So far no real issues across the field. Despair and rally seem very comparable. Like I said, it seems win more, but stripping someones hand is often winning, but a turn delayed thats all, and often in situations rally wont work. Attack titan shift, drop them to 3, then they win. Attack titan shift, strip their hand completely and them at 10, win next turn. Time walking combo, midrange, control decks IS VERY GOOD.
That being said, rally would be better against stuff like Rdw, Zoo, racing matchups. But rally is also the first card out in those matches anyways for stuff like EE.
I don't have the hive mind amount of games in me so I dont know fine tuned numbers. I cant say despair in the main is correct, or that haunted dead should also fit to maximize, or that it should be a 2 of sideboard. Just that it is good, and there are some games I win because of the card, just like rally. I rarely say a card is good in competitive, so you'll need to trust me on this. Its on the same level of good for flex as haunted dead, scourge devil, and rally.
So while I might not have, by hive minds amount of games, Im talkin' tens of thousands of games, I got a few hundred and that list has worked out for me well enough I havent changed anything in 3 weeks.
While the top 20% are favorable matchups, I would say that there are problems, too.
The first is that 35% of those matchups are hard to strongly unfavored.
The second is that maindeck hate is growing in ways not represented on the charts: Titan, Amulet, all forms of Tron, the BW decks, etc.
finally, because the challenges have been going on a while, the progressing uptick of decks like BW eldrazi, Smallpox, and a few others is probably hidden and shows a smaller percentage than the amount you can expect to face them in leagues. Couple these things with the deck occasionally collapsing on itself, and on mtgo, times for dredge are bad.
I have been playing, of all things, 8-whack goblins to a better record the past four weeks than with dredge.
My biggest surprise here, besides dodging storm and ad nauseam, is the 3-0, 6-0 record against counters company. Post-board, axes and brutalities make things easier, but I have found it to be 50/50 or slightly unfavored personally. Great event for you, congrats.
Hey everyone! I'm interested in building this soon but I was wondering the rationale behind running Haunted Dead. In the lists I do see, it is usually a one of and it doesn't seem to do anything that broken.. Mind you, I have not played the deck so I may be missing something entirely..?
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I prefer to use rally peasants and Driven /dispair nowadays than use haunted dead. Its a slow card, not agressive and the meta change, you need be fast.
Plese guys, i need tips for ad nausean, storm, Eldrazi Tron and Valakut.
i haven't nailed one down since driven was released. I like sodek's and lantern's (I a man partial to 2 blood crypt and 2 gemstone mine, and I can't imagine <4 reunion) even though, like you, I want haunted dead in there, perhaps even more so because of driven. I would start with sodek's and move pharaoh out altogether, playing 3 driven in side and haunted dead main, then go from there.
I've never had an issue with the lack of bloodcrypt. I acknowledge its something I do think about when doing my fetches. The cliffs could be turned into a crypt with no serious downsides. As far as reunion goes. Its just smarter to cut on the 2 drops and not the 1 drops because that messes up the curve, and I really really want 2 brutalities in there right now because of the meta. If that switches Id go back up to 4.
Driven is very good, but like I said, I totally arent good enough or have enough testing to know where it exists in the main/side alongside rally or haunted or devil. I said way back when I was testing the card haunted plus driven could be very right. I dunno. Driven is a pretty good card, thats all I do Shaving a brutaility out of the main (or both if you wanna go back to 4 reunion) from my list and replacing it with a haunted dead would be a good place to be at because both are "1B Discard and get a extra benefit", so more or less, they serve the same function, but the best 'meta benefit"' would be the reason to play it.
Our main differences really lie in the horn vs neonate issue, and Im still firmly in the neonate camp. I'm not above any of the suggestions you listed in terms of mana, reunion or haunted dead.
Eh, I've gotten trophies with 0-4 Neonates. I can't do the probability math to examine whether it is better than Horn. You would have to examine the likelihood of having neonate coupled with thug or imp and the top 4-5 cards having a dredger versus having neonate and only blast, loam, or salvage. Gnaw to the bone, blocks, etc. further complicate the issue. I like horn, but it isn't a hill for me to die on.
Edit: it's shortcut math, but think of it this way: there are three dredgers that tie with neonate if you have them in the same opener: thugs. There are four that are better in the same open: imps. There are 6-7 dredgers that are worse: blasts, loans, and salvages. Further, here are hands without dredgers. Whenever someone does the math, it will be hard to say that neonate is consistently better purely in terms of getting the engine going. Like I said before, blocking and gnaw make things more complicated.
Eh, I've gotten trophies with 0-4 Neonates. I can't do the probability math to examine whether it is better than Horn. You would have to examine the likelihood of having neonate coupled with thug or imp and the top 4-5 cards having a dredger versus having neonate and only blast, loam, or salvage. Gnaw to the bone, blocks, etc. further complicate the issue. I like horn, but it isn't a hill for me to die on.
Edit: it's shortcut math, but think of it this way: there are three dredgers that tie with neonate if you have them in the same opener: thugs. There are four that are better in the same open: imps. There are 6-7 dredgers that are worse: blasts, loans, and salvages. Further, here are hands without dredgers. Whenever someone does the math, it will be hard to say that neonate is consistently better purely in terms of getting the engine going. Like I said before, blocking and gnaw make things more complicated.
Sb options matter too. If you like gnaw you likely prefer neonate.
Speaking of mana, I've been testing 2 gemstone cavern for awhile now and I've really liked it. It def comes up where it's great, doesn't matter, and bad however bad comes up by far the least and when I can t1 a 2 drop like brutality or reunion it can be really good. I've found when I do have it t0 mana is so smooth because I actually have all colors as needed. The deck mulls relatively well so that's what had me intrigued to try it. Don't get me wrong I know most will think I'm crazy but just wanted to throw that out there again.
I actually would like to have a additional Drive//Dispair in the side, taking out the Vengeful Pharao. Evasion+discard is great against other combos and control decks, it breaks their backbone.
I tested 2 driven//despair and omg was it good. Even the front side was amazing. Also again Thursday gemstone cavern was amazing for me! I'm thinking of running a 3rd,but then chances of them as your only two mana sources seems rough,and swapping from claims to fragmentize. 4 gemstone mine and 2 cavern seemed like enough to always have white when I need it. Beat spirits, blue steel, and bant eldrazi lost to burn sadly.
Are there any thoughts/has anyone tested Hollow One or Eternal Scourge to beat grave hate? Hollow one doesn't need to interact with the graveyard and does well with looting, and doesn't die to Anger of the Gods, and Eternal Scourge punishes your opponent for exiling your yard, and becomes truly eternal vs rest in peace. I bet a lot of people would misplay their relics like mad if they saw you dredge past an eternal scourge.
Well, prized amalgams sit in your graveyard until another creature enters. If you fear Ugin, Anger of the Gods, Hallowed Burial, or some other non-graveyard sweeper (terminus, I guess?), then you let them sit there, saying 'no' to narcomoeba triggers. Then on your opponent's second main phase, when you are ready to alpha strike, you activate haunted dead or activate a fetchland to trigger Bloodghast. You may lose the haunted dead, the token, and/or the Bloodghasts, but the prized amalgams enter at the end of turn phase, when sorceries and planeswalkers cannot be cast.
Edit: remember, though, that these matchups also have relics and Rest In Peace. You have to get some pressure down, about seven power I prefer, and then sandbag the rest.
Ran Dredge through a Modern Challenge event at GP Minneapolis yesterday. Finished 3-1 with wins against Gideon tribal, Grixis Death's Shadow, and Eldrazi Tron, and the loss coming against GW Elves with Vizier combo. Driven // Despair was awesome. A combination of how much work it did and the expression on people's faces when they read the effect was well worth it. Never cast Driven, but cast Despair against the Gideon player to discard his last 3 cards in hand and beatdown from there. Against Grixis Death's Shadow, I cast Despair and the menace allowed me to play around a Snapcaster Mage chump block to swing for lethal, though Rally or Scourge would have worked just as well in that situation.
So far in testing I seem to lose to burn the most. My opponent will always have the perfect topdeck when I am one turn away from winning and kill me for exact damage.
I side in +4 Collective Brutality, +2 Nature's Claim, and +1 Gnaw to the Bone in this matchup
I take out -4 Cathartic Reunion, -2 Darkblast, and -1 Conflagrate
So far in testing I seem to lose to burn the most. My opponent will always have the perfect topdeck when I am one turn away from winning and kill me for exact damage.
I side in +4 Collective Brutality, +2 Nature's Claim, and +1 Gnaw to the Bone in this matchup
I take out -4 Cathartic Reunion, -2 Darkblast, and -1 Conflagrate
Is this incorrect?
I wouldn't cut conflag in the matchup. It's pretty strong and valuable to turn 2 or 3 kill a couple creatures, and you don't take damage off Eidolon for it because its CMC is generally huge. Also I feel like cutting Cathartic Reunion slows you down a lot. I'm mainboarding the Collective Brutalities instead of Neonates so I could see siding out neonates. Even though Cathartic is a turn "slower", it does 3x as much work giving you more speed for the card and mana.
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Its a good ideia put 1 ancient in the main deck... in a GP ?
4 Bloodghast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Insolent Neonate
3 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Prized Amalgam
Sorcery 17
3 Cathartic Reunion
2 Collective Brutality
4 Life from the Loam
3 Conflagrate
4 Faithless Looting
1 Driven
Land 20
2 Stomping Ground
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Mountain
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Blood Crypt
Artifact
1 Engineered Explosives
Instant
2 Darkblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Lightning Axe
1 Gnaw to the Bone
Land
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
Sorcery
2 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
So far no real issues across the field. Despair and rally seem very comparable. Like I said, it seems win more, but stripping someones hand is often winning, but a turn delayed thats all, and often in situations rally wont work. Attack titan shift, drop them to 3, then they win. Attack titan shift, strip their hand completely and them at 10, win next turn. Time walking combo, midrange, control decks IS VERY GOOD.
That being said, rally would be better against stuff like Rdw, Zoo, racing matchups. But rally is also the first card out in those matches anyways for stuff like EE.
I don't have the hive mind amount of games in me so I dont know fine tuned numbers. I cant say despair in the main is correct, or that haunted dead should also fit to maximize, or that it should be a 2 of sideboard. Just that it is good, and there are some games I win because of the card, just like rally. I rarely say a card is good in competitive, so you'll need to trust me on this. Its on the same level of good for flex as haunted dead, scourge devil, and rally.
So while I might not have, by hive minds amount of games, Im talkin' tens of thousands of games, I got a few hundred and that list has worked out for me well enough I havent changed anything in 3 weeks.
Someone on Reddit posted all the modern challenge decks with 5-2 records are better. Here is the list:
While the top 20% are favorable matchups, I would say that there are problems, too.
The first is that 35% of those matchups are hard to strongly unfavored.
The second is that maindeck hate is growing in ways not represented on the charts: Titan, Amulet, all forms of Tron, the BW decks, etc.
finally, because the challenges have been going on a while, the progressing uptick of decks like BW eldrazi, Smallpox, and a few others is probably hidden and shows a smaller percentage than the amount you can expect to face them in leagues. Couple these things with the deck occasionally collapsing on itself, and on mtgo, times for dredge are bad.
I have been playing, of all things, 8-whack goblins to a better record the past four weeks than with dredge.
Plese guys, i need tips for ad nausean, storm, Eldrazi Tron and Valakut.
Can anyone talk ? I need tips
Driven is very good, but like I said, I totally arent good enough or have enough testing to know where it exists in the main/side alongside rally or haunted or devil. I said way back when I was testing the card haunted plus driven could be very right. I dunno. Driven is a pretty good card, thats all I do Shaving a brutaility out of the main (or both if you wanna go back to 4 reunion) from my list and replacing it with a haunted dead would be a good place to be at because both are "1B Discard and get a extra benefit", so more or less, they serve the same function, but the best 'meta benefit"' would be the reason to play it.
Our main differences really lie in the horn vs neonate issue, and Im still firmly in the neonate camp. I'm not above any of the suggestions you listed in terms of mana, reunion or haunted dead.
Edit: it's shortcut math, but think of it this way: there are three dredgers that tie with neonate if you have them in the same opener: thugs. There are four that are better in the same open: imps. There are 6-7 dredgers that are worse: blasts, loans, and salvages. Further, here are hands without dredgers. Whenever someone does the math, it will be hard to say that neonate is consistently better purely in terms of getting the engine going. Like I said before, blocking and gnaw make things more complicated.
Sb options matter too. If you like gnaw you likely prefer neonate.
Speaking of mana, I've been testing 2 gemstone cavern for awhile now and I've really liked it. It def comes up where it's great, doesn't matter, and bad however bad comes up by far the least and when I can t1 a 2 drop like brutality or reunion it can be really good. I've found when I do have it t0 mana is so smooth because I actually have all colors as needed. The deck mulls relatively well so that's what had me intrigued to try it. Don't get me wrong I know most will think I'm crazy but just wanted to throw that out there again.
Edit: remember, though, that these matchups also have relics and Rest In Peace. You have to get some pressure down, about seven power I prefer, and then sandbag the rest.
My list for anyone curious:
4x Bloodghast
4x Prized Amalgam
4x Narcomoeba
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Stinkweed Imp
3x Golgari Thug
1x Haunted Dead
Spells (16)
4x Faithless Looting
4x Cathartic Reunion
4x Life from the Loam
3x Conflagrate
1x Driven // Despair
3x Bloodstained Mire
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Copperline Gorge
2x Blood Crypt
2x Stomping Ground
2x Gemstone Mine
2x Dakmor Salvage
2x Mountain
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Collective Brutality
2x Darkblast
1x Gnaw to the Bone
2x Lightning Axe
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
Modern:
Dredge | Restore Balance | Titanshift
My [360][Unpowered][Modern-Frame] Cube
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=115371
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=115359
No huge ground breaking things. Both run scourge devils, 1 runs haunted dead, and one runs a darkblast main.
I side in +4 Collective Brutality, +2 Nature's Claim, and +1 Gnaw to the Bone in this matchup
I take out -4 Cathartic Reunion, -2 Darkblast, and -1 Conflagrate
Is this incorrect?
I wouldn't cut conflag in the matchup. It's pretty strong and valuable to turn 2 or 3 kill a couple creatures, and you don't take damage off Eidolon for it because its CMC is generally huge. Also I feel like cutting Cathartic Reunion slows you down a lot. I'm mainboarding the Collective Brutalities instead of Neonates so I could see siding out neonates. Even though Cathartic is a turn "slower", it does 3x as much work giving you more speed for the card and mana.