I do not have a marsh flats and only 1 verdant, can i play other black/white/green fetches instead? what do you guys recommend?
Also is the WG cycle land from amonkhet a decent replacement for canopy?
Thanks!
I would recommend playing any green fetches and only green shocklands to fetch. This increase the consistency at which you will have green mana to play a turn 1 dork. Also helps with chord. Yes, I am saying don't run godless shrine or basic swamp, the plains is neccesary though. Also, I wouldn't play scattered groves for canopy, coming into play tapped is too huge a cost. Instead you get some Razorverge thickets as the best replacement. You could also consider additional temple gardens or fetches for the slot.
Obviously, making these upgrades would make the deck a lot better but I understand if you can't right now. (The verdants aren't actually neccesary so don't worry about getting them).
Obviously, making these upgrades would make the deck a lot better but I understand if you can't right now. (The verdants aren't actually neccesary so don't worry about getting them).
What do you replace Verdant with without losing the ability to fetch a basic Swamp or Forest? It seems like Marsh Flats would be strictly worse by far. I'd like to not have to move my Verdants around between Jund and Counters Co if possible, but I can't see what would be equal to them.
This is the list that I was running. But I know it's outdated and there's probably tons of changes. What is your SB and why? My meta has a lot of Humans, which is a good matchup, but also Burn and Midrange. Some Trons, a Goblins, and some tribal decks. Affinity and Titanshift are rare, but everything else is there. Oh yeah, a LOT of UR Breach.
P.S. - I'm looking to get those Distended Mindbenders out. It was fun, but I literally never got to play one. Most of the time, I was scared to side them in against matchups where it would be good just because of mana considerations.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
What do you replace Verdant with without losing the ability to fetch a basic Swamp or Forest? It seems like Marsh Flats would be strictly worse by far. I'd like to not have to move my Verdants around between Jund and Counters Co if possible, but I can't see what would be equal to them.
I have had no issues running Wooded Foothills in my list instead of Verdants. I don't play a basic swamp, but it is fine because I only have 2 main deck cards that cost black. Any green fetch could replace the Verdants with minimum issue. I have played over 150 matches recently and I never cared that I had Wooded Foothills instead of Verdant Catacombs.
You should not run Godless shrine if you don't run verdant catacombs, otherwise it's fine to run all forest fetches. You'll lose some tiny points by running only temple gardens and a plains as white sources, but not as much as you'll lose by being unable to fetch white or black with all your fetches.
There is also a build that is plus by running wooded foothills, which is a list that runs one stomping ground and one kessig wolf run. There's some risk there but also you'll steal games with wolf run. And you can play Crumble in the sideboard if you want.
After a long time I finally ordered the last pieces to finish the Deck.
My deck is based on the deck Vikram Kudva played in Phoenix. I want to play Knight of the Reliquary because it's one of my pet cards... I hope this fits here.
First of all some cardchoices I would like to discuss:
-No Jace, the Mind Sculptor because aint nobody got dineros fo' that! Well, I don't think it's that important for this deck. Yes, Jace is very powerful but you can still grind without him and win midrange wars.
-Wooded Foothills is a budget cut for Misty Rainforest. Dont know if I'm going to buy the playset Misty Rainforest or buy Verdant Catacombs to switch to the Abzan Combo with Finks.
-The 2 drop slot: Voice of Resurgence to have an edge against control when they shut off my combos. In my normal Knightfall list I play 3x Voice to battle all those controldecks. Not 100% sure on this here. Scavenging Ooze fighting for a slot in the maindeck with Qasali Pridemage. Ooze will give me more edge in midrange games and against graveyard strategies. I don't if it's correct to play Ooze over Pridemage. Selfless Spirit against sweeper and the Spirit can be found with Chord of Calling. I think thats good enough.
-Reflector Mage super good against a lot of decks! Maybe I will go down to 3 copies but I will play him over Spell Queller. Why? I think Spell Queller is not in the best spot right now. At least in my LGS. There are to many decks with max. removal. Also Spell Queller is a reactive card and if I cant combo-off I want to be the active part pressuring my opponent.
If I cut a Reflector Mage I will swap it with a 3rd Eternal Witness or a Tireless Tracker.
-Rhonas the Indomitable over Walking Ballista because Rhonas has better synergies with Knight of the Reliquary. Do you think adding another combo-pay-off is good?
-Island I had spots where I couldn't do anything because I had no access to blue under a Blood Moon. Furthermore you will see always a Field of Ruins. After some considerations I think I'm going to cut the Island and play Gavony Township. I play no Jace and double blue is not that important. In the end basicly both are "colorless".
-Botanical Sanctum truth is I don't know why it is played. I build the deck via netdecking and never asked questions. It's good against burn but it's not fetchable and can't be sacced for a Knight activation. Im considering a 2nd Breeding Pool. What do you think?
Sideboard:
The biggest issue is because of the inexperience with this deck. Not finished checking the whole thread (I'm working on it) but I don't really know when to cut the Vizier/Druid combo, when to cut the whole Knightfall combo, when to cut just few pieces and so on. Also people like Kelvin Chew have a "narrow" Sideboard which comes from the Knightfall-playstyle and other have a toolboxish-sideboard which you play in the Abzan Vizier decks. Can't settle which direction I will go. My sideboard for now is more of a toolbox.
The deck is super fun and challenging! Also you can win veeeery undeserved by ripping of the missing piece from the top of your deck Played it yesterday the first time in a 5 round tournament and finished 3-2. Losing both games because I'm a complete moron ... but it was a lesson for the next time!
Thank you for reading and I appreciate every comment!
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Modern: 5c Humans//Devoted Company
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
How would you all side against something like Merfolk? I’d like to bring in some spells — maybe 2x Paths and 2x Worship. Voices and Witness seem like easy cuts since they underperform here but I’m already at 4 CoCo / 4 Chord / 2 Ballista.
Similar issue with Tron. I’d like to bring in 2x Unified Will / 2x Negate and cut Voice / Witness but then CoCo starts to get watery.
How low do you go with CoCo? 12 misses? 25 hits? Any hard numbers? In matchups like Merfolk / Tron where the game is effectively decided early with the combo or disruption is it worth shaving a CoCo or two to fit other spells while focusing on Chord for the combo?
If you are playing in a meta where that is a lot of heavy removal like Jund / Abzan / Control then you will need to put cards like Thrun, the last Troll and or Sigarda, Host of Herons in your side. Side these cards in and side out either utility cards or shave your flex slot cards. In these grindy match ups Gavony Township does a lot of work because it will allow you to preasure them with mana dorks and other smaller creatures not related to the combo.
For all intents and purpose Merfolk is a beat down deck that can consistently get there on turn 5 if it has a decent draw and turn 4 if it has a nut draw. You as a combo deck just need to be faster. There will be some games where they have disruption and there is nothing you can do about it because their synergy means that they don't really have to tap out very often with Aether Vial and Merrow Rejerey.
As for Tron, you need to be more specific about which version of tron. Mono-Green, Green-Black, Eldrazi-Tron? While each of these is fundamentally the same in my opinion they are approached with different considerations because they have cards that interact with our combo in different ways. For example I would be more willing to go all in against Eldrazi-tron then I would against other tron builds because they have less removal. I would also side differently fore each match up.
@adri_kalo - yes despite the main deck life gain combo, burn is a match up that warrants sideboard consideration to help. They have a number of cards like skullcrack that can give them enough time to pull out a win.
Again you have to consider what aggro deck you are facing? Is it a zoo deck or Human deck or a elfball deck? Different decks will result in different sideboards because the approach to the game changes. Against Elfball I would side in Path to Exile just to keep Ezuri, Renegade Leader or Craterhoof Behemoth from just winning the game but focus more on just comboing. Against Humans maybe both Path and Decay because they are focused a bit more on disrupting their opponents while playing out creatures and not combo-blitzing for a win using certain creatures.
I am wondering if the people on the GW Vizier forum who control the primer can update the match ups based on more of the current builds of the deck itself and the evolution of the other decks? I see some of the cards in the primer that are not relevant anymore. Thanks.
My most common local matchups right now are Tron variants (G/GB/U, no E-Tron), Vial aggro decks (Humans/Merfolk/Taxes), and Black midrange (Jund/Traverse Shadow/Mardu), followed by a smattering of linear aggro decks. Since most of my matchups involve opposing creatures I'm filling my flex slots with the second MB Ballista, 3x Voice, and 2x Reflector Mage.
I realize that clumping these decks into archetypes is an over-simplification and also that it's sometimes difficult to apply Abzan boarding logic to Bant builds. Let's focus on Mono Green Tron: my plan is to bring in +2 Will, +2 Negate, +1 Pridemage, +1 Clique; cutting -2 Witness, -2 Reflector Mage, -1 Voice, and then -1 CoCo to keep my non-land CoCo whiffs at 12x. Does that seem like the right call, or should I keep the 4th CoCo, cut the 2nd Voice, and bump up my whiffs to 13x? Or cut Chord over CoCo? Or perhaps I'm overboarding?
Aside: I know people are a bit down on Queller at the moment but I've still found it to be really solid even in the current meta against decks it's not "supposed" to be good against. Most of my non-combo wins involve Queller in some way and I'm always pleased to see it in my opening hand.
@shelldell - While I play Abzan Vizier both variants are in the same boat against Green-Tron in my opinion. Green-Tron has an inevitable plan against us that makes our only plan combo. They have to brick very badly for any kind of beat down plan to work against them. Siding in counters against them is fine, in my opinion, because the creatures that you mentioned are not helping you combo.
Spell Queller is a bit more of a tempo play that might work better in a control arch type but it can protect the combo to a limited degree. They are not your worst cards against Green-Tron.
It does not seem particularly good. To win on the spot you need infinite mana, Slimerfoot, and a sac outlet. Even without thinking of the combo it seems like a worse magic card than walking ballista or Rhonas.
Is it me or is this card pretty damn good? Sigarda already sees some play in toolbox decks and this is 1 mana cheaper while also providing better hexproof and a mana sink/combo payoff. It's not instant like Ballista but it's a better card overall.
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
I think I will try replacing my second MB Ballista with Shalai.
The biggest downside I can see with the card is that it doesnt enable a turn 3 win like ballista(though it does result in a mostly unbeatable boardstate) so I think people will run it in addition to ballista if anything.
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Sorry, I meant turn 3. My bad. edited. Also you totally still can win turn 3 with this if you have a 2nd white source, my bad. Cant win on turn 3 w/ a t2 druid into t3 chord like you can with ballista though.
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Eh, not much except for rambling; trying to get better at deckbuilding. Feel free to ignore the spoiler and go straight to the decklist though ^_^"
So, after spending some time brewing for pauper Tortured Existence, I had an epiphany regarding how to build Vizier Company (properly, I should add). I will call this approach the 'Engine-based Approach', based on the vague workings of an automotive engine and its synergy within a car, and will detail my thought process in the following paragraphs:
Let's start with the engine itself: an obligatory full playset that makes the deck function. Now you may be thinking this is going to be the following.
But in truth, despite being crucial to the infinite mana combo, Vizier of Remedies is merely what I'll call the fuel (not to be confused with the more common slang of 'gas', which is typically card advantage in aggro decks). Devoted Druid, as the pivotal workhorse in the combo, is the sole component of the engine.
Not very impressive for a list, is it? Well, in basic terms, a car engine has three inputs--maintenance fluids, fuel, and ignition--and a single output--the drive train. In terms of constructing a Magic: the Gathering deck, they correlate respectively to the shell, any synergistic pieces, any tutors for the engine itself, and the win-con. I'll stick with the car analogy for now.
You'll recall I referred to Vizier of Remedies as 'fuel' just a few paragraphs above. Well, my point is that while running a max playset of it is preferred for consistency, dropping one in favor of the other two inputs may still get you there. Just be aware that you might have to push it the rest of the way.
Now we'll go to the ignition side of things; what starts our engine? Although it is not a perfect representation, think of the engine being inert until it enters the zone in which it can become a workhorse. In the case of Devoted Druid, that is the battlefield. Collected Company and Chord of Calling are both welcome here.
Before I delve into the bulk of an engine-based deck (maintenance), let's delve into the win-con. Obviously Walking Ballista is non-negotiable as a singleton, and so some number of Duskwatch Recruiter is preferred as well.
Finally, the bulk of the deck: maintenance fluids (ironically a relatively minor inconvenience in a car). For the sake of simplicity, we'll categorize cards as oil or coolant. Oil (including lands) keeps the deck from not working on its own and helps with goldfish speed; coolant deals with external influences and helps with longevity. As Vizier Company are primarily a combo deck, more emphasis will be placed on oil, though special consideration will be given to cards that perform multiple roles.
Of course, everybody has their favorite model of car, and I can assure you that everyone has a preferred build for Vizier Company. Outside of this spoiler is a complete example of one I'm entertaining:
Round 1 vs. Bant Eldrazi. In the first game, he has pressure and gets me low on life, but I find what I need with a Duskwatch Recruiter on the 4th activation and go off to kill him. In the next game, he plays an early Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher, but I combo him again right after the Smasher attacks. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Eggs. Not Ironworks combo. Eggs. He has Faith's Reward, Ghost Quarter, Eggs, Codex Shredder, and Banefire for a win-con. In game 1, I assemble the combo with infinite mana, but only have a Collected Company into double Kitchen Finks. He goes off on turn 4. In the next game, I consider doing Chord of Calling during his turn for Phyrexian Revoker, but I draw it the turn I was going to do it, so I do Tidehollow Sculler. It gets Banefire and he scoops. In the final game, he mulls to 5 and floods out while I get Gavony Township on creatures right away and do lethal. This guy has been doing well. I've only seen him the past 3 weeks. He finished 3-1 today, beating my friend on GB Tron in the last round. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Bant Eldrazi. Haven't played against this deck until today for quite a long time. Now I played it twice in a day! This guy usually plays spicy stuff, although I've never seen him at this shop before. In the first game, I get an Engineered Explosives with a Tidehollow Sculler and it is enough to go off and win. The next game, he mulls to 5 and I get an early Gavony Township and swing twice to kill him. An Engineered Explosives for 1, killing BoP and Viscera Seer, while ALSO killing his Grafdigger's Cage, helped me resolve 2 Collected Company. I'm pretty sure it was a mistake, although mulling already is admittedly tough. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. RW Enduring Ideal. This guy always plays Enchantress decks. He has done well with this list. Throughout the Swiss, I hoped to dodge him, but luckily for me, he offered to ID. 0-0-3. We played for fun and he won the first game. I won the next 2.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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I would recommend playing any green fetches and only green shocklands to fetch. This increase the consistency at which you will have green mana to play a turn 1 dork. Also helps with chord. Yes, I am saying don't run godless shrine or basic swamp, the plains is neccesary though. Also, I wouldn't play scattered groves for canopy, coming into play tapped is too huge a cost. Instead you get some Razorverge thickets as the best replacement. You could also consider additional temple gardens or fetches for the slot.
Obviously, making these upgrades would make the deck a lot better but I understand if you can't right now. (The verdants aren't actually neccesary so don't worry about getting them).
What do you replace Verdant with without losing the ability to fetch a basic Swamp or Forest? It seems like Marsh Flats would be strictly worse by far. I'd like to not have to move my Verdants around between Jund and Counters Co if possible, but I can't see what would be equal to them.
This is the list that I was running. But I know it's outdated and there's probably tons of changes. What is your SB and why? My meta has a lot of Humans, which is a good matchup, but also Burn and Midrange. Some Trons, a Goblins, and some tribal decks. Affinity and Titanshift are rare, but everything else is there. Oh yeah, a LOT of UR Breach.
P.S. - I'm looking to get those Distended Mindbenders out. It was fun, but I literally never got to play one. Most of the time, I was scared to side them in against matchups where it would be good just because of mana considerations.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I have had no issues running Wooded Foothills in my list instead of Verdants. I don't play a basic swamp, but it is fine because I only have 2 main deck cards that cost black. Any green fetch could replace the Verdants with minimum issue. I have played over 150 matches recently and I never cared that I had Wooded Foothills instead of Verdant Catacombs.
There is also a build that is plus by running wooded foothills, which is a list that runs one stomping ground and one kessig wolf run. There's some risk there but also you'll steal games with wolf run. And you can play Crumble in the sideboard if you want.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
3x Noble Hierarch
3x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
3x Vizier of Remedies
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
1x Voice of Resurgence
1x Selfless Spirit
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Reflector Mage
2x Eternal Witness
1x Rhonas the Indomitable
Spells:
3x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
2x Retreat to Coralhelm
1x Breeding Pool
1x Stomping Ground
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Temple Garden
1x Botanical Sanctum
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Kessig Wolf Run
3x Forest
1x Island
1x Plains
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Stony Silence
1x Unified Will
1x Negate
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Path to Exile
1x Kitchen Finnks
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Izzet Staticaster
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
1x Another Creature I can't remember
Hey! Long post incoming!
After a long time I finally ordered the last pieces to finish the Deck.
My deck is based on the deck Vikram Kudva played in Phoenix. I want to play Knight of the Reliquary because it's one of my pet cards... I hope this fits here.
First of all some cardchoices I would like to discuss:
-No Jace, the Mind Sculptor because aint nobody got dineros fo' that! Well, I don't think it's that important for this deck. Yes, Jace is very powerful but you can still grind without him and win midrange wars.
-Wooded Foothills is a budget cut for Misty Rainforest. Dont know if I'm going to buy the playset Misty Rainforest or buy Verdant Catacombs to switch to the Abzan Combo with Finks.
-The 2 drop slot:
Voice of Resurgence to have an edge against control when they shut off my combos. In my normal Knightfall list I play 3x Voice to battle all those controldecks. Not 100% sure on this here.
Scavenging Ooze fighting for a slot in the maindeck with Qasali Pridemage. Ooze will give me more edge in midrange games and against graveyard strategies. I don't if it's correct to play Ooze over Pridemage.
Selfless Spirit against sweeper and the Spirit can be found with Chord of Calling. I think thats good enough.
-Reflector Mage super good against a lot of decks! Maybe I will go down to 3 copies but I will play him over Spell Queller. Why? I think Spell Queller is not in the best spot right now. At least in my LGS. There are to many decks with max. removal. Also Spell Queller is a reactive card and if I cant combo-off I want to be the active part pressuring my opponent.
If I cut a Reflector Mage I will swap it with a 3rd Eternal Witness or a Tireless Tracker.
-Rhonas the Indomitable over Walking Ballista because Rhonas has better synergies with Knight of the Reliquary. Do you think adding another combo-pay-off is good?
-Island I had spots where I couldn't do anything because I had no access to blue under a Blood Moon. Furthermore you will see always a Field of Ruins. After some considerations I think I'm going to cut the Island and play Gavony Township. I play no Jace and double blue is not that important. In the end basicly both are "colorless".
-Botanical Sanctum truth is I don't know why it is played. I build the deck via netdecking and never asked questions. It's good against burn but it's not fetchable and can't be sacced for a Knight activation. Im considering a 2nd Breeding Pool. What do you think?
Sideboard:
The biggest issue is because of the inexperience with this deck. Not finished checking the whole thread (I'm working on it) but I don't really know when to cut the Vizier/Druid combo, when to cut the whole Knightfall combo, when to cut just few pieces and so on. Also people like Kelvin Chew have a "narrow" Sideboard which comes from the Knightfall-playstyle and other have a toolboxish-sideboard which you play in the Abzan Vizier decks. Can't settle which direction I will go. My sideboard for now is more of a toolbox.
The deck is super fun and challenging! Also you can win veeeery undeserved by ripping of the missing piece from the top of your deck Played it yesterday the first time in a 5 round tournament and finished 3-2. Losing both games because I'm a complete moron ... but it was a lesson for the next time!
Thank you for reading and I appreciate every comment!
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
How would you all side against something like Merfolk? I’d like to bring in some spells — maybe 2x Paths and 2x Worship. Voices and Witness seem like easy cuts since they underperform here but I’m already at 4 CoCo / 4 Chord / 2 Ballista.
Similar issue with Tron. I’d like to bring in 2x Unified Will / 2x Negate and cut Voice / Witness but then CoCo starts to get watery.
How low do you go with CoCo? 12 misses? 25 hits? Any hard numbers? In matchups like Merfolk / Tron where the game is effectively decided early with the combo or disruption is it worth shaving a CoCo or two to fit other spells while focusing on Chord for the combo?
@Shelldell - For merfolk I would suggest siding in Sin Collector or Tidehollow Sculler to take away their disruption and focus purely on trying to combo off. You have to play around Harbinger of the tides and tidebinder mage just as much as Echoing Truth or Vapor Snag. Chances are there will also be Spreading Seas so side in Abrupt Decay and enchantment removal if you are concerned about your mana.
For all intents and purpose Merfolk is a beat down deck that can consistently get there on turn 5 if it has a decent draw and turn 4 if it has a nut draw. You as a combo deck just need to be faster. There will be some games where they have disruption and there is nothing you can do about it because their synergy means that they don't really have to tap out very often with Aether Vial and Merrow Rejerey.
As for Tron, you need to be more specific about which version of tron. Mono-Green, Green-Black, Eldrazi-Tron? While each of these is fundamentally the same in my opinion they are approached with different considerations because they have cards that interact with our combo in different ways. For example I would be more willing to go all in against Eldrazi-tron then I would against other tron builds because they have less removal. I would also side differently fore each match up.
@adri_kalo - yes despite the main deck life gain combo, burn is a match up that warrants sideboard consideration to help. They have a number of cards like skullcrack that can give them enough time to pull out a win.
Again you have to consider what aggro deck you are facing? Is it a zoo deck or Human deck or a elfball deck? Different decks will result in different sideboards because the approach to the game changes. Against Elfball I would side in Path to Exile just to keep Ezuri, Renegade Leader or Craterhoof Behemoth from just winning the game but focus more on just comboing. Against Humans maybe both Path and Decay because they are focused a bit more on disrupting their opponents while playing out creatures and not combo-blitzing for a win using certain creatures.
I am wondering if the people on the GW Vizier forum who control the primer can update the match ups based on more of the current builds of the deck itself and the evolution of the other decks? I see some of the cards in the primer that are not relevant anymore. Thanks.
Pharika is the grindy midrange card you're looking for for the most part, with rec sages to kill their yard hate.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
2x Botanical Sanctum
2x Breeding Pool
1x Flooded Strand
3x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Plains
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Walking Ballista
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Devoted Druid
3x Vizier of Remedies
3x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Voice of Resurgence
4x Spell Queller
3x Eternal Witness
2x Reflector Mage
Instant (8)
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
2x Unified Will
2x Negate
2x Worship
2x Burrenton Forge-Tender
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Fairgrounds Warden
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Vendilion Clique
I realize that clumping these decks into archetypes is an over-simplification and also that it's sometimes difficult to apply Abzan boarding logic to Bant builds. Let's focus on Mono Green Tron: my plan is to bring in +2 Will, +2 Negate, +1 Pridemage, +1 Clique; cutting -2 Witness, -2 Reflector Mage, -1 Voice, and then -1 CoCo to keep my non-land CoCo whiffs at 12x. Does that seem like the right call, or should I keep the 4th CoCo, cut the 2nd Voice, and bump up my whiffs to 13x? Or cut Chord over CoCo? Or perhaps I'm overboarding?
Aside: I know people are a bit down on Queller at the moment but I've still found it to be really solid even in the current meta against decks it's not "supposed" to be good against. Most of my non-combo wins involve Queller in some way and I'm always pleased to see it in my opening hand.
Spell Queller is a bit more of a tempo play that might work better in a control arch type but it can protect the combo to a limited degree. They are not your worst cards against Green-Tron.
Another tool for our combo, I think I will run it
Slimerfoot, the Stowaway - 1BG
Legendary Creature - Fungus
Whenever a Saproling you control dies, Slimerfoot, the Stowaway deals 1 damage to each opponent and you gain 1 life.
4: Create a 1/1 green Saproling creature token
Is it me or is this card pretty damn good? Sigarda already sees some play in toolbox decks and this is 1 mana cheaper while also providing better hexproof and a mana sink/combo payoff. It's not instant like Ballista but it's a better card overall.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
The biggest downside I can see with the card is that it doesnt enable a turn 3 win like ballista(though it does result in a mostly unbeatable boardstate) so I think people will run it in addition to ballista if anything.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Let's start with the engine itself: an obligatory full playset that makes the deck function. Now you may be thinking this is going to be the following.
4 Vizier of Remedies
But in truth, despite being crucial to the infinite mana combo, Vizier of Remedies is merely what I'll call the fuel (not to be confused with the more common slang of 'gas', which is typically card advantage in aggro decks). Devoted Druid, as the pivotal workhorse in the combo, is the sole component of the engine.
Not very impressive for a list, is it? Well, in basic terms, a car engine has three inputs--maintenance fluids, fuel, and ignition--and a single output--the drive train. In terms of constructing a Magic: the Gathering deck, they correlate respectively to the shell, any synergistic pieces, any tutors for the engine itself, and the win-con. I'll stick with the car analogy for now.
You'll recall I referred to Vizier of Remedies as 'fuel' just a few paragraphs above. Well, my point is that while running a max playset of it is preferred for consistency, dropping one in favor of the other two inputs may still get you there. Just be aware that you might have to push it the rest of the way.
3 Vizier of Remedies
Now we'll go to the ignition side of things; what starts our engine? Although it is not a perfect representation, think of the engine being inert until it enters the zone in which it can become a workhorse. In the case of Devoted Druid, that is the battlefield. Collected Company and Chord of Calling are both welcome here.
3 Vizier of Remedies
3 Chord of Calling
Before I delve into the bulk of an engine-based deck (maintenance), let's delve into the win-con. Obviously Walking Ballista is non-negotiable as a singleton, and so some number of Duskwatch Recruiter is preferred as well.
3 Vizier of Remedies
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Walking Ballista
3 Chord of Calling
Finally, the bulk of the deck: maintenance fluids (ironically a relatively minor inconvenience in a car). For the sake of simplicity, we'll categorize cards as oil or coolant. Oil (including lands) keeps the deck from not working on its own and helps with goldfish speed; coolant deals with external influences and helps with longevity. As Vizier Company are primarily a combo deck, more emphasis will be placed on oil, though special consideration will be given to cards that perform multiple roles.
3 Vizier of Remedies
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Walking Ballista
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Eternal Witness
3 Chord of Calling
4 Windswept Heath
2 Temple Garden
3 Forest
1 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
Of course, everybody has their favorite model of car, and I can assure you that everyone has a preferred build for Vizier Company. Outside of this spoiler is a complete example of one I'm entertaining:
4 Vizier of Remedies
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Walking Ballista
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Spell Queller
3 Chord of Calling
1 Eldritch Evolution
2 Retreat to Coralhelm
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Field of Ruin
Avatar and Signature by XenoNinja via Heroes of the Plane Studios
Round 1 vs. Bant Eldrazi. In the first game, he has pressure and gets me low on life, but I find what I need with a Duskwatch Recruiter on the 4th activation and go off to kill him. In the next game, he plays an early Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher, but I combo him again right after the Smasher attacks. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Eggs. Not Ironworks combo. Eggs. He has Faith's Reward, Ghost Quarter, Eggs, Codex Shredder, and Banefire for a win-con. In game 1, I assemble the combo with infinite mana, but only have a Collected Company into double Kitchen Finks. He goes off on turn 4. In the next game, I consider doing Chord of Calling during his turn for Phyrexian Revoker, but I draw it the turn I was going to do it, so I do Tidehollow Sculler. It gets Banefire and he scoops. In the final game, he mulls to 5 and floods out while I get Gavony Township on creatures right away and do lethal. This guy has been doing well. I've only seen him the past 3 weeks. He finished 3-1 today, beating my friend on GB Tron in the last round. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Bant Eldrazi. Haven't played against this deck until today for quite a long time. Now I played it twice in a day! This guy usually plays spicy stuff, although I've never seen him at this shop before. In the first game, I get an Engineered Explosives with a Tidehollow Sculler and it is enough to go off and win. The next game, he mulls to 5 and I get an early Gavony Township and swing twice to kill him. An Engineered Explosives for 1, killing BoP and Viscera Seer, while ALSO killing his Grafdigger's Cage, helped me resolve 2 Collected Company. I'm pretty sure it was a mistake, although mulling already is admittedly tough. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. RW Enduring Ideal. This guy always plays Enchantress decks. He has done well with this list. Throughout the Swiss, I hoped to dodge him, but luckily for me, he offered to ID. 0-0-3. We played for fun and he won the first game. I won the next 2.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)