Really? I am using only 12 enablers + haunted undead and not having much problems, seems the god of mulligan work in different ways all around... My main problem is too many 1 land hands. THe only thing that makes a 1 land hand work is 1 faithless looting and LUCK or 1 faithless looting AND 1 neonate..
Yard utility would be nice, and so would a cost efficient sacrifice outlet that works from the graveyard. Tymaret, the Murder King costs too much to be good.
What kind of rummage spell do you seek? Something that is better than what we already have? Faithless Looting works in the graveyard and is one of our best spells, Tormenting Voice has real explosive power with rummage 1, draw 2. Insolent Neonate is a creature which is actually quite good. You don't have to sacrifice it and can save it and attack/block (then sacrifice) with.
On another note, I might just being cute with this (or rather, I'm pretty sure I am) but would maybe 1-2 Tibalt, the Fiend-blooded be such a bad addition to the deck?
+ He cost RR, draws a card
+ He's a permanent that stays and draws a card each turn
- He does a random discard
- Can't be used from the grave
His two other abilities are so-so.
I tried.... it was a bit awkward. MOST of the times I felt a tormenting voice woudl be better, but sometimes it worked. It jsut feels weird...
A cycle of.... cycle lands... would be amazing and potentially put us over the top honestly. Recurring ability to dredge at instant speed seems like exactly the type of thing this deck would abuse.
Only one Dredge list showed up at Worlds, courtesy of Kazuyuki Takimura. Looks like we're sold on the Loam/Conflagrate configuration. No Bridges or Gargadons to speak of, but there are two Shriekhorns!
Mhmm, I like his take on Modern philosophicaly too. Play a G1 deck, then you've got 2 games to try and get the second win. I've long subscribed to Sam Black's idea of finding the most broken deck that the meta hasn't adjusted too, I think I'll add this clause to my deck choice considerations as well as it makes perfect sense for Modern as a format.
Post Worlds Modern Recap
It was just posted above the 1 dredge list. Interesting that he split the Tormenting Voice and Shriekhorns too.
I've also spent a moment collecting the hate that was present for ease of reference:
Beyond the direct hate, there are definitely shifts in these decks that may reflect a broader meta game recognition that make our life more challenging...
A shift in preferred removal
The shift into White from Jund to Abzan allows for Lightning Bolts to be traded in for much scarier Path to Exiles.
Maelstrom Pulse was also a commonplace singleton in the main, challenging our previous disdain for 1-for-1 removal. Fortunately it is sorcery speed which makes fetchland triggers in the opponents second main all the more important.
Anger of the Gods did not appear to be a preferred method of interacting with wide boards for BG decks, it seems the focus is more proactive with spot removal coupled with Surgical Extraction. This may make an argument for a serious consideration of Memory's Journey. It is still ubiquitous for red decks that aren't Jund.
Decks are going wider
The pros have also seemed to acknowledge that one-for-one removal is no longer the flavour of the day, shifting to wider strategies with their creatures to compliment a concomitant focus on wider removal.
Lingering Souls is the prime noteworthy card, that provides chump blockers and time for opponents to search for wraths + hate. We don't have trample in our decks and may need to consider leaning on Darkblast or Rally the Peasants more if this trend continues.
Other token makes found their way to mains + boards like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar; Elspeth, Sun's Champion; and, Huntmaster of the Fells. These may not all be boarded in against us, specifically. However, their presence in the meta has consequented in other sideboard presences that could cause us problems...
Pingers have been added to lists
Cards like Zealous Persecution and Izzet Staticaster popped up in small numbers. This could problematise our often used plan of running in early damage with Bloodghasts before setting up an alpha strike of 3/3s or an alpha burn.
The days of Narcomoeba's free damage in the air might be nearing an end. I know that previously I could assume an early Narcomoeba to account for approximately 2 extra damage in the air.
Chalice of the Void has returned
I'm sure this wasn't with Dredge in mind, infact it was certainly an accompaniment to Engineered Explosives to foil Suicide Zoo (there was a surprising amount of Engineered Explosives in the main too). However, given that, out of the cards we do want to pay mana to cast, most cost R... this could cause problems for us on the draw. Perhaps this is another argument for Tormenting Voice over Shriekhorn which, granted, doesn't suffer this problem on the play and continues to provide value beyond turn one (unlike Faithless Looting or Insolent Neonate.
This also challenges the usefulness of Nature's Claim as our primary form of hate removal. Abrupt Decay stocks probably stay as high as usual with this new development.
In otherwords, it seemed like the proliferation of direct hate is easing off. In part, because the pros seemed to have acknoledged its ineffectiveness in the 65% of games where you don't get it in your opening hand. However, they seem to be shifted to more interactive methods of hating our specific payoff cards. Plus, an overall shift in the meta could make our plans more challenging to achieve, even if we are not being directly hated on.
The problem I'm having with Collective Brutality is that it adds to Haunted Dead's counter interaction with Conflagrate. If you run 3 Conflags, and at least 3 Loams (which I'm doing and haven't looked back), it's a bit awkward. Especially if you're in a matchup where you need those early Conflagrates to kill needed targets.
I'm starting to think that I might want Raven's Crime in place of the Brutality, slotting an Urborg into the manabase to ensure maximum velocity. Not only does it not take away from the deck, but it's even good in the mirror when you want to reduce that Conflagrate. Plus it helps deal with other combo decks that feel "safe" now that everyone is focusing on hating the graveyard. Just a few thoughts.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Plus there are a ton of 2/x creatures that you can hit with Upkeep: Darkblast X/2, Draw: Dredge Darkblast, M1: Darkblast again.
Postboard, you need to respect both Rest in Peace as well as bringing in some artifact removal to deal with Spellskite which they can often blink to negate your Conflagrates. You only need to learn it the hard way once, but it hurts when you Conf for lethal + 1. The 1 targetting the Spellskite so they can't redirect, they flash in Restoration Angel, blinking the Spellskite which creates a new Skite when it re-enters the battlefield that (being a new creature) hasn't previously been targetted by your Conflagrate thus allowing it to redirect the remainder onto itself.
This is a trick that you need to be wary of against Bant Eldrazi too, fortunately you can see it coming when they have the Eldrazi Displacer on the table.
This being said, the artifact removal is seldom dead as you'll still have the opportunity to hit Aether Vial if they don't find their Spellskite.
It is a tough matchup, but its definitely doable if you realise that your Conflagrates are on boardwipe duty and that Darkblast is the next best card that you want to see in your deck.
How do you find the Bant Eldrazi list post-board...
I think the matchup is slightly unfavoured overall for us (G1 seems 90/10 but post board seems rough). 4 Grafdigger's Cage + 4 Ancient Stirrings seems to be very, VERY, consistent at finding hate before T2 has started for us.
I've been chewing away at this post-board matchup for a few days now and have come up with a left-of-centre line of play that evens up our odds to about 40/60 by sideboarding in Academy Ruins to combo between Engineered Explosives + Life from the Loam. But if there is an easier way to sure up this matchup then I'd really like to hear about it
As it stands for me, I've realised that paradoxically, if our opponent isn't running Rest in Peace (which few Bant Eldrazi players seem to do, thanks to Stirrings), the safest place for our hate is in the Graveyard where Thought-Knot Seer can't touch it. Or, to be an artifact on the battlefield which Eldrazi has 0 current methods of interraction.
So the Plan A is dropping the E Explosives and popping their Cage + Dorks. Go off. Or keep digging for the other hate in the form of Abrupt Decays Plan B, against the T1 Cage. Is to hardcast everyone, prioritising Life from the Loam early to ensure we don't miss landdrops. Chump block away whilst chipping if possible. Be grateful for Stinkweed Imps and Golgari Grave-Trolls as our star blockers and just accept that our Prized Amalgams will have to sit on the bench until turn 6+.
Whilst maintaining our primary plan of filling the graveyard, soon we should mill both an Engineered Explosives plus an Academy Ruins. Life from the Loam the Ruins, flip the Explosives to the top of our library which bypasses Grafdigger's Cage (nothing is entering nor being played from the graveyard/library) and pop the Explosives next turn to return our beats. In essence, we've created a BuildYourOwn Ancient Grudge.
Again, this folds if our oppoent is running & finds Rest in Peace and is problematised by a proactive draw on their behalf or if they don't board out Reality Smashers (which, I haven't met an Eldrazi opponent yet who hasn't). I don't love this plan but it is nice to have a plan that deals with hate that continues to reinforce our main goal... filling the graveyard. But if there is something better than I'd rather know it to save my time in testing.
Yeah, I've definitely been bringing in the darkblasts to try and stymie the ramp.
Hearing how little you and Lantern have been siding in makes me wonder if I'm overboarding and losing too much potency. Alternatively, my opponent playtesting Eldrazi could just be running hot. I've tested post board 18 times in the last two days, in preparation for a WMCQ in 2 weeks and a RPTQ in December, with a 9-9 record (over various SB plans and permutations) and I think I've played 3 of those matches without seeing a Cage before T2 from my Eldrazi opponent. I find it hard to believe just a couple of Abrupt Decays would be adequate if the consistency that I've seen cage hit the table is anything near the norm.
But I tell you what, nothing would make me happier than to learn that I'm wrong and that my experience has been a statistical anomaly!
As for Worship. I didn't realise it until I forgot to board it out one match, but Collective Brutality gets around Worship as its effect is life loss, not damage. Corner case, as I think boarding it out is definitely the right call... just interesting
Is anyone else running bridges and Gargadons or is the consensus that the lack of is better? I've been running 3x of each and doing decent in a pretty diverse/competitive meta in San Diego. Just wanted y'alls input on the upside/downside. I've found overwhelming the board is just so easy with 10+ tokens after you conflagrate your own ghasts and narcomoebas.
Went 4-2 at a PPTQ last Sunday, saw Junk round 1 for an easy 2-0 he hit cage turn one of game 2 but I had kept opening nature's claim. Against bant Eldrazi took game 1 to early nut dredge game 2 he saw his sideboard cards and got there, game three I hit a massive conflagrate on my own board with 3 bridges in the yard making 18 zombies and he couldnt recover from the sick undead beats. Next round was Eldritch evolution, very spicy build packed with yard hate. Main board Anafenza is a real pain. Was able to get there game 1, lost to Anafenza game 2 (saw no conflagrate to deal with her) and game three went down to the wire but a timely conflagrate to his face for 8 got me there. Only losses were to burn. Gnaw to the Bone was there but just couldn't get my mana right.
Thanks mate. Yeah, I've found the Stinkweed Imps and GGTs to be very dependent on timing. If they don't see an Eldrazi Displacer or Drowner of Hope then they're effective... however spending T5 to drop GGT just to see them play a marginally ramped Drowner is pretty much good game.
I just realised, in re-reading your sideboarding reply, that you side out Tormenting Voice... I would've thought that the card draw to dig to sideboarded cards (and just stay on the dredge plan) was too essential to cut. What's the rationale there?
@MisterBlueFalcon
I think the consensus that has been recently reached is it is a trade-off between dynamism and consistency. Gargadons + Bridge is significantly more powerful when they're working together efficiently and everything has gone to plan. However, they are 6 'dead draws' if you're not playing to your A plan and find them later in the game. This is mitigated somewhat by the fact that we generally don't draw one card a turn. Although, if given the choice between a later Gargadon being dredged into the yard and a Conflagrate...
I recently had the realisation that another way of describing this power vs consistency is through the notion of 'win more'. It is easy to see when you're focusing too much on win more in draft if an alpha strike puts your opponent to -18. And we've learnt enough about winning more in this framework to know to draft the cards that help us more from behind and prioritise that part of the Quadrant Theory.
In a sense, this dynamism could also be seen as a win more mentality. Lets be frank, how many G1s do we ever lose with the less explosive but more consistent version of Conflagrate Dredge? 10%ish against any deck that isn't Affinity/Infect/outrace us combo. Generally because our deck blew up and didn't execute its plan (a lack of consistency). With this in mind, being even more explosive is probably just winning more, as we win adequately regularly without the extra power. At least, that's where my thoughts on the matter currently sit.
Havent changed my list since I last posted it, but finding success with it lately. Im pretty easily beating affinity and infect, which was tougher, and dumping on jund. I just beat a thing in ice acsention deck too, with clever conflags. Had him at 11, could conflag for 10. Opted instead to kill his thing, kill my ghasts and hit him for 4 to bring him to 8. He had to have been upset when he cast the anger next turn, and I recurred the ghasts to kill him off.
I'll say it once, and I'll say it a thousand times, Fetches do work in this deck. You dont need gargadon as anger of the gods protection, if you just know when they have it and when they dont, and dont play into it. Its sorta along the same lines of when twin was figuring out if they wanted to use peek or not, and all the pros said "peek is a wasted slot. You should roughly know the cards in hand and what to play around. Peek is a handicap." I feel the same way about gargadon (least when saying its anger or path protection) its a handicap. Learn to not play into it.
I'll keep testing. I'm overprioritising testing Bant Eldrazi as, if there is any deck that people could jump into quickly, its the one where a significant majority of cards come from recent standard or the most recent Modern Masters.
So whilst I don't normally take too much notice of US/International meta shifts, and prefer to read what is happening locally, I actually think this is a deck that could become prolific if people choose to run it (especially since it also has so much overlap with all of the old Eldrazi decks).
So if anyone else has SB or lines of play that make the matchup feel comfortable, then I'd really like to hear it and take into consideration too.
Switched back to non-bridge build tonight 4x Voice 3x Conflag 2x horn 3x loam and it ran beautiful. Went 4-2 with wins over Nahiri Jeskai, Bant Eldrazi, weird thopter foundry sword deck and Grixis Delver. Only liss being to Ad Nauseum in 3 games. Can not say enough how good conflagrate is. Blasted Nahiri for 6 twice, and hit bant Eldrazi in the face for 10.
Has anyone tried Goblin lore?
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I tried.... it was a bit awkward. MOST of the times I felt a tormenting voice woudl be better, but sometimes it worked. It jsut feels weird...
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Haunted Dead
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stinkweed Imp
Sorcery (13)
1 Collective Brutality
3 Conflagrate
4 Faithless Looting
3 Life from the Loam
2 Tormenting Voice
2 Shriekhorn
Land (20)
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
1 Collective Brutality
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Gnaw to the Bone
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Nature's Claim
Modern:
Dredge | Restore Balance | Titanshift
My [360][Unpowered][Modern-Frame] Cube
Mhmm, I like his take on Modern philosophicaly too. Play a G1 deck, then you've got 2 games to try and get the second win. I've long subscribed to Sam Black's idea of finding the most broken deck that the meta hasn't adjusted too, I think I'll add this clause to my deck choice considerations as well as it makes perfect sense for Modern as a format.
Post Worlds Modern Recap
It was just posted above the 1 dredge list. Interesting that he split the Tormenting Voice and Shriekhorns too.
I've also spent a moment collecting the hate that was present for ease of reference:
8 Abzan
Cavalho Main: 3 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage, 2 Surgical Extraction
PVDR Main: 1 Anafenza, the Foremost, 2 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
Manfield Main: 2 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 3 Rest in Peace
Mengucci Main: 3 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb,
Pardee Main: 1 Anafenza, the Foremost, 2 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
Saporito Main: 3 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage, 2 Surgical Extraction
LSV Main: 1 Anafenza, the Foremost, 2 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
Sigrist Main: 1 Anafenza, the Foremost, 2 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
2 Jund
Duke Main: 3 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 1 Leyline of the Void, 1 Grafdigger's Cage
Nelson Main: 2 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, 1 Grafdigger's Cage, 2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Bant Eldrazi
BBD Main: N/A. SB: 1 Rest in Peace, 2 Grafdigger's Cage
Rubin Main: N/A. SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage, 2 Rest in Peace
2 Titanshift
Strasky Main: 2 Anger of the Gods. SB: 1 Anger of the Gods
Tiu Main: 2 Anger of the Gods. SB: 1 Anger of the Gods
2 Living End
Larsson Main: N/A. SB: 3, Slaughter Games, 4 Faerie Macabre
Muller: N/A. SB: 3, Slaughter Games, 4 Faerie Macabre
1 Abzan Company
Yasooka Main: 2 Anafenza, the Foremost, 1 Scavenging Ooze. SB: 1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Affinity
Noorlander Main: N/A. SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt, 2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 BW Tokens
Tao Main: N/A. SB: 3 Rest in Peace
1 Goryo's Vengeance
Watanabe Main: N/A. SB: 3 Anger of the Gods
1 Thing Ascension
Tamada Main: N/A. SB: 3 Anger of the Gods
1 Infect
Turtenwald Main: N/A. SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Scapeshift
Blohon Main: N/A. SB: 1 Anger of the Gods, 1 Slaughter Games
Beyond the direct hate, there are definitely shifts in these decks that may reflect a broader meta game recognition that make our life more challenging...
A shift in preferred removal
- The shift into White from Jund to Abzan allows for Lightning Bolts to be traded in for much scarier Path to Exiles.
- Maelstrom Pulse was also a commonplace singleton in the main, challenging our previous disdain for 1-for-1 removal. Fortunately it is sorcery speed which makes fetchland triggers in the opponents second main all the more important.
- Anger of the Gods did not appear to be a preferred method of interacting with wide boards for BG decks, it seems the focus is more proactive with spot removal coupled with Surgical Extraction. This may make an argument for a serious consideration of Memory's Journey. It is still ubiquitous for red decks that aren't Jund.
Decks are going wider- The pros have also seemed to acknowledge that one-for-one removal is no longer the flavour of the day, shifting to wider strategies with their creatures to compliment a concomitant focus on wider removal.
- Lingering Souls is the prime noteworthy card, that provides chump blockers and time for opponents to search for wraths + hate. We don't have trample in our decks and may need to consider leaning on Darkblast or Rally the Peasants more if this trend continues.
- Other token makes found their way to mains + boards like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar; Elspeth, Sun's Champion; and, Huntmaster of the Fells. These may not all be boarded in against us, specifically. However, their presence in the meta has consequented in other sideboard presences that could cause us problems...
Pingers have been added to lists- Cards like Zealous Persecution and Izzet Staticaster popped up in small numbers. This could problematise our often used plan of running in early damage with Bloodghasts before setting up an alpha strike of 3/3s or an alpha burn.
- The days of Narcomoeba's free damage in the air might be nearing an end. I know that previously I could assume an early Narcomoeba to account for approximately 2 extra damage in the air.
Chalice of the Void has returnedIn otherwords, it seemed like the proliferation of direct hate is easing off. In part, because the pros seemed to have acknoledged its ineffectiveness in the 65% of games where you don't get it in your opening hand. However, they seem to be shifted to more interactive methods of hating our specific payoff cards. Plus, an overall shift in the meta could make our plans more challenging to achieve, even if we are not being directly hated on.
My Builds
W: Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
WB: Karlov of the Ghost Council
WR: Anax & Cymede
WUG: Phelddagrif
Others' Builds that I've Enjoyed
WUB: Chromium
I'm starting to think that I might want Raven's Crime in place of the Brutality, slotting an Urborg into the manabase to ensure maximum velocity. Not only does it not take away from the deck, but it's even good in the mirror when you want to reduce that Conflagrate. Plus it helps deal with other combo decks that feel "safe" now that everyone is focusing on hating the graveyard. Just a few thoughts.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Common 1/x in their list are: Noble Hierarch, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Flickerwisp, Eternal Witness & Blade Splicer.
Plus there are a ton of 2/x creatures that you can hit with Upkeep: Darkblast X/2, Draw: Dredge Darkblast, M1: Darkblast again.
Postboard, you need to respect both Rest in Peace as well as bringing in some artifact removal to deal with Spellskite which they can often blink to negate your Conflagrates. You only need to learn it the hard way once, but it hurts when you Conf for lethal + 1. The 1 targetting the Spellskite so they can't redirect, they flash in Restoration Angel, blinking the Spellskite which creates a new Skite when it re-enters the battlefield that (being a new creature) hasn't previously been targetted by your Conflagrate thus allowing it to redirect the remainder onto itself.
This is a trick that you need to be wary of against Bant Eldrazi too, fortunately you can see it coming when they have the Eldrazi Displacer on the table.
This being said, the artifact removal is seldom dead as you'll still have the opportunity to hit Aether Vial if they don't find their Spellskite.
It is a tough matchup, but its definitely doable if you realise that your Conflagrates are on boardwipe duty and that Darkblast is the next best card that you want to see in your deck.
My Builds
W: Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
WB: Karlov of the Ghost Council
WR: Anax & Cymede
WUG: Phelddagrif
Others' Builds that I've Enjoyed
WUB: Chromium
4x Troll
4x Imp
4x Amalgam
4x Narcomoeba
4x Neonate
4x Ghast
2x Street Wraith
1x Haunted Dead
4x Faithless
3x Conflagrate
2x Loam
2x Collective Brutality
1x Lightning Axe
1x Darkblast
2x Stomping Grounds
2x Blood Crypt
1x Steam Vents
2x Mountain
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Dakmor Salvage
1x Mana Confluence
Side:
3x Nature's Claim
2 each: Abrupt Decay, memory's journey, ancient grudge, gnaw to the bone
1 each: Golgari Charm, Ray of Revelation, Lightning Axe, Darkblast
Here is my tournament report if anyone wants to read it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/513bzi/tournament_reportmodern_1st_pptq_with_dredge/
I think the matchup is slightly unfavoured overall for us (G1 seems 90/10 but post board seems rough). 4 Grafdigger's Cage + 4 Ancient Stirrings seems to be very, VERY, consistent at finding hate before T2 has started for us.
I've been chewing away at this post-board matchup for a few days now and have come up with a left-of-centre line of play that evens up our odds to about 40/60 by sideboarding in Academy Ruins to combo between Engineered Explosives + Life from the Loam. But if there is an easier way to sure up this matchup then I'd really like to hear about it
As it stands for me, I've realised that paradoxically, if our opponent isn't running Rest in Peace (which few Bant Eldrazi players seem to do, thanks to Stirrings), the safest place for our hate is in the Graveyard where Thought-Knot Seer can't touch it. Or, to be an artifact on the battlefield which Eldrazi has 0 current methods of interraction.
So the Plan A is dropping the E Explosives and popping their Cage + Dorks. Go off. Or keep digging for the other hate in the form of Abrupt Decays
Plan B, against the T1 Cage. Is to hardcast everyone, prioritising Life from the Loam early to ensure we don't miss landdrops. Chump block away whilst chipping if possible. Be grateful for Stinkweed Imps and Golgari Grave-Trolls as our star blockers and just accept that our Prized Amalgams will have to sit on the bench until turn 6+.
Whilst maintaining our primary plan of filling the graveyard, soon we should mill both an Engineered Explosives plus an Academy Ruins. Life from the Loam the Ruins, flip the Explosives to the top of our library which bypasses Grafdigger's Cage (nothing is entering nor being played from the graveyard/library) and pop the Explosives next turn to return our beats. In essence, we've created a BuildYourOwn Ancient Grudge.
Again, this folds if our oppoent is running & finds Rest in Peace and is problematised by a proactive draw on their behalf or if they don't board out Reality Smashers (which, I haven't met an Eldrazi opponent yet who hasn't). I don't love this plan but it is nice to have a plan that deals with hate that continues to reinforce our main goal... filling the graveyard. But if there is something better than I'd rather know it to save my time in testing.
My Builds
W: Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
WB: Karlov of the Ghost Council
WR: Anax & Cymede
WUG: Phelddagrif
Others' Builds that I've Enjoyed
WUB: Chromium
Hearing how little you and Lantern have been siding in makes me wonder if I'm overboarding and losing too much potency. Alternatively, my opponent playtesting Eldrazi could just be running hot. I've tested post board 18 times in the last two days, in preparation for a WMCQ in 2 weeks and a RPTQ in December, with a 9-9 record (over various SB plans and permutations) and I think I've played 3 of those matches without seeing a Cage before T2 from my Eldrazi opponent. I find it hard to believe just a couple of Abrupt Decays would be adequate if the consistency that I've seen cage hit the table is anything near the norm.
But I tell you what, nothing would make me happier than to learn that I'm wrong and that my experience has been a statistical anomaly!
As for Worship. I didn't realise it until I forgot to board it out one match, but Collective Brutality gets around Worship as its effect is life loss, not damage. Corner case, as I think boarding it out is definitely the right call... just interesting
My Builds
W: Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
WB: Karlov of the Ghost Council
WR: Anax & Cymede
WUG: Phelddagrif
Others' Builds that I've Enjoyed
WUB: Chromium
Went 4-2 at a PPTQ last Sunday, saw Junk round 1 for an easy 2-0 he hit cage turn one of game 2 but I had kept opening nature's claim. Against bant Eldrazi took game 1 to early nut dredge game 2 he saw his sideboard cards and got there, game three I hit a massive conflagrate on my own board with 3 bridges in the yard making 18 zombies and he couldnt recover from the sick undead beats. Next round was Eldritch evolution, very spicy build packed with yard hate. Main board Anafenza is a real pain. Was able to get there game 1, lost to Anafenza game 2 (saw no conflagrate to deal with her) and game three went down to the wire but a timely conflagrate to his face for 8 got me there. Only losses were to burn. Gnaw to the Bone was there but just couldn't get my mana right.
Thanks mate. Yeah, I've found the Stinkweed Imps and GGTs to be very dependent on timing. If they don't see an Eldrazi Displacer or Drowner of Hope then they're effective... however spending T5 to drop GGT just to see them play a marginally ramped Drowner is pretty much good game.
I just realised, in re-reading your sideboarding reply, that you side out Tormenting Voice... I would've thought that the card draw to dig to sideboarded cards (and just stay on the dredge plan) was too essential to cut. What's the rationale there?
@MisterBlueFalcon
I think the consensus that has been recently reached is it is a trade-off between dynamism and consistency. Gargadons + Bridge is significantly more powerful when they're working together efficiently and everything has gone to plan. However, they are 6 'dead draws' if you're not playing to your A plan and find them later in the game. This is mitigated somewhat by the fact that we generally don't draw one card a turn. Although, if given the choice between a later Gargadon being dredged into the yard and a Conflagrate...
I recently had the realisation that another way of describing this power vs consistency is through the notion of 'win more'. It is easy to see when you're focusing too much on win more in draft if an alpha strike puts your opponent to -18. And we've learnt enough about winning more in this framework to know to draft the cards that help us more from behind and prioritise that part of the Quadrant Theory.
In a sense, this dynamism could also be seen as a win more mentality. Lets be frank, how many G1s do we ever lose with the less explosive but more consistent version of Conflagrate Dredge? 10%ish against any deck that isn't Affinity/Infect/outrace us combo. Generally because our deck blew up and didn't execute its plan (a lack of consistency). With this in mind, being even more explosive is probably just winning more, as we win adequately regularly without the extra power. At least, that's where my thoughts on the matter currently sit.
My Builds
W: Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
WB: Karlov of the Ghost Council
WR: Anax & Cymede
WUG: Phelddagrif
Others' Builds that I've Enjoyed
WUB: Chromium
I'll say it once, and I'll say it a thousand times, Fetches do work in this deck. You dont need gargadon as anger of the gods protection, if you just know when they have it and when they dont, and dont play into it. Its sorta along the same lines of when twin was figuring out if they wanted to use peek or not, and all the pros said "peek is a wasted slot. You should roughly know the cards in hand and what to play around. Peek is a handicap." I feel the same way about gargadon (least when saying its anger or path protection) its a handicap. Learn to not play into it.
I'll keep testing. I'm overprioritising testing Bant Eldrazi as, if there is any deck that people could jump into quickly, its the one where a significant majority of cards come from recent standard or the most recent Modern Masters.
So whilst I don't normally take too much notice of US/International meta shifts, and prefer to read what is happening locally, I actually think this is a deck that could become prolific if people choose to run it (especially since it also has so much overlap with all of the old Eldrazi decks).
So if anyone else has SB or lines of play that make the matchup feel comfortable, then I'd really like to hear it and take into consideration too.
My Builds
W: Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
WB: Karlov of the Ghost Council
WR: Anax & Cymede
WUG: Phelddagrif
Others' Builds that I've Enjoyed
WUB: Chromium
Has anyone tried Goblin lore?