is, but I've tried Uw, Ub, Ur, Foretold, and AV driven versions, and I'm still on Mono U, as the best (for me).
This isnt a full 75, but its what I have felt for over a year (maybe?) is core.
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Inkmoth Nexus
18 Island
//Spells
4 Serum Visions
2 Remand
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Cryptic Command
3 Exhaustion
4 Gigadrowse
2 Dispel
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Howling Mine
4 Dictate of Kruphix
//Turns
4 Time Warp
4 Temporal Mastery
2 Part the Waterveil
3 Thing in the Ice
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Spellskite
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Spell Snare
I have the following as well right now.
1 Temporal Trespass
2 Ancestral Vision
1 Search for Azcanta
I'm playing around with a few things though Snare in the main instead, 2 Howling, 2 Azcanta, stuff like that.
Spirits
Spirits
Do you run the several "draw a card" lands that most of the other lists are running? I am thinking of just running Mikokoro for now and just islands.. I don't have many people in my area running Choke as a sideboard option so I don't really have to go crazy with Oboro or other non-island lands
Spirits