I played Abzan Counters for the first time in a while. Laplasjan's old list before KCI rose to the top. 20 person MNM.
Round 1 vs. Burn. In the first game, he has the perfect mana curve and Searing Blaze on Druid on his turn 3. He burns enough to get there, despite a Company for a Kitchen Finks and something else. In the next game, his hand is slow and I Chord for Kor Firewalker to complement a Voice of Resurgence token and a Sin Collector that took Boros Charm. Yep, I'm not losing this one. In the final game, I get waaay ahead again and Chord for Kor Firewalker and have some pressure as well with mana dorks and Walking Ballista. I lock him out with his own Eidolon of the Great Revel. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Jund. He made me discard just enough, but I go for Walking Ballista on Bob. Then Goyf and Raging Ravine get me down while I have to put chumps in front each turn. I hope to draw Company, but I don't and he adds Scooze. In the next game, I get E Witness after some discard and dorks get killed. But I go the distance with Gavony Township and some other creatures. In the last game, he gets stuck on 3 land and has 3 Tarmogoyf, but no Green. He drew all of them and I run away with it with double Scavenging Ooze and mana dudes. 2-1. Round 3 vs. Tron. He won the die roll. I had GAS and the turn 3 combo. He minus Karn Liberated on my Druid, so I put it in the bin. He did the same next turn and played another Karn. Then he played Walking Ballistas the rest of the way and I get 2 poor Companies, so I scoop. In the next game, he gets the same Map Tron while my mulligan probably should have been deeper. But had I drawn Druid on turn 2, I combo turn 3. I end up doing a Chord of Calling for Phyrexian Revoker EoT after 2 Walking Ballistas attack me (4/4 and 1/1). I get the Revoker and put it on Ballista while Ugin is on 3 loyalty. I hope to Company into an exalted Bro, but I hit 5 lands and Chord of Calling. GGs. 0-2.
Round 4 vs. Abzan Rites. He kept me off the Combo, but Collected Company into E Witness and Scooze, exiling Unburial Rites before he could flash it back was too much. In the next game, he Thoughtseizes my CoCo, leaving me with double mana dork and 4 lands. I peel some guys off the top and get to work with Gavony Township. He could not beat this card in this game with too many creatures. I kept 3 creatures in hand and then he showed me he drew Languish when my guys were all larger than X/4s from the Township. Them's the beats. 2-0.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It is cute, but strictly worse than Collected Company. Possibly sideboard viable if you see a lot of UWx Control and you can't beat it. Though extra SB Sin Collectors would probably provide enough support.
Coming back to MTG after having been out of the game for a few months. I've polished up my list and playtested a few times with friends. Seems solid overall, but any feedback would be appreciated!
I like your main deck. It is 2 cards, not counting lands, off my current list. Mine is -1 Viscera Seer and -1 Shalai, Voice of Plenty for +1 4th Duskwatch Recruiter and +1 Noble Hierarch. I do play a basic Swamp.
The SB is mostly a meta call and since I haven't played much recently, I'll leave that one up to others to comment on. It looks solid to me. I might bring back Kataki, War's Wage if you expect Whir Prison. Oh damn, you have it!
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I would strongly recommend -1 Birds of Paradise, +1 Noble Hierarch. The exalted is important.
For anyone concerned about Whir Prison, try fitting a Mirror Entity in your 75 (though most people play it main these days). Against most decks, its just nice to turn excess mana dorks into Beastmaster Ascension. Against Thing in the Ice, you can mise by making your team into Horrors. And against Whir Prison, you can attack with your 10+ 0-power creatures under their Ensnaring Bridge lock, then turn them all into big beaters before damage.
I would like to play again devoted compatiny since 1 year ago or more. My deck list seems or will be the same as yours (i like your build, thanks to share it).
Sorry for that question, but i would like to undertand a little better the reasons and responses Mirror Entity will offer in the game (which situacions is good or bad, not only against Thing in the Ice)
Btw, is there any sideguide?
Ty.
Mirror Entity is great against whir prison. You can send mana dorks under Ensnaring Bridge then pump at damage. I think Entity was discussed just a few posts back what other shenanigans it offers. Well worth it. And not new tech, It has been in and out of the 75 prior to Devoted, back when we were Abzan Company.
How does everyone feel about Finale of Devastation that was just spoiled?
XGG
Sorcery
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it onto the battlefield. If you search your library this way, shuffle it.
If X is 10 or more, creatures you control get +X/+X and gain haste until end of turn.
It grabs both combo pieces and can be a finisher. I'll be testing it for sure.
How does everyone feel about Finale of Devastation that was just spoiled?
XGG
Sorcery
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it onto the battlefield. If you search your library this way, shuffle it.
If X is 10 or more, creatures you control get +X/+X and gain haste until end of turn.
It grabs both combo pieces and can be a finisher. I'll be testing it for sure.
At first glance, it makes me sad that Green Sun's Zenith officially has a permanent grave in Modern, but it actually seems fairly sweet. I would love to see testing for this card!
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
The card seems worth trying. Being able to grab a Vizier/Spellskite/RemCleric/Selfless Spirit/etc... with it is sweet, and it works with a Druid on 2 when you miss your third landdrop which has come up often enough for me.
The first thought is to replace Chord as it has the same functionality. It has increased casting speed (marginally) but lacks instant speed, meaning you don't get to EoT search for Druid and untap with 'haste'. Replacing Compnay means you completely lose the backup card-advantage-value plan which should only really be done for the turbo-druid decks. I don't think that will happen.
If you want to go reeeeeeal deep with it you could cut Ballista and Recruiter as this acts as a finisher. You can drop a ton of creatures by chaining EWits and these together to get up to 7 creatures into play, and if they have an EBridge you can get Knight of Autumn to blow it up. You lose some grinding potential of Recruiter, but gain a lot more silver-bullet finding capabilities.
Overall, I think the loss of Instant speed is very rough, and not being able to grab a Dryad Arbor on T1 is leagues worse than GSZ. My hot take is that the deck won't adopt it completely, but may find some happy medium split of 1 of these and 3 Chords or something, for those times when all your Druids or EWits are in the graveyard, or they exile your Ballista and you need an alternate wincon.
I think Finale of Devastation is a strong enough card to consider slightly reconfiguring the deck for. I think it cleanly replaces Coco and doing so loses you all that comes with CoCo. That means your deck can't rebuild after a wipe as quickly.
It also means you no longer have that pesky deck restriction of running X number of 3cmc or less creatures to nearly always get two hits. It also means you no longer need to reduce the number of noncreatute spells you play in order to maximize coco hits.
Coco improved resiliency, but thanks to the reanimate part of FoD that might not be as big a factor.
Hell, without coco in the mix there's no reason not to try cards you'd never previously have used, like the new 2 mana eldritch evolution, planeswalkers, artifacts/enchantment, etc.
Hey i have a lot of thoughts about how the deck may change with finale of devastation, and wanted to discuss on the discord, but the link posted earlier is dead. could someone repost discord link or PM me?
Hey i have a lot of thoughts about how the deck may change with finale of devastation, and wanted to discuss on the discord, but the link posted earlier is dead. could someone repost discord link or PM me?
Is it not basically a 1 for 1 replacement for collected company? With finale of devastation I think I'd like to play more eternal witnesses. And finally Aether vial also, which gets better without collected company.
as was mentioned earlier, once you cut collected company, we can no longer pretend to be a combo deck that can also play midrange. losing coco means losing our ability to win with value, but it also frees up a hefty deckbuilding constriction we had previously. it gives the deck a ton of freedom to go way harder and deeper on the combo as plan A, B, and C. its going to take a lot of testing and theorycraft because i dont think that version of druid combo wont look anything like todays lists
Without CoCo isnt it just Abzan? Then add Goyf and Lily etc? In any event in belongs in Deck Creation or Abzan forums not here. This is specifically for company.
Without CoCo isnt it just Abzan? Then add Goyf and Lily etc? In any event in belongs in Deck Creation or Abzan forums not here. This is specifically for company.
I don't agree with this. Our deck core is based on getting infinite mana via devoted druid and vizier. Collected company interacts greatly with that goal but that's it. It should be considered for a potential swap when new cards are released.
Has anyone tried a list including 4 copies of militia bugler recently? I'm considering putting something together with tidehollow sculler and knight of the reliquary in place of the kitchen finks and viscera seer slots. I've been seeing a lot of U/W control and tron recently and the fink combo just doesn't seem to be good enough against these decks since they have win conditions to defeat infinite life. I've always thought of knight as a slow clunky card without considering how good of a mana creature it can be. Turn 1 dork into turn 2 knight sets us up to have 5 mana on turn 3 if we can hit our first 3 land drops. It obviously is a late game house with it's ability to draw cards horizon canopy, go wide gavony township, or just get huge and thin the deck by grabbing fetches. Militia bugler just lets us grind in an insane way. Any combination or bugler, eternal witness, and collected company let's us go nuts with card advantage and start chains where we can get ahead by 3 or more cards. Tidehollow Sculler is a card that I've found to be great disruption and yet another must kill threat (basically every creature we play at this point). It can either grab removal or counters to secure our combo or can grab opponents combo pieces to buy us some time when needed. This card really strains the mana-base though and that has been my worst complaint about it.
My list is probably bad, but I'm just tossing some ideas around to see if anyone has tried something similar recently. Thing in the ice has been a real problem recently so I'm also curious if anyone has found an effective way to fight phoenix decks other than the 1 of mirror entity which is a card I've been playing for years since it just goldfishes turn 4 or 5 kills through combat pumps.
@wolffman: Your changes for combating your meta sound good. Tidehollow Sculler can fit in the mana base easily. Play a singleton Godless Shrine to get with fetches. If you have Godless Shrine in play, any land that is not a basic forest or Gavony Township can cast Sculler.
As for TitI, Izzet Phoenix is this deck's single worst matchup in the entire format. Your best odds of beating the deck are bringing in all your value from the SB and grinding them out, including recurring your removal (but prioritizing removal on Thing in the Ice). Also, a 2nd Mirror Entity is gaining popularity and is worth testing if you like the first one.
Also, for builds that are light on black, you can splash blue for Deputy of Detention which can help a variety of matchups.
Round 1 vs. Burn. In the first game, he has the perfect mana curve and Searing Blaze on Druid on his turn 3. He burns enough to get there, despite a Company for a Kitchen Finks and something else. In the next game, his hand is slow and I Chord for Kor Firewalker to complement a Voice of Resurgence token and a Sin Collector that took Boros Charm. Yep, I'm not losing this one. In the final game, I get waaay ahead again and Chord for Kor Firewalker and have some pressure as well with mana dorks and Walking Ballista. I lock him out with his own Eidolon of the Great Revel. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Jund. He made me discard just enough, but I go for Walking Ballista on Bob. Then Goyf and Raging Ravine get me down while I have to put chumps in front each turn. I hope to draw Company, but I don't and he adds Scooze. In the next game, I get E Witness after some discard and dorks get killed. But I go the distance with Gavony Township and some other creatures. In the last game, he gets stuck on 3 land and has 3 Tarmogoyf, but no Green. He drew all of them and I run away with it with double Scavenging Ooze and mana dudes. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Tron. He won the die roll. I had GAS and the turn 3 combo. He minus Karn Liberated on my Druid, so I put it in the bin. He did the same next turn and played another Karn. Then he played Walking Ballistas the rest of the way and I get 2 poor Companies, so I scoop. In the next game, he gets the same Map Tron while my mulligan probably should have been deeper. But had I drawn Druid on turn 2, I combo turn 3. I end up doing a Chord of Calling for Phyrexian Revoker EoT after 2 Walking Ballistas attack me (4/4 and 1/1). I get the Revoker and put it on Ballista while Ugin is on 3 loyalty. I hope to Company into an exalted Bro, but I hit 5 lands and Chord of Calling. GGs. 0-2.
Round 4 vs. Abzan Rites. He kept me off the Combo, but Collected Company into E Witness and Scooze, exiling Unburial Rites before he could flash it back was too much. In the next game, he Thoughtseizes my CoCo, leaving me with double mana dork and 4 lands. I peel some guys off the top and get to work with Gavony Township. He could not beat this card in this game with too many creatures. I kept 3 creatures in hand and then he showed me he drew Languish when my guys were all larger than X/4s from the Township. Them's the beats. 2-0.
I finish 3-1 for the evening.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)What do you think about this new card ? http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/viviens-arkbow/
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
3x Duskwatch Recruiter Flip
3x Eternal Witness
4x Kitchen Finks
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Shalai, Voice of Plenty
2x Viscera Seer
4x Vizier of Remedies
1x Walking Ballista
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
Land (22)
3x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Razorverge Thicket
2x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
2x Assassin's Trophy
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Knight of Autumn
1x Mirran Crusader
2x Path to Exile
1x Remorseful Cleric
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Sin Collector
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
The SB is mostly a meta call and since I haven't played much recently, I'll leave that one up to others to comment on. It looks solid to me.
I might bring back Kataki, War's Wage if you expect Whir Prison.Oh damn, you have it!Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)For anyone concerned about Whir Prison, try fitting a Mirror Entity in your 75 (though most people play it main these days). Against most decks, its just nice to turn excess mana dorks into Beastmaster Ascension. Against Thing in the Ice, you can mise by making your team into Horrors. And against Whir Prison, you can attack with your 10+ 0-power creatures under their Ensnaring Bridge lock, then turn them all into big beaters before damage.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Sorry for that question, but i would like to undertand a little better the reasons and responses Mirror Entity will offer in the game (which situacions is good or bad, not only against Thing in the Ice)
Btw, is there any sideguide?
Ty.
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
XGG
Sorcery
Search your library and/or graveyard for a creature card with converted mana cost X or less and put it onto the battlefield. If you search your library this way, shuffle it.
If X is 10 or more, creatures you control get +X/+X and gain haste until end of turn.
It grabs both combo pieces and can be a finisher. I'll be testing it for sure.
At first glance, it makes me sad that Green Sun's Zenith officially has a permanent grave in Modern, but it actually seems fairly sweet. I would love to see testing for this card!
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)The first thought is to replace Chord as it has the same functionality. It has increased casting speed (marginally) but lacks instant speed, meaning you don't get to EoT search for Druid and untap with 'haste'. Replacing Compnay means you completely lose the backup card-advantage-value plan which should only really be done for the turbo-druid decks. I don't think that will happen.
If you want to go reeeeeeal deep with it you could cut Ballista and Recruiter as this acts as a finisher. You can drop a ton of creatures by chaining EWits and these together to get up to 7 creatures into play, and if they have an EBridge you can get Knight of Autumn to blow it up. You lose some grinding potential of Recruiter, but gain a lot more silver-bullet finding capabilities.
Overall, I think the loss of Instant speed is very rough, and not being able to grab a Dryad Arbor on T1 is leagues worse than GSZ. My hot take is that the deck won't adopt it completely, but may find some happy medium split of 1 of these and 3 Chords or something, for those times when all your Druids or EWits are in the graveyard, or they exile your Ballista and you need an alternate wincon.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
It also means you no longer have that pesky deck restriction of running X number of 3cmc or less creatures to nearly always get two hits. It also means you no longer need to reduce the number of noncreatute spells you play in order to maximize coco hits.
Coco improved resiliency, but thanks to the reanimate part of FoD that might not be as big a factor.
Hell, without coco in the mix there's no reason not to try cards you'd never previously have used, like the new 2 mana eldritch evolution, planeswalkers, artifacts/enchantment, etc.
BG Rock
Modern:
RW Sun & Moon
RBG Dredge
RWG Burn
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes
Is it not basically a 1 for 1 replacement for collected company? With finale of devastation I think I'd like to play more eternal witnesses. And finally Aether vial also, which gets better without collected company.
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/799097-druid-evolution
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Modern
URB Grixis Delver
GWB Abzan Company
RWB Mardu Burn
WB Martyr Proc
I don't agree with this. Our deck core is based on getting infinite mana via devoted druid and vizier. Collected company interacts greatly with that goal but that's it. It should be considered for a potential swap when new cards are released.
My list is probably bad, but I'm just tossing some ideas around to see if anyone has tried something similar recently. Thing in the ice has been a real problem recently so I'm also curious if anyone has found an effective way to fight phoenix decks other than the 1 of mirror entity which is a card I've been playing for years since it just goldfishes turn 4 or 5 kills through combat pumps.
As for TitI, Izzet Phoenix is this deck's single worst matchup in the entire format. Your best odds of beating the deck are bringing in all your value from the SB and grinding them out, including recurring your removal (but prioritizing removal on Thing in the Ice). Also, a 2nd Mirror Entity is gaining popularity and is worth testing if you like the first one.
Also, for builds that are light on black, you can splash blue for Deputy of Detention which can help a variety of matchups.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival