I believe Todd Stevens shifted to Bant Midrange recently in large part due to GW Value Town’s inability to handle Terminus and Walkers, so if UWx Control is a major motivator for shifting to V Town I would reconsider.
Could we take some lessons from Stevens' changes? Instead of spending our non-combo slots on value creatures (for beating midrange and control) could we try planeswalkers in their place? Obviously this would put a major damper on Collected Company and Militia Bugler (meaning they would probably have to be cut), but if the planeswalkers work out as a better advantage engine, that seems like a small price to pay.
i played this deck at a large PPTQ last weekend and didn't represent the deck too well. made a few noobie mistakes which i'd chalk up to lack of practice with the deck recently.
also, worth noting that about half of the whole room was on some kind of blue control deck, and later in the tournament, the top tables were a mishmash of UW control and very little else. The meta was extremely hostile to this type of deck.
also rather amusing, near the middle/bottom tables (where I was) towards the final rounds, it was all Tron mirror matches! clearly not a good day for Tron. After facing control three times in the early rounds I got Tronned in the later rounds.
I reckon the GW Value Town deck may be better positioned as a CoCo strategy in my local meta (UK, Midlands and South West) where everyone seems to want to play control.
either way, i'm gonna put the deck down in paper, just for the moment, in order to run something a bit more deterministic in its gameplan, that's not so soft to endless creature removal. I'm thinking RUG Scapeshift might be a decent option in this weird meta. Or I could just go TRON and see what happens.
wish me luck!
Don't feel badly. I've been playing so many decks recently that when I audible to Bogles or Titanshift, I occasionally make a small mistake with even those decks just because I haven't been playing them much recently. Something as simple as taking 2 more life unnecessarily with Titanshift. Still, it's pretty embarrassing because I know when I've been playing the decks for at least 5 days straight, I can play them to 100% in every aspect of the game. Yeah, sometimes I mulligan depending on what I think someone's on and they end up being on something else or I take the correct line and lose because of it, but those are not really "mistakes."
I think RG Titanshift can beat UW Control. I haven't tested it recently, but with a Thrun, the Last Troll and some Tireless Trackers, I believe you can win. Just extend as much as you need to and protect Valakuts and I think you are around 55/45 to win in my experience (haven't been against Terminus with the deck yet though). I would assume something like Mardu Pyromancer would be good vs. UW, but then you fold pretty hard to Tron.
*Stick with it. I know everyone saw the PPTQ report where I went 1-2 and dropped. The salt really flowed in that report. Sorry. But the next PPTQ with it, I was 1 game and 1 fewer Searing Blaze to be more specific, from winning. Stick with it guys. I do truly believe this is a deck that is capable of winning a PPTQ and possibly a GP, although that's a big tougher.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I played at FNM with 27 players for 4 rounds. Lost 4 die rolls today; nothing new. It's part of the reason I enjoy playing this deck. Outside of a Gemstone Caverns deck, this one doesn't punish being on the draw as much IMO.
Round 1 vs. Jeskai. I had him on the back foot right away after he Bolted a Bird, then I played Devoted Druid. I had enough pressure to resolve several Collected Companies while he flooded to 6 lands and only played 1 Cryptic. I end up getting there with too much gas and a Scavenging Ooze that just AAATE his graveyard and my dead creatures from earlier. In the next game, he mulliganed to 5. He got me with a turn 4 Settle the Wreckage on Kitchen Finks, a Scavenging Ooze, and a Vizier of Remedies, but I followed with Duskwatch Recruiter and got a million creatures off him, while drawing only Collected Companies. I resolve a Voice of Resurgence and win nearly after killing a Teferi. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Bant Spirits. In game 1, he starts with the pressure, but draws a 2nd Vial and I get too much pressure for him. It's close and I was hoping for Gavony Township to make it easy, but I got there barely. In the next game, I am close to the Combo, but he does Disdainful Stroke (I expected Unified Will, which does nothing in that situation) to get my Chord for infinite mana. He slows me down enough and makes a plethora of lords to get lethal after 2 chumps by Birds. I drew my 2nd land on turn 5, but I thought I was good because I had mana dork into Devoted Druid and 2 more Devoted Druids in hand with Chord. In the last game, he had a 4/5 Spell Queller (on CoCo) that he didn't attack with because I only had Kitchen Finks and Noble Hierarch, but I draw and play another CoCo for a 2nd Hierarch and he takes 5 damage. This attack made him just barely have me at 2 life when I win with Gavony Township. He Quellered the CoCo, then cast his own CoCo, netting Gaddock Teeg. Luckily for me, I didn't draw anything affected by it. I basically drew Gavony Township in time to not lose as I swung him to 1 life, but Kitchen Finks Persisted to gain my 2 life. Then he swung with everything and I blocked the persisted Finks on Gaddock Teeg. He tried to CoCo in response, but … I didn't realize until after he had resolved it ... he has Gaddock Teeg out. He just scooped because he saw the writing on the wall. I did notice quite late though. I gotta be more careful. It's just that I was calculating 2 lines that he would have to have to stay alive and he had both of them, so my mind was a bit flustered. Got there though. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. 4 Color Saheeli. This game was played out long, as I killed 2 Saheelis and a Felidar Guardian with Walking Ballista, but he eventually got Restoration Angel to slow me, then drew a land after a few Lotus Cobras to get the last card in his hand down, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. GGs. I had a million turns to assemble the combo, but couldn't find anything. In the next game, it is similar. I just draw lands after using a Walking Ballista to kill a Felidar Guardian, a Restoration Angel, and 2 Saheelis. I used E Witness TWICE with all of the mana I drew (5 lands, 2 Devoted Druid, and 2 Noble Hierarch). But he got another Felidar Guardian and the next turn, he played Impact Tremors and Eldritch Evolution his Cobra for Restoration Angel to bounce each other for infinite damage after I tapped out for a next turn lethal Gavony activation. I'm assuming he had Impact Tremors in his hand the whole game and drew Eldritch Evolution for the turn since there was a card he just was not playing from the beginning. 0-2.
Round 4 vs. Burn. Kind of upset about the last round, especially since my opponent was playing with some fake cards and although his deck felt like fewer than 60 cards, it was exactly 60 cards. I am at 5 life when my Burn opponent on 2 lands still does Boros Charm to me to put me to 1, but doesn't attack his Goblin Guide into Kitchen Finks. I untap, play Vizier of Remedies and Chord of Calling for Viscera Seer. Poof - infinite life and scrys. In the next game, I just had too much and got there with a 6/6 Scavenging Ooze after trading, then landing 2 Kitchen Finks that got Path to Exiled. I think he needed to Path the Scooze, but honestly I won at 14 life with 2 cards in his hand, so I don't think there were outs. I even had Collected Company and Chord in hand, but there was no reason to react. I could have won on the final turn by playing the Devoted Druid that I had just drawn, then fetched/shocked to 11 life, put counters on the Devoted Druid to put him in the yard, ate him with Scooze, and then activated Gavony Township for exactly 8 life, but instead I just attack him to 2 life with CoCo and Chord up. He draws and scoops. I think that 11 life was safe from 3 cards anyway. Oh well; it didn't hurt to play too safely. 2-0.
I finish 3-1, which isn't too bad. I would have liked to 3-0-1 or 4-0, but my deck would not quite cooperate against Saheeli.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
35 person PPTQ, last PPTQ of the season. Will this be the first Modern Season I don't win one?
Mulled to 6 every single first game of all 6 matches. Also mulled to 6 a bunch other than that, although to 5 only once. Won 2 of my first 4 die rolls But then lost the last 2. Doesn't matter much; I need cards when I have fewer cards than my opponent.
Round 1 vs. UR Wizards. I mull to 6. He plays Delver and I cannot draw a 4th land. I kept on 3 land and drew 0 lands the whole game, losing on turn 7. I did a Collected Company in response to revealing a Spell Pierce to flip Delver, but it got literally 1 Devoted Druid. Then he Remanded and Snap Remanded Kitchen Finks while I drew Finks after Finks after Finks. He ended up throwing 5 Bolt this game too - 2 Bolt, 2 Wizard's Lightning, and a Burst Lightning. In the next game, he gets me to 2 life with a Delver in play and 2 cards in hand. I play Vizier of Remedies and Chord for Viscera Seer. He doesn't have anything? No way! In the last game, I just get tempoed out by a bunch of Bolts and he finishes me off with the 3rd Lightning Bolt of the game (after 2 Wizard's Lightning, which I couldn't stop by killing 2 Soul-Scar Mage). He got there when I flooded the heck out and CoCo'ed for a Devoted Druid and a BoP. I mean, it's good if I draw Vizier or a way to get Vizier, but without it, it's pretty useless. Ominous way to start a tournament. 1-2.
Round 2 vs. Storm. In game 1, he is on the draw and plays Baral. I get infinite mana and CoCo, then E Witness CoCo gets there. He showed me he had me next turn. Storm is no joke. In the next game, he kept on Serum Visions and 1 land. He missed his 2nd land drop for 2 turns. He showed me he literally had game easily if he drew the 2nd land. That was terrible luck, something that I rarely see from my opponents. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. UW Enchantments. This is just an odd deck. I played around sweepers and Settle because a friend described playing against this Jank deck. I keep paying for 2 Ghostly Prison and crash with Finks with 2 Exalted triggers. It helped that I drew 7 land to go with 2 Noble Hierarchs. I draw the Combo right as I'm about to do lethal, so I swing fo lethal instead. In the next game, I Combo on turn 4 I believe for infinite life and he scoops. I guess he didn't have a way to beat infinite life or didn't want to try. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Hollow One. He has a normal draw, but the turn before I die. I am able to hit Vizier of Remedies AND Duskwatch Recruiter off Collected Company. That's a first! In the next game, he got stuck on 1 land just like my Storm opponent. He played some 1 drops, but it just wasn't enough for my gassy hand. Bad luck for him. I do not remember a tournament in the past few years where this happened twice against me, but I probably only average playing 3-4 tournaments per week. Maybe that's not enough? 2-0.
Round 5 vs. 8 Whack. I thought I had seen all of the guys who were 3-1 or close to it. I didn't know what he was playing. In game 1, I come off a bit clunky, get my mana dude killed by a Fanatical Firebrand, and then die after doing a Company for a Devoted Druid and a Noble Hierarch. He finished me off on the final turn with the 3rd Lightning Bolt of the game and the 2nd Goblin Grenade. Did you know that a resolved Grenade does 5 damage? Yep. In the next game, I am land a bunch of Kitchen Finks and a Scavenging Ooze after he did a Grenade and 3 Lightning Bolts on my creatures. I got there pretty easily. In the final game, it is close. Another mulligan for me in 6 cards. In fact, I had 6, 5, and 6 this match. Can't keep 1 land hands or 6 land hands. He had triple Goblin Guide and crushed me with them mercilessly after Bolts on BoP and Devoted Druid. This stunted my growth and I got stuck on the original 3 lands and 2 Companies that were revealed with Goblin Guide. On the final turn of lethal when I blocked, but he did 4 damage with teh other 2 GGs and then 3rd Bolt of the game, it revealed 3 lands. Hahahahah. Right on time. I think I had 20 cards in hand when I died. Seismic Assault in play and I can't lose that game. No, I can. 4th Lightning Bolt off the top and Goblin + Grenade. It's that sort of day. I only saw around 4 different cards from him, not counting Mountain or Ramunap Ruins. 1-2.
Round 6 vs. Humans. Game 1, he comes out the gates with Champ and then double Mantis Rider, but I have time. I have 2 Birds of Paradise and some chumpers. I try to find Devoted Druid or Viscera Seer to combo out, but after several turns, I don't find them, even after activating Duskwatch Recruiter 3 times. This game was close as hell, with me at 1 life and him at 1 life when he did lethal. Also there was 22 minutes left on the clock. In the next game, I am under duress again, but scry after a chump a fetchland to the top to fetch for White mana to Vizier of Remedies and combo out with Duskwatch Recruiter. In the final game, I kept a stupid hand. I will admit that I don't know what the **** I was thinking. I was thinking in non competitive ways. I had Abrupt Decay, 3 lands, 2 E Witness, and a Duskwatch Recruiter. I did Abrupt Decay on Gaddock Teeg. That was a big mistake and I kind of felt it. The other mistake was that I could not draw a 4th land...well, not really a mistake. I wish I had an Aether Vial. I could have kept doing that value train of Abrupt Decay or now I drew Maelstrom Pulse and the Witnesses, but I got greedy and played Viscera Seer and Vizier of Remedies. I felt that I was going to be stuck on 3 lands the whole game, which I was, but I could draw a Kitchen Finks and just win. But...he Vialed in Izzet Staticaster and I was wrecked. I lost both of those creatures because of this and had to Abrupt Decay the Izzet Staticaster. I should have just done the value train of removal and forced him to just kill an Eternal Witness with the Staticaster, but he was showing extreme patience. He said it was in his opener, which I'm not sure anyone can have that much patience. But it's possible. I just got wrecked and knocked from top 8 contention. He's in! 1-2.
I finish 3-3 after having 2 win-and-ins. From the look of the standings, two 4-2 players would make it in and as long as I win the final round and don't get passed up in tiebreakers, I'm in. Alas, it was not meant to be. I should certainly have mulliganed the final hand of the night, but most other hands lose as well, oddly enough.
*Looking back at the final game in Round 6 of the win-and-in, I was pretty disappointed at myself. I punted the game, even after the suspect keep. I was a bit on tilt from losing the last round barely to a deck that I should destroy to more than 2 Bolts and 2 Grenades per game in games 1 and 3 on the play for him. But I should have gotten that out of my head completely.
I didn't need to Abrupt Decay the Gaddock Teeg. I even considered not doing so, but I assumed I would draw a single land during this game and maybe Collected Company. I did so way too preemptively for 2 things that never happened. The next thing. I need to get the Champion of the Parish off the board quickly and my mana is taxed (I only had 3 with Horizon Canopy as one of them). I just needed to kill the Champ, and offer a potential block for Teeg with E Witness. I didn't want to play around Izzet Staticaster because #1 he seemed flooded, cracking 2 Horizon Canopy early on with his Vial ticking up to 3 eventually and #2 I felt that I can't beat Izzet Staticaster + Mantis Rider. But, I didn't even play to win vs. JUST Staticaster. Playing the creatures gave him an opening to destroy me and I didn't even have Kitchen Finks in my hand yet (I just thought I may draw Finks or Chord (2 sided out).) If I knew the contents of his hand, I cannot lose this game. I had another E Witness, a drawn Maelstrom Pulse, and some Duskwatch Recruiters in hand. If I stabilize and present pressure (so that Mantis Riders off the top don't just end it), I cannot lose this game, even with 3 lands the whole game. I feel like I really punted here because I assumed that Izzet Staticaster cannot be played and drawn alone - it accompanies Mantis Rider of course, duh! Stupid, stupid. How would you have played it? Would you have played it for a potential Kitchen Finks or Chord (2) if he doesn't have removal (also Reflector Mage is in the discussion)?
**Oddly enough, I believe that 4 of my opponents top 8ed. The guys from Rounds 5 and 6 obviously did because they're win-and-ins. The guy from Round 1 top 8ed. And the opponent from Round 2 on Storm was playing a win-and-in at the table next to me to be the other 4-2 to make it. I don't think it was a sign of strength. The PPTQ was a bit soft, as shown from UW Enchantments and some other things I noticed, but in the end, it was me who made the biggest PUNT in the world.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Discord is a pretty popular text and voice chat program. Many decks that don't have super nailed down lists have one or many discussion "channels", comprising a "server".
We've got Worship. It is strictly better than Ensnaring Bridge in many many cases, though definitely worse in some other cases. Pick between the two based on what you're worried about.
I faced Jeskai control, Eldrazi and taxes, Hardened affinity and UB mill.
How are the SSG's treating you? It's kindof the same list as me but with SSG instead of KotR. Do you find you're getting a T1 Druid often or just using them to cast Companies on T2 or something?
I agree with this. I think if you're playing SSG, it should be more like the Eternal Devote (Turbo Vizier) version with Hall of the Bandit Lord. Damn, I would love to try playing that again (only got 5-3 in 2 FNMs), but I kind of am prized into play UW Control since it's insane. I think I'm going to play Knightfall or just straight Bant Company occasionally for a bit with UW Control as my main deck.
On another note, I tried some main board UW Control vs. Abzan Counters and it was 6-6 so far. Not as bad as I'd thought, based on what everyone keeps saying (that we get thrashed).
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I've realized the life combo is not sustainable after GRN. The slots taken up by Kitchen Finks + Viscera Seer were easy to defend when we had Gavony Township to turn Finks into a card advantage engine in grindy matchups. With Assassin's Trophy on the way, Gavony will be shot on sight by everyone, not just the few decks that already play significant numbers of Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin (like DnT and UW Control). I'm really going to miss the lifegain combo, but it can't be justified anymore.
Depending on the prevalence of Jund and Jeskai, the low starting toughness of Tireless Tracker may be a liability. Other than that, I am pretty confident about these card choices and I'm happy to discuss any of them.
GBx decks were already running some number of field of ruin, ghost quarter and/or fulminator mage in the side for Tron. Those aren't the cards they typically board in vs creature combo anyway, since the rest of the removal should handle the combo and the threats should outclass the leftover creatures.
I don't think trophy is going to be an auto 4 in every GBx deck. maelstrom pulse is just always better when not sniping a land after you hit 3 mana and you aren't resource constrained to play multiple spells a turn. It's the superior top deck later in the game. abrupt decay was already solid as a 2+ of for some metas. The card is also fighting against push, the x splash spells like bolt/path, and the more situational removal collective brutality and splash color spells. Abzan probably will not run 4 path 4 trophy because you do t want to ramp/thin someone that hard. Jund needs better T1-3 answers alongside it. I can see an argument for a 2 main 2 side, but those 2 side are more for tron than this deck.
Trophy is a great card, but I would never waste it on a township unless two turns of activations would give you the game; because I should have several lands that can do it for me anyway. I'd much rather pocket it to keep you off the combo, at which point it's the same as almost any other removal in that slot. Some of the utility creatures for control may come out for more removal, but that was happening anyway after board.
The only deck that trophy should cause concern for is probably tron, because it gives a classic easy matchup game now. Everyone else is going to see the same number of removal pieces in the deck and the same volume of land destruction. GBx is t going to give up the fields/quarters because they need a way to shut down azcanta that the control player can't counter.
Trophy is also much more awkward to cast than it looks. It's dual color, but between it and path decks want more basics anyway. Additionally you can't cast it until t2, and it can ramp your opponent. The ideal time to fire off trophy is actually t4-5 after you've demonstrated you're not bottlenecked on mana. At that point, unless I'm deploying removal + threat or double interactive spell, it's going to be the same as any other removal the majority of the time.
I think you're misunderstanding my analysis of the impact of Assassin's Trophy.
I'm well aware that GBx decks won't be running 4x AssTrophy. However, for the Kitchen Finks version of GWx Vizier, Gavony Township is the primary (and possibly ONLY) win condition against midrange decks. With the rise of land destruction and graveyard hate, Finks/Gavony was becoming tenuous already. Since I expect Assassin's Trophy to be played in some number (probably as a MD 2-of, with extra's in the SB) for all GBx decks, this means my Finks/Gavony win condition is going to be even more at risk than it was before. Hence I'm looking for other sources of card advantage and other sources of big creatures.
Also, moving grind creatures to the maindeck freed up a LOT of sideboard slots!
I think you're misunderstanding my analysis of the impact of Assassin's Trophy.
I'm well aware that GBx decks won't be running 4x AssTrophy. However, for the Kitchen Finks version of GWx Vizier, Gavony Township is the primary (and possibly ONLY) win condition against midrange decks. With the rise of land destruction and graveyard hate, Finks/Gavony was becoming tenuous already. Since I expect Assassin's Trophy to be played in some number (probably as a MD 2-of, with extra's in the SB) for all GBx decks, this means my Finks/Gavony win condition is going to be even more at risk than it was before. Hence I'm looking for other sources of card advantage and other sources of big creatures.
Also, moving grind creatures to the maindeck freed up a LOT of sideboard slots!
Last Laplasjan 5-0 with GoR : he switched to GW company.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1368165#paper
+ 2 Knight of Autumn, 4 Knight of the Reliquary, 2 Tireless Tracker maindeck, and some manabase changes for KotR.
Still some black for the side !
Greetings,
B00NTY
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vizier company GWB- Dredge GBR - TitanShift GR - Grishoalbrand BR - Burn WR - Elves GB - Colorless Eldrazi X - U tron U
Last Laplasjan 5-0 with GoR : he switched to GW company.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1368165#paper
+ 2 Knight of Autumn, 4 Knight of the Reliquary, 2 Tireless Tracker maindeck, and some manabase changes for KotR.
Still some black for the side !
Greetings,
B00NTY
Wow that's a lot of significant changes from his old list!
Most obvious: he cut the Kitchen Finks combo. I'm glad to see that my reasoning on the future of Kitchen Finks was correct.
He cut a Duskwatch Recruiter. I've seen this a lot, but I find it hard to justify as it is an essential combo piece.
He cut an [Eternal Witness]. I've found Eternal Witness to be consistently fantastic. I don't see any good reason to go below 3 unless you're playing a combo-only version of the deck. Could anybody suggest a reason behind this?
4x Knight of the Reliquary is surprising. @Torpf has had a lot of success with KotR, but he admitted that it was simply a great card that Bugler could get, not that it had any greater purpose. So I wonder if 4 is too many.
2 Knight of Autumn seems reasonable, though IMO 1 would be sufficient for the maindeck.
11 creatures at CMC=3, despite increasing the number of colorless lands and the number of lands that intentionally die. This feels greedy to me, but this is a pretty common trend in the lists I'm seeing, so maybe I'm just too conservative.
7 fetches, down from 9. This seems reasonable given the Field of Ruins.
2 Field of Ruin and 1 Tectonic Edge seems a little slow. There are a fair number of cases where that land destruction needs to happen ASAP. I'd wedge a Ghost Quarter in there somewhere. Has anyone tried GQ? Is the card disadvantage not worth the speed?
Knight of Autumn #3 and #4 in the sideboard? Is she really that good?
I play Knight of the Reliquary religiously (Laplasjan's list with Kitchen Finks combo is probably my first deck without KotR since its printing 9 years ago) so I feel like I have the authority to declare that Knight of the Reliquary is much better when you have a way to give it trample. Kessig Wolf-Run and a Stomping Grounds is the old standby, but I think we're better off with a Rhonas.
@mirrislegend:I agree with you about the need for 1 ghost quarter in the build. I'm still not sure about cutting the finks, with burn being so popular (again). About recruiter and witness, they are good but not that much in starting hand, and especially not in multiple. That's the definition that make me play a card 2 or 3 times, but not 4.
Finks didn't help the Burn matchup as much as we'd like anyways, as I learned the hard way, repeatedly Maybe that's why Laplasjan is packing 4x Knight of Autumn in his 75?
As far as cutting down on Duskwatch and Eternal Witness, the logic is sound and adopted by many for good reason.
But my experience says that 4 Duskwatch and 3 Eternal Witness is best simply because maximizes your opportunities to combo. It cuts down on the number of situations where you look sadly at your hand and say "if only I had ____".
Also, on the subject of drawing more of a card than you need, Duskwatch Recruiters is one of the best for that, as they make EXCELLENT removal bait. Failure to kill an early Duskwatch allows you to punish them by loading up on creatures by activating him or punish by flipping him and dumping your hand into play for cheap. If they chose to kill it, that's one less removal spell pointed at your Devoted Druid or Tireless Tracker.
Could we take some lessons from Stevens' changes? Instead of spending our non-combo slots on value creatures (for beating midrange and control) could we try planeswalkers in their place? Obviously this would put a major damper on Collected Company and Militia Bugler (meaning they would probably have to be cut), but if the planeswalkers work out as a better advantage engine, that seems like a small price to pay.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Don't feel badly. I've been playing so many decks recently that when I audible to Bogles or Titanshift, I occasionally make a small mistake with even those decks just because I haven't been playing them much recently. Something as simple as taking 2 more life unnecessarily with Titanshift. Still, it's pretty embarrassing because I know when I've been playing the decks for at least 5 days straight, I can play them to 100% in every aspect of the game. Yeah, sometimes I mulligan depending on what I think someone's on and they end up being on something else or I take the correct line and lose because of it, but those are not really "mistakes."
I think RG Titanshift can beat UW Control. I haven't tested it recently, but with a Thrun, the Last Troll and some Tireless Trackers, I believe you can win. Just extend as much as you need to and protect Valakuts and I think you are around 55/45 to win in my experience (haven't been against Terminus with the deck yet though). I would assume something like Mardu Pyromancer would be good vs. UW, but then you fold pretty hard to Tron.
*Stick with it. I know everyone saw the PPTQ report where I went 1-2 and dropped. The salt really flowed in that report. Sorry. But the next PPTQ with it, I was 1 game and 1 fewer Searing Blaze to be more specific, from winning. Stick with it guys. I do truly believe this is a deck that is capable of winning a PPTQ and possibly a GP, although that's a big tougher.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
What does that mean?
I played at FNM with 27 players for 4 rounds. Lost 4 die rolls today; nothing new. It's part of the reason I enjoy playing this deck. Outside of a Gemstone Caverns deck, this one doesn't punish being on the draw as much IMO.
Round 1 vs. Jeskai. I had him on the back foot right away after he Bolted a Bird, then I played Devoted Druid. I had enough pressure to resolve several Collected Companies while he flooded to 6 lands and only played 1 Cryptic. I end up getting there with too much gas and a Scavenging Ooze that just AAATE his graveyard and my dead creatures from earlier. In the next game, he mulliganed to 5. He got me with a turn 4 Settle the Wreckage on Kitchen Finks, a Scavenging Ooze, and a Vizier of Remedies, but I followed with Duskwatch Recruiter and got a million creatures off him, while drawing only Collected Companies. I resolve a Voice of Resurgence and win nearly after killing a Teferi. 2-0.
Round 2 vs. Bant Spirits. In game 1, he starts with the pressure, but draws a 2nd Vial and I get too much pressure for him. It's close and I was hoping for Gavony Township to make it easy, but I got there barely. In the next game, I am close to the Combo, but he does Disdainful Stroke (I expected Unified Will, which does nothing in that situation) to get my Chord for infinite mana. He slows me down enough and makes a plethora of lords to get lethal after 2 chumps by Birds. I drew my 2nd land on turn 5, but I thought I was good because I had mana dork into Devoted Druid and 2 more Devoted Druids in hand with Chord. In the last game, he had a 4/5 Spell Queller (on CoCo) that he didn't attack with because I only had Kitchen Finks and Noble Hierarch, but I draw and play another CoCo for a 2nd Hierarch and he takes 5 damage. This attack made him just barely have me at 2 life when I win with Gavony Township. He Quellered the CoCo, then cast his own CoCo, netting Gaddock Teeg. Luckily for me, I didn't draw anything affected by it. I basically drew Gavony Township in time to not lose as I swung him to 1 life, but Kitchen Finks Persisted to gain my 2 life. Then he swung with everything and I blocked the persisted Finks on Gaddock Teeg. He tried to CoCo in response, but … I didn't realize until after he had resolved it ... he has Gaddock Teeg out. He just scooped because he saw the writing on the wall. I did notice quite late though. I gotta be more careful. It's just that I was calculating 2 lines that he would have to have to stay alive and he had both of them, so my mind was a bit flustered. Got there though. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. 4 Color Saheeli. This game was played out long, as I killed 2 Saheelis and a Felidar Guardian with Walking Ballista, but he eventually got Restoration Angel to slow me, then drew a land after a few Lotus Cobras to get the last card in his hand down, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. GGs. I had a million turns to assemble the combo, but couldn't find anything. In the next game, it is similar. I just draw lands after using a Walking Ballista to kill a Felidar Guardian, a Restoration Angel, and 2 Saheelis. I used E Witness TWICE with all of the mana I drew (5 lands, 2 Devoted Druid, and 2 Noble Hierarch). But he got another Felidar Guardian and the next turn, he played Impact Tremors and Eldritch Evolution his Cobra for Restoration Angel to bounce each other for infinite damage after I tapped out for a next turn lethal Gavony activation. I'm assuming he had Impact Tremors in his hand the whole game and drew Eldritch Evolution for the turn since there was a card he just was not playing from the beginning. 0-2.
Round 4 vs. Burn. Kind of upset about the last round, especially since my opponent was playing with some fake cards and although his deck felt like fewer than 60 cards, it was exactly 60 cards. I am at 5 life when my Burn opponent on 2 lands still does Boros Charm to me to put me to 1, but doesn't attack his Goblin Guide into Kitchen Finks. I untap, play Vizier of Remedies and Chord of Calling for Viscera Seer. Poof - infinite life and scrys. In the next game, I just had too much and got there with a 6/6 Scavenging Ooze after trading, then landing 2 Kitchen Finks that got Path to Exiled. I think he needed to Path the Scooze, but honestly I won at 14 life with 2 cards in his hand, so I don't think there were outs. I even had Collected Company and Chord in hand, but there was no reason to react. I could have won on the final turn by playing the Devoted Druid that I had just drawn, then fetched/shocked to 11 life, put counters on the Devoted Druid to put him in the yard, ate him with Scooze, and then activated Gavony Township for exactly 8 life, but instead I just attack him to 2 life with CoCo and Chord up. He draws and scoops. I think that 11 life was safe from 3 cards anyway. Oh well; it didn't hurt to play too safely. 2-0.
I finish 3-1, which isn't too bad. I would have liked to 3-0-1 or 4-0, but my deck would not quite cooperate against Saheeli.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Mulled to 6 every single first game of all 6 matches. Also mulled to 6 a bunch other than that, although to 5 only once. Won 2 of my first 4 die rolls But then lost the last 2. Doesn't matter much; I need cards when I have fewer cards than my opponent.
Round 1 vs. UR Wizards. I mull to 6. He plays Delver and I cannot draw a 4th land. I kept on 3 land and drew 0 lands the whole game, losing on turn 7. I did a Collected Company in response to revealing a Spell Pierce to flip Delver, but it got literally 1 Devoted Druid. Then he Remanded and Snap Remanded Kitchen Finks while I drew Finks after Finks after Finks. He ended up throwing 5 Bolt this game too - 2 Bolt, 2 Wizard's Lightning, and a Burst Lightning. In the next game, he gets me to 2 life with a Delver in play and 2 cards in hand. I play Vizier of Remedies and Chord for Viscera Seer. He doesn't have anything? No way! In the last game, I just get tempoed out by a bunch of Bolts and he finishes me off with the 3rd Lightning Bolt of the game (after 2 Wizard's Lightning, which I couldn't stop by killing 2 Soul-Scar Mage). He got there when I flooded the heck out and CoCo'ed for a Devoted Druid and a BoP. I mean, it's good if I draw Vizier or a way to get Vizier, but without it, it's pretty useless. Ominous way to start a tournament. 1-2.
Round 2 vs. Storm. In game 1, he is on the draw and plays Baral. I get infinite mana and CoCo, then E Witness CoCo gets there. He showed me he had me next turn. Storm is no joke. In the next game, he kept on Serum Visions and 1 land. He missed his 2nd land drop for 2 turns. He showed me he literally had game easily if he drew the 2nd land. That was terrible luck, something that I rarely see from my opponents. 2-0.
Round 3 vs. UW Enchantments. This is just an odd deck. I played around sweepers and Settle because a friend described playing against this Jank deck. I keep paying for 2 Ghostly Prison and crash with Finks with 2 Exalted triggers. It helped that I drew 7 land to go with 2 Noble Hierarchs. I draw the Combo right as I'm about to do lethal, so I swing fo lethal instead. In the next game, I Combo on turn 4 I believe for infinite life and he scoops. I guess he didn't have a way to beat infinite life or didn't want to try. 2-0.
Round 4 vs. Hollow One. He has a normal draw, but the turn before I die. I am able to hit Vizier of Remedies AND Duskwatch Recruiter off Collected Company. That's a first! In the next game, he got stuck on 1 land just like my Storm opponent. He played some 1 drops, but it just wasn't enough for my gassy hand. Bad luck for him. I do not remember a tournament in the past few years where this happened twice against me, but I probably only average playing 3-4 tournaments per week. Maybe that's not enough? 2-0.
Round 5 vs. 8 Whack. I thought I had seen all of the guys who were 3-1 or close to it. I didn't know what he was playing. In game 1, I come off a bit clunky, get my mana dude killed by a Fanatical Firebrand, and then die after doing a Company for a Devoted Druid and a Noble Hierarch. He finished me off on the final turn with the 3rd Lightning Bolt of the game and the 2nd Goblin Grenade. Did you know that a resolved Grenade does 5 damage? Yep. In the next game, I am land a bunch of Kitchen Finks and a Scavenging Ooze after he did a Grenade and 3 Lightning Bolts on my creatures. I got there pretty easily. In the final game, it is close. Another mulligan for me in 6 cards. In fact, I had 6, 5, and 6 this match. Can't keep 1 land hands or 6 land hands. He had triple Goblin Guide and crushed me with them mercilessly after Bolts on BoP and Devoted Druid. This stunted my growth and I got stuck on the original 3 lands and 2 Companies that were revealed with Goblin Guide. On the final turn of lethal when I blocked, but he did 4 damage with teh other 2 GGs and then 3rd Bolt of the game, it revealed 3 lands. Hahahahah. Right on time. I think I had 20 cards in hand when I died. Seismic Assault in play and I can't lose that game. No, I can. 4th Lightning Bolt off the top and Goblin + Grenade. It's that sort of day. I only saw around 4 different cards from him, not counting Mountain or Ramunap Ruins. 1-2.
Round 6 vs. Humans. Game 1, he comes out the gates with Champ and then double Mantis Rider, but I have time. I have 2 Birds of Paradise and some chumpers. I try to find Devoted Druid or Viscera Seer to combo out, but after several turns, I don't find them, even after activating Duskwatch Recruiter 3 times. This game was close as hell, with me at 1 life and him at 1 life when he did lethal. Also there was 22 minutes left on the clock. In the next game, I am under duress again, but scry after a chump a fetchland to the top to fetch for White mana to Vizier of Remedies and combo out with Duskwatch Recruiter. In the final game, I kept a stupid hand. I will admit that I don't know what the **** I was thinking. I was thinking in non competitive ways. I had Abrupt Decay, 3 lands, 2 E Witness, and a Duskwatch Recruiter. I did Abrupt Decay on Gaddock Teeg. That was a big mistake and I kind of felt it. The other mistake was that I could not draw a 4th land...well, not really a mistake. I wish I had an Aether Vial. I could have kept doing that value train of Abrupt Decay or now I drew Maelstrom Pulse and the Witnesses, but I got greedy and played Viscera Seer and Vizier of Remedies. I felt that I was going to be stuck on 3 lands the whole game, which I was, but I could draw a Kitchen Finks and just win. But...he Vialed in Izzet Staticaster and I was wrecked. I lost both of those creatures because of this and had to Abrupt Decay the Izzet Staticaster. I should have just done the value train of removal and forced him to just kill an Eternal Witness with the Staticaster, but he was showing extreme patience. He said it was in his opener, which I'm not sure anyone can have that much patience. But it's possible. I just got wrecked and knocked from top 8 contention. He's in! 1-2.
I finish 3-3 after having 2 win-and-ins. From the look of the standings, two 4-2 players would make it in and as long as I win the final round and don't get passed up in tiebreakers, I'm in. Alas, it was not meant to be. I should certainly have mulliganed the final hand of the night, but most other hands lose as well, oddly enough.
*Looking back at the final game in Round 6 of the win-and-in, I was pretty disappointed at myself. I punted the game, even after the suspect keep. I was a bit on tilt from losing the last round barely to a deck that I should destroy to more than 2 Bolts and 2 Grenades per game in games 1 and 3 on the play for him. But I should have gotten that out of my head completely.
I didn't need to Abrupt Decay the Gaddock Teeg. I even considered not doing so, but I assumed I would draw a single land during this game and maybe Collected Company. I did so way too preemptively for 2 things that never happened. The next thing. I need to get the Champion of the Parish off the board quickly and my mana is taxed (I only had 3 with Horizon Canopy as one of them). I just needed to kill the Champ, and offer a potential block for Teeg with E Witness. I didn't want to play around Izzet Staticaster because #1 he seemed flooded, cracking 2 Horizon Canopy early on with his Vial ticking up to 3 eventually and #2 I felt that I can't beat Izzet Staticaster + Mantis Rider. But, I didn't even play to win vs. JUST Staticaster. Playing the creatures gave him an opening to destroy me and I didn't even have Kitchen Finks in my hand yet (I just thought I may draw Finks or Chord (2 sided out).) If I knew the contents of his hand, I cannot lose this game. I had another E Witness, a drawn Maelstrom Pulse, and some Duskwatch Recruiters in hand. If I stabilize and present pressure (so that Mantis Riders off the top don't just end it), I cannot lose this game, even with 3 lands the whole game. I feel like I really punted here because I assumed that Izzet Staticaster cannot be played and drawn alone - it accompanies Mantis Rider of course, duh! Stupid, stupid. How would you have played it? Would you have played it for a potential Kitchen Finks or Chord (2) if he doesn't have removal (also Reflector Mage is in the discussion)?
**Oddly enough, I believe that 4 of my opponents top 8ed. The guys from Rounds 5 and 6 obviously did because they're win-and-ins. The guy from Round 1 top 8ed. And the opponent from Round 2 on Storm was playing a win-and-in at the table next to me to be the other 4-2 to make it. I don't think it was a sign of strength. The PPTQ was a bit soft, as shown from UW Enchantments and some other things I noticed, but in the end, it was me who made the biggest PUNT in the world.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Discord is a pretty popular text and voice chat program. Many decks that don't have super nailed down lists have one or many discussion "channels", comprising a "server".
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
ensnaring bridge in the sideboard. on the face of it seems to handle a bunch of issues all at once. not a miracle cure but bizarrely good?
we already have a no-combat-step win and empty our hands pretty quickly, so.... perfect fit against aggressive decks?
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I agree with this. I think if you're playing SSG, it should be more like the Eternal Devote (Turbo Vizier) version with Hall of the Bandit Lord. Damn, I would love to try playing that again (only got 5-3 in 2 FNMs), but I kind of am prized into play UW Control since it's insane. I think I'm going to play Knightfall or just straight Bant Company occasionally for a bit with UW Control as my main deck.
On another note, I tried some main board UW Control vs. Abzan Counters and it was 6-6 so far. Not as bad as I'd thought, based on what everyone keeps saying (that we get thrashed).
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)After GRN, my list will be:
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Eternal Witness
1 Rhonas
1 Walking Ballista
4 Chord of Calling
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Gavony Township
4 Windswept Heath
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Path to Exile
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Worship
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Knight of Autumn
2 Eldritch Evolution
Depending on the prevalence of Jund and Jeskai, the low starting toughness of Tireless Tracker may be a liability. Other than that, I am pretty confident about these card choices and I'm happy to discuss any of them.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I don't think trophy is going to be an auto 4 in every GBx deck. maelstrom pulse is just always better when not sniping a land after you hit 3 mana and you aren't resource constrained to play multiple spells a turn. It's the superior top deck later in the game. abrupt decay was already solid as a 2+ of for some metas. The card is also fighting against push, the x splash spells like bolt/path, and the more situational removal collective brutality and splash color spells. Abzan probably will not run 4 path 4 trophy because you do t want to ramp/thin someone that hard. Jund needs better T1-3 answers alongside it. I can see an argument for a 2 main 2 side, but those 2 side are more for tron than this deck.
Trophy is a great card, but I would never waste it on a township unless two turns of activations would give you the game; because I should have several lands that can do it for me anyway. I'd much rather pocket it to keep you off the combo, at which point it's the same as almost any other removal in that slot. Some of the utility creatures for control may come out for more removal, but that was happening anyway after board.
The only deck that trophy should cause concern for is probably tron, because it gives a classic easy matchup game now. Everyone else is going to see the same number of removal pieces in the deck and the same volume of land destruction. GBx is t going to give up the fields/quarters because they need a way to shut down azcanta that the control player can't counter.
Trophy is also much more awkward to cast than it looks. It's dual color, but between it and path decks want more basics anyway. Additionally you can't cast it until t2, and it can ramp your opponent. The ideal time to fire off trophy is actually t4-5 after you've demonstrated you're not bottlenecked on mana. At that point, unless I'm deploying removal + threat or double interactive spell, it's going to be the same as any other removal the majority of the time.
I'm well aware that GBx decks won't be running 4x AssTrophy. However, for the Kitchen Finks version of GWx Vizier, Gavony Township is the primary (and possibly ONLY) win condition against midrange decks. With the rise of land destruction and graveyard hate, Finks/Gavony was becoming tenuous already. Since I expect Assassin's Trophy to be played in some number (probably as a MD 2-of, with extra's in the SB) for all GBx decks, this means my Finks/Gavony win condition is going to be even more at risk than it was before. Hence I'm looking for other sources of card advantage and other sources of big creatures.
Also, moving grind creatures to the maindeck freed up a LOT of sideboard slots!
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Hi, could some copies of ramunap excavator run on mainboard help?
"Yep."
"Why's he spyin' on us?"
"Don't ask."
Last Laplasjan 5-0 with GoR : he switched to GW company.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1368165#paper
+ 2 Knight of Autumn, 4 Knight of the Reliquary, 2 Tireless Tracker maindeck, and some manabase changes for KotR.
Still some black for the side !
Greetings,
B00NTY
Wow that's a lot of significant changes from his old list!
I play Knight of the Reliquary religiously (Laplasjan's list with Kitchen Finks combo is probably my first deck without KotR since its printing 9 years ago) so I feel like I have the authority to declare that Knight of the Reliquary is much better when you have a way to give it trample. Kessig Wolf-Run and a Stomping Grounds is the old standby, but I think we're better off with a Rhonas.
All told, I'd update my list as follows:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
4 Vizier of Remedies
4 Duskwatch Recruiter
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Eternal Witness
1 Rhonas
1 Walking Ballista
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
1 Gavony Township
1 Field of Ruin
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
5 Forest
1 Plains
3 Path to Exile
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Worship
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Knight of Autumn
2 Eldritch Evolution
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Finks didn't help the Burn matchup as much as we'd like anyways, as I learned the hard way, repeatedly Maybe that's why Laplasjan is packing 4x Knight of Autumn in his 75?
As far as cutting down on Duskwatch and Eternal Witness, the logic is sound and adopted by many for good reason.
But my experience says that 4 Duskwatch and 3 Eternal Witness is best simply because maximizes your opportunities to combo. It cuts down on the number of situations where you look sadly at your hand and say "if only I had ____".
Also, on the subject of drawing more of a card than you need, Duskwatch Recruiters is one of the best for that, as they make EXCELLENT removal bait. Failure to kill an early Duskwatch allows you to punish them by loading up on creatures by activating him or punish by flipping him and dumping your hand into play for cheap. If they chose to kill it, that's one less removal spell pointed at your Devoted Druid or Tireless Tracker.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
I really liked this card, and as soon as i grab some i’m gonna test one md and at least 2 sb
Again !
5-0, same list!