Actually in the list I posted above, I don't really need venser to beat leyline. Thragtusk could just use the grave titan loop to make infinite 3/3s and gain infinite life.
Actually in the list I posted above, I don't really need venser to beat leyline. Thragtusk could just use the grave titan loop to make infinite 3/3s and gain infinite life.
He wasn't asking how your list beats Leyline though.
TBH I feel like there are a lot of terrible ideas being thrown around on here...
Putting a bunch of random 5 drop creatures in the deck doesn't make things any more consistent. Jumping through hoops, and using multiple combo pieces to get a 5/5 in play isn't winning any serious games of magic either. Delver can win with a lone 5/5 Gurmag because the rest of the deck is disruption to back it up.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
Actually in the list I posted above, I don't really need venser to beat leyline. Thragtusk could just use the grave titan loop to make infinite 3/3s and gain infinite life.
He wasn't asking how your list beats Leyline though.
TBH I feel like there are a lot of terrible ideas being thrown around on here...
Putting a bunch of random 5 drop creatures in the deck doesn't make things any more consistent. Jumping through hoops, and using multiple combo pieces to get a 5/5 in play isn't winning any serious games of magic either. Delver can win with a lone 5/5 Gurmag because the rest of the deck is disruption to back it up.
pact of negation and izzet charm are not perfect means of protecting 5/5s, but for instance considering the set back woodfall primus does to someones mana base they are effective.
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on another note it was funny in a game today I had ashen rider in the graveyard and I sequenceded the combo like I would for a titan, but instead copied rider and exiled my opponents entire field!
it was fun, but I would rate the situation as "over win" since he had no interaction with the combo.
Actually in the list I posted above, I don't really need venser to beat leyline. Thragtusk could just use the grave titan loop to make infinite 3/3s and gain infinite life.
He wasn't asking how your list beats Leyline though.
TBH I feel like there are a lot of terrible ideas being thrown around on here...
Putting a bunch of random 5 drop creatures in the deck doesn't make things any more consistent. Jumping through hoops, and using multiple combo pieces to get a 5/5 in play isn't winning any serious games of magic either. Delver can win with a lone 5/5 Gurmag because the rest of the deck is disruption to back it up.
pact of negation and izzet charm are not perfect means of protecting 5/5s, but for instance considering the set back woodfall primus does to someones mana base they are effective.
Pact of Negation looks like a perfect way to protect the combo since it allows you to tap-out for the combo. The only thing it doesn't prevent is the GY hate but you can get around that with SB answers.
If you need a way to beat Leyline the primer has already established a perfectly reasonable way to do so.
It's easier to beat someone exiling all your lands than it is to beat someone looping Fanatics. For example, hold a Mountain + Lava Spike + your face = good job exiling all my lands.
The combo package is tight and efficient. If this deck gets altered to be "more efficient/powerful" it'll be in the dig+ramp package.
If you've followed the discussion, Ashen Rider and Woodfall Primus works as additional payoff cards that you can reanimate when you don't find Hulk. Venser, Shaper Savant is not a payoff card.
I think primus is a pretty effective alternative hulk and is pretty capable of winning games vs some decks. Angler is really just something I'm considering since we can get it out so early but it would only be good in certain match ups. Hence why they are in the sideboard. Also if you count body double, the list has 10 ways to reanimate so chances are the first primus (if you don't just see hulk) would slow the opponent down enough to find another, or a hulk, or a thragtusk.
After testing a few different things I find primus to be the best option for adding consistency to the deck. Gifts is a bit too slow but possible and summoner's pact has some consistency issues. Thragtusk, Angler and aetherling are all flex spots for sure. So far of them I'm really liking Thragtusk as he provides a decent backup plan, life gain and also an out to leyline that doesn't require anything from the sideboard.
All of this being said, I would still recommend newcomers to the deck to stick with the standard list until I've been able to do more testing.
Also I was aware he wasn't asking about my list for the leyline question. I wasn't saying the Thragtusk line in response to it. I had just realized that the venser was fairly unnecessary in the board on mine due to Thragtusk already being a main deck answer.
Round 1 vs. Grixis Midrange. He usually plays Grixis Delver, so I put him on that. But he didn't play anything for a while until he tapped a Swamp for Tasigur, the Golden Fang. He left 4 mana up. I go for Footsteps of the Goryo, which he Remands. I let it happen because I fear that I will lose to my own Pact of Negation trigger. Next turn, I go for it and he does Snapcaster Mage/Remand again. I do Pact of Negation and win. He scooped, so I didn't get experience doing the loop (since I last played this deck just a bit near the beginning of Modern) In the next game, I wait until I have double Pact of Negation. He only has 1 Mana Leak, so Footsteps wins it again. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Junk Midrange. This guy won a soft PPTQ that I was unable to attend, but I've been something like 8-0 vs. him lifetime. It changed tonight. I win game 1 on turn 3 after setting it up with Taigam's Scheming on turn 2. That card is TOO good in this deck. In the next game, he does turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage. I can't get around this and draw 3 Footsteps of the Goryo out of 4 draws after already having Makeshift Mannequin in hand to begin the game. He also played turn 3, 4, and 5 Fulminator Mage, which kept me from casting Slaughter Pact on his Tarmogoyf. I never got over 2 lands in play, although I turn 2 Taigam's Scheming and threw 4 lands. I was unprepared for his singleton Grafdigger's Cage and triple Fulminator Mage, leaving only Echoing Truth as an out. It was my next card. In the next game, I had a punt. He considered what to play on his turn 1, but ended up playing Treetop Village. So I put him on not having his singleton Grafdigger's Cage. He ended up drawing it the very next turn and since I didn't leave up Izzet Charm mana, it resolved and 1 Fulminator Mage and Tarmogoyf/Treetop Village killed me. I'm pretty sure that he drew it because it's risky to play it turn 2 instead of 1 when this deck usually plays Thoughtseize. My next card? Echoing Truth again. I was also 1 mana from casting a Body Double on Protean Hulk, which seems decent. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Kiki Chord. I dig, dig, dig, but can't find Hulk and lose. In the next game, I combo off turn 3 on the play. In the last game, I nearly punt by allowing him to take back Path to Exile on my Mannequined Hulk, but I had Slaughter Pact, but needed the Path to be gone because I had some Viscera Seer in the yard. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Burn. There wasn't much to say here. He killed me on his turn 4 when all I could do is exile 2 Simian Spirit Guide to Makeshift Mannequin since I didn't have Footsteps. He attacked through it, getting in 2 damage and then Skullcrack/Bolt to end it. The next game, I mulled a 1 Mountain hand that had Pyroclasm and Leyline of Sanctity. It was agonizing, but I kept a 2 land hand and missed 2 land drops with triple Footsteps in hand and Protean Hulk in the yard from turn 1 Faithless Looting. Easy win for him. 0-2.
Round 5 vs. RUG Twin. This player had never beaten me before in around 10 tries or so. That changed tonight. In the first game, I combo him on turn 3. I was hoping he had double counterspell, but he only had 1 Remand, so 1 of 2 Pact of Negation in my hand went unused. In the next game, he got double Relic of Progenitus by turn 2. So I had to go slowly. I Lightning Axed a Deceiver Exarch when he tapped me to 1 mana EoT and then tried to Splinter Twin on his turn. This game too really long and was grindy with creatures (mine being mostly Simian Spirit Guides), but since I was unable to cast a Reveillark because I was missing Gemstone Mine, he eventually Vendilion Cliqued it out of my hand, to which I Slaughter Pacted the Clique. He eventually beat me with double Snapcaster Mage and some Bolts. I drew my Pithing Needle in this game, but there was no Relic of Progenitus to be found. So I just named Deceiver Exarch. He tapped out on turn 4 for Splinter Twin, not realizing that he couldn't tap his Exarch for infinites with P Needle out. So he just kept attacking me and after my turn Faithless Looting and later flashback, I drew NO dig or Reanimation spells for this whole game. In the end, I drew double Body Double and double Protean hulk and got stranded with them in hand and 4 land in play. 1-2.
I finish 2-3, which was a disappointing finish after doing 4-0-1 with Esper Goryo Gifts last week.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
never asked about a leyline anywhere that i can remember. I was talking about the linch pin of the combo viscera seer being shut off.
I thought there might be a means to use Sidisi's Faithful for something since it's 1cc and fits with the hulk trigger next to a 5cc. but haven't found a sequence that works for it.
never asked about a leyline anywhere that i can remember. I was talking about the linch pin of the combo viscera seer being shut off.
I thought there might be a means to use Sidisi's Faithful for something since it's 1cc and fits with the hulk trigger next to a 5cc. but haven't found a sequence that works for it.
You just grab Grave Titan with the Hulk trigger and beat down.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
This deck has so many names (Hulk Footsteps, Footsteps Hulk, Bubble Hulk) I feel that we should settle on just one. Bubble Hulk it is? I personally like Footsteps lol
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Semi-retired Lantern Player. I try to get out to play every once in awhile!
This deck has so many names (Hulk Footsteps, Footsteps Hulk, Bubble Hulk) I feel that we should settle on just one. Bubble Hulk it is? I personally like Footsteps lol
I call it Modern Hulk, because it's a newer interpretation of the old Flash version from Legacy/Vintage and it's a deck in the Modern format.
This deck has so many names (Hulk Footsteps, Footsteps Hulk, Bubble Hulk) I feel that we should settle on just one. Bubble Hulk it is? I personally like Footsteps lol
That's only because most people don't know what they're talking about.
The deck has been called Bubble Hulk for 7 years now. Since back in Extended.
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
This deck has so many names (Hulk Footsteps, Footsteps Hulk, Bubble Hulk) I feel that we should settle on just one. Bubble Hulk it is? I personally like Footsteps lol
That's only because most people don't know what they're talking about.
The deck has been called Bubble Hulk for 7 years now. Since back in Extended.
Many players nowadays were not around for that one. I still remember here on mtgs that someone started the idea (or caught on to it quickly) and a lot of speculating happened. Players like me picked up many copies of the card, Flash. I played the deck in Extended and in Vintage. Such a powerful deck. My friend had a meta deck designed only to beat Hulk, but he was no more than 50% against me in testing, which I guess is good compared with other decks at that time. It was a Mono black discard deck.
Personally I just stuck with the names that I saw since technically it is a different deck - I guess the same concept, but just not as broken cards and enablers.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
TBH I feel like there are a lot of terrible ideas being thrown around on here... Putting a bunch of random 5 drop creatures in the deck doesn't make things any more consistent. Jumping through hoops, and using multiple combo pieces to get a 5/5 in play isn't winning any serious games of magic either. Delver can win with a lone 5/5 Gurmag because the rest of the deck is disruption to back it up.
I'm going back here for a minute because I think it's been overlooked. I also feel there is too many horrible ideas that are turning this from a combo deck based off of speed into a jank reanimator deck. The main goal of this deck is to pitch a Hulk, reanimate and have it die. Instant combo that takes your opponent out without disruption while combo-ing. Adding Ashen Rider, Primus, and all the other suggestions are starting to make this deck into a 'reanimate for value' deck. If we were going that route to make it more consistent, you're diluting the prime focus which is through the combo.I think what this thread should do is focus on an idea or problem and have the community try and fix it.
The first one addressed is the lack of finding a Hulk when you need it.
Solution: testing Gifts Ungiven / Darkblast to see if we can more consistently draw a Hulk turns 3-5.
If we are concerned about SB hate, we should probably list all the different hate cards and see if there is a consistant way to beat it. For example, Leyline of Sanctity shuts off Gifts (yes, it targets), and the 1 dmg from Mogg Fanatic. Solution: Take Mogg Fanatic out and replace with either A. Thopter Engineer or B. Grave Titan (I'm part of team Titan, but just bought a foil Engineer in case my testing proves that Engineer is more effective than Titan).
SB card discussion: Direct hosers of GYs, how to beat them? Are we just relying on Echoing Truth to take care of any non-activated ability GY hate (Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, etc). Activated ability cards (like Scavenging Ooze and Relic of Progenitus can be turned off with Pithing Needle, and can be killed with cards like card]Slaughter Pact[/card] or Ancient Grudge), are already kind of taken care of. We already run SB cards that can combat the basic GY hate cards. What do we do against hardkore GY hate, like RIP and Cage? Do we look to cards like Venser to take them out, or other cards like Destructive Revelry to take it out? It's difficult in Grixis colors to take care of enchantments other than bounce.
So, my final input is this:
I think we'd be more productive if we posted game results (because nothing is more informative than actual game results), and posed specific problems that need answering. Complaining about all the hate in the format, and drastic alterations to the deck aren't helping.
Most hate cards are not found in a MD! So maindecking anything like a Woodfall Primus is just dumb. We have a fast combo deck that people are not really prepared for my turn 3 of game 1. Why you'd be running cards like Woodfall Primus or Ashen Rider in the main, is beyond me. If you are using them for the SB, you have to remember that the most hated of SB cards don't care if you have Ashen Rider, Woodfall Primus or Protean Hulk ready to be reanimated. They stop the REANIMATION to begin with. Cards like Grafdigger's Cage and Rest in Peace. To get rid of these cards, you either need to counter them or kill them. If they're in play already, how the heck are you reanimating Ashen / Woodfall to get rid of the cards? If you're using the two as a way to PREVENT a RiP from resolving by destroying lands... WTF! lol If you're reanimating these cards, why aren't you just reanimating Hulk and winning? Reanimating Grave titan and win on the next attack step? What's the point of leaving a 5/5 trampler in play when you just win with traditional cards? The only one I can think of running that makes sense in the main is Thragtusk. If I'm correct, you can use it like Grave Titan: use 2 Body Doubles and Thrag to loop it, gaining infinite life / tokens. This I can see as an alternate win-con that would be Hulk 5-6. Right now, I'm testing the Gifts Ungiven as Hulk 5-6, but I can see moving that aside and going for a different infinite loop. Only problem with this tactic is that you'd need to have the Thragtusk in the yard, with Reveillark AND Body Double, and actually hard cast the second Body Double. This would generate an infinite loop with Seer out. I actually had that situation one game where I had pitched a Reveillark and a Double to a Faithless Looting, took some damage trying to loot into a Hulk, drew into a second Body Double, played it copying Reveillark. When I blocked, it died, returning Seer / Double into play, sack the Double to get both Doubles copying Reveillark. From there, I was able to infinite sack to scry 1 until I got a Mogg Fanatic on top. So, it's still not as easy as a 4cc Instant that finds a Hulk and throws it right to the GY to be reanimated...
The difference is that with Primus, you can't loop it to win. You can mess around with him to get super value out of him, leaving you with a 5/5 Trampler, but it doesn't win you on the spot, and leaves your opponent with creatures. Sometimes, that's not even an issue and you're gonna win anyway. What happens vs Affinity when they get a turn 2 Etched Champion off of 1 land. Even with killing that one land with Primus and maybe another card like Springleaf Drum, you're still facing a 2/2 pro-green along with most, if not all, of their creatures they played.
Point is, I don't like Ashen / Primus in the maindeck whatsoever, and in the SB, when you want them to kill something specific, is most likely going to be anti-reanimation cards, which you'd need to get them in to play to begin with...
-Yawg
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From void evolved Phyrexia. Great Yawgmoth, Father of Machines, saw its perfection. Thus The Grand Evolution began. — Phyrexian Scriptures
I agree. I think that a Venser in the SB is good against Leyline. Not to mention, it can be played with our colors, with Flash, to remove ANY permanent that's hindering us from comboing out. Not disputing this. I'm actively testing in the SB with 1, and if it works, maybe 2.
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Venser in the board beats leyline.
TBH I feel like there are a lot of terrible ideas being thrown around on here...
Putting a bunch of random 5 drop creatures in the deck doesn't make things any more consistent. Jumping through hoops, and using multiple combo pieces to get a 5/5 in play isn't winning any serious games of magic either. Delver can win with a lone 5/5 Gurmag because the rest of the deck is disruption to back it up.
pact of negation and izzet charm are not perfect means of protecting 5/5s, but for instance considering the set back woodfall primus does to someones mana base they are effective.
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on another note it was funny in a game today I had ashen rider in the graveyard and I sequenceded the combo like I would for a titan, but instead copied rider and exiled my opponents entire field!
it was fun, but I would rate the situation as "over win" since he had no interaction with the combo.
Pact of Negation looks like a perfect way to protect the combo since it allows you to tap-out for the combo. The only thing it doesn't prevent is the GY hate but you can get around that with SB answers.
If you need a way to beat Leyline the primer has already established a perfectly reasonable way to do so.
It's easier to beat someone exiling all your lands than it is to beat someone looping Fanatics. For example, hold a Mountain + Lava Spike + your face = good job exiling all my lands.
The combo package is tight and efficient. If this deck gets altered to be "more efficient/powerful" it'll be in the dig+ramp package.
Waht do you guys think?
After testing a few different things I find primus to be the best option for adding consistency to the deck. Gifts is a bit too slow but possible and summoner's pact has some consistency issues. Thragtusk, Angler and aetherling are all flex spots for sure. So far of them I'm really liking Thragtusk as he provides a decent backup plan, life gain and also an out to leyline that doesn't require anything from the sideboard.
All of this being said, I would still recommend newcomers to the deck to stick with the standard list until I've been able to do more testing.
Also I was aware he wasn't asking about my list for the leyline question. I wasn't saying the Thragtusk line in response to it. I had just realized that the venser was fairly unnecessary in the board on mine due to Thragtusk already being a main deck answer.
Round 1 vs. Grixis Midrange. He usually plays Grixis Delver, so I put him on that. But he didn't play anything for a while until he tapped a Swamp for Tasigur, the Golden Fang. He left 4 mana up. I go for Footsteps of the Goryo, which he Remands. I let it happen because I fear that I will lose to my own Pact of Negation trigger. Next turn, I go for it and he does Snapcaster Mage/Remand again. I do Pact of Negation and win. He scooped, so I didn't get experience doing the loop (since I last played this deck just a bit near the beginning of Modern) In the next game, I wait until I have double Pact of Negation. He only has 1 Mana Leak, so Footsteps wins it again. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Junk Midrange. This guy won a soft PPTQ that I was unable to attend, but I've been something like 8-0 vs. him lifetime. It changed tonight. I win game 1 on turn 3 after setting it up with Taigam's Scheming on turn 2. That card is TOO good in this deck. In the next game, he does turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage. I can't get around this and draw 3 Footsteps of the Goryo out of 4 draws after already having Makeshift Mannequin in hand to begin the game. He also played turn 3, 4, and 5 Fulminator Mage, which kept me from casting Slaughter Pact on his Tarmogoyf. I never got over 2 lands in play, although I turn 2 Taigam's Scheming and threw 4 lands. I was unprepared for his singleton Grafdigger's Cage and triple Fulminator Mage, leaving only Echoing Truth as an out. It was my next card. In the next game, I had a punt. He considered what to play on his turn 1, but ended up playing Treetop Village. So I put him on not having his singleton Grafdigger's Cage. He ended up drawing it the very next turn and since I didn't leave up Izzet Charm mana, it resolved and 1 Fulminator Mage and Tarmogoyf/Treetop Village killed me. I'm pretty sure that he drew it because it's risky to play it turn 2 instead of 1 when this deck usually plays Thoughtseize. My next card? Echoing Truth again. I was also 1 mana from casting a Body Double on Protean Hulk, which seems decent. 1-2.
Round 3 vs. Kiki Chord. I dig, dig, dig, but can't find Hulk and lose. In the next game, I combo off turn 3 on the play. In the last game, I nearly punt by allowing him to take back Path to Exile on my Mannequined Hulk, but I had Slaughter Pact, but needed the Path to be gone because I had some Viscera Seer in the yard. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Burn. There wasn't much to say here. He killed me on his turn 4 when all I could do is exile 2 Simian Spirit Guide to Makeshift Mannequin since I didn't have Footsteps. He attacked through it, getting in 2 damage and then Skullcrack/Bolt to end it. The next game, I mulled a 1 Mountain hand that had Pyroclasm and Leyline of Sanctity. It was agonizing, but I kept a 2 land hand and missed 2 land drops with triple Footsteps in hand and Protean Hulk in the yard from turn 1 Faithless Looting. Easy win for him. 0-2.
Round 5 vs. RUG Twin. This player had never beaten me before in around 10 tries or so. That changed tonight. In the first game, I combo him on turn 3. I was hoping he had double counterspell, but he only had 1 Remand, so 1 of 2 Pact of Negation in my hand went unused. In the next game, he got double Relic of Progenitus by turn 2. So I had to go slowly. I Lightning Axed a Deceiver Exarch when he tapped me to 1 mana EoT and then tried to Splinter Twin on his turn. This game too really long and was grindy with creatures (mine being mostly Simian Spirit Guides), but since I was unable to cast a Reveillark because I was missing Gemstone Mine, he eventually Vendilion Cliqued it out of my hand, to which I Slaughter Pacted the Clique. He eventually beat me with double Snapcaster Mage and some Bolts. I drew my Pithing Needle in this game, but there was no Relic of Progenitus to be found. So I just named Deceiver Exarch. He tapped out on turn 4 for Splinter Twin, not realizing that he couldn't tap his Exarch for infinites with P Needle out. So he just kept attacking me and after my turn Faithless Looting and later flashback, I drew NO dig or Reanimation spells for this whole game. In the end, I drew double Body Double and double Protean hulk and got stranded with them in hand and 4 land in play. 1-2.
I finish 2-3, which was a disappointing finish after doing 4-0-1 with Esper Goryo Gifts last week.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I thought there might be a means to use Sidisi's Faithful for something since it's 1cc and fits with the hulk trigger next to a 5cc. but haven't found a sequence that works for it.
I'm now on 4 Inquisition of Kozileks main and 2 Spell Pierces on the side. Izzet Charm is too slow as a protection spell. Also 3 Pithing Needles.
You just grab Grave Titan with the Hulk trigger and beat down.
I call it Modern Hulk, because it's a newer interpretation of the old Flash version from Legacy/Vintage and it's a deck in the Modern format.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
That's only because most people don't know what they're talking about.
The deck has been called Bubble Hulk for 7 years now. Since back in Extended.
Many players nowadays were not around for that one. I still remember here on mtgs that someone started the idea (or caught on to it quickly) and a lot of speculating happened. Players like me picked up many copies of the card, Flash. I played the deck in Extended and in Vintage. Such a powerful deck. My friend had a meta deck designed only to beat Hulk, but he was no more than 50% against me in testing, which I guess is good compared with other decks at that time. It was a Mono black discard deck.
Personally I just stuck with the names that I saw since technically it is a different deck - I guess the same concept, but just not as broken cards and enablers.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)The first one addressed is the lack of finding a Hulk when you need it.
Solution: testing Gifts Ungiven / Darkblast to see if we can more consistently draw a Hulk turns 3-5.
If we are concerned about SB hate, we should probably list all the different hate cards and see if there is a consistant way to beat it. For example, Leyline of Sanctity shuts off Gifts (yes, it targets), and the 1 dmg from Mogg Fanatic. Solution: Take Mogg Fanatic out and replace with either A. Thopter Engineer or B. Grave Titan (I'm part of team Titan, but just bought a foil Engineer in case my testing proves that Engineer is more effective than Titan).
SB card discussion: Direct hosers of GYs, how to beat them? Are we just relying on Echoing Truth to take care of any non-activated ability GY hate (Rest in Peace, Grafdigger's Cage, etc). Activated ability cards (like Scavenging Ooze and Relic of Progenitus can be turned off with Pithing Needle, and can be killed with cards like card]Slaughter Pact[/card] or Ancient Grudge), are already kind of taken care of. We already run SB cards that can combat the basic GY hate cards. What do we do against hardkore GY hate, like RIP and Cage? Do we look to cards like Venser to take them out, or other cards like Destructive Revelry to take it out? It's difficult in Grixis colors to take care of enchantments other than bounce.
So, my final input is this:
I think we'd be more productive if we posted game results (because nothing is more informative than actual game results), and posed specific problems that need answering. Complaining about all the hate in the format, and drastic alterations to the deck aren't helping.
The difference is that with Primus, you can't loop it to win. You can mess around with him to get super value out of him, leaving you with a 5/5 Trampler, but it doesn't win you on the spot, and leaves your opponent with creatures. Sometimes, that's not even an issue and you're gonna win anyway. What happens vs Affinity when they get a turn 2 Etched Champion off of 1 land. Even with killing that one land with Primus and maybe another card like Springleaf Drum, you're still facing a 2/2 pro-green along with most, if not all, of their creatures they played.
Point is, I don't like Ashen / Primus in the maindeck whatsoever, and in the SB, when you want them to kill something specific, is most likely going to be anti-reanimation cards, which you'd need to get them in to play to begin with...