That card is definitely not gonna make the cut. The decks biggest weakness is not being unable to kill the opponent; it is winning without sticking a Sram or Paladin. We also play no removal, so to swing with it would only be good if the opponent's board is empty. A cmc of 2 is also costly, as it competes for an engine spot without actually being an engine. Riddlesmith or the scry bird would be better, but riddlesmith needs [ovalchase daredevil].
I'm testing with three different versions of cheerios right now. They all share the same 53 "core" cards, with the 7 flex spots being changed.
Protection:
4 Swan Song
1 Echoing Truth
1 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Hurkyl's Recall
Black w/ Bob:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
After playing some more on MTGO and looking at the lists that have 5-0'd recently, I've come to several conclusions.
As much as I love serum visions, I don't think it's the right card. It increases our base consistency, but doesn't assist with winning through disruption. Most recent 5-0 lists have dropped them to 2, going up to 4 repeal.
Protection of some sort is required. We need a way to beat a single lightning bolt that doesn't require drawing 2 copies of a card that we run 8 of total in the deck. Cheerios gets a lot of free wins from the opponent tapping out on turn 2 because they don't know we are cheerios. While these are key and will continue to exist, during later rounds of tournaments the jig will be up. I had this problem on day 2 of GP portland when I lost 3 matches vs spirits in a row. Admittedly I got really unlucky with my draws, but they good players were holding up mana for turn 2 spell quellers, and mulliganing to path to exile.
Swan Song is the nuts. I am almost never sad to see it in my hand. In addition to protecting us, being able to snipe an ancient stirrings or a manamorphose is a huge tempo swing that can buy us the 1-2 turns we need to win.
With that said, I'm trying those 3 lists, and will report back. If one of them ends up working really well, I will try streaming another league.
Odd, I think AA is by far the best build for 4 of the flex spots. AA increases my combo potential drastically. I do agree though that the new one isn’t where we want to be.
Odd, I think AA is by far the best build for 4 of the flex spots. AA increases my combo potential drastically. I do agree though that the new one isn’t where we want to be.
I agree that on paper AA looks to be just what this deck is missing. And when I first picked up cheerios, it was a 4 of that I was very happy with. I wound up cutting it, and never missed it. I think there are two main problems with AA. The first is that if it is dropped on turn 1, the jig is likely up, and the opponent will know we are cheerios. This will discourage the opponent from tapping out on their turn 2, which is how we win 80% of our game 1's. It helps to address the problem of our fizzle rate, but I don't see that as a major problem. If we fizzle we have already drawn many cards, and likely found another engine or something else useful. AA does little to help with protecting Sram/paladin, and doesn't prevent us from losing to a lightning bolt or a thoughtseize. If the goal is raw speed though, I think AA is a great choice.
Came here also to say that Saheeli looks very promising. She can even copy Puresteel...
To go further ... I really believe this card makes us much more resilient. The static ability protects her very well against most creatures, her card type protects her against most forms of removal, she can turn equipment into Mox Opal to ramp us further, making her effectively cost 2 (although we have to sac the bouncable mox she at least prevents us from fizzling). All in all we don't want to bounce our Thopters with Retract if we can't help it, but she allows us to play a second strategy while not actually hurting our ability to go off.
That said it would be better to play one of our engine creatures on turn 3 with Swan Song protection instead of playing her... but I can also imagine her in a deck that relies heavier on Ghirapur Aether Grid.
I mean, when we have 4 or 5 equipments on a creature, we can double our life and swing for more than 10... It's on color and provides us a beat down plan.
I will consider it for sideboard and maybe a one-of main!
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Modern: BBB Mono Black Aggro ControlBBB WUR Cheeri0s WUR RB Hollow One RB RG Vexing Pelt RG
Finding room for a playset of Serum Powder in that Rugged Prairie/SSG list would be amazing!
Well I sleeved up my old RP + SSG list and modified with 1 Grapeshot and 1 Noxious Revival and a playset of Serum Powder. I gold-fished for a couple of hours and wasn't impressed. The new mulligan run does make Serum Powder better, but not wow this is a new reality better. The lack of cantrips is punishing; with the SSG's & SP's in the list there just isn't enough room for cantrips and also I found that having blue mana when you need it can be troublesome. I was only able to run 19 equipment and I found I was even wanting to pull another one for a Leave/Chance because finding Retract without a 5th effect was sometimes tough. I'm not going to post the list right now but I would discourage anyone who was considering going back to Serum Powder because of the new mulligan rule. I was able to drop a creature on turn 1 a lot but I never got there, and often the next several turns were miserable after fizzling.
What do you guys think of Teferi, Time Raveler, Frank Karsten wrote an article about it and a lot of his points also apply to Cheerios: It stops interaction when we want to go off, it can remove a piece of disruption from the field with his -3 and he can even let us cast Grapeshot on our opponents turn (yeah thats just cute)
Potentially Teferi is indeed a good piece to use in Cheeri0s, but he has 3 big downsides imo.
1. We have only 15 lands. Playing a 3 drop on turn 3 isn't always possible.
2. He doesn't do much inside the combo turn itself and only might help to set up the combo with his -3.
3. He can be killed in the meantime after we played him and we don't have many ways to defend him.
Positive:
1. He defends himself with the -3.
2. Most importantly he can get rid of any hindering piece like Damping Sphere, Eidolon of the great Revel and Chalice of the Void.
3. He allows us to go off in response to our opponent tapping out. This way we can put a lot more pressure against control decks.
I want to see him play out as a sideboard tech. Maybe he gets a promotion from there on.
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My decks:
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
The main problem I see with him is not really costing 3 mana... but the fact that you'd have to play him BEFORE paladin/sram... which means you'd combo 2 turns later at the very least.
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That card is definitely not gonna make the cut. The decks biggest weakness is not being unable to kill the opponent; it is winning without sticking a Sram or Paladin. We also play no removal, so to swing with it would only be good if the opponent's board is empty. A cmc of 2 is also costly, as it competes for an engine spot without actually being an engine. Riddlesmith or the scry bird would be better, but riddlesmith needs [ovalchase daredevil].
I'm testing with three different versions of cheerios right now. They all share the same 53 "core" cards, with the 7 flex spots being changed.
Protection:
4 Swan Song
1 Echoing Truth
1 Paradoxical Outcome
1 Hurkyl's Recall
Black w/ Bob:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
All-in clunky:
4 Riddlesmith
3 Ovalchase Daredevil
After playing some more on MTGO and looking at the lists that have 5-0'd recently, I've come to several conclusions.
With that said, I'm trying those 3 lists, and will report back. If one of them ends up working really well, I will try streaming another league.
I agree that on paper AA looks to be just what this deck is missing. And when I first picked up cheerios, it was a 4 of that I was very happy with. I wound up cutting it, and never missed it. I think there are two main problems with AA. The first is that if it is dropped on turn 1, the jig is likely up, and the opponent will know we are cheerios. This will discourage the opponent from tapping out on their turn 2, which is how we win 80% of our game 1's. It helps to address the problem of our fizzle rate, but I don't see that as a major problem. If we fizzle we have already drawn many cards, and likely found another engine or something else useful. AA does little to help with protecting Sram/paladin, and doesn't prevent us from losing to a lightning bolt or a thoughtseize. If the goal is raw speed though, I think AA is a great choice.
That would be an ENTIRELY different deck...
Affinity
GR Eggs GR
UR Storm UR
BR Hollow One BR
WUR Cheerios WUR
G Mono-Green Control G
To go further ... I really believe this card makes us much more resilient. The static ability protects her very well against most creatures, her card type protects her against most forms of removal, she can turn equipment into Mox Opal to ramp us further, making her effectively cost 2 (although we have to sac the bouncable mox she at least prevents us from fizzling). All in all we don't want to bounce our Thopters with Retract if we can't help it, but she allows us to play a second strategy while not actually hurting our ability to go off.
That said it would be better to play one of our engine creatures on turn 3 with Swan Song protection instead of playing her... but I can also imagine her in a deck that relies heavier on Ghirapur Aether Grid.
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/saheeli-sublime-artificer/
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
(eggplant)
https://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/kayas-ghostform/
...Hmmmm...
WUEsper ControlUB
WUCheeri0sRB
BArcane RemedyUBWBW Fateful HourWBBRSuicide ZooWGBRDredge From BelowGUI mean, when we have 4 or 5 equipments on a creature, we can double our life and swing for more than 10... It's on color and provides us a beat down plan.
I will consider it for sideboard and maybe a one-of main!
BBB Mono Black Aggro ControlBBB
WUR Cheeri0s WUR
RB Hollow One RB
RG Vexing Pelt RG
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/128659
Lots of monastery mentors going on
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
1. We have only 15 lands. Playing a 3 drop on turn 3 isn't always possible.
2. He doesn't do much inside the combo turn itself and only might help to set up the combo with his -3.
3. He can be killed in the meantime after we played him and we don't have many ways to defend him.
Positive:
1. He defends himself with the -3.
2. Most importantly he can get rid of any hindering piece like Damping Sphere, Eidolon of the great Revel and Chalice of the Void.
3. He allows us to go off in response to our opponent tapping out. This way we can put a lot more pressure against control decks.
I want to see him play out as a sideboard tech. Maybe he gets a promotion from there on.
Competetive: Lantern Control, MonoR Phoenix, Dredge
Meta-Dependant: Modern Cheeri0s, Esper Spirits, Wilderness Teachings , Modern Elves, All-in Death's Shadow, Aristocrats, BW Death&Taxes
Fun own projects: Spireside Industries, UB Scrapyard, Thundercat Worship, Dirty Kitten, RB Rock, Eternal Toolbox